iPhone 4 Signal Issue Can Be Fixed With a Software Update?

[sishaw]

I spent the night in my lab and did some research. I now think I understand the problem better than Apple. The problem has nothing to do with antennas, capacitance and signal attenuation. It is all about karma contamination.

Those who are having trouble with their iPhone 4 tend to be those who have contaminated themselves by watching Flash video and playing Flash games. Many of these games and video's were played and watched on Microsoft operating systems.

If you wish to prevent the signal loss, do not use Microsoft operating systems, install Flash blocker on all your computers and delete every Droid phone number from your phone book.

Ha ha, I almost believe it.

 

[SteveOutOfJobs]

Stop whining and get a grip.

I was on the phone when I followed your advice and my brand new iPhone 4 dropped the call immediately.

 

[ChrisNM]

Or perhaps the fish has a disability?

Are you stupid? The man builds railroads. Railroads are much bigger than cellphones. If you can build railroads you can build cellphones. Have you ever even travelled on a train? It's fantastic.

My Bad!

 

[bawbag]

I'm sure there is some real problem. But most of what I see is about number of bars. I don't see as much reporting of lost calls. I've seen some for sure. But my point is that the number of people currently not able to make calls over this issue is far less than the number of people complaining about their bars. This is of course because of location.

My point being that there are many people who, because of their location, probably wouldn't notice anything if it weren't so publicized. They would install the updates or do the recall and never have been actually affected by it. I'm not dismissing the problem.

Yeah - that's an interesting point regarding the number of dropped calls. There were suspicions that Apple would also use the 4.0.1 update as an opportune moment to change the manner or cut-off point in which the iPhone 4 determines when or if a call should be dropped.

I hope a comparison is done (pre and post-update) of the number of dropped calls i.e. number of bars showing may be less, but phone less likely to drop a connection?

 

[littledigger]

I was on the phone when I followed your advice and my brand new iPhone 4 dropped the call immediately.

Then its faulty. return it.

 

[RalfTheDog]

I was on the phone when I followed your advice and my brand new iPhone 4 dropped the call immediately.

I will give you credit for that one, quite funny!

 

[tomccabe]

Wow, you really are thick. I never said you claimed to be an expert

Probably a wise move since I didn't.

you just assumed it was your civic duty to challenge everyone else on their expertise and qualifications.

When people are making unfounded "expert" claims I really see only one difference between calling them out and making them in the first place: I'm the one who's right. These people have no business and no qualifications to make such statements. If they did they would have defended themselves with facts (or presented them instead of the infantile content of their posts) instead of having you follow me around the forum.

elitist attitude.

I can assure you it's justified.

 

[RalfTheDog]

Are you stupid? The man builds railroads. Railroads are much bigger than cellphones. If you can build railroads you can build cellphones. Have you ever even travelled on a train? It's fantastic.

It is his fault! Last time I went to NYC, I arrived at Baltimore for a bit of business, then caught the train into NYC. I was looking forward to arriving at Grand Central Station. Unfortunately, due to this jerk, Amtrak no longer uses GCS. Pen Station was quite nice, but it is not the same.

 

[tomccabe]

I'm sure there is some real problem. But most of what I see is about number of bars. I don't see as much reporting of lost calls. I've seen some for sure. But my point is that the number of people currently not able to make calls over this issue is far less than the number of people complaining about their bars. This is of course because of location.

My point being that there are many people who, because of their location, probably wouldn't notice anything if it weren't so publicized. They would install the updates or do the recall and never have been actually affected by it. I'm not dismissing the problem.

While I agree with much of this, the issue is *very* real for some users apparently and certainly I would be equally upset if it were me. It's a disservice to those affected to say it's mostly psychological.

 

[littledigger]

While I agree with much of this, the issue is *very* real for some users apparently and certainly I would be equally upset if it were me. It's a disservice to those affected to say it's mostly psychological.

Absolutely agreed.

Why don't people simply return their phones if they are not happy instead of holding on to them but moaning about it? I just don't get it.

