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iPhone 6 shortcomings
- Thread starter jimbo1mcm
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For me the smaller battery is a pain I wish apple would change. There's not an android worth switching currently, but keeping an eye on the upcoming note and new moto devices. Wish apple would stay a little thicker and use much larger batteries. Charging my iPhone multiple times a day gets annoying and really diminishes the battery life without being able to switch out a new battery.
I agree on the thickness. I feel the 5/5s is already a little to thin for comfort in the hand. And the rumor is that the phone will be even thinner. Which makes me mad cause that means they're taking away possible space for a large battery, which no one can deny the iPhone desperately needs. Also, its time for Apple to stop skimping on RAM. I feel like even with light uses this iPhone 5s is held back by the amount of RAM. The A7 is a great CPU with lots of headroom for years to come but I doubt we'll ever really get to see its longevity. The lack of RAM will shine more than the power of the CPU I feel.
Android's SD card implementation leaves a LOT to be desired. I'd much rather buy a 32GB phone and store documents/media in the cloud since I am fortunate to always have a wicked fast data connection that is faster than read/write speeds on typical SD cards.
Good-by
PS: Why did you bother to tell this to a bunch of strangers that don't give a hoot ? Plenty of Android users jumping ship to come to Apple anyway
A lot of people who proclaim themselves to be hardware "experts" whine at the lack of 2 or even 3GB RAM on iPhones. But on old phones, it's almost never a lack of RAM that slows them down, it's the old mobile GPU and CPU that really bring things to a crawl. More RAM wouldnt do much on an old iPhone 4.
Even if you add more RAM, in a few years you'll still be stuck with an old DRAM architecture, old clock speed, old CAS latency, etc.
It's a LOT more complicated than this hyper-simplistic notion of adding another gig of RAM.
Also, iOS is VASTLY more efficient in memory management than Android is. At boot, your typical iOS device will be using about half to a quarter the amount of memory that the Galaxy S5 will be using. There are many reasons for this, but mainly, iOS is much more streamlined and lacks the huge amount of bloatware that Samsung throws at their phones.
iPhones just don't need a large amount of RAM like Android phones do because iOS is just a lot more efficient. And that's a good thing because it saves on power drainage that an extra RAM chip or two would need. And the vast majority of applications use less than 75mb of memory.
Don't kid yourself. These high-end android handsets don't actually need 3GB of RAM. Not only do they not need 3GB of memory now, they won't need it 2 years from now. It was thrown in for mere marketing reasons to fool suckers like you. It's the same reason that Samsung was caught in that benchmark cheating controversy where Samsung phones would mysteriously have 15% higher benchmark scored than rival handsets using the EXACT same processor.
These Android handset makers can't really differentiate themselves by adding more bloatware or gimmicks anymore, so they try to win the spec war by cheating on benchmarks or adding more RAM that no one will ever need or use. And it's working. They've fooled you and a lot of other people in this thread very well.
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Agree the 5s is so thin it almost needs a case for a better feel in hand. Tablets are ok being paper thin, phones don't need to be
iPhone 6 shortcomings
Thats because RAM isn't utilized for speed, its utilized for keeping apps in suspended states in a mobile OS which can inevitably lead to speed increase just not the same way as a PC/Mac. It is VERY easy to see the performance difference between 512 mb RAM iOS device and 1 gb RAM iOS device when it comes to apps reloading.
I can open tapatalk on my 4S, and if I take a picture with the camera app tapatalk will reload from the start. That happens every single time and its because the camera app had to push tapatalk from a suspended state. Do the same on my iPad 3 with 1 gb of RAM and it does not close tapatalk. If the 4S had 1 gb of RAM it would operate like the iPad 3 does.
It wasn't until the iPhone 5S that apple utilized DDR3. So the iPhone 5, iPad 3, and iPad 4 were already using more of the slower RAM. These aren't things we need to speculate, they actually exist. Again performance isn't effected on that level, its maintaining apps in suspended states without having to reload them.
