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Im just going with what currently exits, and I already use the lighting port to power analogue headphones, why would apple add analogue capabilities to the lighting port?

Wait..... lets turn this around, how is removing the 3.5mm better for the consumer? If you can demonstrate that the removal results in a better Sound quality at the same price point, you may have a point. If Headphones are going to cost more, and have no better SQ, how do i benefit?

AS a CONSUMER.....I can demonstrate that I will need to spend extra money to use the iPhone 7, it will be inconvenient, and apple will get $$ out of me, as I will at least need adapter, And I put money on the DAC in the adapter being inferior to the one in the 6S, therefore, inferior SQ.

how does it cost less when you have to either buy and adapter or lighting headphones? therefore....either way apple makes more money..... its also impossible to loose the 3.5mm jack in my iPhone, but easy to loose an adapter, or buy a few, one for work and home etc.

Please demonstrate a scenario where apple does not make money out of this move.......People who already have BT.... well they do not care.....iphone 7 adds nothing to them, tech in their headphones is the limiting factor.


Many scenarios in which it would cost Apple more, e.g., Apple provides new lightning headphones with 3.5 adapter with new iPhone, or Apple provides new headphones and sells adapter at cost. We could go on all day, but I think the point is made.
 
Anyone else think this will be such a disaster that the headphone jack will come back on the next iteration of the iPhone?
 
It's not mocking you. And Apple fans are some of its biggest critics. It's simply pointing out that there is an unhealthy aspect in your life when you get wrapped around the axle over a rumor of something that is or isn't going to be added to a product. Most people are able to share their opinion, disagreement, etc., without anger and vitriol. Or name calling. When you can't, when you find yourself personalizing every decision a company makes, those are warning signs. MacRumors has, like Twitter, all too often been a gathering place for some pretty angry, disaffected people. I guess it explains why a few people, who have some obvious disdain of Apple would spend so much time on a site for Apple enthusiasts.
Unhealthy?

Seems pretty healthy to let off a little steam on an MB, than to ones family/friends.

When people have been invested, figuratively and literally, in a company who's products are major part of people's lives(phone, computer, tablet, etc...) for many hours a day, there is a sense of disappointment and even anger, when that same company knowingly turns it's back on them.

When it's the minority(floppy disks) or very seldomly used(CD-rom), it's a move to the future, and few are really inconvenienced. But when it's the most ubiquitous connector in the world, then that's a whole other story.

People are adverse to change, and downright grumpy, when it's NOT for an good reason, what-so-ever.

What if your favorite restaurant changed it's menu to mostly items you don't like? What if you favorite radio station changed formats? What if your favorite TV show jumped the shark? etc... You're telling me that your would have ZERO emotional reaction to that? I call bull.
 
if it's water proof it will sell for sure

Advertising water resistance is a veritable can of worms. People don't or won't understand the levels of water resistance nor will Apple be able to prove that it's standard, guideline or recommendation was exceeded.

How many people will come to Apple with water damage from taking it to the beach and getting pummelled by surf or something and saying "but you said it was waterproof"!

Any improvements to resistance Apple likely won't advertise in my opinion, just like they didn't with the 6s which was shown to be more resistant than the 6.

So this takes away yet another reason or benefit Apple can market as a counter to losing the headphone jack.
 
A friend of mine just asked me how are they going to plug in a microphone into the iPhone if they remove the headphone jack. I guess that's where the new dongle will come in.
 
Suggest you do some research on BT audio, your statement is factually very very incorrect. I give you credit for your debates with everyone , but you need to stick to facts.

How how.... Can BT be superior to wired in sound quality ? look....it cannot .... Maybe in a distant future... It might be EQUAL. End of the day there will be always a wire to the headphones no matter what...


Last month BT overtook wired headphones in sales revenue for the first time. New ones are released almost every day. Many of those already have as good or better sound than the existing ear buds.
 
Im just going with what currently exits, and I already use the lighting port to power analogue headphones, why would apple add analogue capabilities to the lighting port?

Wait..... lets turn this around, how is removing the 3.5mm better for the consumer? If you can demonstrate that the removal results in a better Sound quality at the same price point, you may have a point. If Headphones are going to cost more, and have no better SQ, how do i benefit?

AS a CONSUMER.....I can demonstrate that I will need to spend extra money to use the iPhone 7, it will be inconvenient, and apple will get $$ out of me, as I will at least need adapter, And I put money on the DAC in the adapter being inferior to the one in the 6S, therefore, inferior SQ.

how does it cost less when you have to either buy and adapter or lighting headphones? therefore....either way apple makes more money..... its also impossible to loose the 3.5mm jack in my iPhone, but easy to loose an adapter, or buy a few, one for work and home etc.

