iPhone-alikes: miniOne, F700, LG Prada

[Stella]

Yep! But I believe the battery will last longer than two years, or be replaced by my warrenty, and it most likely will cost less than $75.

In other news....

... I replaced the battery in my old cell phone last year...
- The battery cost less than $35
- I could replace it myself without needing to read instructions off the internet
- I didn't need any tools to open up the battery compartment
- The battery replacement process took less than 30 seconds!
- it was truely 'user replaceable' and very end user friendly!
- the previous battery lasted for just over 2 years and gave the phone plenty of talk / stand by time - and still a smartphone.

( ^ re: iPhone if its anything like iPod ) .

 

[cbud]

Don't judge every phone as a 6682

I hope your satisfied with your iPhone after you find out how limited it is, and its all just candy eye and half a months rent!

I have had or used many other phones and they perfom very well too. But again, they don't do it great.

Actually, it will be a full month's rent!

Whilst I agree that the iPhone is a good product, but it is nowhere as 'innovative' as people here are pointing it out to be.

I have a Nokia E50 that cost me around $200. It has Symbian 9.1(3rd edition) as its OS.

The first thing that I didn't like about the iPhone was that it won't support third party apps. I have a lot of respect for Steve Jobs, but the whole thing about networks going down because of third party applications is BS. Plain and simple BS.

My $200 phone supports third party applications. I can install Google Maps, Yahoo GO, Yahoo Messenger and MSN Messenger. Heck there are multi-IM messengers for the platform.

There is an application called Fring. I can use the VOIP and IM functionality of Skype AND Google Talk right on my phone. For free. Heck, even OS 10.4.8 on my Mac Mini doesn't have a single app that supports the VOIP functionality of Google Talk.

The mp3 player on my Symbian phone supports AAC, WMA and MP3 songs. I can install a small app to get OGG support.

Videos? I use SmartMovie and DivX that allow me to play 320x240 videos both in landscape and portrait modes. mp4, dix, xvid. The inbuilt realplayer is good too.

Before someone tells me about Safari on iPhone, I'd like to point out that Webkit is pre-installed on my Symbian phone. RSS feeds, AJAX support, multi-window support, Flash support right on the phone. Yes, it renders full pages.
http://s60.com/business/productinfo/applicationsandtechnologies/webrowser/techinfo

If that wasn't enough, Opera is coming out with v9 of its web browser for Symbian. V8.65 is very good, v9 will be better.

I can edit PDF, DOC, XLS files using Quickoffice and OfficeSuite.

As for security and the whole 'network going down' thing, on v9.x symbian phones, applications require a developer certificate to install on your phone. This certificate is provided by Nokia(correct me if I am wrong). You can also get your own certificate, but that will work only on your phone(You have to enter your phone's IMEI no. while getting it signed).

As for the UI, iPhone will have the best UI of all phones. However, Nokia's UI, especially that of its new 9.1 phones is very very good. I have installed a couple of themes, and it looks even better.

Here are some screenshots(Forgive me for using the Vista theme . Vista sucks, but this theme looks really cool on the phone)

The thing that really interests me about the iPhone is its touchscreen functionality. THat is a brilliant innovation The Apple team has again showed that they can do what no one else can do. However, expect for the design and the UI, I do not think that the iPhone is worth paying $499 for. I got a 1 GB kingston card for Rs. 650($10-12).

Nokia does do it well, Symbian is awesome when it comes to installing 3rd party apps. I have pretty much the same set up as you and I am satisfied. But the iPhone is going to do most of that out of the box, no installing or purchasing apps. SmartMovie cost $30, OfficeSuite cost $50, the built in calender and 3rd party calenders don't sync catagories with iCal, internal memory (RAM) is low, etc. SmartMovie is OK, but come on, it is no iPod! Your E50 cost you around $200, add another $100 for the apps, another $20 for memory card, the time to install them...It took me two days to get a DVD movie on my phone (using a Mac) that SmartMovie would play correctly (audio sync issues). I'd rather pay another $100 bucks to not have to worry about all that.