Free RAM is wasted RAM. But I rebooted my iPhone and Xoom (Android tablet, I don't have a 5S to check) and iPhone is using 388 mb of RAM on boot and the Xoom is using 299 mb of RAM. Maybe you meant to said iOS is more efficient then Android + TouchWiz?
4S at boot (note its still searching for signal)
Xoom at boot (excuse the picture quality)
The second an app needs to reload any savings to the battery from lack of RAM is used by the CPU to reopen the app. Thats a blanket statement anyway, assuming you are still talking about the S5 according to Anandtech the battery easily last longer and the phone charges faster compared to the 5S. Why does anything else matter? You say below a poster is a sucker but you are the one comparing on paper specs not real world between these devices.
If an Android device with 3 gb of RAM doesn't need it then you should never see less then 1 gb of free RAM right? However you do. Everyone mobile OS can utilize more RAM, apps will just sit in RAM suspended longer before being pushed out by another app.
It it was about selling specs then S5 (Samsungs flagship smartphone!) would have 3 gb of RAM but it doesn't. And Samsung and other manufactures would have been bragging about how they have been using DDR3 RAM for quite sometime.
.....
One merely needs to compare app behavior of a 512 mb iOS device to a 1 gb iOS device to realize there is a benefit of that increase. Then use common sense to realize 1 gb isn't the magic number that is pointless to exceed. We will be seeing more RAM in iOS devices before long anyway so its a pointless discussion.
Thats because RAM isn't utilized for speed, its utilized for keeping apps in suspended states in a mobile OS which can inevitably lead to speed increase just not the same way as a PC/Mac. It is VERY easy to see the performance difference between 512 mb RAM iOS device and 1 gb RAM iOS device when it comes to apps reloading.
I can open tapatalk on my 4S, and if I take a picture with the camera app tapatalk will reload from the start. That happens every single time and its because the camera app had to push tapatalk from a suspended state. Do the same on my iPad 3 with 1 gb of RAM and it does not close tapatalk. If the 4S had 1 gb of RAM it would operate like the iPad 3 does.
It wasn't until the iPhone 5S that apple utilized DDR3. So the iPhone 5, iPad 3, and iPad 4 were already using more of the slower RAM. These aren't things we need to speculate, they actually exist. Again performance isn't effected on that level, its maintaining apps in suspended states without having to reload them.
Free RAM is wasted RAM. But I rebooted my iPhone and Xoom (Android tablet, I don't have a 5S to check) and iPhone is using 388 mb of RAM on boot and the Xoom is using 299 mb of RAM. Maybe you meant to said iOS is more efficient then Android + TouchWiz?
4S at boot (note its still searching for signal)
Xoom at boot (excuse the picture quality)
The second an app needs to reload any savings to the battery from lack of RAM is used by the CPU to reopen the app. Thats a blanket statement anyway, assuming you are still talking about the S5 according to Anandtech the battery easily last longer and the phone charges faster compared to the 5S. Why does anything else matter? You say below a poster is a sucker but you are the one comparing on paper specs not real world between these devices.
If an Android device with 3 gb of RAM doesn't need it then you should never see less then 1 gb of free RAM right? However you do. Everyone mobile OS can utilize more RAM, apps will just sit in RAM suspended longer before being pushed out by another app.
It it was about selling specs then S5 (Samsungs flagship smartphone!) would have 3 gb of RAM but it doesn't. And Samsung and other manufactures would have been bragging about how they have been using DDR3 RAM for quite sometime.
.....
One merely needs to compare app behavior of a 512 mb iOS device to a 1 gb iOS device to realize there is a benefit of that increase. Then use common sense to realize 1 gb isn't the magic number that is pointless to exceed. We will be seeing more RAM in iOS devices before long anyway so its a pointless discussion.
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That's simply not the only aspect of RAM. RAM is used to keep EVERYTHING "within arms length" for the CPU, including system resources, so that when you are zooming around the home screen it doesn't have to take time to grab each icon out of the relatively slow flash storage. RAM is used for everything, not just saving the state of an app.
