iPhone 6: Worth the upgrade? Not at all.

[xSinghx]

Not at all. A straw man is an argument brought up by someone else to make your point look silly. But you brought it up, quite squarely. Then edited your post when people called you on it, so it didn't look so silly.

This little "missed detail" is actually a very big thing. It explains a lot about where you're coming from. You clearly haven't seen an iPhone 6 in person nor held it in your hand. And that does reduce the credibility of your argument.

How are you to know what the "bulbous" edges feel like? And by the way, they aren't "bulbous." Bulbous implies that the edges are fatter and thicker than the rest of the body. They are not.

How are you to know that a bigger screen is impractical? Again, you haven't held it in your hand and haven't used it. I for one, was an opponent of huge screens. But I kept an open mind and actually tried one out before making my final judgement. Now that I've used an iPhone 6 Plus, I'm gladly willing to say my opinion was wrong. And by the way: it's those same "bulbous" edges you complain about (but have never felt) which make the larger screen quite manageable. It also makes a 5 and 4 series phone feel clunky and retro... and not in the good way.



Except no one "chased down" anything. You offered an opinion, quite loudly, and professed that your opinion is the reason why the iPhone shouldn't exist at all. You chastised the design - again, without actual knowledge and experience - and professed it as authoritative. Did you expect everyone to just nod their heads and agree with you? That would've made for a very boring and short-lived thread.

People disagree, and when you come in with a brash tone, people are going to respond in kind. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.

A straw man distorts an argument by by presenting it in the weakest possible light, to quote from wiki since so many in this thread seem to need it "attacking a straw man...creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition." In this case reducing my post to a mistake about a sim card slot does exactly this.

The change to my post is noted on the edit - there was nothing covert about it - and the change happened minutes after I posted it after I sat back down from getting a drink. It is fully available for users to see should they actually read it, but given how much the rest of your post gets wrong I guess it's unsurprising I should have to correct this.

I'm not sure why you would profess I haven't touched an iPhone 6. Your repetition on the point is ridiculous. I have. I made reference to it. Perhaps you like responding to my posts more than reading them.

The phone's edge does protrude is rounded, and fat and bulbous is completely appropriate in describing it. If you like this - good for you - but the "bigger is better" design is certainly more a samsung-ing of the design than in line with Apple the company whose mouse has been one button from the start (even the newer touch sensitive mouse is more a compromise than a conversion) and whose screen size remained the same for so long only to get bumped twice in recent memory.

I've already posted on my expectations with regard to disagreement vs insult. You can read them.

On using the word "spamming". You should know the difference between the metaphoric quality of something and the actual thing itself. Your attempt to correct this and straw man are equally petty.

 

[ucfgrad93]

Singh, so far you're ignoring comments about your subject feelings, and focus on only those slamming you for the sim card, so I'll go line by line for you



This is your thesis, we'll see if this is true or not based on your argument.



I came to the 4s from an HTC Evo, so I felt like the 3.5" was too small, so yes, the 4" was a step up. However, does a step up mean that it is as big as people want? A 3.7" phone would've been a step up from a 3.5". However, if you like the 4", then it would be a improvement upon a hypothetical 3.7".

Sure, 4.7" isn't welcome to people who want only a 4". However, I myself am one of many who have wanted a phone bigger than a 4" for years. I've been waiting for a 4.5-4.7" iPhone since the iPhone was at 3.5". Sales numbers indicate I am not the only one. However, they do indicate that you are incorrect on this point. There is still a 4" iPhone, the iPhone 5s, and people are picking the 6's instead.

I do not agree that the 6 is awkward to hold. Maybe you do, which is fine, you can stick to a 4". This is a subjective point, so don't say everyone feels the same way, that's obviously not true.



Agreed on this point. 16Gigs is too small. And I agree again, that it's kept that way to nudge people to the 64GB. I have a 64GB now, would've upgraded to a 32GB had it been standard. Apple gets an extra $100 from me, which is in their interest. They're in this to make money. Good job on them finding ways to make more. Sucks for us.



It would've been nice to not have a protruding camera. However, not a deal breaker or very significant, especially since the majority of people have cases.

Bulbous edges is ridiculous. hold the phone if you haven't. It's very nice in the hand, and it does not bulge out. It's necessary to have the screen go to the edges as it does, and have the 'endless pool' effect.



Highly disagree here. People haven't cared about NFC, but past consumer preferences are not always indicators of future preferences. People did not care much about mp3 players before the iPod, people did not have a mass desire for smartphones before the iPhone. Leaders in industry can give people what they want, in a package they didn't know they wanted. Apple Pay provides the most secure method of making payments in the history of the market. It's more convenient than a wallet. The key issue will be merchant adoption. If they don't follow (i'm not an Apple homer, so I won't assume they do), then yes, this will be a moot feature. However, if they do, and they have business reasons to that I won't go into here, then this could be a major shift in consumer spending habits, security, and fraud prevention moving forward.



Didn't mention earlier cause I figured I'd cover it here: The 6 will absolutely fit in your pocket. I'm not a skinny jeans guy, but my pants are very tight (to the point I've always gotten teased about it), and the 6 and even 6 plus fit just fine in my pants. Unless you're a female, which in case you have a purse/clutch, they should fit in 99% of pants wearers.

Storage: this is only an issue if you can only afford (which I don't believe anyone can only afford the $200 model, and if they can't, then they should be spending money on a more basic/older phone to save money). Buy the bigger model and stop complaining.

Conclusion: Your points are all subjective points, some irrational, some rational personal feelings. Many (millions, by sales numbers) disagree with you. That's ok you don't want the new phones. The solution is not to buy one, and not complain that the offering Apple made doesn't meet your wants.

Excellent post.