 

[tomccabe]

I just want to take the opportunity to thank all the iPhone 4 beta testers (that's you, average consumers and apple zealots) for helping Apple figure out all the bugs with this new phone before I have the chance to buy it.

Though I'd love for my 3GS to have Facetime and a really cool Retina Display, I'm glad my phone works properly.

That being said, I'm curious as to what the final fix to all this nonsense will be.

Sent from my MBP using my fingers

Mine does too! I've really enjoyed the retina display (unreal!) and the overall speed of the phone. Thanks for not taking up space in the queue so I was able to get do much enjoyment out of my phone for the last few weeks. Beats the hell out of my other 3 iPhones!

 

[MacHiavelli]

Another iPhone 4 Flaw Identified - http://tinyurl.com/33wnwfm

 

[littledigger]

Mine does too! I've really enjoyed the retina display (unreal!) and the overall speed of the phone. Thanks for not taking up space in the queue so I was able to get do much enjoyment out of my phone for the last few weeks. Beats the hell out of my other 3 iPhones!

Thanks tomccabe for calming me down and making me appreciate the little things.

 

[Gasu E.]

So, does this mean that they have been trying to solve the problem for years, more than one generation, and still haven't figured it out? I figured apple could pool the talent to solve something as important as the connection to the "mobile device" since they are supposedly the industry leader in mobile computers. I don't doubt that the problem will get better after some time looking into though. ??What are they doing with all that money??? It's like ATT saying they don't have the resources to build out their network.

No, it means there was a problem with the software that was so subtle that it wasn't being exposed. The new antenna design led to new logic flows that exposed the old software problem.

Happens all the time in system products.

 

[tomccabe]

Thanks tomccabe for calming me down and making me appreciate the little things.

Hell, the big things are pretty universally overrated.

 

[ChrisNM]

When people are making unfounded "expert" claims I really see only one difference between calling them out and making them in the first place: I'm the one who's right. These people have no business and no qualifications to make such statements. If they did they would have defended themselves with facts (or presented them instead of the infantile content of their posts) instead of having you follow me around the forum.

So what you are really saying is you're clueless but that makes you qualified to challenge the expertise of others. And your cluelessness justifies your elitist attitude.

Textbook definition of delusional.

 

[mdickerson]

What kind of engineering? I have a degree in railroad engineering, does that qualify me?



But I do have the ability to tie my shoes! Though, you got me, I am certainly not a rocket cientist. So please, I'd love to hear the engineer's explanation on what this issue is SPECIFICALLY and WHY and HOW it will be fixed. Since you have a degree in "engineering" it shouldn't be much of an issue for you to explain this to us laymen.



Uh when I touch my phone's antenna it doesn't tell me anything. That's something I'd talk to a therapist about if I were you.

OK, I’ll give it a shot. I’m not giving you my full resume unless you’re planning to give me a job, but this might help: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/michael-dickerson/6/b28/3b6

