iPhone 1.1.1 Aftermath

[trukurt]

Take A Chill Pill

How many users actually WANT to hack their iPhone? I'm pretty geeked, but I have NO desire to spend my time hacking my phone so it will play some stupid game. I've got a desktop and laptop that are crammed with apps. Why would I want to spend time working spreadsheets or large graphic files on my phone? Get real folks. And while I'm at it, I could give a damn about custome ring tones. I mean REALLY!!! Who cares!? Some of this stuff is just plain silly. I absolutely love my iPhone, and I know that Apple will continually make the best communication device ever invented even BETTER. A bunch of you better take a chill pill.

 

[DMann]

3rd Party Apps

Most people aren't complaining about bricking their iPhone. Many of the complaints are about Apple closing off their system to 3rd party apps etc...

arn

I chose NOT to update to 1.1.1, not out of concern that I might brick the device -- I'm staying with 1.0.2 so that I can continue to use 3rd party apps, which have increased the usefulness of the iPhone ten-fold. Let's hope that 1.1.1 can be worked around soon, so that developers have an incentive to continue. Apple's role of playing Good Cop/Bad Cop for AT&T seems to be the motivating factor behind the 3rd app lock-out. (Skype, VOIP, etc.) Time and persistence are on our side, however, and a workaround is bound to surface soon.

 

[wizard]

Over reacting -- NO

I still believe that users are overreacting to the closed status of the iPhone.

Nope can't support you here one bit. People have a right to express themselves and to point out what is a very disgusting & deplorable move on Apples part.

You aren't buying an external hard drive! Plus, Apple is most likely legally protecting their relationship with AT&T by proving that the SIM card can't be replaced in a simple way.

Frankly I don't give two hoots about their relationship with AT&T.

In the long run, the iPhone will probably have many of the boundaries soften, maybe even with multiple carrier options. Heck, maybe with the release of Leopard, Apple may even have some tricks up their sleeve in order to begin to open up more ability for the installation of 3rd party apps and widgets...could it be that they just want to let Leopard get out there for a bit?

So you want to do business with a company that is constantly jerking your chain? You know let it out a bit then snap, jerk that gullible customer by the chain and keep him in a constant state of bewilderment.

But does every developer and tech user have to call Apple out on each move? I mean, the iPhone has only been out for about 4 months.

You are damn right we need to call Apple out on this. The potential for this device is huge but it needs to be able to adapt easily to a specific users need. That involves loading software on to the device.

Dave

 

[colinmack]

Peace.
(Although the undercurrent of this entire thread is that Apple DID do this intentionally.)
But the reason I'm spending this lovely Autumn day at my keyboard rather than in the Fall air is this...
I tuned into Leo Laporte's show on KGO in SF today. Leo has been doing the tech guru of the airways schtick for decades now and he holds sway with a lot of consumers.
So what do I hear today but a full-segment frothing-at-the-mouth tirade about Apple INTENTIONALLY bricking what (if you didn't know the back-story) sounded like EVERYONE's iPhone!
So I'm just pissed that the kind of vitriol being spewed by not just the normal trolls, but by people who need to get a grip (one forum member refers to this as somehow threatening his very life!).

Fair enough, and sorry if I came off the wrong way (not sure if I'm one of the frothing-at-the-mouth vitriols?), but if so let me clarify:

I'm not accusing Apple of intentionally breaking everyone's phones, but I do think there is an arguable difference between closing security holes and re-locking unlocked phones with a software update, and bricking a consumer item that someone legitimately purchased and legally unlocked, to the extent that it is rendered inoperable.

To me, this is interesting more as a legal debate, not as a tirade...

 

[GQB]

I chose NOT to update to 1.1.1, not out of concern that I might brick the device -- I'm staying with 1.0.2 so that I can continue to use 3rd party apps, which have increased the usefulness of the iPhone ten-fold. Let's hope that 1.1.1 can be worked around soon, so that developers have an incentive to continue. Apple's role of playing Good Cop/Bad Cop for AT&T seems to be the motivating factor behind the 3rd app lock-out. (Skype, VOIP, etc.) Time and persistence are on our side, however, and a workaround is bound to surface soon.

Ten-fold!?
I've GOT to see the apps you're running. One of them a transporter?

 

[chr1s60]

Call me shortsighted, but I do not understand the economical reason behind locking a device.

What difference does it make to Apple?

It's not like they are trying to push their OWN software (not yet at least)

Someone explain; there has GOT to be a reason.

