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iPhone 5s accelerometer/gyroscope/compass values incorrect

AppleB said:
If there were no compass or level app we would be fine. Where was this all this talk of bad sensors when the 4s came out? There was none because now because of the M7 people are getting fired up.

The M7 just measures the data from the sensors the M7 has nothing to do with actual motion but most people don't know this.

I would have to see more concrete proof of bad sensors than the level app and compass app showing off readings or a 3 year old flight sim where the plane drifts. And it all started with the level app. No level app in iOS 6 there's no talk of bad sensors.

Gizmodo claims that holding the phone on a table causes the Car in Real Racing 3 to drift to the left. They don't mention if the sensitivity of the steering is adjusted in the game settings. I've tried the game and I had to adjust the settings for my perception of turning the device in relationship to turn the car. A real steering wheel doesn't stay level consistently.

If my screen didn't go from portrait to landscape then I would be worried of a bad accelerometer but even then it could be a software/iOS issue.

People actually think if they return their phone that magically out of the back of the Apple Store they will get one with good sensors. More than likely if there are millions of phones with bad sensors they'll get another one with bad sensors until Apple replaces the boards.They just can't throw new sensors in a board.

I bought the phone and Apple Care+. if something goes bad in the phone I'll take it back repair or replace. Damage out the box like the iPhone 5 now that's an issue. But not the level app being off.
Click to expand...

To some people , me included, it doesn't matter if you notice the fault or not. The buying experience has been tainted and the fact that all these phones came out of the factory with this fault is not acceptable.

To some people it's not an issue and they are happy to live with it.

To each their own, I wouldn't get worked up over what other people are doing.
 
AppleB said:
If there were no compass or level app we would be fine. Where was this all this talk of bad sensors when the 4s came out? There was none because now because of the M7 people are getting fired up.

The M7 just measures the data from the sensors the M7 has nothing to do with actual motion but most people don't know this.

I would have to see more concrete proof of bad sensors than the level app and compass app showing off readings or a 3 year old flight sim where the plane drifts. And it all started with the level app. No level app in iOS 6 there's no talk of bad sensors.

Gizmodo claims that holding the phone on a table causes the Car in Real Racing 3 to drift to the left. They don't mention if the sensitivity of the steering is adjusted in the game settings. I've tried the game and I had to adjust the settings for my perception of turning the device in relationship to turn the car. A real steering wheel doesn't stay level consistently.

If my screen didn't go from portrait to landscape then I would be worried of a bad accelerometer but even then it could be a software/iOS issue.

People actually think if they return their phone that magically out of the back of the Apple Store they will get one with good sensors. More than likely if there are millions of phones with bad sensors they'll get another one with bad sensors until Apple replaces the boards.They just can't throw new sensors in a board.

I bought the phone and Apple Care+. if something goes bad in the phone I'll take it back repair or replace. Damage out the box like the iPhone 5 now that's an issue. But not the level app being off.
Click to expand...

I really don't understand why some people get so bothered when others get a phone replaced or returned?
 
If the issue doesn't meet your expectation of what the new iPhone should offer either put up with it or return the unit for refund if that's an option. If you're stuck with it and don't like the issue then probably best to escalate or contact Tim Cook's office. ;)

I returned my unit for refund and will wait to see how things develop. If it's just the way things are and there's no change I'll probably pass on the new Apple model this time. Not a "good experience" of buying a premium Apple product for me.
 
AppleB said:
If there were no compass or level app we would be fine. Where was this all this talk of bad sensors when the 4s came out? There was none because now because of the M7 people are getting fired up.

The M7 just measures the data from the sensors the M7 has nothing to do with actual motion but most people don't know this.

I would have to see more concrete proof of bad sensors than the level app and compass app showing off readings or a 3 year old flight sim where the plane drifts. And it all started with the level app. No level app in iOS 6 there's no talk of bad sensors.

