What write up calls EIS, is normally revered to as software image stabilization, or SIS. EIS is done in different ways but one common method is yo have the sensor able to move on an XY plane and follow the axis electronically. The success with this method, so far, has been limited.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
iPhone 6 Camera May Feature Electronic Image Stabilization, Bigger Pixel Size
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
What write up calls EIS, is normally revered to as software image stabilization, or SIS. EIS is done in different ways but one common method is yo have the sensor able to move on an XY plane and follow the axis electronically. The success with this method, so far, has been limited.
Where is the logic for getting a super thin phone only to make it fat with a thick case?
Highly unlikely we'll ever see proper API support for manual controls.
----------
"Our way or the highway" - unfortunately, for Apple, form is definitely over functionality.
----------
They have always done so. Huge sensors and quality optics require depth (thickness). See for example the Nokia 808, which is still unmatched WRT image quality.
Apple will be the last to come up with a thicker iPhone "only" to provide a better-quality, that is, larger-sensor and/or optically stabilized camera. They have always lagged WRT camera behind the competition (particularly Nokia) and will continue to do so.
----------
Too bad any kind of electronic stabilization is inherently inferior to optical ones. For example, you can't make use of the full sensor area to shoot. This not only results in reduced pixel number, but also the further narrowing of the field-of-view - something that has always pretty narrow with iPhones. Even the 5s only has a 30mm equiv lens (significantly narrower - around 38mm equiv - in 1080p and 720p video mode), while all the competitors have around 27-28mm equiv lens, most of them having the same FoV when shooting video.
----------
Too bad electronic stabilization won't help much, unless they sacrifice a large area of sensor for stabilization.
The 5s already has some kind of a still stabilization feature. Too bad it's vastly inferior to optical stabilization, as has been proved by numerous reviews; for example, the one at http://connect.dpreview.com/post/7518611407/apple-iphone5s-smartphone-camera-review?page=4 (see section "Image Stabilization"). The conclusion of the given section:
"Given that Apple’s stabilization seems to help at least somewhat and doesn’t incur the nasty image quality penalties that dog some other digital stabilization implementations (such as those that simply crank ISO to stupendous heights), we’d say it’s a nice addition to the 5s’ bag of tricks. Still, it’s no substitute for true optical stabilization."
----------
I don't think it's much better. It's definitely better - but by not a large margin.
----------
It's somewhat narrower - 33mm equiv. The 5s figure (30mm), however, was right.
Won't happen. 27-28mm seems to be the "sweet spot". No wonder Apple has also strived to reach it. (They still haven't managed to do this but they seem to be on the right track.)
20-23mm is already ultra wideangle definitely not good for shooting portraits. It'd, unless the lens is properly designed (which is pretty hard, given the size constraints), very suspectible to fisheye distortion - something most UWA manufacturers try to avoid (unless producing a dedicated fisheye lens, that is).
If the phone is in fact thinner it will be interesting to see how they accomplished this. Maybe they are bonding the sensor to the back of the front glass to pick up a millimeter or two of thickness.
In any event larger sensor elements would be a big win, if they also up resolution, even a little bit, the quality of the pictures should be great. Frankly the big pixels will improve low light performance and Apple needs that as low light performance isn't all that great in these cameras.
Also LG (see Pro 2 and the G2) and HTC (previous year's flagships - regrettably, not the new ones). Those OIS implementations are pretty good.
If they sacrifice the battery for thinness it will put me off the iPhone 6... if they sacrifice the camera for thinness then it will stop me buying an iPhone 6 altogether.
The iP6 needs optical stabilisation and manual controls to contest a rising number of great camera phones that offer the flexibility that the iPhone currently doesent.
The iP6 needs optical stabilisation and manual controls to contest a rising number of great camera phones that offer the flexibility that the iPhone currently doesent.
That is the whole point of going to larger sensor elements as opposed to more pixels. All things being equal if you increase the size of each pixel you increase low light performance.
You can also lock exposure with almost all third-party apps. Also, if you JB and purchase the absolutely essential "CameraTweak" (which I have recommended in several of my writeups), it'll allow for selective focus and exposure locks.
