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iPhone 13 Pro iPhone 13 Pro: Screen PWM flicker at ALL brightness
- Thread starter changguangyu
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I guess it's really different for everybody.
I've had my iPhone 13 Pro Max for a week. It's driving my eyes insane and causing slight headaches. On my old Xs Max, I'm not having this problem. (unless I just go so used to it after a year)
I actually spoke about this sensitivity issue with my ophthalmologist doctor a few months ago. She told me that she had seen this in some of her patients. Prior to starting her practice, she was the ophthalmologist at an air force base hospital for 10 years.... apparently the problem sometimes bothered pilots who had to stare at onboard instruments.(but I assume for hours at a time?)
I'm going to give my 13 Pro Max another 2 or 3 days and if I can't get used to, I guess it's going back to Apple. (which is sad, because I'm really impressed by the phone)
Edit: ended up returning the 13 Pro Max today...
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I don't find PWM to be an issue both on my 12 Pro Max and 13 Pro Max. I manually adjust display brightness depending on situational ambient light levels wherever I am balancing visibility/legibility and eye strain.
Great post!
My experience as well, lighteadiness and after looking at 13 Pro due to it’s high modulation probably, very pleasant to look at 12 Pro above 30% brightness and with Reduce White Point at 100% and Accesibility -> Zoom -> On and Zoom Filter on Low Light dims the screen incredibly
If useful for anyone elseMy question is what other phones have Modulation around or under 20% that you know of or can test? Looking for a nice screen for myself
Also is it possible to calculate Modulation % only by looking at Notebookcheck PWM graph of one of other phones?
I would also appreciate if you could measure Mudulation % on 12 Pro with Brightness on 40% and Reduce White Point on 80% and 100%, and at the end with that Zoom filter enabled and Reduce White Point at 100%, I hope Modulation % stays the same!
Thanks again!
I am very curious about the new miniLED screens of the MacBook Pros. They are basically the same as the iPad Pro 12,9 2021 and those screens flickers at around 19190 Hz.
Should be better than the OLED iPhones right?
Should be better than the OLED iPhones right?
NotebookCheck found the PWM frequency to be 510.2 for the iPhone 13 Pro/Pro Max.
Apple iPhone 13 Pro Review - Bombastic smartphone with minor weaknesses
The Apple iPhone 13 Pro impressed in our review, thanks to the new A15 Bionic, 6 GB of RAM, lots of storage, superb battery life, and a strong triple-camera system.
EDIT: The above link is for the iPhone 13 Pro. It has a PWM of 510.2 Hz. The link below is for the iPhone 13 Pro Max. It has a PWM of 238 Hz. Why would Apple use different PWM for the various iPhone 13 models?
Apple iPhone 13 Pro Max smartphone review – Powerful, large, and full of features
Review of the iPhone 13 Pro Max from Apple. The largest iPhone comes to us with a 120-Hz ProMotion display. Will the largest Apple iPhone 2021 be one of the best smartphones again? We take a detailed look in our extensive test.
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But good for you putting your well-being before gadgets. I’ve been fighting this fight since OLED iPhones, so I, like many of us on here, feel your pain and disappointment.I guess it's really different for everybody.
I've had my iPhone 13 Pro Max for a week. It's driving my eyes insane and causing slight headaches. On my old Xs Max, I'm not having this problem. (unless I just go so used to it after a year)
I actually spoke about this sensitivity issue with my ophthalmologist doctor a few months ago. She told me that she had seen this in some of her patients. Prior to starting her practice, she was the ophthalmologist at an air force base hospital for 10 years.... apparently the problem sometimes bothered pilots who had to stare at onboard instruments.(but I assume for hours at a time?)
I'm going to give my 13 Pro Max another 2 or 3 days and if I can't get used to, I guess it's going back to Apple. (which is sad, because I'm really impressed by the phone)
Edit: ended up returning the 13 Pro Max today...
now I'm just confused.... because after I returned the 13 Pro Max, I ordered the 13 Mini. I haven't had any problems staring at the 13 Mini's screen for the last 2 weeks. (no eye strain or headaches) I wonder if it's because the smaller screen is the reason? Or perhaps the lack of 120Hz?
Definitely confusing. But nice that the phone in your hand isn’t bothering you.
Absolutely not true…unfortunately. Having had the 13 and the 13Pro for a week, I can definitely say the PWM in these ones is more noticeable than in previous generations. I never really had a problem with PWM in iPhones, but this time around I could see it more than I liked to admit. It can undoubtably put a strain on your eyes even after a few hours of usage.
And by the way, the 12 series have the best panels in terms of PWM in any iphone, yet. As you can also see in the short clip above, and others online, the difference is pretty obvious…even if you may not notice it immeditely having the phones in your hands.
The 13’s will surely give you a pretty positive initial impression, as their panels seem to be slightly brighter than the 12’s. But I did not expect a downgrade in the viewing experience. Mostly now when we finally got a higher refresh rate in the Pro’s.
It is quite unfortunate, as the 13’s are really great phones otherwise. And as much as I wanted to keep them, or rather convince myself that I should, I eventually returned them and went back to my 12’s (Mini and Pro Max).