Gizmodo claims that holding the phone on a table causes the Car in Real Racing 3 to drift to the left. They don't mention if the sensitivity of the steering is adjusted in the game settings. I've tried the game and I had to adjust the settings for my perception of turning the device in relationship to turn the car. A real steering wheel doesn't stay level consistently.

If my screen didn't go from portrait to landscape then I would be worried of a bad accelerometer but even then it could be a software/iOS issue.

People actually think if they return their phone that magically out of the back of the Apple Store they will get one with good sensors. More than likely if there are millions of phones with bad sensors they'll get another one with bad sensors until Apple replaces the boards.They just can't throw new sensors in a board.

I bought the phone and Apple Care+. if something goes bad in the phone I'll take it back repair or replace. Damage out the box like the iPhone 5 now that's an issue. But not the level app being off.
Click to expand...

Every app that uses the sensors is currently not working as intended, and in the current state Apple's advertised "new generation of health and fitness apps" is impossible. Your low standards are not the issue, the product working as intended and advertised is.
 
Khedron said:
Every app that uses the sensors is currently not working as intended, and in the current state Apple's advertised "new generation of health and fitness apps" is impossible. Your low standards are not the issue, the product working as intended and advertised is.
Click to expand...

Well said :)
 
bitslap47 said:
First, let me just point out that resolution is not equal to accuracy.

Second, the BMA220 has a higher bandwidth (lower noise peaks) and selectable bandwidth (flexibility of software/firmware to config for an application.)

I can't find Bosch spec sheets. All links I have found are dead.

My guess is the BMA220 is actually better suited for how it is being used, but of course I don't have access to the iOS source to see how it is interfaced, or the spec sheets to see what integral filters, if any, are present on each.

There are a lot of good articles out there describing what each spec contributes to suitability and accuracy for a particular application.
Click to expand...

Here is the Bosch BMA220 spec sheet.

Edit: Sorry, I now see this was answered earlier in this thread.
 
Last edited:
Ries said:
Are you reading the same spec as me? Cause the spec says you should use the lowest mode depending on what you do with the device. 2g mode is for orientation, 4g/8g is for gaming. It can't do both at the same time. So they properly stuck it in 4g/8g mode, which causes orientation to have a very bad resolution.
Click to expand...

It's programmable via built-in interface and modes can be switched dynamically... not sure if they are doing this but they could.

Also, they can put it in max sensitivity mode and use software high/low pass filtering as needed for different OS and API exposures.

For example, orientation APIs will ignore anything between thresholds for orientation change, core motion will allow you to monitor pitch, yaw, etc.

----------
unix.beard said:
Here is the Bosch BMA220 spec sheet.

Edit: Sorry, I now see this was answered earlier in this thread.
Click to expand...

No problem...

Oh wait... this is MacRumors. I should bash you for not knowing something/everything and berate your for not reading every letter of every post or accidentally missing the post.

:D
 
Last edited:
leafspring said:
Funny thing is, by the way, that Bosch says on their web page that the BMA220 is only suited for simple tasks like detecting landscape/portrait orientation while only the BMA180(14-bit) is actually accurate enough to be used as a level.
Click to expand...

Funny you should mention this. I have, on several occasions now, had the camera invert the image as I was shooting in landscape mode. And, I am not talking about post processed inversion, but during the actual shooting. As if some sensor was telling the camera, "well, you are not at zero degrees, so you must be at 180!"
 
I've just been to my Genius Bar appointment. The genius hasn't heard about the sensor issue (I am sure that this is the case). He suggested to get a replacement but I was not sure about it (the phone is otherwise fine, no loose buttons etc). He asked me whether he could talk to other geniuses working in the back (dealing with hardware) and I agreed. He came back saying that they would not replace my phone today. Asking why he said that he had to choose his words carefully but they think that there could be a software update on the way. If the problem persist for another few weeks, they are happy to replace the phone. At the moment the replacement might have the same issue.- I am ok the way they dealt with this, since it is at this stage not obvious whether it is a soft- or hardware related problem. As others have suggested, I wait until I hear about further developments.
 
