iPhone 5 Likely to Support AT&T '4G', Widening Speed Gap Over Verizon

[treyjustice]

I figured it would support this. I'm really glad. I easily get 4mbps here is DFW, Texas. With LTE rolling out later this month and our hspa+ getting upgraded and faster I wouldn't be surprised to see downloads around 10mbps when the next iphone comes out

 

[Thunderhawks]

Why do they label anything as 4G nowadays when it clearly isn't?

Betamax and 8-Track was taken

 

[HaiRy]

Typical case of looking only at the American market.

HSPA is nothing new in Europe, we've been having phones supporting it for several years. It's hardly the big selling point in other markets as it seems to be in the USA. People aren't not buying the iPhone because it doesn't support HSPA, the 3.6 Mbps offered on 3G seems to be keeping people content enough.

On the issue of 4G and HSPA, can we please just settle on the fact that HSPA is simply "3.5G" and nothing more. I don't see why people are getting worked up about the next iPhone needing 4G, LTE or whatever either, 3rd Generation tech has been around for over a decade (my Dad works in standards and was involved with 3G and now LTE) but it's only been in the past 3-4 years that the benefits of 3G tech have really taken off. It's for this reason that I can't see any benefit in being the first out with 4G technology; there's simply no real demand for it.

 

[treyjustice]

Coverage first, speed second.

Flat out, AT&Ts coverage is abysmal.

I travel all the time and my AT&T coverage is usually quite great. There are some areas I don't have 3G or EDGE but the same way my girlfriend won't get service in some areas on her verizon phone. I would rather have speed in an area I live then more coverage honestly.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Why do they label anything as 4G nowadays when it clearly isn't?

well technically it 4G but that is more because the carriers got them to change what is defined as 4G.

I call it Fake G. It pisses me off that they really are doing it. I would not be surprised if at some point LTE becomes known as 5G.

I say HSPA+ is more like 3.5G a lot like how Edge as 2.5G.

 

[bushido]

Apple is famous for concentrating on user experience rather than pure hardware specs. We all know that 3G drains the battery faster than EDGE, imagine what HSPA+ and 4G LTE will do! I sure as heck hope they figure out how to support HSPA+ and 4G LTE without a piss-poor battery life.

who cares about battery life anymore seriously, its not like u dont have to charge ur iphone every night as it is

 

[apolloa]

I still believe the new rumours today that the iPhone 4S or 5 WILL be announced on Monday but not put on sale until July or August.

 

[jav6454]

well technically it 4G but that is more because the carriers got them to change what is defined as 4G.

I call it Fake G. It pisses me off that they really are doing it. I would not be surprised if at some point LTE becomes known as 5G.

I say HSPA+ is more like 3.5G a lot like how Edge as 2.5G.

Its ironic how EDGE was originally defined as a 3G standard, but when AT&T adopted it they marketed it as just another 2G service (but technical users defined it as 2.75G). Now, HSPA+ has always been considered (originally) a 3.5G technology (21Mb/s) with the second revision of it (42 Mb/s) being the 3.75G equivalent. Funny how it's now upgraded to 4G....

 

[_Refurbished_]

Throughout the internet, this includes top rated journalists, people concern themselves with speeds and "speedtests". A maximum theoretical speed is, in a lot of cases, less important than latency.

While this may vary by area, ATT's latency ranges between 300 - 1000ms in the Orange County / LA / NY areas. Speeds range from abysmal > 2.5mbit.

My average latency on Verizon is 190ms. My WiFi is only 100ms lower than that. My average speeds range from .5mbit > 1.2 mbit and are much more consistent on a day to day basis.

Even though my speeds are better with ATT, my Verizon iPhone reloads sports scores faster, loads mobile sites faster, videos load more evenly and the majority of desktop sites fly by. Verizon's lower latency leads to a better overall experience. 1 mbit is sufficient for the majority of work that needs to be done on a mobile device.

