iPhone 6 Rear Camera to Retain 8-Megapixel Sensor, Offer Improved Image Stabilization?

[Renzatic]

And all Nokia had to do was make the phone twice a thick to accomplish that…
The trick is that the pure view camera sensor is 5x the size of the iPhone 5s. This means that the sensor has pixels about the same size as the iPhones.
Incorporating this would require a massive compromise to the rest of the phone.
For better or worse, there is no way that Apple will allow a camera to increase the size of the phone by that much to accommodate a similar solution.

Yeah, I said something similar a couple posts later..

Though if you really want my opinion, I don't know why everyone is trying to make this into yet another quality vs. mediocre argument. For its size, the 5S takes incredibly good pictures. It's not a bad camera at all. The Nokia does takes better shots, but, like you said, it has to sacrifice a little bit of thin and sleek to get there.

Whichever you like better all depends on where your priorities lie. If I wanted a good, thin phone with a solid camera, I'd get the iPhone. If I wanted a good phone with a great camera, and didn't mind the bit of extra size, I'd go with the Nokia.

 

[Ieo]

I don't care about the numbers as long as the camera continues to make significant improvements as evidenced in the final product.

They tell me with the 5S, I can get rid of my point and shoot. The pictures say otherwise...close, but not quite there yet. I think with a bigger push on the 6, it can get there.

 

[MaSx]

I hope Apple does not disappoint us with iPhone 6. Even the most hardcore Apple fan have had some mixed thoughts for awhile now. I hope they come up with something really good this year. Looking forward to a larger display at least 5inch and you can keep the rest of the **** same and give me battery life. I am all in. If I don't see a larger display for iPhone 6. I'm done.

 

[Breenston]

They tell me with the 5S, I can get rid of my point and shoot. The pictures say otherwise...close, but not quite there yet. I think with a bigger push on the 6, it can get there.

What. With the same sensor design? A soon to be 2 odd year old design? Yeah, ok. Whatever.

 

[Sharkey311]

I just want them to update the front face camera. If they could make both the front and rear cameras equal, I'd be set

 

[yarkko]

Worst mistake

This will be the worst mistake of APPLE, competition is huge and all have phones with better cameras, resolution and quality. If you do this will lose more market participation. Just as the screen size should extend at least 5 inches.

 

[macduke]

There are only so many photons that can go through a pinhole-sized lens. Since, according to the laws of physics, you can't divide up photons, trying to make the pixels so small that only a few photons hits one just increases noise (the statistical grain caused by the huge difference between N photons and N+1 photons when N is small). Or use a longer exposure, which causes blur on a handheld. Or use a bigger lens which makes your iPhone thicker and chunkier. Choose.

A small lens also has diffraction limits. More pixels smaller than the diffraction Airy spot are just wasted.

With better image stabilization, a camera might get away with a slightly longer exposure for some types of still subjects.

Same applies to Moore's law. Once transistors get down to one atom or so, it's hard to make them slightly smaller next year.

Thanks for posting something that was actually informative. It seems like we may need a fundamental redesign of how digital camera systems work to keep progressing? Perhaps something really crazy, like biological tissues.

This is true, but the flip side is that technology has also progressed to the point that by keeping the same megapixels we can have a drastic increase in quality and noise levels.

The 5s has a significantly better camera then the 4s. I'm sure that the trend will continue with the 6.

As for the digital zoom issue; sure more MP could be a solution, but that compromise will be stagnating the overall image quality. I'd much rather be able to take a cleaner low light image over a better zoom that will only work in extremely well lit conditions.

Megapixels on a phone wouldn't really be an issue if it weren't for the fact that they lack optical zoom. That's the main reason I want more megapixels. I often crop before posting something online if it's too far away. Even if they could somehow fit in a tiny 2X zoom system that would go a long way.

I think the way to go is larger sensors, like they did last year. But how large can you really make a sensor in a phone while keeping it thin? I just bought my wife a Sony RX100 the other day (got a sweet deal on sale for $399 and paired it with an EyeFi Pro X2 for wireless) and the 1" sensor puts it head and shoulders above the rest of the point and shoot cameras out there. But it's also bulkier than, say, the Canon S120 and quite a bit more expensive at normal MSRP ($649). At some point physics is going to bump up against device thinness, and unfortunately Apple may just have to settle for one of those horrible bumps that many other phones have. Or some people might just go back to carrying two devices, especially as cameras become smarter and easily connect with our phones for sharing photos.