I'm in Helsinki. I believe the nearest Apple Store is in London. Draw your own conclusions.

Offtopic: This is really getting pathetic. Every single nook and cranny in USA has an Apple Store. There are handful of stores in Europe, all of them in the UK. What about rest of us? "You guys don't matter". Well, gee thanks.

Sorry. When will Europe get the iPhone?

 

[Stella]

He can do all of that because there is a 3rd party software library out there.

What happens when you ( or someone ) wants to do something more with their iPhone than just the provided stock applications? You can't - you have to rely on whatever 3rd party controlled software is out there - which will be far more limited in range.

Add $20 for the memory card - fine. But what happens when you've filled up your 4 or 8 gig of memory on the iPhone - you have to start making room - you can't just add more memory or use an additional memory card ( which is slightly awkward - yes ).

Soo my point in this post - "flexibility". iPhone is not particularly very flexible - you get what your given and that is about it, including exclusivity. Buy a full priced phone ( iPhone ) and have it still locked to one carrier. That must be a first in the cell phone world.

What if you wanted to use ICQ MSN, or even, Skype, on your iPhone - well, you can't, Apple may not provide such a multi-messenger client, and may keep it that way. This is one example and not an exhausive list!

Nokia does do it well, Symbian is awesome when it comes to installing 3rd party apps. I have pretty much the same set up as you and I am satisfied. But the iPhone is going to do most of that out of the box, no installing or purchasing apps. SmartMovie cost $30, OfficeSuite cost $50, the built in calender and 3rd party calenders don't sync catagories with iCal, internal memory (RAM) is low, etc. SmartMovie is OK, but come on, it is no iPod! Your E50 cost you around $200, add another $100 for the apps, another $20 for memory card, the time to install them...It took me two days to get a DVD movie on my phone (using a Mac) that SmartMovie would play correctly (audio sync issues). I'd rather pay another $100 bucks to not have to worry about all that.

 

[MacBram]

agreed, its not the same OSX as we know it, the software for iPhone has been purpose built for mobile device and has OSX label slapped on it to give it some association with a very popular and trusted product that many of us use everyday.

and people shall fall for it.

The "not the same OSX as we know it" part will likely be a very different and much more positive reality than the way Windows Mobile or Windows CE differs from Windows for the desktop.

Microsoft basically has to maintain a couple of diff OS's whose only similarity is the word "Windows" in the name. In contrast, it appears the guts of OS X can be ported to different platforms. Afterall, Apple has experience in this area. An article from Roughly Drafted shows how the footprint for OS X can be significantly reduced while maintaining core features. The language files, help files, drivers for hardware, files for drawing multiple windows, etc, etc, make up most of the weight of the desktop OS.

Those concerned about the whole third-party-app issue can read about that on roughly drafted as well. Makes sense.

 

[bigbigmac]

Unlike many people here, I can't say I love iPhone before I can actually try it out myself.

OSX is great on my MBP, but how it works on a phone is still an unknown.

People say Multi-Touch is great, but will it allow single-hand operation?

To be honest, if you have spent some time in Japan and (to a lesser extend) other parts of Asia, you'd find that although the iPhone is pretty and innovative in certain areas (e.g. UI), it lacks massively in functions. Jobs said it's 5 years ahead of any phones, but I'd say that it's at least 2 years behind a typical phone that you can find in Japan. For years, Japanese have been using their phones for:

- watching live TV and video
- downloading music
- high speed web access/browsing
- editing documents
- remote controlling home appliances
- playing online games
- video calls
- reading ebooks
- GPS nativagtion
- taking pictures
- recording good quality video
- banking
- shopping
- working as an e-wallet (paying for transportations, vending machines and other small transactions)
... and many more!