The point I'm trying to make is that HSPA+ tends to have a lower latency than HSPA and that will be the most noticeable change for ATT users, as they transition to the iPhone 5(4s). A lot of tasks on the iPhone are latency related, and not speed related.

 

[chrmjenkins]

Its ironic how EDGE was originally defined as a 3G standard, but when AT&T adopted it they marketed it as just another 2G service (but technical users defined it as 2.75G). Now, HSPA+ has always been considered (originally) a 3.5G technology (21Mb/s) with the second revision of it (42 Mb/s) being the 3.75G equivalent. Funny how it's now upgraded to 4G....

And Verizon's LTE implementation was originally labeled 3.9G

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Its ironic how EDGE was originally defined as a 3G standard, but when AT&T adopted it they marketed it as just another 2G service (but technical users defined it as 2.75G). Now, HSPA+ has always been considered (originally) a 3.5G technology (21Mb/s) with the second revision of it (42 Mb/s) being the 3.75G equivalent. Funny how it's now upgraded to 4G....

it is all about what marketing wants.
2G vs 3G had fundamental changes in the technology in how it worked. 3g vs this fake G does not have those changes. It more of flipping a switch and making sure the backhaul can handle it (something that should never be put on a box like AT&T did with the infuse)

LTE is a fundamental change from 3G tech out there. Nothing is wrong with HSPA+ but marketing is what screwed everything up because first TMobile started BSing with it HSPA+4G (which is faster than AT&T's) then Verizon launched its true 4G network and Sprint had its 4G wi-Max. AT&T could not be left out so they joined T-Mobile in the lie.

I will say Sprint and Verizon are using what I call true 4G. I will let Wi-Max be a 4G techology but I will not call HSPA+ 4G.

 

[vincenz]

Well that seals it for me. iPhone 5 here I come.

 

[ToroidalZeus]

Typical case of looking only at the American market.

HSPA is nothing new in Europe, we've been having phones supporting it for several years. It's hardly the big selling point in other markets as it seems to be in the USA. People aren't not buying the iPhone because it doesn't support HSPA, the 3.6 Mbps offered on 3G seems to be keeping people content enough.

On the issue of 4G and HSPA, can we please just settle on the fact that HSPA is simply "3.5G" and nothing more. I don't see why people are getting worked up about the next iPhone needing 4G, LTE or whatever either, 3rd Generation tech has been around for over a decade (my Dad works in standards and was involved with 3G and now LTE) but it's only been in the past 3-4 years that the benefits of 3G tech have really taken off. It's for this reason that I can't see any benefit in being the first out with 4G technology; there's simply no real demand for it.

Typical European opening his mouth to chastise America. HSPA is different from HSPA+

 

[iSee]

I'd love to know (in order to figure out which phone I buy next what carrier I sign up with):

(1) What's the likely real-world speed difference between HSPA+ and LTE over the next few years?

(2) What will the relative availability of HSPA+ vs. LTE be over the next few years?

I'd especially like to know the answers to these in my area (SW CT), but any general US numbers would be nice too...

Can anyone even guess about (1) at this point?

 

[BryanLyle]

Jeez. I'm still waiting for 3G in my area. AT&T is all EDGE around here.

 

[longofest]

The international body that regulates the terms already ok'ed HSPA+ and greater and first gen LTE as '4G'. They use to require peak speeds of 100 Mbps, but no one liked that so here we are.

Verizon's LTE network wasn't even in the original definition because the next version "LTE-Advanced" is considered to be the eventual goal of the technology.

source: http://www.itu.int/net/pressoffice/press_releases/2010/48.aspx

Wikipedia disagrees with you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4G

The fastest 3G based standard in the WCDMA family is the HSPA+ standard, which was commercially available in 2009 and offers 28 Mbit/s downstreams without MIMO, i.e. only with one antenna (it would offer 56 Mbit/s with 2x2 MIMO), and 22 Mbit/s upstreams.

I just hope that AT&T's ping time gets better. The download speeds are great, but I can get sub-100 ms pings reliably on other networks (sprint, verizon), whereas AT&T likes to be consistently above 400ms.