/thread.

 

[Mortalias]

I think your mistake likes in implying everyone is upgrading from the iPhone 5S or even the iPhone 5. That is simply not the case. Coming from a 3GS, 4, or 4S is a major upgrade across the board.

NFC support is a great addition as payment systems continue to change and Point of Sale terminals seem to be gaining traction in the U.S., where a major change to the credit card system is desperately needed.

Larger screen sizes are exactly what many consumers wanted in a new device, it's probably one of the largest selling points of any smartphone on the market today.

Anything relating to design is strictly personal preference, so I don't see how that's even relevant.

 

[WilliamLondon]

Ever notice how most all the criticisms of Apple that follow their launches come from people who don't hang out here often, or ever?

 

[deeddawg]

People did not care much about mp3 players before the iPod, people did not have a mass desire for smartphones before the iPhone.

There were plenty of mp3 players before the ipod arrived. Apple made it simple to use and mass consumer adoption took off. Wonder how the Zune Tattoo guy is doing, BTW? 😎

There were plenty of smartphones before the iPhone. Blackberries, Treos, etc. Apple made them simple to use and mass consumer adoption took off.

I don't remember there being much in the way of tablets before the ipad, a few hesitant attempts at slates and convertible laptops. So the idea was out there but never sufficiently well executed to make any headway. The netbooks tried to fill that need but again were fraught with tradeoffs. Along came the ipad. Lots of naysayers claiming there wasn't a point, people wouldn't adopt it since they already had computers or phones, etc.

Apple doesn't always have the Midas Touch, but it seems they do have an ability to enter a space and find a way to make it accessible to the common person. I suspect contactless payments will be similar. Merchant adoption will be greatly helped by the existing push towards EMV and the retailers who have signed up as adopting it. If you were a store or chain in competition with one that's announced it will accept ApplePay, when you have to update your terminals for EMV capability would you choose versions with NFC capability or would you not choose it? You're already having to change them out...

 

[teknikal90]

This is probably the first phone from Apple that is a genuine step backwards. It has all of what is not needed or wanted and none of what is.

Screen Size:
The iPhone 5 was already a step up in screen size and there is now the iPhone 6 Plus for those that need a PDA to call a phone. The bump in screen size for iPhone 6 is not only not wanted by people who are perfectly content with a phone that fits in their front pocket but also a waste of money that could have gone towards other features like 32gb of storage for the base model. Further it now feels completely awkward to hold in one hand.

Storage:
16gigs of storage for $199? Way to make your phone feel cheap Apple (3yrs ago this was the base storage for the iPhone 5). As the size of iOS grows along with the size of the apps that use it (not to mention space for music and photos), 16gigs really shortchanges your users the "better experience" Apple is claims to offer. Of course the pricing structure is such to not simply nudge users towards spending $100 more for 64gigs of storage but make it almost mandatory for any semi-knowledgeable user. This of course sours the experience of buying a new phone.

Design:
Rounded bulbous edges, protruding camera and rubbery inserts? Is this phone meant to float or something? This is a far cry from the tapered edges of an iMac or the streamlined purity the metal band around the iPhone 4/5 offered. Is a marginally better camera really worth breaking the form? People take pictures with their phone, sure. Do they weigh a marginal spec bump as the reason to buy or not buy, I certainly don't, but that 16gig storage thing - absolutely.

NFC:
Maybe this is a selling point in other countries. In the US most people remain indifferent. There is probably more excitement from people about emojis and custom keyboards than anything dealing with NFC.

So what are the selling points of this phone? It has a new chip, the A8, which of course every year's phone has, and it has a motion chip. Ok that's nice.

So how does my day-to-day experience benefit from this new iPhone? Well it won't fit in a front pocket, I'll probably drop it more because of the awkward size, it doesn't lay flat on a table because of the new pimple-cam, it handicaps itself with small storage, and it looks like a metal biscuit. Is it worth an upgrade?

Not at all.

cool story bro.... lol you and i both know what you're saying is ridiculous and you just trying to justify not upgrading...

 

[HelloMikee]

Yea I have to totally disagree with you. The 6+ is a fantastic phone

 

[xSinghx]

Singh, so far you're ignoring comments about your subject feelings, and focus on only those slamming you for the sim card, so I'll go line by line for you



This is your thesis, we'll see if this is true or not based on your argument.



I came to the 4s from an HTC Evo, so I felt like the 3.5" was too small, so yes, the 4" was a step up. However, does a step up mean that it is as big as people want? A 3.7" phone would've been a step up from a 3.5". However, if you like the 4", then it would be a improvement upon a hypothetical 3.7".

Sure, 4.7" isn't welcome to people who want only a 4". However, I myself am one of many who have wanted a phone bigger than a 4" for years. I've been waiting for a 4.5-4.7" iPhone since the iPhone was at 3.5". Sales numbers indicate I am not the only one. However, they do indicate that you are incorrect on this point. There is still a 4" iPhone, the iPhone 5s, and people are picking the 6's instead.

I do not agree that the 6 is awkward to hold. Maybe you do, which is fine, you can stick to a 4". This is a subjective point, so don't say everyone feels the same way, that's obviously not true.



Agreed on this point. 16Gigs is too small. And I agree again, that it's kept that way to nudge people to the 64GB. I have a 64GB now, would've upgraded to a 32GB had it been standard. Apple gets an extra $100 from me, which is in their interest. They're in this to make money. Good job on them finding ways to make more. Sucks for us.



It would've been nice to not have a protruding camera. However, not a deal breaker or very significant, especially since the majority of people have cases.

Bulbous edges is ridiculous. hold the phone if you haven't. It's very nice in the hand, and it does not bulge out. It's necessary to have the screen go to the edges as it does, and have the 'endless pool' effect.