Two economical reasons. 1. It leaves open the possibility to release their own software at a later date. 2. They make money from AT&T for being exclusive with them.

 

[Stella]

Given the revenue from ringtones world wide, it seems a lot of people actually give a damn and want custom ring tones!!!

Its not a case of spreadsheets and graphics editing on your phone, there's a lot of smaller and very very useful applications on open smartphone platforms that enrich user experience - should they wish so. Those that don't care about 3rd party apps have the option of not installing these in the first place.

Small games are also great on phones, passing the time whilst on a bus, subway, plane etc.

Those people who are saying 'so what' about 3rd party applications probably havn't used smartphones to their full extent (read: ignorant ). Of course, there will be others who aren't ignorant and genuinely aren't interested.

How many users actually WANT to hack their iPhone? I'm pretty geeked, but I have NO desire to spend my time hacking my phone so it will play some stupid game. I've got a desktop and laptop that are crammed with apps. Why would I want to spend time working spreadsheets or large graphic files on my phone? Get real folks. And while I'm at it, I could give a damn about custome ring tones. I mean REALLY!!! Who cares!? Some of this stuff is just plain silly. I absolutely love my iPhone, and I know that Apple will continually make the best communication device ever invented even BETTER. A bunch of you better take a chill pill.

 

[megfilmworks]

Agree - although that's the fuzzy part for me though. My interpretation would be that Apple can legally lock it, fix software loopholes and re-lock it as often as they want...and the consumer can then legally unlock it as often as they want, and nobody is stepping over the line.

But to intentionally brick it solely because it was legally unlocked (as opposed to just fixing the hole and re-locking it), is I think where the difference lies. If someone felt like making a legal case out of it, they would need to prove that the bricking was intentional, and Apple could counter-argue that it was simply an unintended side effect of their perfectly harmless update.

That's where I *think* the potential problem lies.

I agree with you. IMHO, Apple in no way intentionally bricked phones by plugging up holes and using encryption. If a non hacked phone gets bricked and they fail to support it, then that is a horse of a different color. I would love to see apps on the phone, but they better be by Apple or an approved 3rd party. No bloatware or malware by hobbyists!

 

[wizard]

How many users actually WANT to hack their iPhone? I'm pretty geeked, but I have NO desire to spend my time hacking my phone so it will play some stupid game.

First off one can hardly call loading apps onto a computer hacking a iPhone. The iPHone is a computer there is no way to get around that. Everything about the device tell you that it is a computer that is also a cell phone.

I've got a desktop and laptop that are crammed with apps. Why would I want to spend time working spreadsheets or large graphic files on my phone?

Well because some of us simply don't need or want a laptop at this point in time. The reality is that the iPhone with a bit of applications flexibility would solve a good deal of all of my portable computing needs. For the technical I have a laptop supplied by work and frankly I have little desire to carry one for any other reason. E-Mail, web and other internet technologies are becoming more and more important as time goes by. The iPhone had the potential to solve most of those internet related things very well. Now Apple has in effect bricked the unit as far as advanced usage goes.

Get real folks. And while I'm at it, I could give a damn about custome ring tones. I mean REALLY!!! Who cares!? Some of this stuff is just plain silly.

Frankly I don't give two hoots either with respect to ring tones. It is something that I'd like to see disappear from the planet myself.

I absolutely love my iPhone, and I know that Apple will continually make the best communication device ever invented even BETTER.

That is not likely to happen anytime soon. The problem is that Apple went and mad ethe unit worst not better. This update is very much a regression.

A bunch of you better take a chill pill.

Some people need to think long and hard about what they are defending.

Dave

 

[X38]

It is you're right....it's also Apple's right to deny you software updates as well....

You apologists just don't seem to get it so let me make it simple for you.

It doesn't matter what you think. It doesn't matter what I think. It doesn't matter what Ambrosia, Nullriver, et. al. think. It doesn't matter what Apple and AT&T think. It doesn't matter what the courts think. It doesn't even really matter what the press thinks.
The only thing that matters in the end is what the marketplace thinks. And right now the cell phone marketplace is on the verge of thinking "don't trust that new kid on the block who seemed really cool at first".

The iPhone was one of the biggest leaps in consumer products in a long time and arguably got the most free positive press of any new product ever. Apple even made a remarkable (and possibly unnecessary) recovery on the price drop thing that bought themselves invaluable good will with potential customers. Apple had all the ingredients for a success of historic proportions. This weekend they are on the verge of destroying it all by loosing the trust of the marketplace through their own myopic and arrogant actions on a measly point update.