And no, it's not easy to see the different between 521mb RAM and 1GB RAM. What makes a far bigger difference is the MUCH slower processor on an older device, the much slower GPU, etc. etc. etc. in the last few years, mobile processors have exploded in power whereas RAM has had a slight bump from DDR2 to DDR3. It is well known that DRAM is progressing far slower than processor technology is, especially in mobile devices. Thus, while having 1GB of RAM is certainly better, in iOS it is almost completely unnoticeable except in two situations where it may shave 3 seconds off of opening an app or switching tabs in safari. These are stretch cases, where the vast majority of users will not care, but mostly only power-users will notice. The problem is, by the time the device gets old enough that RAM is no longer enough, they are already suffering much more from the slower processor and slower GPU. These have a much greater effect on the usability of the device. Adding more RAM would not help with this, the device will still be slow after a few years have passed. Thus, adding more RAM does not increase lifespan of the device.
I'm afraid you're mistaken.
The Xoom is not reporting actual system RAM usage on that screen, it's reporting JUST google's services. If you look at that as well, you will see it is far higher.
It wasn't until the Galaxy S4 that Samsung started using DDR3 either, and again, it's not a huge difference. What matters MORE in terms of app save states is how the developer has coded the app to make use of Apple's suspended state delegates, the actual level of RAM doesn't really matter until you start getting in to video game territory, in which case, again, the CPU and GPU have much greater importance. Apple tends to kill off big RAM hogging apps from the background NOT because of memory, but more because of the power draw. Apps that tend to use a lot of memory in the background also tend to use a lot of energy as well, and it's best to close the app completely as soon as possible.
Again, you're mistaken. It's reporting only Google's services (which is exactly what it says), it's not reporting OS RAM usage. When you actually add that in to the picture, you will see it's using a lot more than 299mb.
That's simply not true. It doesn't take very much power at all to read from flash storage. And furthermore, an app in a background state uses a LOT of power compared to an app in a suspended state.
...that might be because the battery is physically enormous
if the iPhone's battery was the same size, the iPhone would last a LOT longer than the S5 simply because it's more efficient in everything. Unlike Samsung, Apple custom designed the A7 chip and nearly everything else, and they custom designed the OS to be specifically and perfectly optimized for the hardware. Yes, and they'll be drawing more power than it needs to. Its just not efficient and the vast overwhelming majority of users never even need 1GB of RAM. You're making this WAYYY too simplistic. You're trying to say that adding more RAM has no consequences on power usage, but it does. And then you act as if making the phone physically bigger is a solution to this, and maybe for YOU it is. But a lot of people need/want a smaller phone and the iPhone is perfect for them as it is.
Samsung purposely cheated on benchmarks for EXACTLY this reason - the spec war.
And how are you testing this?? I'd be interested in hearing your methodology of separating the benefit of a faster GPU/CPU from more RAM in cold-hard numbers. My point is, by the time that the amount of RAM in an iPhone becomes insufficient as the phone gets older and mobile OS's advance, the GPU and CPU have become similarly aged and it's useless to add more RAM because it just won't help with the "slowness" that the user experiences.
I'm not pointing at a perfect number for the amount of RAM. It's dynamic depending on the phone, the time, and the OS. Because iOS is vastly more efficient in memory management than Android is, it just doesn't need as much. If you would look at how much memory your Xoom is actually using, you'll see the truth.
Yay, another thread where someone leaves iOS because they don't like a phone which won't even be introduced for another couple of months
That said, goodbye from the iOS community.
Agreed.
Personally I'll wait until it's released before dissecting the aesthetics and what's under it's hood.
Until then I see no point.
Agreed. All of the angst in the OP about a phone that doesn't even exist yet.
iPhone 6 shortcomings
That is correct..... My entire post is describing the benefits of more RAM.
I posted a very obvious example of why more RAM is noticeable. I'm surprised you'd disagree and then change the subject back to speed, which I keep saying you'll see little to no difference with more or less RAM.
Ok, you've obviously never used Android, that is becoming blatantly apparent. I'll post the full screen below.
Incorrect again. They were using DDR3 since before the Nexus 10 which was released Nov of 2012. DDR3 is faster and uses less power, while I agree its not a jump like DDR4 is its still better for a mobile application, any application. All of which I guess is beside the point.