Highly disagree here. People haven't cared about NFC, but past consumer preferences are not always indicators of future preferences. People did not care much about mp3 players before the iPod, people did not have a mass desire for smartphones before the iPhone. Leaders in industry can give people what they want, in a package they didn't know they wanted. Apple Pay provides the most secure method of making payments in the history of the market. It's more convenient than a wallet. The key issue will be merchant adoption. If they don't follow (i'm not an Apple homer, so I won't assume they do), then yes, this will be a moot feature. However, if they do, and they have business reasons to that I won't go into here, then this could be a major shift in consumer spending habits, security, and fraud prevention moving forward.



Didn't mention earlier cause I figured I'd cover it here: The 6 will absolutely fit in your pocket. I'm not a skinny jeans guy, but my pants are very tight (to the point I've always gotten teased about it), and the 6 and even 6 plus fit just fine in my pants. Unless you're a female, which in case you have a purse/clutch, they should fit in 99% of pants wearers.

Storage: this is only an issue if you can only afford (which I don't believe anyone can only afford the $200 model, and if they can't, then they should be spending money on a more basic/older phone to save money). Buy the bigger model and stop complaining.

Conclusion: Your points are all subjective points, some irrational, some rational personal feelings. Many (millions, by sales numbers) disagree with you. That's ok you don't want the new phones. The solution is not to buy one, and not complain that the offering Apple made doesn't meet your wants.

I applaud the tone throughout your post for taking reasoned stances in your disagreement even if I don't find it that convincing.

However suggesting not to complain about what I find to be the iPhone 6's shortcomings is an absurd proposition. The forum is a playground for news and opinion regardless of how much you may disagree or agree, support or condemn either. It's ironic given how many accuse me of simply wanting agreement when others simply want the same through the silencing of dissent.

To your points:
It's fine you want a bigger phone, my feeling is that the iPhone 6+ handles that quite well and doesn't mandate a bump on the reg iPhone 6 side. Prior to the launch many users of older iPhones were fearful of the "bigger is better" idiom we are now living under. They liked something relatively compact and didn't need giant screens that sacrifice battery life and space. In this case memory and aesthetics were also sacrificed as it turns out. As far as the rounded edges and feeling in the hand I can only say if you have or have used a 4-5s for any length of time the feeling of the iPhone 6 is jarring and detracts.

 

[scaredpoet]

A straw man distorts an argument by by presenting it in the weakest possible light, to quote from wiki since so many in this thread seem to need it "attacking a straw man...creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition."

Now that we've agreed on a definition: Please show where we've brought up a different proposition from the one you brought forth. I see it as we challenged your position head on. You specifically made a claim. That claim was false. To NOT know the claim was false is to reveal the fact that you do not have sufficient knowledge of the topic to base your arguments.

In this case reducing my post to a mistake about a sim card slot does exactly this.

Refuted several times. If anyone is attacking a straw man here, it's you, for insisting that anyone here is personally attacking you when there is no evidence of this.

The change to my post is noted on the edit - there was nothing covert about it - and the change happened minutes after I posted it after I sat back down from getting a drink.

...after several people called you on it. Let's not leave out that inconvenient fact.

It is fully available for users to see

Well, not really, because people don't always look at revision histories. But hey, for someone who thinks it's no big deal, you sure are spending a lot of time justifying your revisions. If it was truly no big deal, why even bother revising?

should they actually read it, but given how much the rest of your post gets wrong I guess it's unsurprising I should have to correct this.

Just because you say something is wrong, doesn't mean it actually is. You seem to forget this a lot.

I'm not sure why you would profess I haven't touched an iPhone 6.

Lack of knowledge of a SIM slot is a pretty big indicator. It's right on the side of the phone. You can't miss it, particularly when observing the edges of the phone that you abhor so much. Unless maybe you didn't actually look at one.

The phone's edge does protrude is rounded, and fat and bulbous is completely appropriate in describing it.

You and I must be looking at different dictionaries then. Or, you've just not seen the phone. On this we'll just have to declare a difference of opinion. Which by the way, does not universally nor automatically mean the design is flawed or inappropriate or undesirable.

If you like this - good for you

I do. So do at least 21 million other people.

but the "bigger is better" design is certainly more a samsung-ing of the design

I disagree on this as well. It takes a LOT of design miscues to be a Samsung, to just size. No Samsung models that I know of, by the way, have rounded edges like the iPhone 6.

than in line with Apple the company whose mouse has been one button from the start (even the newer touch sensitive mouse is more a compromise than a conversion)

Yet another thing that can be debated. Apple has absolutely backtracked on a number of design issues. Remember the puck?

I've already posted on my expectations with regard to disagreement vs insult. You can read them.

I read them. Please read my response to them. Your "expectations" are misguided, based on incorrect definitions.

On using the word "spamming". You should know the difference between the metaphoric quality of something and the actual thing itself.

I also know what a straw man is. Calling someone's disagreement with you "spamming" is a really poor attempt at attacking a straw man.

 

[kilcher]

Screen Size:
The iPhone 5 was already a step up in screen size and there is now the iPhone 6 Plus for those that need a PDA to call a phone. The bump in screen size for iPhone 6 is not only not wanted by people who are perfectly content with a phone that fits in their front pocket but also a waste of money that could have gone towards other features like 32gb of storage for the base model. Further it now feels completely awkward to hold in one hand.

Your opinion does not reflect what is happening in the market. To insinuate the majority of people don't want a larger phone is ridiculous. Just look around at EVERY Android phone purchased in the last 3 years.

I do agree in that Apple should have offered THREE phones - 4" (small), 4.7" (medium), and 5.5" (large). I'm surprised they completely abandoned the 4" market.