Also, for those people who say the Samsung F700 is a copycat, I read from Gizmodo that the UI for the F700 is indeed designed by Adobe for Samsung, and is based on Flash. It also feature VibeTonz which gives you tactile feedback when you type on the screen.

As good as Apple is, you can't just write off other players in the mobile phone market.

 

[cbud]

He can do all of that because there is a 3rd party software library out there.

What happens when you ( or someone ) wants to do something more with their iPhone than just the provided stock applications? You can't - you have to rely on whatever 3rd party controlled software is out there - which will be far more limited in range.

Add $20 for the memory card - fine. But what happens when you've filled up your 4 or 8 gig of memory on the iPhone - you have to start making room - you can't just add more memory or use an additional memory card ( which is slightly awkward - yes ).

Soo my point in this post - "flexibility". iPhone is not particularly very flexible - you get what your given and that is about it, including exclusivity. Buy a full priced phone ( iPhone ) and have it still locked to one carrier. That must be a first in the cell phone world.

What if you wanted to use ICQ MSN, or even, Skype, on your iPhone - well, you can't, Apple may not provide such a multi-messenger client, and may keep it that way.

I found this 'flexibility' to not work to my satisfaction, but I understand why others would not like the iPhone because they can't install some 3rd party app. I don't use ICQ,MSN,Skype etc. But if it works for you and you don't see the benifits of the iPhone, then fine, don't buy one. But for me, the iPhone appears to have features I cannot find elsewhere. Is it perfect? No. But its imperfections don't matter to me as much as the imperfections of other phones and that's the bottom line.

 

[jhedges3]

Every single phone I have owned have "just worked".

I'm guessing it's not a fair comparison though.

If all of the phones you’ve owned had nearly matching functionality and general specs as the iPhone you’d have a point, but I’m assuming they didn’t.

 

[Digitalclips]

I'm sorry, there is no way Apple ripped off the Prada phone. Apple has been working on the iPhone for 2 years.

I'll also add that I'm not at all surprised with the shameless rip off attempts of the iPhone. Don't any of these companies have any pride? Why can't other people innovate and come up with their own ideas instead of just trying to ride Apple's genious? It's really starting to piss me off!!!

And it has been going on for well over 30 years. I doubt IBM would have rushed that piece of junk called an IBM PC (I was an an Apple and PC micro dealer back then) into the market but for the Apple][ .. and from then on Apple (or rather Steve - nothing really happened between his leaving and returning at Apple) has been the R&D department for many, many companies.

I am sure Steve has become used to it and plans accordingly.

I found this 'flexibility' to not work to my satisfaction, but I understand why others would not like the iPhone because they can't install some 3rd party app. I don't use ICQ,MSN,Skype etc. But if it works for you and you don't see the benifits of the iPhone, then fine, don't buy one. But for me, the iPhone appears to have features I cannot find elsewhere. Is it perfect? No. But its imperfections don't matter to me as much as the imperfections of other phones and that's the bottom line.

Right on. Let me give an illustration of an average cell phone user who is not a computer geek ... my wife. Every six to 12 months or so she gets some kind of upgraded Phone from her provider. It can be weeks before she has figured out how to change ring tones, get text messages and deal with all the features. Not that she is dumb, she is simply very busy with her real work and hasn't the time to learn the new way the UI is on each new phone the same day she gets it. Mostly the phone is from the same company yet it is totally different in its UI. It is this very fact that for many moving to a smart phone hasn't happened, if a straight forward phone's UI is so totally crappy and unintuitive they stay clear of a more complex and more features so called smart phone.

Enter the Mac of Phones ... it is to a phone what a MacPlus was to an IBM PC running DOS. Simple, elegant. Can it do everything...? maybe not but frightening it isn't. I think many will buy them for the reason that they just know that the UI will be logical, obvious, straightforward and intuitive.

 

[radio893fm]

ROTFL.