In case you got any of the 13’s, don’t feel unlucky though, but I would suggest thinking more about the health of your eyes and maybe take longer breaks when using these last iPhones. The better option, in case you can, would be to wait for next September. 🙂
All the best!
Cheers!
they will eventually use their mini led or micro-led tech to Iphone which in current iPad pro (MacBook)
Some interesting info regarding the differences between the 12PM and 13PM
https://iphonewired.com/common-problems/241968/
"Many netizens on the Internet have also responded that after switching to an iPhone 13, the screen is more likely to cause eye fatigue or soreness than the iPhone 12 or the old iPhone for a long time. Why? First understand the screen dimming frequency of two iPhone models:
iPhone 13 Pro / Max to PWM dimming frequency is 480Hz
The PWM dimming frequency of iPhone 12 Pro/Max is 240Hz
In principle, the higher the dimming frequency, the more comfortable the eyes will look, right? This was tested by Navis-MDT using professional instruments. At the same time, he also shared the comparison of the screen brightness waveforms of iPhone 13 Pro Max and iPhone 12 Pro Max. The results of each different brightness data are summarized as follows:
High brightness: The “DC-like dimming” waveform of the iPhone 12 Pro Max is very stable, and the screen flickering is almost invisible. On the contrary, the iPhone 13 Pro Max uses global PWM dimming, with little fluctuation in the waveform, high duty cycle, and The flicker is small, and the stroboscopic problem can be basically ignored.
40% brightness: iPhone 12 Pro Max also relies on high-brightness DC dimming, the waveform is still stable, and you will not feel too obvious stroboscopic problems. On the contrary, iPhone 13 Pro Max starts to have obvious stroboscopic fluctuations.
19% brightness: iPhone 12 Pro Max switched from DC-like dimming mode to low-frequency PWM dimming 240Hz mode, the waveform also began to show obvious flicker; iPhone 13 Pro Max began to lose control, and severe flicker appeared early.
Lowest brightness (under no light source environment): The iPhone 12 Pro Max’s waveform is actually smoother than that of the iPhone 13 Pro Max, and the iPhone 13 Pro Max starts to appear obvious momentary bumps, which also makes the screen flicker index more obvious changes.
From the above results, the PWM dimming of the iPhone 13 Pro Max is not as good as that of the iPhone 12 Pro Max. Instead, it is confirmed that the screen of the iPhone 13 Pro Max becomes darker in the dark environment."
https://iphonewired.com/common-problems/241968/
"Many netizens on the Internet have also responded that after switching to an iPhone 13, the screen is more likely to cause eye fatigue or soreness than the iPhone 12 or the old iPhone for a long time. Why? First understand the screen dimming frequency of two iPhone models:
iPhone 13 Pro / Max to PWM dimming frequency is 480Hz
The PWM dimming frequency of iPhone 12 Pro/Max is 240Hz
In principle, the higher the dimming frequency, the more comfortable the eyes will look, right? This was tested by Navis-MDT using professional instruments. At the same time, he also shared the comparison of the screen brightness waveforms of iPhone 13 Pro Max and iPhone 12 Pro Max. The results of each different brightness data are summarized as follows:
High brightness: The “DC-like dimming” waveform of the iPhone 12 Pro Max is very stable, and the screen flickering is almost invisible. On the contrary, the iPhone 13 Pro Max uses global PWM dimming, with little fluctuation in the waveform, high duty cycle, and The flicker is small, and the stroboscopic problem can be basically ignored.
40% brightness: iPhone 12 Pro Max also relies on high-brightness DC dimming, the waveform is still stable, and you will not feel too obvious stroboscopic problems. On the contrary, iPhone 13 Pro Max starts to have obvious stroboscopic fluctuations.
19% brightness: iPhone 12 Pro Max switched from DC-like dimming mode to low-frequency PWM dimming 240Hz mode, the waveform also began to show obvious flicker; iPhone 13 Pro Max began to lose control, and severe flicker appeared early.
Lowest brightness (under no light source environment): The iPhone 12 Pro Max’s waveform is actually smoother than that of the iPhone 13 Pro Max, and the iPhone 13 Pro Max starts to appear obvious momentary bumps, which also makes the screen flicker index more obvious changes.
From the above results, the PWM dimming of the iPhone 13 Pro Max is not as good as that of the iPhone 12 Pro Max. Instead, it is confirmed that the screen of the iPhone 13 Pro Max becomes darker in the dark environment."
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Wow. Thank you for finding and sharing this information. Well I guess it explains what happened to me going from 12 Pro Max (and maybe also the 12 mini) to 13 Pro. 13 Pro was such a huge disaster for me that I’ve entirely lost interest in reading iPhone 14 news and rumors. I’ve been very comfortable and happy with iPhone 11 and my XR for backup.
I believe they do. I could not at all use the iPhone SE2 comfortably. But I’m good on iPhone XR and iPhone 11.
Interesting. Doesn't the SE2 have the same internals as the 11? I thought I saw a post from someone that said the XR worked for them, but not the 11.
The only way to find out if a particular iPhone is going to bother you is to buy it and use it extensively for at least a week. Some people can use one model while others can’t.