Storage:
16gigs of storage for $199? Way to make your phone feel cheap Apple (3yrs ago this was the base storage for the iPhone 5). As the size of iOS grows along with the size of the apps that use it (not to mention space for music and photos), 16gigs really shortchanges your users the "better experience" Apple is claims to offer. Of course the pricing structure is such to not simply nudge users towards spending $100 more for 64gigs of storage but make it almost mandatory for any semi-knowledgeable user. This of course sours the experience of buying a new phone.

In theory, I agree. But Apple is a business and if people will buy a 16GB, then hey, why not. And I give them kudos (again from a business standpoint) on this little scheme they have to make many upgrade to the mid-level 64GB phone. Whoever came up with the 16, 64, 128 structure should get a bonus.

Design:
Rounded bulbous edges, protruding camera and rubbery inserts? Is this phone meant to float or something? This is a far cry from the tapered edges of an iMac or the streamlined purity the metal band around the iPhone 4/5 offered. Is a marginally better camera really worth breaking the form? People take pictures with their phone, sure. Do they weigh a marginal spec bump as the reason to buy or not buy, I certainly don't, but that 16gig storage thing - absolutely.

Agree. Let's face it, while not a deal breaker for many people the antannae bands are ugly. If these were on a Samsung or HTC phone they would be LAMBASTED. Protruding camera, while I use a case and it doesn't bother me in the slightest, it just screams of compromise. Apple is THE company that should have found a way to make that work (maybe not as thin, more battery). Reminds me of the 5C and the dotted cases where the letters on the back of the phone showed through, just not the attention to fine details I expect from Apple.

NFC:
Maybe this is a selling point in other countries. In the US most people remain indifferent. There is probably more excitement from people about emojis and custom keyboards than anything dealing with NFC.

Apple Pay is not just NFC. Remains to be seen how well Apple Pay is implemented though.

So what are the selling points of this phone? It has a new chip, the A8, which of course every year's phone has, and it has a motion chip. Ok that's nice.

So how does my day-to-day experience benefit from this new iPhone? Well it won't fit in a front pocket, I'll probably drop it more because of the awkward size, it doesn't lay flat on a table because of the new pimple-cam, it handicaps itself with small storage, and it looks like a metal biscuit. Is it worth an upgrade?

Not at all.

What I had, and loved before, but bigger and better. Amazing screen. Great ecosystem. Amazing camera.

 

[Black Magic]

Here is a link to Apple iPhone 6 and 6+ with very nice images to view. This is where the OP can point out the large rounded edges that he dislikes....

iPhone 6

 

[ET iPhone Home]

This is probably the first phone from Apple that is a genuine step backwards. It has all of what is not needed or wanted and none of what is.

Screen Size:
The iPhone 5 was already a step up in screen size and there is now the iPhone 6 Plus for those that need a PDA to call a phone. The bump in screen size for iPhone 6 is not only not wanted by people who are perfectly content with a phone that fits in their front pocket but also a waste of money that could have gone towards other features like 32gb of storage for the base model. Further it now feels completely awkward to hold in one hand.

Storage:
16gigs of storage for $199? Way to make your phone feel cheap Apple (3yrs ago this was the base storage for the iPhone 5). As the size of iOS grows along with the size of the apps that use it (not to mention space for music and photos), 16gigs really shortchanges your users the "better experience" Apple is claims to offer. Of course the pricing structure is such to not simply nudge users towards spending $100 more for 64gigs of storage but make it almost mandatory for any semi-knowledgeable user. This of course sours the experience of buying a new phone.

Design:
Rounded bulbous edges, protruding camera and rubbery inserts? Is this phone meant to float or something? This is a far cry from the tapered edges of an iMac or the streamlined purity the metal band around the iPhone 4/5 offered. Is a marginally better camera really worth breaking the form? People take pictures with their phone, sure. Do they weigh a marginal spec bump as the reason to buy or not buy, I certainly don't, but that 16gig storage thing - absolutely.

NFC:
Maybe this is a selling point in other countries. In the US most people remain indifferent. There is probably more excitement from people about emojis and custom keyboards than anything dealing with NFC.

So what are the selling points of this phone? It has a new chip, the A8, which of course every year's phone has, and it has a motion chip. Ok that's nice.

So how does my day-to-day experience benefit from this new iPhone? Well it won't fit in a front pocket, I'll probably drop it more because of the awkward size, it doesn't lay flat on a table because of the new pimple-cam, it handicaps itself with small storage, and it looks like a metal biscuit. Is it worth an upgrade?

Not at all.

I'm probably a few here open to reading criticism. Thank you! I like to read both sides, those that love it, and from those, like yourself.

 

[cdaq]

Agreed on this point. 16Gigs is too small. And I agree again, that it's kept that way to nudge people to the 64GB. I have a 64GB now, would've upgraded to a 32GB had it been standard. Apple gets an extra $100 from me, which is in their interest. They're in this to make money. Good job on them finding ways to make more. Sucks for us.

Again, baffling that there isn't outrage when apple make a decision that is bad for the consumer. Instead of FU apple, we get awe shucks darn it you got us again here's another $100. Really is mind boggling. How did apple do it?

 

[xSinghx]

You're posts are simply disingenuous and I'm not interested in correcting all your rhetorical slight of hand after this. None of your debate qualifies as arguing in good faith with the speaker. So I doubt I'll have any interest in conversing with you after this.

Now that we've agreed on a definition: Please show where we've brought up a different proposition from the one you brought forth. I see it as we challenged your position head on. You specifically made a claim. That claim was false. To NOT know the claim was false is to reveal the fact that you do not have sufficient knowledge of the topic to base your arguments.