Of course the amount of RAM matters for more then video game territory. I really don't want to make a video of showing what I've already stated (tapatalk closing because I take a photo) but I will if you really want. While a game will use up more RAM so will multiple other apps. Like safari for example.
You say iOS is efficient at managing memory then say you close apps as soon as possible? Thie apps in the multitasking are the apps that are suspended unless they have the appropriate API's to keep running (background refresh, music players, GPS, etc).
You are making an awfully large point about this, again I'll post a pic below.
I'm not convinced you know how iOS works, and I'm not trying to be rude about that. Or we are just not on the same page.
I'm referring to apps in the multitasking tray (viewed by double clicking the home button) without the appropriate API's (music players, background refresh, GPS, etc) they are all suspended (suspended by iOS 10 seconds after going to the background). So yes, obviously an app running in the background like a music player or GPS app is going to be using more power then a suspended app.
Knowing that, say you open multitasking and see safari. If it has stayed suspended and you open it everything is exactly like you left it and loads instantly, minimal power used. If it was pushed out of RAM and you open it, it reloads the app and the webpages and thus using more power.
Follow?
Again you are comparing specs. The battery is enormous, it also charges faster then an iPhone 5S does. So real world the battery is better in every way it can be. What else do you want it too do?
Again effect on battery due to more RAM is minimal. We've already seen it in other devices and Apple devices alike. The iPhone has seen 4 ever increasing sizes in RAM.
I didn't say anything about phone size. Don't really know what you are on about there. It would appear we are about to get a larger iPhones anyway. Be upset with Apple about that, I didn't tell them to do it.
That was over blown in my opinion (I don't care for Samsung passed their TV's). They whitelisted apps and webpages to ramp the SOC to 100% regardless of power savings. Basically all they did is come to the race prepared to run. You can get that same performance out of the device when when it needs it thats why I consider that overblown. But to each their own, I'll agree it was a shady tactic at the very least.
Holy cow man. FORGET SPEED. Throw SPEED out the window, we aren't comparing that. YOU are the one that keeps bringing that up and I keep trying to shut it down. I'm said "app behavior" nothing to do with speed.
And its extremely easy to test. With two devices one with 512 mb of RAM and one with 1 gb RAM. Open apps until prior apps start to close. EASY AS THAT. You'll find 1 gb RAM devices can hold onto apps MUCH longer then 512 mb of RAM.
Which iPhone do you have btw? I might be able to figure out a way I can show you what I'm talking about by comparing to my 4S.
Drum roll please.
Actual Xoom memory usage....Satisfied to keep bringing that up to be wrong?
The picture you were referring to was just zoomed in so it was easy to read. Google services are using about 20 mb of RAM. Of course anyone that has used Android would have known that right?
That is correct..... My entire post is describing the benefits of more RAM.
I posted a very obvious example of why more RAM is noticeable. I'm surprised you'd disagree and then change the subject back to speed, which I keep saying you'll see little to no difference with more or less RAM.
Ok, you've obviously never used Android, that is becoming blatantly apparent. I'll post the full screen below.
Incorrect again. They were using DDR3 since before the Nexus 10 which was released Nov of 2012. DDR3 is faster and uses less power, while I agree its not a jump like DDR4 is its still better for a mobile application, any application. All of which I guess is beside the point.
Of course the amount of RAM matters for more then video game territory. I really don't want to make a video of showing what I've already stated (tapatalk closing because I take a photo) but I will if you really want. While a game will use up more RAM so will multiple other apps. Like safari for example.
You say iOS is efficient at managing memory then say you close apps as soon as possible? Thie apps in the multitasking are the apps that are suspended unless they have the appropriate API's to keep running (background refresh, music players, GPS, etc).
You are making an awfully large point about this, again I'll post a pic below.
I'm not convinced you know how iOS works, and I'm not trying to be rude about that. Or we are just not on the same page.
I'm referring to apps in the multitasking tray (viewed by double clicking the home button) without the appropriate API's (music players, background refresh, GPS, etc) they are all suspended (suspended by iOS 10 seconds after going to the background). So yes, obviously an app running in the background like a music player or GPS app is going to be using more power then a suspended app.