 

[Millah]

Maybe... but I've been feeling like Apple has been falling behind on the iPhone camera hardware a little too much. I'd like to see more substantial improvements.

One nice thing about more MP is that one could crop in and still retain decent resolution. That's a nice thing about Nokia's 41MP lumina. Only problem with that is that its a windows phone.

Falling behind? The 5S camera is one of the best, if not THE best in the market. I hardly consider that "falling behind"

 

[IlluminatedSage]

I'm not alone in hoping Apple decides to use one of the leading edge camera parts from Sony.

Hell, the Sony phone has 20 Megapixel higher resolution camera.

Apple to continue using the same parts equates to standing still and providing higher margins.

Users want more reasons to upgrade. not just a better CPU and fingerprint scanner on a larger screen.

Take a look at this info on the Sony new Phone with great camera built in.

Can't we get this type of camera in the iphone?

http://www.sonymobile.com/us/products/phones/xperia-z1s/features/#camera

 

[Gym Hellwig]

here we go. iPhone 6 talk already

Already? It's been over 100 days since the last iphone.

 

[Speedy2]

that may be true, but the iPhone no longer has the best camera (not by a long shot) and 8 megapixel are a joke compared to what Nokia, LG and Sony are producing.

A lot of reviews seem to disagree entirely with you. According to them the iPhone 5S camera is among the best. Between a lot of respectable reviewers and you I choose .... not you.

 

[CausticPuppy]

That isn't how it works. It takes a picture at 41MP, processes the colors from the high resolution original, then downsizes the final image to around 3MP. That's what makes the Nokia camera so nice. Not that it's 41MP, everyone's right that resolution can only take you so far, but rather how it uses that resolution to produce a nice end result. In fact, if you dig around in the software, you can find the 41MP original image in the cache.

In the Nokia's case, Nokia has chosen to improve low-light performance at the expense of dynamic range. Taking a 41MP photo and then downsampling it will eliminate a lot of sensor noise-- but because the photo sites are small, the dynamic range is lower. So you'll have reduced shadow detail or blown highlights more often.

 

[zioxide]

Yes.. 4S = 8 MP. iPhone 5 = 8 MP with some "enhancements". iPhone 5S = 8MP with some "enhancements".

iPhone 6 = 8MP with "enhancements"??

I know megapixels aren't everything, but good luck telling the masses that the camera is really improving if you try that again.

Well, from the 5 to the 5S, they increased the sensor size, by what, 15%? That's a pretty big increase and does way more for getting better image quality than cramming more megapixels on the same sized sensor. All that does is increase noise.

You could cram 100 megapixels into that little sensor they use in all these cameras and the quality would end up being worse than the one taken with the 8 megapixel one.

 

[Speedy2]

That problem is already being addressed with the new H.265 codec. I see the 4K changeover happening because I deal with trends in video camera tech and film making.

H.265 right now is an extremely slow and power hungry codec. There is no hardware encoding support for ARM SoCs yet. The current iPhone CPU can just about decode it, but encoding would take forever. Real-time is impossible.
It will take a while till proper hardware support will pop up. There are special chips for HEVC encoding, but these are not suitable for smartphones due to power consumption issues.

iPhone 6S maybe.

 

[Nevaborn]

I'm not alone in hoping Apple decides to use one of the leading edge camera parts from Sony.

Hell, the Sony phone has 20 Megapixel higher resolution camera.

Apple to continue using the same parts equates to standing still and providing higher margins.

Users want more reasons to upgrade. not just a better CPU and fingerprint scanner on a larger screen.

Take a look at this info on the Sony new Phone with great camera built in.

Can't we get this type of camera in the iphone?

http://www.sonymobile.com/us/products/phones/xperia-z1s/features/#camera

It looks to be a really good phone this why Sony dominated CES, their 4k tv's were impressive, their cameras with great detail, contrast vibrancy and post picture focusing and PS4 news.

Dony is seriously stepping up in 2014 and challenging a lot of big companies.

 

[gkarris]

Next, Apple's stock will take a huge dip when they announce that their phones will continue to have screens less than 7 inches...

 

[Renzatic]

In the Nokia's case, Nokia has chosen to improve low-light performance at the expense of dynamic range. Taking a 41MP photo and then downsampling it will eliminate a lot of sensor noise-- but because the photo sites are small, the dynamic range is lower. So you'll have reduced shadow detail or blown highlights more often.

From what I've seen of the low light shots, it seems to err more towards the darks. So yeah, blown highlights.