We don't need to agree on a definition, that IS the definition, regardless of whether you want to accept it or not. As far as claims, I made several all servicing a larger point. One of those claims happened to be wrong and a correction was made. To say this means I "do not have sufficient knowledge of the topic" is a big leap. I would say an exaggeration, distortion, reduction - straw man. The simple fact you keep repeating this shows your stubborn refusal to acknowledge the overzealous nature of your responses and confirms my assertion of you arguing in poor faith.

Refuted several times. If anyone is attacking a straw man here, it's you, for insisting that anyone here is personally attacking you when there is no evidence of this.

Again I have to correct you here. I specifically said attacking me "or the thread." Clearly there are many attacking the thread and many attacking me. If you don't see them it's either because you're not looking or they've been removed. I've received a private message attacking me as well. The posts that aren't private are akin to mike's here:

from mikethebigo

"The steps of cognitive dissonance:
1. I don't see the value in it
2. A lot people seem to like it
3. But I'm a smart guy
4. Everyone else must be stupid or uninformed"

This of course does not engage anything I've said but simply tries to ridicule the speaker - me. So both points about people attacking the thread and the speaker have been substantiated. Whether you choose to acknowledge that is beside the point - I'm not guilty of a straw man.

...after several people called you on it. Let's not leave out that inconvenient fact.

There's no inconvenience it's acknowledged on the original post and in a subsequent post. The only inconvenient thing about it is your desperate attempt to make the totality of my post reducible to a mistake. Again this just points to the disingenuousness by which you're engaging the thread at all as you seem myopic in your approach to it.

Well, not really, because people don't always look at revision histories. But hey, for someone who thinks it's no big deal, you sure are spending a lot of time justifying your revisions. If it was truly no big deal, why even bother revising?

Myopic again. There's no need to look at "revision histories," it's written right there on the post Edit "Reason: Sim Card Slot mistake," it's also acknowledged again (explicitly) a couple posts down when I responded to rolltide. But if you don't read or refuse to acknowledge what's been read I can't help you.

Just because you say something is wrong, doesn't mean it actually is. You seem to forget this a lot.

So far I have good cause to say you're pretty wrong.

Lack of knowledge of a SIM slot is a pretty big indicator. It's right on the side of the phone. You can't miss it, particularly when observing the edges of the phone that you abhor so much. Unless maybe you didn't actually look at one.

Or maybe I just didn't remember and believed incorrectly that it wasn't there? It's true I'm human. 3 times in one post on this issue, it seems to be, not only all you want to talk about, but all you CAN talk about. Trying to cast doubt on whether my claim to have held the new phone, is true or not, is kind of a pathetic attempt to gain standing in the argument. I have no reason to hide what I have or haven't done but I would question this desperate attempt to continually repeat something you've been told is untrue instead dealing with the substance of any of the other points mentioned. I don't see you writing about what a deal 16gigs of storage is for example. But again my characterization of the disingenuousness of your posts seems not only fair but maybe a bit too nice.

You and I must be looking at different dictionaries then. Or, you've just not seen the phone. On this we'll just have to declare a difference of opinion. Which by the way, does not universally nor automatically mean the design is flawed or inappropriate or undesirable.

More casting doubt from you - 4th time. Definitely too nice.

I do. So do at least 21 million other people.

You'll have to unpack this sentiment. Because a lot of people buy something that makes it good? So by parity of reason Justin Bieber makes good music? I guess from this reasoning it must be impossible for a lot of people to spend money on something that's not really worth it? Like all those Michael Bay movies? Pretty weak sentiment given it qualifies as another fallacy (fallacy of mass appeal).

I disagree on this as well. It takes a LOT of design miscues to be a Samsung, to just size. No Samsung models that I know of, by the way, have rounded edges like the iPhone 6.

There was already an increase in screen size with the 5. So yes that in itself doesn't mean much. However now with the continued increase there is really no question that the 6+ and now larger screen with the 6 is to fit in with competition, Samsung being the biggest competitor. The controversy is with you.

Yet another thing that can be debated. Apple has absolutely backtracked on a number of design issues. Remember the puck?

Are you really debating that Apple has a tradition of doing it's own thing regardless of its competitors? Or are you simply trying to again reduce the scope of what I said? Probably the latter.

I read them. Please read my response to them. Your "expectations" are misguided, based on incorrect definitions.

I did read them and I commented on their ignorance of what I said. As is much of the case in much of my post here.

I also know what a straw man is. Calling someone's disagreement with you "spamming" is a really poor attempt at attacking a straw man.

You are conflating (whether through purpose or ignorance) my response directly addressed to you regarding your belief in the correct usage of the word spamming with my characterization of those creating a straw man out of my mistake and repeatedly posting about it. In other words users were metaphorically spamming a straw man with regard to my initial post (clear enough?). Something you are now guilty of as of this post.

I'm sure you'll have something to respond with - but I've given you more than the attention you deserve given you've argued in bad faith by making so many careless mistakes and distortions to what has actually been said.


.

 

[BeeGood]

You are trying way to hard to accomplish a whole lot of nothing.

 

[xSinghx]

Your opinion does not reflect what is happening in the market. To insinuate the majority of people don't want a larger phone is ridiculous. Just look around at EVERY Android phone purchased in the last 3 years.

I do agree in that Apple should have offered THREE phones - 4" (small), 4.7" (medium), and 5.5" (large). I'm surprised they completely abandoned the 4" market.



In theory, I agree. But Apple is a business and if people will buy a 16GB, then hey, why not. And I give them kudos (again from a business standpoint) on this little scheme they have to make many upgrade to the mid-level 64GB phone. Whoever came up with the 16, 64, 128 structure should get a bonus.