Please demonstrate a scenario where apple does not make money out of this move.......People who already have BT.... well they do not care.....iphone 7 adds nothing to them, tech in their headphones is the limiting factor.
You were trying to argue, "my idea is reasonable, so therefore it is fact." That's not how facts work. If you want to now switch to discussing which ideas are more likely to happen, that's a different discussion.
 
You were trying to argue, "my idea is reasonable, so therefore it is fact." That's not how facts work. If you want to now switch to discussing which ideas are more likely to happen, that's a different discussion.

Let's wait till its announced , and we can pick this up Based on facts.
 
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Last month BT overtook wired headphones in sales revenue for the first time. New ones are released almost every day. Many of those already have as good or better sound than the existing ear buds.

Completely wrong. There is currently no lossless Bluetooth codec, so any existing Bluetooth earbuds (even aptX Bluetooth, which Apple doesn't and won't ever support) will always sound worse than equivalent wired buds. And just add to that the issue of EMI and RFI noise, dropouts, the inconvenience of having to charge your wireless earbuds and the risk of them running out of juice during an important call.
 
Last month BT overtook wired headphones in sales revenue for the first time. New ones are released almost every day. Many of those already have as good or better sound than the existing ear buds.

It's cause they cost so much more .

Existing ear buds are really bad, so I agree there
 
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Last month BT overtook wired headphones in sales revenue for the first time. New ones are released almost every day. Many of those already have as good or better sound than the existing ear buds.
While I agree BT 4.0+ sound quality is not really a problem, all things considered, sales revenue is not a good metric since the average BT headsets cost a lot more than equivalent (quality wise) wired ones.

This whole 3.5mm jack removal controversy is fascinating to watch unfold, regardless of whether it'll actually end up happening this year. I sort of wish the tech sector got together and standardized a more modern/efficient audio connector. Something shallow and magnetic (along the lines of iPad Pro or Moto Z smart connectors) would work wonders for mobile devices.
 
Only way this would make sense for me is if you are getting rid of all plugs and going completely wireless. Get rid of lightning and headphone jack. Wireless charging and wireless connections. Don't think this will happen therefore this decision doesn't make sense, at least to me.
I think totally wireless is in the iPhone's future. I think they have decided to take the hit on earphones now to nudge the industry toward wireless audio that is more convenient and better quality than what's available now. By the time they remove the Lightning port, wireless audio will already be a nonissue for most users.
 
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So we put fake speaker holes in the bottom for looks and symmetry, and we leave the giant pimple surrounding the camera lens? LMFAO.
How did you manage to get a copy of Jonny Ive's keynote address?
 
While I agree BT 4.0+ sound quality is not really a problem, all things considered, sales revenue is not a good metric since the average BT headsets cost a lot more than equivalent (quality wise) wired ones.

This whole 3.5mm jack removal controversy is fascinating to watch unfold, regardless of whether it'll actually end up happening this year. I sort of wish the tech sector got together and standardized a more modern/efficient audio connector. Something shallow and magnetic (along the lines of iPad Pro or Moto Z smart connectors) would work wonders for mobile devices.


The sales trend of BT is what counts. They already are nearly one in five sales, and revenue has been growing each month to the point they have now overtaken wired. That's why manufacturers are cranking out new ones with increasing frequency and soon they will be majority of sales.

*Apple is already putting BT 4.2 into the iPhone 6 and up and it is "up to 2.5x faster speeds and up to 10x greater data capacity over over 4.0 as well as better privacy, security, and power efficiency." BT 5.0, available this fall, has taken 4.2 and
  • quadrupled the range
  • doubled the speed
  • increased data broadcasting capacity by 800%

Like wired keyboards, wireless is taking over, and soon folks will see what Apple has been up to.
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It's cause they cost so much more .

Existing ear buds are really bad, so I agree there


Common misperception is that all BT headphones cost "so much more." Top sellers are under $30. That's why they are taking over and when BT 5.0 comes out this fall. They will swamp wired.
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Completely wrong. There is currently no lossless Bluetooth codec, so any existing Bluetooth earbuds (even aptX Bluetooth, which Apple doesn't and won't ever support) will always sound worse than equivalent wired buds. And just add to that the issue of EMI and RFI noise, dropouts, the inconvenience of having to charge your wireless earbuds and the risk of them running out of juice during an important call.