a) The active element of the antenna for the iPhone is not the metal band. The metal band is the ground plane. The antenna is below the home button – the FCC submission shows this pretty clearly.
b) The impedance of the human body is about 1.5 kohms to ground. If the metal band were the active element of the antenna, it would read 50 ohms to ground. The 1.5 k in parallel with 50 ohms is still about 50 ohms (48.4 ohms). So, touching the antenna is neither extending its length significantly nor is the resistance of the body significantly affecting the antenna coupling or “shorting” it.
c) What causes changes in the antenna response is inductive and capacitive coupling. This is why other phones where the antenna is located behind plastic are still affected. You don’t actually need to touch it for inductive coupling to occur. The capacitive coupling (in this case) is responsible for an increase in the S11 of the antenna (approximately 15 dB at 900 MHz). I measured this on a monopole antenna using a Vector Network Analyzer I have in my lab. I’m not planning to take apart my phone just to satisfy my curiosity.
d) This increase in S11 results in multiple, periodic reflections of both a transmitted and received signal and is manifested as an increase in the noise floor (above the assumed Johnson noise). As a result, the signal-to-noise ratio decreases. This causes more errors.
e) I have examined the behavior of the signal bars a bit differently than others. Using a synthesized source, a monopole antenna and a small LNA, I subjected the phone to broadband, high-frequency noise. I didn’t do this very long because it’s not legal and the guys at No-Such-Agency are right down the street. This was in the presence of a 3G signal giving me 3 bars. Since the broadband noise would have effectively increased the power at whatever frequency the phone was monitoring for the signal bars, I expected the bars to go up a bit or stay the same. They went down. As a result, I think there is at least some component of measuring the SNR to the signal bar display. In a normal environment, the noise floor in an antenna is thermal (Johnson noise), so measuring the signal power is usually a good figure of merit. In my case (and based on my measurements in [d]), signal power is no longer good enough because the noise floor is artificially high. I think perhaps the phone has difficulty recovering from an SNR degradation because it doesn’t expect that kind of degradation in a TDMA environment. This could be fixed in software.
f) The GSM signal is a differential quadrature phase shift keyed format. It creates a “constellation” that will be affected by the decrease in SNR. The constellation can be rotated to adjust and the decision thresholds can be raised. A mitigation measure could be implemented in software.
g) The periodic reflections due to the increase in S11 will manifest themselves as a form of multipath interference. This can be mitigated in software using a relatively complex signal processing trick. I seriously doubt Apple has the processing power on the transceiver to implement another digital filter.

Again, I’m not taking apart my phone, but would love to do more testing on the antennas themselves. Since I’m not privy to Apple’s actual implementation, I can’t say what exactly will work, but there is absolutely a possibility that software could remedy the problem. However, software is unlikely to completely nullify it.

 

[SteveOutOfJobs]

Beats the hell out of my other 3 iPhones!

You have 4 phones? You must have the most awesome pair of pants with an unbelievable amount of pockets in them.

a) The active element of the antenna for the iPhone is not the metal band.

I stopped reading here. The active element of my phone is Slayer.

Hell, the big things are pretty universally overrated.

Speak for yourself. Keep stuffing your pants.

 

[tomccabe]

So what you are really saying is you're clueless but that makes you qualified to challenge the expertise of others. And your cluelessness justifies your elitist attitude.

Textbook definition of delusional.

1) That's not the definition of delusional.

2) The definition of delusional lies not in a textbook but in the dictionary. If you'd known that you might have been able to look up the definition.

 

[ten-oak-druid]

While I agree with much of this, the issue is *very* real for some users apparently and certainly I would be equally upset if it were me. It's a disservice to those affected to say it's mostly psychological.

Then we are actually in total agreement. I never said it wasn't real.

The psychological aspect is in terms of people freaking out over bars when they themselves have no problem. But that is not to say that if only a few were affected, that we shouldn't be concerned.

 

[diamond.g]

OK, I’ll give it a shot. I’m not giving you my full resume unless you’re planning to give me a job, but this might help: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/michael-dickerson/6/b28/3b6