Agree. Let's face it, while not a deal breaker for many people the antannae bands are ugly. If these were on a Samsung or HTC phone they would be LAMBASTED. Protruding camera, while I use a case and it doesn't bother me in the slightest, it just screams of compromise. Apple is THE company that should have found a way to make that work (maybe not as thin, more battery). Reminds me of the 5C and the dotted cases where the letters on the back of the phone showed through, just not the attention to fine details I expect from Apple.



Apple Pay is not just NFC. Remains to be seen how well Apple Pay is implemented though.



What I had, and loved before, but bigger and better. Amazing screen. Great ecosystem. Amazing camera.

Nice post. I wasn't insinuating that people don't want a larger phone a lot do (the 6+ is perfect for them probably) but a lot were happy with the compactness of 4-5s as well and they shouldn't be disregarded as you go on to point out. If it's important to acknowledge that there is a market for larger phones then it should be equally important to acknowledge the the market for smaller ones. I would agree with you there should either be 3 sizes or the smaller of the 2 should match the 5s. Probably Apple thought people wouldn't care about a larger base model because in America or perhaps increasingly the world "bigger is better" goes unquestioned. To me and many others the 2 are not synonymous.

To your point on the storage I think it undermines the Apple experience. Of the many Apple products I have bought over the years whether on the higher or lower end I never felt the product was handicapped for its job or devalued the experience with the product. With the 6 at 16gigs I can honestly say there's no way not to feel that it does. Apple loves to brag about customer satisfaction. It will be interesting to see how such reduced space on the base model will impact that going forward. It's worth noting the cost to Apple for 16gigs is less than $8. So the question is whether 8 bucks more in profit (possibly depending on other costs) to stay away from 32gigs for the base is worth the cost in customer satisfaction and how much it will increase sales for the 64gig model.

 

[xSinghx]

Ever notice how most all the criticisms of Apple that follow their launches come from people who don't hang out here often, or ever?

Ever notice the snobbery and better-than-thou attitude of those that do?

 

[scaredpoet]

You're posts are simply disingenuous and I'm not interested in correcting all your rhetorical slight of hand after this.

Translation: I have no way of justifying my own rhetoric after having been called out on it.

None of your debate qualifies as arguing in good faith with the speaker.

Based on what standard? Yours? It's already been established that's not a very good standard.

So I doubt I'll have any interest in conversing with you after this.

That's fine. Discuss and debate in good faith, that's all I ask.

We don't need to agree on a definition, that IS the definition, regardless of whether you want to accept it or not.

You brought up something that was incorrect. You were called on it. That's not a straw man.

To say this means I "do not have sufficient knowledge of the topic" is a big leap.

A SIM tray, and a phone's having one, is a fundamental aspect of how it operates, and communicates with the cellular network. If it's a big deal to you that a phone has one, so much so that you'd make a big deal if a phone didn't have one, then the first thing you should've done when you allegedly picked up an iPhone 6 is said "hey, where's that all-important SIM tray?" And guess what? You would've found it. Because it's in the exact same place it's been since the iPhone 4.

Not noticing this detail, and then going off complaining about it not being there, when it actually is there, absolutely brings into question what other details you have wrong.

I would say an exaggeration, distortion, reduction - straw man.

The only exaggeration, distortion, reduction I see here is that you felt it necessary to base part of your case on something that wasn't true. And then when called on it, you minimized it, and then distorted your own representation of your argument by editing out that part of your post such that most people wouldn't see it.

The simple fact you keep repeating this shows

It shows that you're focusing on minutiae only when it suits you, and choosing to gloss over it when it doesn't. If the argument doesn't work for you, change the argument. Again, credibility... big issue in this case.

Again I have to correct you here. I specifically said attacking me "or the thread."

How does one "attack the thread" exactly? Do threads have feelings? Was the thread offended somehow? how does one apologize to a thread? If the thread (not you, the thread) wants to PM me and tell me I hurt its feelings, I'll be more than happy to issue a sincere apology.

Or... by "attacking," do you mean that people posted ideas that you didn't agree with? Because, that's one component of a discussion... expressing different viewpoints. That's not an attack.

Clearly there are many attacking the thread and many attacking me.

Show me an example of someone calling you names, or insulting you. Just one. Remember: you and "the thread" are different entities here. And disagreeing with you or pointing out that something you said was actually incorrect is not a personal attack or insult.

If you don't see them it's either because you're not looking or they've been removed.

Conspiracy theories. Nice.

I've received a private message attacking me as well.

Shame on that person. Report him to the mods.

The posts that aren't private are akin to mike's here:

from mikethebigo

"The steps of cognitive dissonance:
1. I don't see the value in it
2. A lot people seem to like it
3. But I'm a smart guy
4. Everyone else must be stupid or uninformed"

Yeah, see... this isn't a personal attack. This is a summation of what you yourself have said in this thread. If anything, it makes a statement that maybe YOU are personally attacking other people for disagreeing with you.

There's no inconvenience it's acknowledged on the original post and in a subsequent post.

Right, right, but you know, getting basic facts wrong when they're part of your argument is not a big deal in your eyes. Yeah, you've made your opinions on that clear.

The only inconvenient thing about it is your desperate attempt to make the totality of my post reducible to a mistake.

A fundamental mistake. One that if you knew enough about the phone to comment competently on its design, you'd know. That's the point. You've formed an opinion on the look and feel of something you clearly haven't even touched or held in your hand or seen in person.

Myopic again. There's no need to look at "revision histories,"

Uhm, you're the one who brought them up, that people could look upon your gaffes like an open book by viewing revision histories. But now you've flip-flopped again, and that's not a big deal, people totally shouldn't do that. Got it!


Back to #SIMgate:

Or maybe I just didn't remember and believed incorrectly that it wasn't there?