You've got to read closer. There are undeniably some top quality BT headphones that sound superior to many of the wired headphones out there, including the Ear Buds.
 
Falling behind in display and camera quality. iOS also isn't as smooth and reliable as it used to be. The price has remained the same or increased, while the quality has dropped...
Camera quality has improved every year. Has camera quality of competitors improved faster? Possibly but not all have improved that noticeably. Display quality is still up there too but they might need a resolution bump to compete in the VR space. As far as smooth and reliable, I don't know what that even means. What modern smartphones aren't smooth and reliable these days?
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Defending it? Hardly. I think it's stupid for Apple to remove the 3.5 jack for cosmetic reasons. They've always gone with vanity design over function.

It's all about VANITY design. The older iPhones with two speakers hiding the microphone and keeping the 3.5 Jack never was an issue to me as long they functioned properly.

Face it. Jony and Tim are the problem behind this decision. Thinness is NOT always better and I don't give a crap about the future idea of a paper thin phone that folds that one Apple fan here was smoking on about in one thread. Seriously. That is not a practical approach to product design.

The iPhone 4 thickness was fine and had practicality to hold it while texting. The thinner it gets, the harder and more awkward it gets to text with your hand. It gets really weird.
Please go on about how a 5 year old phone design was just fine. We all know phones will be bendable, paper thin and have no headphone jacks in the near future. Trying to slow progress is silly. Apple's gotten us this far by making it thinner and faster every year. They still have a long way to go so I trust they won't release something so thin or fragile that it can't be held and used normally by normal people.
 
Common misperception is that all BT headphones cost "so much more." Top sellers are under $30. That's why they are taking over and when BT 5.0 comes out this fall. They will swamp wired.

people buying BT have no idea what BT standard their phone or heaphones are. A very very small minority who follow tech will buy headphones due to BT 5.0, more likely they will just be upgraders.

Wired will not get swamped .
 
How about we wait until September to find out what benefits and costs this move will have.

I don't want to have to replace my current headphones.
I don't want a dongle.
I don't want to be unable to charge and listen to my phone at the same time.

What could the benefits be for me?
 
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1. Who cares about stereo speakers on such a small device? Maybe for increased total volume?

2. If they don't use the second speaker space. Why on earth make holes just for show? Is that Apple like? Never. Flat stupid I would say.
 
1. Who cares about stereo speakers on such a small device? Maybe for increased total volume?

2. If they don't use the second speaker space. Why on earth make holes just for show? Is that Apple like? Never. Flat stupid I would say.

The best speaker placement without any argument is, top and bottom of the device.
When playing back Movies/Video's and the vast majority of games the phone is in landscape orientation, and with a large phone, speakers at either end, can give a noticeable effective stereo effect.

If you are just playing music when the phone on your desk, then, 2 speakers should always give a better overall sound than one at one end also.

There really can be no argument for saying 1 speaker at one end is in any way better, one at each end is obviously superior for sound output.

Now, you can argue of course how those speakers are placed.

On the back (I hate that layout)
On the sides (better than on the back, but still not sending the sound to the users ears)
On the front (Without question the best location to send the best sound when you are facing the device)

I understand however that cosmetically some people do not like speakers on the front (where they should technically and naturally/obviously be) so function wins over form/quality on that one.
 
We will see.
Lately, there seem to be too many compromises when it comes to new Apple devices, i.e. no ports, but dongles, no AUX, but dongle (if true), no second speaker, but holes (if true)...
 
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This does I'm sorry to say smack of what those really really cheap low end hifi (not really hifi) plastic music box's sometimes used to have on them.

They only used one speaker, but they used plastic molding shapes, to put grills/holes etc, in other areas of the plastic casing to make it look like it had more speakers than it did.

A long long used trick to use plastic on the outside, perhaps with some fancy paint/chrome on the plastic to make something really cheap look like it was more expensive, and get sales as looking good on the shelf.

AMSTRAD in the UK back in the 1980's/1990's were kings at this. They looked at what was on the market, at say £300, got some cheap internals, then with the clever use of plastic molding, made it look a bit, like the £300 item, but sold theirs for £150

Happy customers who did not know anything more than, it looks expensive, and yet it's really cheap, and it works.
 
I agree, mind you is that not what a designer is about?
He should be free to submit as many designs as he like, it would then be someone elses job to say, "nice, but it’s unusable”.
Good question, I'm not sure how industrial design works, but I'd assume they balance usability and looks.
 
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