a) The active element of the antenna for the iPhone is not the metal band. The metal band is the ground plane. The antenna is below the home button – the FCC submission shows this pretty clearly.
b) The impedance of the human body is about 1.5 kohms to ground. If the metal band were the active element of the antenna, it would read 50 ohms to ground. The 1.5 k in parallel with 50 ohms is still about 50 ohms (48.4 ohms). So, touching the antenna is neither extending its length significantly nor is the resistance of the body significantly affecting the antenna coupling or “shorting” it.
c) What causes changes in the antenna response is inductive and capacitive coupling. This is why other phones where the antenna is located behind plastic are still affected. You don’t actually need to touch it for inductive coupling to occur. The capacitive coupling (in this case) is responsible for an increase in the S11 of the antenna (approximately 15 dB at 900 MHz). I measured this on a monopole antenna using a Vector Network Analyzer I have in my lab. I’m not planning to take apart my phone just to satisfy my curiosity.
d) This increase in S11 results in multiple, periodic reflections of both a transmitted and received signal and is manifested as an increase in the noise floor (above the assumed Johnson noise). As a result, the signal-to-noise ratio decreases. This causes more errors.
e) I have examined the behavior of the signal bars a bit differently than others. Using a synthesized source, a monopole antenna and a small LNA, I subjected the phone to broadband, high-frequency noise. I didn’t do this very long because it’s not legal and the guys at No-Such-Agency are right down the street. This was in the presence of a 3G signal giving me 3 bars. Since the broadband noise would have effectively increased the power at whatever frequency the phone was monitoring for the signal bars, I expected the bars to go up a bit or stay the same. They went down. As a result, I think there is at least some component of measuring the SNR to the signal bar display. In a normal environment, the noise floor in an antenna is thermal (Johnson noise), so measuring the signal power is usually a good figure of merit. In my case (and based on my measurements in [d]), signal power is no longer good enough because the noise floor is artificially high. I think perhaps the phone has difficulty recovering from an SNR degradation because it doesn’t expect that kind of degradation in a TDMA environment. This could be fixed in software.
f) The GSM signal is a differential quadrature phase shift keyed format. It creates a “constellation” that will be affected by the decrease in SNR. The constellation can be rotated to adjust and the decision thresholds can be raised. A mitigation measure could be implemented in software.
g) The periodic reflections due to the increase in S11 will manifest themselves as a form of multipath interference. This can be mitigated in software using a relatively complex signal processing trick. I seriously doubt Apple has the processing power on the transceiver to implement another digital filter.

Again, I’m not taking apart my phone, but would love to do more testing on the antennas themselves. Since I’m not privy to Apple’s actual implementation, I can’t say what exactly will work, but there is absolutely a possibility that software could remedy the problem. However, software is unlikely to completely nullify it.

Honest question, I thought the 3G side is no longer TDMA but in fact WCDMA. Is it safe to assume that the SNR stuff will still apply?

 

[mentholiptus]

Yes, but unfortunately, that is my job. See below:

Dear ChrisNM,

Apple is facing a crisis. Over twenty years ago, a small, self-proclaimed group of elitists was formed to unconditionally support all Apple products, regardless of their actual quality. In the early years of our company, they provided an invaluable service. There was just enough of them to buy our less than successful products to keep our company afloat during those dark years when I was not at the helm of this great company.

But now this group, code named fanboys, has become a liability. Composed primarily of individuals lacking the most basic of social skills with an unfettered devotion to the Apple brand, they are the polar opposite of the target market that are products are designed for. At my personal direction, we have taken many steps to eradicate this scourge, including:

- Ignoring all communications from their so called user groups and alienating them at every opportunity (the very idea that these people think they can tell me what products to offer and how to run my company makes my blood boil).

- Knowing that they would be the first in line to buy the first iPhone, we intentionally jacked up the price $200 and then lowered it several months later. We then offered them a $100 store credit later to further insult them, but most of the fools actually thought it was an accommodation.

- We have constantly been behind in the rest of the market in our core computer business. The current Mac Pro hasn't been updated in years.

- Our latest attempt was to introduce the new iPhone with a special antenna that works fine in the slim hands of our target customers but drops calls when gripped by the large, greasy hands of these fan boys - but consistent with their conditioning, these fan boys continue to insist there is no problem.

For the first time in my career, I am at a loss. How do I make these people go away? That is where you, and others, come in. you must seek out these fan boys wherever they are and discredit them at every opportunity. It shouldn't be difficult, as they never know what they are talking about anyway. It is critical to the long term success of Apple that these vermin be destroyed once and for all. Happy hunting!

Sincerely,


Steve Jobs
CEO
Apple (not computer anymore) Inc.

Sassy!