But still, for a camera phone, those aren't bad shots at all. I'd almost put it up against a good point 'n shoot.

 

[krravi]

Please.. no more thin phones. It looks ridiculous. I have the 5S now and I wish it was thicker like the 4S. Could have used more battery life. Not sure what I gained by a thin phone other than bragging rights.

 

[brdeveloper]

This is the way to go. Thanks Apple!

I'd rather have really good 8MP pics than mediocre 40+ MP pics.

I agree with Lumia 1020 being mediocre in still pictures, but Nokia 808 Pureview (the Symbian one) is amazing with its big 1/1.2" sensor. It's basically a premium compact camera capable of calling and sharing pictures on Facebook.

 

[satchmo]

Sounds like some are falling for specs all over again.
Just as MHz alone don't determine the speed of a computer, neither do mega pixels.

Lots of factors go into making a product great.

 

[Northgrove]

8 MP is fine, and as others have said, I agree that quality optics is more important. The megapixel count has nothing to do with optical quality, just how large photos you'll get and how quickly you'll run out of space on iCloud, how much processing power they demand, etc. And 8 MP is easily good enough for a European/Japanese A3 size, or 11" x 17" inch paper in the USA. If you really need more than that, what the hell are you doing with a camera phone, haha. You'll only be disappointed if printing a poster sized photo from a phone, regardless which one the market it is. There just isn't physical space for all that high quality with very large sizes.

 

[longofest]

You made two posts in as many minutes that put megapixels on a pedestal as if they are the only measure of improvement. Then take all of the insanely great innovation that Apple has done with mobile camera generations and chalk them up as "enhancements". Pretty irresponsible.

The general public? What do they know about cameras? Photographers (of which I am one) are thoroughly impressed, especially with the 5 and overwhelmed with the 5S.

I'm not saying the camera on the iPhone hasn't gotten better. I'm saying that the camera on other phones has gotten better faster.

I'm 100% for optical image stabilization. that would be a great feature. But I think if that is the only real addition they add to the camera they will remain behind - they need to do catch up work.

Some of the biggest gripes my wife and I have of our iPhone 4S and iPhone 5 cameras are:

- pictures of the kids are constantly blurry because they move too fast. Bigger aperature to allow for faster shutter speeds?
- We always need to crop because it's not always feasible to get close to the subject, but then we loose a lot of resolution. Optical zoom isn't feasible on phone camera, but I do think what Nokia did with lumina was innovative way to solve the issue.

So, yes, I do want to see higher megapixel counts but I want to see other improvements as well. Enough of these minor upgrades - Apple needs to catch up.

 

[ApfelKuchen]

Leaving aside the fact that, despite this being a rumors forum, folks debate as if this was all gospel truth....

The key to the success of a mass-market "Swiss Army Knife" is not one spec here, or one feature there. It's the totality. Being nearly at the top of the specs, in category after category, is better than being #1 in several and being mediocre or poor in the rest. There are always compromises to be made when consumers select a product, the trick for the manufacturer is to make those compromises relatively painless.

What photographic options lie open to Apple outside of changing the imaging sensor? Here's a short, incomplete list:

• With an improved display, same-quality photos will look better than ever (the vast majority of images taken will only be viewed on the device).
  
• Adding a 2x multiplier lens would trump a bump-up to 12MP for those who crop-to-zoom, without increasing storage requirements for every photo that goes un-cropped.
  
• Improved image stabilization (optical or otherwise) also improves crop-factor.
  
• Another fun feature like pano and slo-mo is likely to be far more compelling to the casual photographer than a generally-imperceptible improvement in tech specs.

Sorry, Charlie, Apple is not going to make a cell phone for camera enthusiasts. It's going to make a cell phone that generates widespread enthusiasm.

 

[Max(IT)]

While it is true that the amount of megapixels doesn't equal a better picture, it does seem to help with getting more details. I've seen this first hand from a Galaxy S4 with a 13MP sensor vs. my iPhone 5. It took much more detailed pictures than my 5 ever did. Still hoping that Apple will move up to 13MP and keep it at that. Seriously the only thing I miss from that horrible (IMO) S4.

Megapixel are a measure of QUANTITY, not QUALITY.
S4 Camera isn't any better than iPhone 5 in my opinion.
A better sensor is MUCH BETTER than more megapixel.
The question is: will it really be a better sensor ?

 

[Renzatic]

In this thread, megapixels become the new marketshare.

This thing I like that doesn't have as much of a stuff the other guys have don't matter none cuz insert reasons here.