Knowing that, say you open multitasking and see safari. If it has stayed suspended and you open it everything is exactly like you left it and loads instantly, minimal power used. If it was pushed out of RAM and you open it, it reloads the app and the webpages and thus using more power.
Follow?
...that might be because the battery is physically enormous
Again you are comparing specs. The battery is enormous, it also charges faster then an iPhone 5S does. So real world the battery is better in every way it can be. What else do you want it too do?
Again effect on battery due to more RAM is minimal. We've already seen it in other devices and Apple devices alike. The iPhone has seen 4 ever increasing sizes in RAM.
I didn't say anything about phone size. Don't really know what you are on about there. It would appear we are about to get a larger iPhones anyway. Be upset with Apple about that, I didn't tell them to do it.
That was over blown in my opinion (I don't care for Samsung passed their TV's). They whitelisted apps and webpages to ramp the SOC to 100% regardless of power savings. Basically all they did is come to the race prepared to run. You can get that same performance out of the device when when it needs it thats why I consider that overblown. But to each their own, I'll agree it was a shady tactic at the very least.
Holy cow man. FORGET SPEED. Throw SPEED out the window, we aren't comparing that. YOU are the one that keeps bringing that up and I keep trying to shut it down. I'm said "app behavior" nothing to do with speed.
And its extremely easy to test. With two devices one with 512 mb of RAM and one with 1 gb RAM. Open apps until prior apps start to close. EASY AS THAT. You'll find 1 gb RAM devices can hold onto apps MUCH longer then 512 mb of RAM.
Which iPhone do you have btw? I might be able to figure out a way I can show you what I'm talking about by comparing to my 4S.
Drum roll please.
Actual Xoom memory usage....Satisfied to keep bringing that up to be wrong?
The picture you were referring to was just zoomed in so it was easy to read. Google services are using about 20 mb of RAM. Of course anyone that has used Android would have known that right?
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--You put a case on. But you know there are 70 more billion people on this planet other than you.
--G3's 2560x1440 res does not make much if any difference than current 1080p screens. Plus, LG keeps adjusting the refresh rate of the screen to save battery. You like that too.
--Yeah, the lack of YOUR liking something does not necessarily mean it's shortcoming
--Wireless charging? Seriously? What's the point for that currently?
--Just take a portable charger if you want extra charger. 128G iPhone may exist.
--Is the iPhone 6 announced yet?
Never claimed to be an expert and I never said that speed was an issue in regards to the amount of RAM in the phone. The reason I say the small amount of RAM in the phone is an issue is because of using multiple apps at once. I often see the 5s having to reload apps when I'm switching between three of them. And I'm not talking about big apps like games and such. I'm talking Safari, Tweetbot and things like that.
Thank you for putting in the effort on all this. He keeps bringing up speed even though we've never connected speed to the amount of RAM the phone has. Thankfully you understand why I say more RAM would be better rather than him saying the 1Gb is fine. Of course 1GB is fine. But it would make for a better experience if the phone had more. When they announced that the A7 was 64bit I figured they had added more ram since software running on a 64bit system will typically use more RAM. Then I learned they didn't increase the amount, but the speed of the RAM instead, which yeah, that's nice. But its not what I was hoping for myself.
I don't have the time to reply to your entire post, but I will ask, can you do basic math?
Your own screenshot says your Xoom has 449mb RAM free. But it has 1024mb (1GB) total RAM. Thus, it's ACTUALLY using 575mb. Most android devices don't show how much RAM is being used up by the OS itself. And yes...I HAVE used a lot of Android devices. Apparently more than you
Thus, I restate my point. Android is less efficient in memory usage than iOS is. iPhones just don't need as much RAM in the first place.
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Keeping these apps wired in memory drains the battery. Apple, and a lot of other phone makers, made the calculation that the benefit of another chip of RAM would not be worth the cost in both dollars and battery life compared to the minor benefit.
Also, you guys keep bringing up app save states as such an enormous issue. I've frankly never actually noticed it on my 5. You guys might want to call AppleCare
I'd like to know what you are or aren't doing that is causing you to experience such short battery life.