 

[tomccabe]

OK, I’ll give it a shot. I’m not giving you my full resume unless you’re planning to give me a job, but this might help: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/michael-dickerson/6/b28/3b6

a) The active element of the antenna for the iPhone is not the metal band. The metal band is the ground plane. The antenna is below the home button – the FCC submission shows this pretty clearly.
b) The impedance of the human body is about 1.5 kohms to ground. If the metal band were the active element of the antenna, it would read 50 ohms to ground. The 1.5 k in parallel with 50 ohms is still about 50 ohms (48.4 ohms). So, touching the antenna is neither extending its length significantly nor is the resistance of the body significantly affecting the antenna coupling or “shorting” it.
c) What causes changes in the antenna response is inductive and capacitive coupling. This is why other phones where the antenna is located behind plastic are still affected. You don’t actually need to touch it for inductive coupling to occur. The capacitive coupling (in this case) is responsible for an increase in the S11 of the antenna (approximately 15 dB at 900 MHz). I measured this on a monopole antenna using a Vector Network Analyzer I have in my lab. I’m not planning to take apart my phone just to satisfy my curiosity.
d) This increase in S11 results in multiple, periodic reflections of both a transmitted and received signal and is manifested as an increase in the noise floor (above the assumed Johnson noise). As a result, the signal-to-noise ratio decreases. This causes more errors.
e) I have examined the behavior of the signal bars a bit differently than others. Using a synthesized source, a monopole antenna and a small LNA, I subjected the phone to broadband, high-frequency noise. I didn’t do this very long because it’s not legal and the guys at No-Such-Agency are right down the street. This was in the presence of a 3G signal giving me 3 bars. Since the broadband noise would have effectively increased the power at whatever frequency the phone was monitoring for the signal bars, I expected the bars to go up a bit or stay the same. They went down. As a result, I think there is at least some component of measuring the SNR to the signal bar display. In a normal environment, the noise floor in an antenna is thermal (Johnson noise), so measuring the signal power is usually a good figure of merit. In my case (and based on my measurements in [d]), signal power is no longer good enough because the noise floor is artificially high. I think perhaps the phone has difficulty recovering from an SNR degradation because it doesn’t expect that kind of degradation in a TDMA environment. This could be fixed in software.
f) The GSM signal is a differential quadrature phase shift keyed format. It creates a “constellation” that will be affected by the decrease in SNR. The constellation can be rotated to adjust and the decision thresholds can be raised. A mitigation measure could be implemented in software.
g) The periodic reflections due to the increase in S11 will manifest themselves as a form of multipath interference. This can be mitigated in software using a relatively complex signal processing trick. I seriously doubt Apple has the processing power on the transceiver to implement another digital filter.

Again, I’m not taking apart my phone, but would love to do more testing on the antennas themselves. Since I’m not privy to Apple’s actual implementation, I can’t say what exactly will work, but there is absolutely a possibility that software could remedy the problem. However, software is unlikely to completely nullify it.

FINALLY! Software can possibly cure most situations where this happens but not all. Wonderful response. Watch out for those 3 letter guys

 

[sishaw]

Absolutely agreed.

Why don't people simply return their phones if they are not happy instead of holding on to them but moaning about it? I just don't get it.

Actually, I believe the burden is on Apple to provide a product that does what it is supposed to do, and the "whining" (which I would call asserting our rights) is in many cases justified. APPLE needs to come clean on this and fix the problem.

Although I suppose if enough people returned their phones, Apple would do something, but it shouldn't have to come to that. Apple needs to step up.

 

[BobVB]

tip toeing through the trolls on both sides...

Way back when this first started a real sounding electronics engineer said it seemed like the antenna was actually being disconnected from the internal electronics, which does stand to reason if you think about it: one finger in the rights spot gets you a 20 dB signal strength drop, and further enclosing the entire bottom of the phone in a fleshy Faraday cage only drops it to 24dB.

It is like the electronics, seeing 'something' with the bridging reacts rendering the antenna basically disconnected from the internal workings. That is a software problem and that could very well be fixable with a software fix.

I wouldn't be shocked to see a real software fix helping the problem at the very least. (not like the 'see! you have fewer bars' fix of yesterday)