In order to keep from turning a potential historic success into a disaster of epic proportions, Apple needs to call the independent developer folks immediately and give them the passwords, codes, or whatever it is those folks need to get their stuff working with 1.1.1. If they don't, all us current iPhone owners will have to settle for the curiosity value of our soon to be orphaned niche devices. Might as well call it Son of Newton.

 

[megfilmworks]

Re: The iPhone being 10x better with third party apps

Ten-fold!?
I've GOT to see the apps you're running. One of them a transporter?

LOL
Glad to see that a sense of humor can exist in a heated discussion.

 

[minik]

Nothing wrong to me regarding to the iPhone lockdown.

 

[russellb]

Forget the mickey mouse 3rd party apps. I want a secure, reliable iPhone, with 3rd party apps approved by and/or developed by Apple. No hobbyists need apply!

But I think thats the point. A lot of people would most likely agree that they want a secure reliable phone but Apple should be out in the front leading approved, stable, secure, 3rd party apps.

Apple should have it's own approved version of an installer app on the phone.

Come on if the open developer community can come up with a great installer / uninstaller you can't tell me apple can't do the same.

Apple already have itunes that could manage 3rd party app purchase and they already have the WiFi Itunes store, a ready made way to purchase apps from the Iphone for the Iphone.

Apple are simply dropping the ball here. They could have a killer phone, a killer 3rd party development community and a product that could wipe the competition off the face of the planet.

Instead they have a revolutionary product that COULD possibly compete with the competition but at the moment they are tying the Iphones hands behind it's back and holding it back. They are allowing their competitors to catch up draw customers away because of the Iphones shortcomings.

get you act together Apple !!

 

[megfilmworks]

I chose NOT to update to 1.1.1, not out of concern that I might brick the device -- I'm staying with 1.0.2 so that I can continue to use 3rd party apps, which have increased the usefulness of the iPhone ten-fold.

Now I see, you're the tenfold guy.
Hope waiting for more malware is worth it because the update has my iPhones running very smoothly and fast. The fixes have really smoothed things out. The earpiece level alone is worth dumping the apps for. I ran apps and loaded ringtones, changed my home screen around the first 2 months. No more. It was a mess.
Been there, Done that. I'll wait for the real thing so my phone will run at top speed with less glitches.

 

[kzin]

I think there's an elephant in the room.

Why would Apple so intentionally cripple both the iPod-Touch and the iPhone, such that neither is a full PDA, but just gives you a hint of PDA potential? Why does the 'Touch not have the big storage capacity of the Classic, basically meaning that the touch is a second tier (nano class) iPod, and not a high end iPod?

When you look at all of the things that Apple easily could, and should, have done with these two products ... it leaves this hole in their market offerings. This Newton 2 shaped hole.


Why no 3rd party apps like a real PDA phone? because the iPone is NOT Apple's PDA plan.

Why no 80 or 160 GB 'Touch? Because the 'Touch is also not Apple's PDA plan.

Why a severely reduced set of apps on the 'Touch, compared to even the iPhone? Because the 'Touch is not Apple's PDA plan.

Why no support for bluetooth HID or DUN roles (HID = keyboard support, DUN = "phone as modem" support)?

Why no open SDK for either, like every other PDA that isn't just a throw-away 'electronnic organizer'?

Because these two products are NOT Apple's Smartphone/PDA offering. When you compare their features, expandability, and non-subsidized cost to other mid-range phones, it makes a lot more sense.

And then the choices make more sense as well. Adding those features to the iPphone or iPod-Touch, or allowing the features to be hacked in to them, will cannibalize the intended market for their actual PDA product line. This isn't just satisfying AT&T, this is protecting the market for the Newton II.

Which leads me to expect that the N2 will have those missing pieces. Third party apps, Classic size storage, full SDK, bluetooth HID support, etc. And hopefully, not much bigger than the 'Touch or iPhone. And I expect to see the N2 have both a phone version and a non-phone version.

That will be Apple's entry in to the smartphone market ... it's the only way the whole crippling makes sense.

 

[irun5k]

See, that's where we disagree. I don't agree at all that an sdk is a good idea. Do you have any idea of the size of a team it takes to build and maintain an sdk? And Apple should do that why? So that it can turn into MS Vista, which even today has to program around its Registry and SDK contracts that must now be obeyed in perpetuity in order to not break legacy apps?