BMA220 target applications
> Display profile switching (e.g. portrait/landscape)
> Tap sensing function
> Menu scrolling
> Gaming
> Advanced power management for mobile devices
> Shock detection

BMA180 target applications
> Navigation (INS/Dead Reckoning)
> High accurate tilt detection (e.g. tilt compensated compass)
> Pointing and menu scrolling
> Display profile switching (e.g. portrait/landscape)
> Gaming
> Drop detection for warranty logging
> Shock detection
> Step-counting



Looks like they should have gone with the BMA180 since the M7 is all about navigation and fitness apps. Instead they went for low power, so they can claim the M7 uses almost no battery but because it doesn't actually work.
 
Khedron said:
BMA220 target applications
> Display profile switching (e.g. portrait/landscape)
> Tap sensing function
> Menu scrolling
> Gaming
> Advanced power management for mobile devices
> Shock detection

BMA180 target applications
> Navigation (INS/Dead Reckoning)
> High accurate tilt detection (e.g. tilt compensated compass)
> Pointing and menu scrolling
> Display profile switching (e.g. portrait/landscape)
> Gaming
> Drop detection for warranty logging
> Shock detection
> Step-counting



Looks like they should have gone with the BMA180 since the M7 is all about navigation and fitness apps. Instead they went for low power, so they can claim the M7 uses almost no battery but because it doesn't actually work.
Click to expand...

The other sensors on board supplement data collection and likely fill the gaps easily.
 
Guys, since the compass, accellerometer and gyroscope are 3 different and separate chips, wouldn't be a software/firmware reading issue more likely? What i mean is that for the phone to have problem in both compass and level areas, there would be at least 2 sensors broken, which i think would be really strange and unlikely. What do you think?

I'm sorry if this has been already discussed in the thread and if i got something wrong. I am still waiting to have my phone sent, so i'm pondering if i should cancel the order or not.
 
ArminOF said:
I just spoke to the German Apple support and they told me that a recovery-mode restore should help. After the restore (important: do not install the backup) the phone should be connected to a power supply for 90 minutes without touching it. After 90 minutes it should be configured as a new phone (do not recover from backup yet) and then checked, if the problem is still there.

If the problem is still there after this procedure, the backup data is the problem they told me.

http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1808?viewlocale=en_US

will try that later myself and report if it solves the problem

Kr
Click to expand...

All of this didn't work for me and I'm not aware of anyone who found that it resolved their problem. However, I restore and reset my iphone 5s to factory and the reading were 1 degree less on all sides and as soon as I restored my backup, it went back up another degree on each side. I tried this at least three times with the same results. Very interesting!!
 
Patrek said:
I'm sorry if this has been already discussed in the thread and if i got something wrong. I am still waiting to have my phone sent, so i'm pondering if i should cancel the order or not.
Click to expand...

Patrek, it's really up to you. I took a chance and bought a 5S yesterday with knowledge I could take it back in 14 days. My house is too old--1954--and we have a lot of unlevel areas from so many decades of settling, so I didn't bother doing the tests by Gizmodo and people here. I did, however, download Temple Run for a "test"....I laid it flat on the table and my guy stayed in the center and turned properly when I swiped to go around corners. I then picked up the phone and he still stayed centered and moved left or right when I tilted without going off the edge. I also tested the map program from the mall to my house and it was spot on.

IMO, and for my needs, my phone works. I'm happy with the purchase. White/Gray 16GB...week 38
 
Patrek said:
Guys, since the compass, accellerometer and gyroscope are 3 different and separate chips, wouldn't be a software/firmware reading issue more likely? What i mean is that for the phone to have problem in both compass and level areas, there would be at least 2 sensors broken, which i think would be really strange and unlikely. What do you think?

I'm sorry if this has been already discussed in the thread and if i got something wrong. I am still waiting to have my phone sent, so i'm pondering if i should cancel the order or not.
Click to expand...