Many people, including myself, are able to use our iPhone through out the day and only plug it in to charge at night when when we go to sleep. Or a little top off of the battery late afternoon.
Several times a day seems a little excessive. It makes sense if you're doing something like streaming music or video 24/7 via cellular data instead of wifi. But if you're just using your phone like an average consumer, then I would take it in to an apple store and have them run a diagnostic to determine what the problem is.
I don't get why people are not being objective to the OP. He said something important, no notification light as of now. That's important to some people. My HTC One M8, I just got, should have it working w/ a green light, but it doesn't with my phone. I had the S5, but that overheated too much. There are some things that need to be standard by the market shaping it. No flagship should be sitting on 1 GB of RAM in 2013, but iPhone 5S did just that. I don't care if 2 is unnecessary, but it helps the user experience for sure because heavy power users could appreciate the extra space. The difference between my HTC One M8 and my old S5 was 800 mb/1.8 GB of RAM and 1.2/1.8 GB of RAM. That extra space helps with performance. TW hiccups more than Sense.
I don't have the time to reply to your entire post, but I will ask, can you do basic math?
Your own screenshot says your Xoom has 449mb RAM free. But it has 1024mb (1GB) total RAM. Thus, it's ACTUALLY using 575mb. Most android devices don't show how much RAM is being used up by the OS itself. And yes...I HAVE used a lot of Android devices. Apparently more than you
Thus, I restate my point. Android is less efficient in memory usage than iOS is. iPhones just don't need as much RAM in the first place.
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Keeping these apps wired in memory drains the battery. Apple, and a lot of other phone makers, made the calculation that the benefit of another chip of RAM would not be worth the cost in both dollars and battery life compared to the minor benefit.
Also, you guys keep bringing up app save states as such an enormous issue. I've frankly never actually noticed it on my 5. You guys might want to call AppleCare
Okay so you're using it on a 5 which apps running on your 5 use less RAM then they do on my 5s. And unless we sat next each other using our phones for an hour we wouldn't see what our use cases are in terms of what apps we use and how many we use. I've never seen someone be so against having more RAM. But that's enough for me on this one. Good day, sir.
Who is against more RAM? There is a law of diminishing returns. Do you know what that value is? I don't. Apple builds their phones for the majority, not the 1% minority who strain the hardware. For the majority the phone is speced out properly, I would think apple thinks.
It's up to apple to decide if more ram is appropriate in the iphone 6. I'm sure they will bump it a bit, but by how much is anybody's guess.
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You get to choose your own phone. If a notification light is a deal breaker, iphone is not for you. If 3 gb ram is a necessity, iphone is not for you. No big deal.
The discussion comes in at the edge cases of super-power users. Not average joes like myself.
I thought my Lumia 1520 would easily beat my old iPhone 5 and the upcoming iPhone 6 because of its specs and features. Turns out even an iPhone 4S is 10x better than the Lumia just because of the user experience (in my opinion at least).
I am not against more RAM per se. I am for a good balance, enough RAM to keep a few apps in RAM but not so much RAM that battery life suffers for little benefit. Wired apps in memory use a surprising amount of energy and it's just not optimal. There's more factors to consider than this overly simplistic "more RAM = better multitasking" because it just isn't the only factor. iOS is more efficient with memory management to start with, so it just doesn't need nearly as much RAM as android devices do.
When your phone only has a flaky micro-USB port to charge, you'll be thankful for wireless charging. Seriously, whoever thought that was a good connector needs a good flogging.
I've never yet had an apple connector or cable fail, neither 30 pin or lightning, and my older apple devices which I've handed down to my kids get treated very rough. The tablet and phone that I have with micro-USB though have both had the ports fail, and countless cables that have died. They only get used by me and treated gently. Micro-USB is a disaster, so when you have a device with it, you need wireless charging or your device will be a brick within a couple of months.
I'm very glad that Apple have resisted the rest of industry and have so far refused to change to micro-USB.
I had a blackberry for almost four years. Not a one issue with the micro USB. Of course there are no issues with the lightning connector.