It's not possible to set the shutter speed. Only two settings are possible:
- lengthening the shutter speed from the maximal 1/15s to 1s on almost all iDevices. This allows for much better low-light shots. Available in many 3rd party photo apps.
- instead of 1/15s, using 1/30s on the iPhone 5s and 1/20s on the iPhone 5/5c using apps like 645 Pro. (See my dedicated writeup at DPReview HERE.)
----------
Nevertheless, it's still much better to have a tool that is capable of shooting good images. Even in the hands of a great photog.
----------
Won't ever happen. It'll be too bulky - the Nokia 808, the best cameraphone, is 18mm thick. Apple will never put such a huge (1/1.2") sensor in their phones.
----------
High-megapixel sensors, when properly designed and manufactured (without trying to make the phone as thin as possible), can deliver absolutely excellent, stunning images. This has nothing to do with the "Megapixel war". Just shoot a bit with the Nokia 808 and I guarantee you'll fall in love with its image quality.
$100.00 more?!?!!
ARE YOU NUTS? That's the cell phone carriers putting that up!!! They cant get enough money out of there contracts...They constantly try to negotiate with us with AT&Ts NEXT program which is a farce, and other carriers with there own. None of it really benefits us at all....
ARE YOU NUTS? That's the cell phone carriers putting that up!!! They cant get enough money out of there contracts...They constantly try to negotiate with us with AT&Ts NEXT program which is a farce, and other carriers with there own. None of it really benefits us at all....
Exactly. The Nokia 808 (and, to a lesser degree, the 1020) is (are) great. It (they) produce(s) orders of magnitude better, more detailed images than even the 5s.
Exactly! Simply shipping larger pixels should do much to improve picture quality in a variety of lighting conditions.
Well yeah he can suggest all he wants but reality is a different story. Given that light capturing ability remains the same, that is pixel size is held constant a big sensor is a huge advantage. The problem is physics comes into play and there is just so much room to work with in a cell phone.
Ultimate image quality is based on a bunch of factors all working together to produce good results for the intended application. This is why various SLR/DSLR platforms generate followings that often vary by use. A sport photographer often would prefer a Cannon while a news photographer might go with a Nikon. Often they would end up using the same film.
What does this have to do with iPhones camera? Simple, I see Apple actually trying to engineer a high quality camera where all the parts work together to produce the best possible image in a wide range of usage.
Yeah I know it won't happen (and it's a good thing too - 20mm portrait?!). I just wanted to point out, that bigger image sensor and thinner iPhone do not really work together.
Too bad, that Apple got its priorities wrong (imo)
Oh please... shoot some days with the 808, examine the results even fully zoomed in, compare the images to those of any(!) other cameraphone around and, then, let's return to the subject
I guarantee you'll also realize not all high-Megapixel shooters are cr@p. When properly designed, they can deliver stunning results.
Also add that those images have been shot with the Nokia Lumia 1020 and 1520. Even the 1020 has significantly lower image quality than the Nokia 808, let alone the 1520.
(Of course, cameras like the Z2 have even worse IQ than the 1520.)
----------
It's currently doing this. It's one of the reasons the FoV (field-of-view) of the iPhone is so narrow when shooting high-def (720p/1080p) video.
In the stock Camera app, you can't disable it. In third-party ones, you can, which results in a significant widening of the FoV. (See my complete writeup on this HERE for more info.)
----------
Even better, the 808 sensor is significantly larger than that of the 1020 - 1/1.2". No wonder it delivers absolutely wonderful images.
----------
Yup, several articles here at MR (and everywhere on the Web) have talked about iPhone 6 receiving OIS in the last few months.
One thing is for sure, its seems the camera is the component that most phone makers are focusing on (pun intended
I would love to see a better camera, but also controls that match the better performance, i.e., ISO, shutter speed, WB, f-stop. I doubt it, because Apple's ethos is not about giving controls to the user but making it easier (but less flexible)
That is thinking from the dark ages of photography! I'm not even sure that cell phone cameras even have control over the f-stop. Things like HDR take away the control of "shutter speed" also. That is if the sensor even has a shutter.