I'm not sure you mean the same thing as everyone else when you say "SDK." Apple already has an API that they they used to develop the existing 12 or 13 apps that are currently on the phone. To me (FWIW I'm a software engineer), the SDK begins with this internal API. Next, they'd give some further thought as to which classes and functions should be public. Finally they would wrap things up with some documentation about the API, which probably already exists but needs to be polished. The would also provide some standard way to install apps that are written. And that is about it. The hard part is already done.

In my experience as an engineer, whenever I've had to tighten up an API and turn it into a public SDK as mentioned above, it has increased the productivity of internal development as well. By this, I mean that Apple could probably develop their own apps for the phone quicker as well.

 

[GQB]

right now the cell phone marketplace is on the verge of thinking "don't trust that new kid on the block who seemed really cool at first".

Well, I'll agree that to the degree that main-stream news echoes the hysterics found on forums, that impression could very well take hold.

But any user in the target demographic (wants to make calls easily, use visual voice mail, and have a camera/media player that actually works for a change) is not going to be phased by the fact that
1) a few hardcore power users who wanted to jump the gun on features that will be along soon enough (Apple is not, believe it or not, stupid), or
2) Suduku junkies
can't get their features RIGHT NOW!!!! (stomp footsies for emphasis.)

Gee AAPL over $150 despite this and the 'catastrophic' price cut. Go figure.

 

[wizard]

AFAIK, Apple is not legally bound to ensure that software updates are compatible with an OS that has been modified without Apple's advice, assistance or consent. Various laws require that a wireless provider unlock a cell phone on request by a consumer, but they do not make a provider responsible for damage caused by a third party.

In this case the damage is being done by Apple.

It was actually the mods that bricked the affected iPhones.

This is so wrong that I have to wonder if you are on Apples payroll. I don't know of one App that has bricked an iPhone. The only thing we have on record is that Apples update has bricked iPhones.

Prior to the update, the modded iPhones were simply ticking time bombs.

This is total garbage. iPhones with third party apps are running perfectly fine today simply because the owners have avoid Apples update. apps do not equal bombs.

Now if Apple unlocked the phones and then subsequently bricked them, then it would be liable.

I have to disagree here. It is pretty hard to imagine a programming group so incompetent, at apple, that these bricks would result due to an upgrade.

Of course the easy way to resolve what is going on here would be to get Apples source code to the installer / updater. Personally I think Apple would pay big time to keep from having to release that info.

Dave

 

[DMann]

3rd Party Apps

How many users actually WANT to hack their iPhone? I'm pretty geeked, but I have NO desire to spend my time hacking my phone so it will play some stupid game. I've got a desktop and laptop that are crammed with apps. Why would I want to spend time working spreadsheets or large graphic files on my phone? Get real folks. And while I'm at it, I could give a damn about custome ring tones. I mean REALLY!!! Who cares!? Some of this stuff is just plain silly. I absolutely love my iPhone, and I know that Apple will continually make the best communication device ever invented even BETTER. A bunch of you better take a chill pill.

True, but some 3rd party apps are actually great, and do not interfere with the responsiveness of the OS. ToDoList, for instance, is highly functional, much more than Notes, VoiceRecorderNotes is very useful, TextEdit is great for composing and viewing documents, Books is a wonderful eBook file reader, WeDict is great for accessing references such as multiple dictionaries, thesauruses, encyclopedias, iFlashCards is a helpful tool for studying, and SummerBoard is an excellent interface organizer for the home screen, allowing the user to streamline the UI - one can remove the names of the apps, clear the bottom row, and to scroll to reveal the 3rd party apps. Some of them may be silly, but Sketches has turned out to be a useful drawing app for design, etc. If 3rd party apps function as an indirect motivator for Apple to develop more for the iPhone, all the better. Where would iTunes be today without the design of Robbin and Kincaid's SoundJam App?

 

[russellb]

The only thing that matters in the end is what the marketplace thinks. And right now the cell phone marketplace is on the verge of thinking "don't trust that new kid on the block who seemed really cool at first".

If they don't, all us current iPhone owners will have to settle for the curiosity value of our soon to be orphaned niche devices. Might as well call it Son of Newton.

Well said.

The Iphone as great as it is could just as easily drift into obscurity as did the Newton if the wider marketplace does not continue to adopt it. It could just be a quick fad soon to be gone as people work out it won't do what they need.