 

[brownpaw]

Sorry, but can someone explain to me why anyone gives a **** about 4G? I consider myself a power user and my Verizon Droid X (got tired of waiting for the Verizon iPhone...) has never left me waiting for a page to load, or a video to buffer, etc. Downloads are plenty fast, too.

I just don't understand what people are doing on these devices that require so much bandwidth. Seems more like just another acronym so nerds can dick wag to their friends.

 

[wordoflife]

DO NOT WANT until my HSPA+ speeds are actually faster than my 3G speeds. For the most part, they are slower than 3G speeds in my area.

 

[jeffereyj]

i'm not going to pay even more money per month just so i can use "4G".

if i really need to download something faster than 3G i will just use wifi like i currently do.

using wifi doesn't add to my data cap anyway.

 

[Kentochan]

I guess Apple can market it as "iPhone 4G"? Or at least for the AT&T version?

 

[chrmjenkins]

Wikipedia disagrees with you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4G

That's where I verified my information before posting. It's even one of the sourced articles that I found independently via a google search.

On December 6, 2010, ITU announced that current versions of LTE, WiMax and other evolved 3G technologies that do not fulfill "IMT-Advanced" requirements could be considered "4G", provided they represent forerunners to IMT-Advanced and "a substantial level of improvement in performance and capabilities with respect to the initial third generation systems now deployed."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4G#cite_note-ITUSeminar-5

If you look further, HSPA+ and LTE (as Verizon implements it) are both part of the 3GPP family and are "3G transitional" protocols meaning they are 3.5G or later (source). Given that the current LTE and WiMax implementations are explicitly granted 4G status now, one would imagine HSPA+ must be 4G implicitly.

 

[cvaldes]

The key driver for Apple to adopt HSPA+ is the rest of the world. Second and third generation HSPA+ networks have been widely deployed outside of the United States. Since almost 60% of Apple's revenue derives from international markets, it would make good business sense to provide a handset that will exploit HSPA+ at this time.

The '4G' that is currently marketed is just that: a marketing term.

The ITU defines 4G as 1Gbps to slow-moving (e.g. pedestrian) and stationary devices and 100Mbps to fast-moving devices (e.g., trains, autos). The current LTE implementations (Verizon, AT&T, etc.) do not qualify for 4G compliance.

DO NOT WANT until my HSPA+ speeds are actually faster than my 3G speeds. For the most part, they are slower than 3G speeds in my area.

That's because you live in a country with backwater mobile operators, just like me.

In most HSPA+ markets, the HSPA+ networks are indeed faster than HSPA/EV-DO networks.

 

[mdatwood]

This is so funny .... I'll take Verizons "slow" 1Mbps CDMA 3G over AT&T's EDGE 2G any day of the Week/Month/Year.

^^^ That's the bottom line here

I love the "fall back" to HSPA+ ROFL in reality it's a fall back to EDGE

I haven't seen edge in a long time, and where I live 3g flies. Once again it's all about where you live.

 

[idea_hamster]

AT&T can cram it with walnuts ....

Really!

The real issue in NYC isn't connection speed but bandwidth. Still. After years.

The speed limit on the Long Island Expressway may be 55mph, but somehow tonight, as always, rush-hour traffic will be moving at about 20mph. Why? Good connection speed, but rotten bandwidth. No different for AT&T.

I can still barely check a plaintext email during the day downtown (forget using Map.app or Safari) and I can still barely send a plaintext sms from Penn Station on my way home.

They can roll out 9G; without more bandwidth, it's simply not good.

 

[DEXTERITY]

I travel all the time and my AT&T coverage is usually quite great. There are some areas I don't have 3G or EDGE but the same way my girlfriend won't get service in some areas on her verizon phone. I would rather have speed in an area I live then more coverage honestly.

what good is speed if you have no coverage? AT&T coverage in the Tri-State (NY/NJ) blows. I have three dropped calls a day with AT&T compared to ZERO EVER with Verizon.