Are you really in the habit of looking at something and forgetting a detail SO MUCH that it made you made enough to rant about how flawed a thing for not having it? What else have you forgotten about your experience? And how does your flawed memory make you credible enough to comment on anything you may or may not remember?

Because a lot of people buy something that makes it good?

Generally, when a whoooooooole lot of people stand in line, wait weeks, scour the black market all to buy something, and even post threads on forums about how horrible a company is because they couldn't get their thing right now... I tend to think that's a generally accurate indicator that the product is pretty darned good in the eyes of a lot of people.

It's not a necessity to own an iPhone 6. No one is putting guns to these people's heads. There are most certainly alternatives out there on the market. Would 21 million people buy a no compulsory, expensive product if they felt it was rubbish?

So by parity of reason Justin Bieber makes good music?

Oh look! A straw man! 🙂

Okay, I'll play. For screaming teenage girls, Justin Bieber was apparently good enough for them. I don't like Justin Bieber's music, but you don't see me posting tirades on Justin Bieber fan forums about how no one should ever listen to his music, ever. Nor do I claim he's a flawed individual because he's missing a thumb, when he's clearly not. And I definitely don't start crying that people are personally attacking me or "my thread" when the Beiber fans pile on and disagree with me.... because disagreement is kinda what I'd expect under those circumstances.


So I do none of that. Instead, I let the market decide. I buy artists that I like, because I can. And I don't buy music I don't like.

There was already an increase in screen size with the 5. So yes that in itself doesn't mean much. However now with the continued increase there is really no question

There's plenty of question. That's why we're debating this int he first place.

that the 6+ and now larger screen with the 6 is to fit in with competition, Samsung being the biggest competitor. The controversy is with you.

I'm not the one posting my opinions as universal to all, and then feeling "attacked" when anyone dares to disagree.

Are you really debating that Apple has a tradition of doing it's own thing regardless of its competitors? Or are you simply trying to again reduce the scope of what I said? Probably the latter.

Neither. I'm pointing out that your argument lacks merit. Again.

You are conflating (whether through purpose or ignorance) my response directly addressed to you regarding your belief in the correct usage of the word spamming with my characterization of those creating a straw man out of my mistake and repeatedly posting about it. In other words users were metaphorically spamming a straw man with regard to my initial post (clear enough?). Something you are now guilty of as of this post.

Yeah, I'm just let that wall of text there speak for itself. This is what your argument has been reduced to. It makes no sense.

 

[evaporateddwarf]

Again, baffling that there isn't outrage when apple make a decision that is bad for the consumer. Instead of FU apple, we get awe shucks darn it you got us again here's another $100. Really is mind boggling. How did apple do it?

Bad is relative. It's not anti-competitive, it is not violating consumer rights, it's just more money. If it were a bad deal, I wouldn't pay the extra $100.

I work in business, and my job is to connect big data to sales/marketing. This isn't isolated to apple. The business world is there to maximize profit (shareholder value), please their customers, and keep their employees happy. I am not inherently unpleased by an extra $100, and i don't think it's a ripoff. I wish i could get 64GB for the price of 16GB, but that doesn't mean it's wrong of Apple to do so.

----------

There were plenty of mp3 players before the ipod arrived. Apple made it simple to use and mass consumer adoption took off. Wonder how the Zune Tattoo guy is doing, BTW? 😎

There were plenty of smartphones before the iPhone. Blackberries, Treos, etc. Apple made them simple to use and mass consumer adoption took off.

I don't remember there being much in the way of tablets before the ipad, a few hesitant attempts at slates and convertible laptops. So the idea was out there but never sufficiently well executed to make any headway. The netbooks tried to fill that need but again were fraught with tradeoffs. Along came the ipad. Lots of naysayers claiming there wasn't a point, people wouldn't adopt it since they already had computers or phones, etc.

Apple doesn't always have the Midas Touch, but it seems they do have an ability to enter a space and find a way to make it accessible to the common person. I suspect contactless payments will be similar. Merchant adoption will be greatly helped by the existing push towards EMV and the retailers who have signed up as adopting it. If you were a store or chain in competition with one that's announced it will accept ApplePay, when you have to update your terminals for EMV capability would you choose versions with NFC capability or would you not choose it? You're already having to change them out...

I agree that those things existed prior, however, as I noted, there wasn't a mass market for them. People weren't clambering for their 128MB small mp3 players with terrible audio and battery life, and only a niche were purchasing the behemoth alternatives. As you said, NFC has been around, and Apple is using a mix of great timing, great technology and their market brand equity to drive change/evolution from merchants and banks.

 

[techspin]

Well it won't fit in a front pocket, I'll probably drop it more because of the awkward size, it doesn't lay flat on a table because of the new pimple-cam, it handicaps itself with small storage, and it looks like a metal biscuit. Is it worth an upgrade?
Not at all.

Didn't read all the responses, but you're kidding about the phone not fitting in front pockets, right? The entire phone is thinner than the 5S and the edges make it easier to insert, if anything.

Even if you dislike the entire design, your descriptions are ridiculous. Maybe you just love pimples and biscuits. Is it worth the upgrade?

Sim card slot.

 

[Jimmy James]

Storage. Yay, 128 GB.

 

[Black Magic]

Translation: I have no way of justifying my own rhetoric after having been called out on it.



Based on what standard? Yours? It's already been established that's not a very good standard.



That's fine. Discuss and debate in good faith, that's all I ask.




You brought up something that was incorrect. You were called on it. That's not a straw man.



A SIM tray, and a phone's having one, is a fundamental aspect of how it operates, and communicates with the cellular network. If it's a big deal to you that a phone has one, so much so that you'd make a big deal if a phone didn't have one, then the first thing you should've done when you allegedly picked up an iPhone 6 is said "hey, where's that all-important SIM tray?" And guess what? You would've found it. Because it's in the exact same place it's been since the iPhone 4.