I imagine that data from the accelerometer is needed to interpret data from the 3D magnetometer (compass). If the data from the accelerometer isn't accurate, the compass needle won't point in the correct direction.
 
Khedron said:
BMA220 target applications
> Display profile switching (e.g. portrait/landscape)
> Tap sensing function
> Menu scrolling
> Gaming
> Advanced power management for mobile devices
> Shock detection

BMA180 target applications
> Navigation (INS/Dead Reckoning)
> High accurate tilt detection (e.g. tilt compensated compass)
> Pointing and menu scrolling
> Display profile switching (e.g. portrait/landscape)
> Gaming
> Drop detection for warranty logging
> Shock detection
> Step-counting



Looks like they should have gone with the BMA180 since the M7 is all about navigation and fitness apps. Instead they went for low power, so they can claim the M7 uses almost no battery but because it doesn't actually work.
Click to expand...

Looks like the 180 is too big for this application

7esadujy.jpg


The M7 just measures motion data things which the A7 would be doing normally. If the A7 did those task it would be more power consumption.

How do you know the M7 doesn't work?
 
Londoncity said:
Don't waste your time, it's been tried by many including me and made no difference at all.
Click to expand...

leafspring said:
Of course you can try it if you want but it's probably a waste of time as the display phones in the Apple stores are factory fresh without any restores or previous data and still show deviations.

However, as I stated earlier in this thread, doing the power supplied 90-minute DND does actually reduce the deviation.
Click to expand...

You were right, it didn't help. Just called Apple. Will return my 5s now and order a new one in a few weeks, when hopefully they will have fixed the problem...
 
Sensorgate

The problem remains, that this sensor issue does not appear to be gaining any traction in the press. This may materially affect how Apple handles the matter.
 
AppleB said:
Looks like the 180 is too big for this application

Image

The M7 just measures motion data things which the A7 would be doing normally. If the A7 did those task it would be more power consumption.

How do you know the M7 doesn't work?
Click to expand...

The M7 isn't working at the moment. As well as the tilt and compass problems in this thread, other people have reported the "background step counts" are nonsense (steps when motionless and sleeping etc.). The BMA180 specifically mentions suitability for navigation, dead reckoning, compass tilt, and step counting. All these features are absent from the BMA220 specification.

Since this is the first time a Bosch MEMS chip has been used in an iPhone I'm hoping there is still just some quirk of integrating its data that can be improved in a new software update, but even in that case it remains to be seen what limitations the BMA220 will still have compared to the iPhone 5's different chip.
 
Swinn said:
Patrek, it's really up to you. I took a chance and bought a 5S yesterday with knowledge I could take it back in 14 days. My house is too old--1954--and we have a lot of unlevel areas from so many decades of settling, so I didn't bother doing the tests by Gizmodo and people here. I did, however, download Temple Run for a "test"....I laid it flat on the table and my guy stayed in the center and turned properly when I swiped to go around corners. I then picked up the phone and he still stayed centered and moved left or right when I tilted without going off the edge. I also tested the map program from the mall to my house and it was spot on.

IMO, and for my needs, my phone works. I'm happy with the purchase. White/Gray 16GB...week 38
Click to expand...

I'm happy also with my Space Grey 64GB

I did a compass comparison with the compass in my car and they were both the same. If the car said NW the 5S said NW. So I guess my car compass and the 5S have a conspiracy to wrong together. Lol. I'm keeping my 5S also.
 
haha I just hope the apple engineers are reading all the posts and :D it would be hilarious for them if they have already figured out the solution to this but are just re-testing it on various phones for a couple of weeks so no drifting etc etc takes place...

Com'on :apple: sort our issue ;)
 
AppleB said:
I'm happy also with my Space Grey 64GB

I did a compass comparison with the compass in my car and they were both the same. If the car said NW the 5S said NW. So I guess my car compass and the 5S have a conspiracy to wrong together. Lol. I'm keeping my 5S also.
Click to expand...

Stand your car up on it's long and short sides and post the pictures please
 
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