Now having more control is always good so in that regard improvements can be made to the camera app. However do you really need to set "shutter speed" directly? The high resolution displays offer newer ways to tweak an exposure. I'd rather see Apple innovate here when it comes to creative manual control of the camera.
I too use an expensive and large Otterbox case with my iPhone 5. Just to be on the safe side when it gets dropped.
----------
The Nokia N86 had variable aperture. (But no other cameraphones.)
1. Support for HDR has absolutely nothing to do with manual shutter speed, particularly not in Apple's / Samsung's / HTC's semi-HDR implementation, which doesn't use mechanical shutters for the consequent two readouts. This is why these shots generally have much less ghosting artifacts than shots made in the traditional stitching & full shots approach but also have significantly lower dynamic range. (I've published a lot of additional info on this subject here at MR: LINK.)
2. Most (if not all) flagship smartphones have mechanical shutters. Electronic shutters are still lagging behind mechanical ones and there are only very few proper electronic shutter implementations not available for third parties (e.g., Nikon's own System 1 electronic shutter, which is almost as good as a mechanical one.)
Yes, a lot of us actually do. Just try shooting sports activities in not-very-bright light. The iPhone, in order to keep ISO at the base ISO as long as possible, will reduce the shutter speed to even 1/15s (it'll start bumping the ISO after decreasing the shutter speed to this value), which means you won't be able to shoot a single well-made shot.
Unfortunately, iOS lacks both scene modes and manual ISO settings. These two would easily fix this problem and are available on every single competing smartphone platform.
Needless to say, unlike many consumer cameras (even five-year-old ones like the Pana ZS 3), the iPhone can't detect the type of the subject you're shooting. that is, if you shoot, say, a runner, it won't bump up the ISO so that it can also raise the shutter speed to a much more sports-friendly 1/250s or 1/500s.
I came here to say this but you said it for me. This is one of the few reasons megapixels are still important.
Apple needs to understand once for all that the battery is a big issue with the iPhone devices, though some like Ive may not like it, no matter how much they invest in R&D, for now there are no magical solutions allowing to propose a thinner iPhone with a battery which can last at least one day under heavy use.
BRING A THICKER IPHONE WITH A 2500/3000MAH Battery
Apple should start by, say, providing a decent Camera API allowing third-party apps to properly use manual settings. The lack of this is what causes the iPhone camera not being able to shoot sports in dim(mer) light, as I've also explained above. And a lot other things.
At some point phones will be sculpted, not flat, and the middle will be thick and the edges this. Think tiny iMac. They will seem thin, but be much nicer to hold and will be able to house bigger cameras.
Wedding photographers, actually photographers in general don't make a lot of money so they tend to use their hardware for very long periods of time. The guy may be lusting after a new camera but knows that camera will break the budget.
Beyond that the quality of the lens makes a huge difference. Most likely he was using a pro quality zoom lens which goes a long ways to helping with composition.
Yep physics is a bitch! However there are potential advancements on the horizon. One example is the possibility of sensors enhanced with quantum dots. So there is hope that the efficiency of the sensors can be improved.
I can actually see Apple doing this. That is providing support for a thicker camera assembly via a bump in the housing. Further I can see the pm supporting interchangeable lens on one or more iPhones. Ultimately once you hit the wall with sensor size lenses are your only other avenue of improvement.
You and others in these forums seem to have a need to discount significant engineering achievements that Apple achieves. Systematic improvements year after year are not easy things to accomplish and frankly the nearer you are to the physical limits the harder those engineering achievements are to attain. If they in fact do bump the pixel size in an actually thinner camera that is a significant accomplishment and not a minor tweak.
There is. Buy a camera.
----------
It's still lighter than a super-fat phone with a thick case.
Iphone has had electronic image stabilization since iPhone 4s
http://www.tuaw.com/2011/10/14/iphone-4s-video-image-stabilization-in-action/
http://www.tuaw.com/2011/10/14/iphone-4s-video-image-stabilization-in-action/