Not noticing this detail, and then going off complaining about it not being there, when it actually is there, absolutely brings into question what other details you have wrong.



The only exaggeration, distortion, reduction I see here is that you felt it necessary to base part of your case on something that wasn't true. And then when called on it, you minimized it, and then distorted your own representation of your argument by editing out that part of your post such that most people wouldn't see it.



It shows that you're focusing on minutiae only when it suits you, and choosing to gloss over it when it doesn't. If the argument doesn't work for you, change the argument. Again, credibility... big issue in this case.



How does one "attack the thread" exactly? Do threads have feelings? Was the thread offended somehow? how does one apologize to a thread? If the thread (not you, the thread) wants to PM me and tell me I hurt its feelings, I'll be more than happy to issue a sincere apology.

Or... by "attacking," do you mean that people posted ideas that you didn't agree with? Because, that's one component of a discussion... expressing different viewpoints. That's not an attack.



Show me an example of someone calling you names, or insulting you. Just one. Remember: you and "the thread" are different entities here. And disagreeing with you or pointing out that something you said was actually incorrect is not a personal attack or insult.




Conspiracy theories. Nice.



Shame on that person. Report him to the mods.



Yeah, see... this isn't a personal attack. This is a summation of what you yourself have said in this thread. If anything, it makes a statement that maybe YOU are personally attacking other people for disagreeing with you.



Right, right, but you know, getting basic facts wrong when they're part of your argument is not a big deal in your eyes. Yeah, you've made your opinions on that clear.




A fundamental mistake. One that if you knew enough about the phone to comment competently on its design, you'd know. That's the point. You've formed an opinion on the look and feel of something you clearly haven't even touched or held in your hand or seen in person.



Uhm, you're the one who brought them up, that people could look upon your gaffes like an open book by viewing revision histories. But now you've flip-flopped again, and that's not a big deal, people totally shouldn't do that. Got it!


Back to #SIMgate:



Are you really in the habit of looking at something and forgetting a detail SO MUCH that it made you made enough to rant about how flawed a thing for not having it? What else have you forgotten about your experience? And how does your flawed memory make you credible enough to comment on anything you may or may not remember?




Generally, when a whoooooooole lot of people stand in line, wait weeks, scour the black market all to buy something, and even post threads on forums about how horrible a company is because they couldn't get their thing right now... I tend to think that's a generally accurate indicator that the product is pretty darned good in the eyes of a lot of people.

It's not a necessity to own an iPhone 6. No one is putting guns to these people's heads. There are most certainly alternatives out there on the market. Would 21 million people buy a no compulsory, expensive product if they felt it was rubbish?



Oh look! A straw man! 🙂

Okay, I'll play. For screaming teenage girls, Justin Bieber was apparently good enough for them. I don't like Justin Bieber's music, but you don't see me posting tirades on Justin Bieber fan forums about how no one should ever listen to his music, ever. Nor do I claim he's a flawed individual because he's missing a thumb, when he's clearly not. And I definitely don't start crying that people are personally attacking me or "my thread" when the Beiber fans pile on and disagree with me.... because disagreement is kinda what I'd expect under those circumstances.


So I do none of that. Instead, I let the market decide. I buy artists that I like, because I can. And I don't buy music I don't like.




There's plenty of question. That's why we're debating this int he first place.




I'm not the one posting my opinions as universal to all, and then feeling "attacked" when anyone dares to disagree.




Neither. I'm pointing out that your argument lacks merit. Again.




Yeah, I'm just let that wall of text there speak for itself. This is what your argument has been reduced to. It makes no sense.

Great response! The OP should just leave it alone at this point. It's getting quite embarrassing to be honest. You just stuck a fork in him. Again.

 

[jfyrfytr25]

Don't waste your time with a thread you don't take seriously. It's simply petty on your part.

NO ONE takes this thread seriously....LOL. see you spew your opinion as fact and expect everyone to swallow it as gospel.

here is what me and MILLIONS! of others think:

the most beautiful design they have done. love the rounded edges and glass.

Love the increase in size(s) Both. I think the 4.7 is the perfect size.

NFC. the reason the US is indifferent is due to lack of support. Just like Apple did with iTunes and the music companies, they are poised to push the tech into the mainstream payment choice by bridging the gap between device and infrastructure. not even google has been able to get as many financial institutions on board with mobile payments. Apple has accomplished more lately in that regard than has been made ever.

Don't like the phone OK. don't buy it

 

[Surf Monkey]

I don't find the need to chase down threads I disagree with to insult the speaker and the thread - I suggest you guys try to do the same.

If you can't make a contribution move along to a thread you can.

Such irony contained here. One might suggest that you took your own advice? If you hate the 6 why come to a Mac fan site to bash it? Did you think you'd get a positive reaction?

 

[cdaq]

Bad is relative. It's not anti-competitive, it is not violating consumer rights, it's just more money. If it were a bad deal, I wouldn't pay the extra $100.

I work in business, and my job is to connect big data to sales/marketing. This isn't isolated to apple. The business world is there to maximize profit (shareholder value), please their customers, and keep their employees happy. I am not inherently unpleased by an extra $100, and i don't think it's a ripoff. I wish i could get 64GB for the price of 16GB, but that doesn't mean it's wrong of Apple to do so.

Oh no, from the business POV I completely agree. It's what I was marveling at. Business is always at odds with the consumer, their interests are at odds by definition. What's interesting is that apple has found a way to offer less and charge more. But what's jaw dropping baffling is that those same consumers DEFEND the business for providing less for more money. It's completely opposite from everything I was taught in my economics classes.