The average punter does not want to have to risk stuffing their phone with non approved workarounds.

The average punter wants a legitimate way to install 3rd party apps

The average punter WILL NOT bother with the Iphone if it does not let them do what they need.

Hell my wife would only buy an Ipone if I assured her it could be unlocked to play Sudoko AND shut up Apple .. we do not want to have to run all our apps while connected to the internet via Safari.

She used to use her Windows Mobile PDA to run medical apps and wants to know when she will be able to do the same with the Iphone

Multiply that times each person , each business , each professional who needs to run apps on the machine and NOT over the internet. There goes your market Apple down the toilet if you wont allow developers to give people what they want.

I can understand if Apple are running a bit behind in getting their act together and getting an SDK out. BUT they should come out publicly and clearly state that they WILL release an SDK with a timeline.

They should publicly support and applaud all their 3rd party developers. Hell look at their Intel transition , without 3rd party developers it would have failed. Why is the Iphone any different ?

 

[Stella]

Originally Posted by megfilmworks
Forget the mickey mouse 3rd party apps. I want a secure, reliable iPhone, with 3rd party apps approved by and/or developed by Apple. No hobbyists need apply!

Its easy - if you don't want 3rd party apps - then don't install them. But, don't stop others.

HOWEVER, like hobbyist applications on OSX and other smartphone platforms - such applications can be very good in both of functionality and quality. You are being derogatory.

 

[winterspan]

Apple Lockdown

Mm, hm. Good article. I also recommend searching the Internet for IMEI code "004999010640000". It would seem that the iPhone doesn't exactly mark the first appearance of this number.
http://gsmhosting.com/vbb/archive/index.php/t-223129.html

Also, regarding unlocking, a lot of people might find this article very illuminating:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,235602,00.html
I've thrown in the towel. I doubt the average user even knows there's much of a difference between the two things. Moreover, 3rd party app hacking is the first step to unlocking, unfortunately. They're very intimately tied, and I'm at a loss to attempt to differentiate the two for people when public tech industry commentators like Leo Leporte freely switch between the two concepts when discussing the topic.

~ CB

Although many people do not understand the difference between the two,
uploading and running third party applications has NOTHING to do with unlocking the phone (modifying the baseband firmware).

I have not torn into the iPhone, but for all the material I have read, Apple COULD easily digitally encrypt and sign the part of the baseband firmware that controls the "AT&T lock" of the phone, but allow third party applications to be located and function in the normal file system.

Whether it was intentional or not to steam roll over the third party apps in the last update (anyone know the answer?), they COULD have limited/focused the encryption and other lock down methods to the "AT&T lock".

 

[megfilmworks]

Originally Posted by megfilmworks
Forget the mickey mouse 3rd party apps. I want a secure, reliable iPhone, with 3rd party apps approved by and/or developed by Apple. No hobbyists need apply!

Its easy - if you don't want 3rd party apps - then don't install them. But, don't stop others.

HOWEVER, like hobbyist applications on OSX and other smartphone platforms - such applications can be very good in both of functionality and quality. You are being derogatory.

You're right I am being derogatory, for effect. I'm sure there are some good 3rd party apps and super smart developers out there. I liked some of the apps. I have no problem with people loading them, just with their ranting and blaming the manufacturer for there own science experiment. The phone needs to be secure. That is the most important issue. I have stored passwords etc. I want security and that may stop the unapproved and unsupported hard work of others.

 

[tekcor]

iPhone Pro

That will be Apple's entry in to the smartphone market ... it's the only way the whole crippling makes sense.

Back in November before the official iPhone announcement, I heard information from a friend inside Apple. He said that the iPhone was going to be announced in January - which was true. He also told me that the first model was a more restricted, kind of "Light" model. The "real" or more smartphone-like model was coming later and would co-exist. So far, after reading this and the newton 2 rumors, and his previous record of being right (he told me about 802.11n and the 24-inch iMac as well) - I think this is what is really going on here.

iPhone Pro.

 

[winterspan]

Wrong! How would they force anyone to update?

Apple's statement that they aren't actively locking down hackers is still very true. If they were, all iPhone users would be forced to update. The update is still of course optional.

That is absolutely incorrect. How would the "force" anyone to update? Disable all the GSM serial numbers on AT&Ts network? yea... talk about a lawsuit

The truth is they did "actively lockdown" hackers by encrypting and digitally signing the new firmware. Its like replacing a wooden front door and deadbolt with six feet of steel-reinforced concrete.