Some of the initial posts are a hoot!

"Apple didn't rip off other manufacturers"...
( which I agree with, due to development time )

But if another phone immediately ( give or take a few months ) comes AFTER iPhone, then Company X has ripped off the iPhone, or is an iPhone clone - never that the iPhone is a clone of another!! I'm pointing out the double standards going on...

Just to give some open minded perspectiveness:



- there are phones with:
* 4gig of memory! YES
* OSX like Widgets!! YES ( Yahoo mobile client for Symbian )
* Advanced Web browsers - YES
* Plays movies and TV in wide screen - YES ( including DivX etc )
* Photo displaying - YES
* As nice GUI - No! ( ofc not!, yet )

You could look at it the other way -

Does iPhone have :
- open platform development for 3rd party developers ? No
- GPS? - No
- Expandable memory / removable memory ? No
- Subsidized by carriers - thus cheaper - No!
- 3G support? No!
- non-exclusivity - No
- *user replaceable* batteries - indications are NO (iPod battery is not designed to be user replaceable as a comparison)
- built in radio - No
- Blackberry messaging compatible - No ( customers use this too )
- Video recording camera - No? ( some one confirm )
- Good quality built in ( > 2MP ) camera with flash? No
- VOIP - No
- Speed dial - No ? ( someone confirm )


Oh, and don't tell me that any features that iPhone lacks is an indication that other phones have unnecessary functionality leading to bloat!!!!

Finally someone with some sense!!! I was laughing at the fanboyism in its more pathetic way!

 

[iShak]

The "not the same OSX as we know it" part will likely be a very different and much more positive reality than the way Windows Mobile or Windows CE differs from Windows for the desktop.

Microsoft basically has to maintain a couple of diff OS's whose only similarity is the word "Windows" in the name. In contrast, it appears the guts of OS X can be ported to different platforms. Afterall, Apple has experience in this area. An article from Roughly Drafted shows how the footprint for OS X can be significantly reduced while maintaining core features. The language files, help files, drivers for hardware, files for drawing multiple windows, etc, etc, make up most of the weight of the desktop OS.

Those concerned about the whole third-party-app issue can read about that on roughly drafted as well. Makes sense.

why does everything needs to be compared to microsoft? and while we are at it i think windows CE and mobile editions do their job very well indeed, i am yet to try out version 6 but its very promising, compared to iPhone's OSX (why os 'ten'? why not start from one? it is first of its kind isnt it? just another proof of how apple's using the 'label') which i am yet to see and use ..

to compare something you havent even seen to something that has been around for atleast 5 year is just .. /you-know-what

 

[sionharris]

i've just come up with a brilliant idea for touch-screen phones.

fingerprint security! instead of having to remember codes, just use your fingerprint to log-in, to authorise stuff, etc.

i've seen (part of) the future!

 

[Porco]

i've just come up with a brilliant idea for touch-screen phones.

fingerprint security! instead of having to remember codes, just use your fingerprint to log-in, to authorise stuff, etc.

i've seen (part of) the future!

Except when you're mugged for your phone, they cut your finger off too! Can't wait!

 

[JGowan]

my opinion so far (based on the facts I read/heard so far)

<snip specs and speculations>

The one thing that you didn't include among your list of pros and cons was the Brand and Quality that is Apple. Sure, a knock-off might have a little better camera (if you're counting pixels alone which a higher count doesn't always mean) but is the company you're buying from as reputable as Apple or known for incredible integration and scrutinized details? That's a big factor to consider and one that I think people will certainly consider.

Think about this? Even with FM Tuners, voice recording, bluetooth squirting and other features that the Zune and others have that iPods don't, people still bought Apple's player in record numbers this past holiday seasons. Specs don't always equal the superior solution: a fact I believe many on this thread are losing sight of.

 

[oober_freak]

Nokia does do it well, Symbian is awesome when it comes to installing 3rd party apps. I have pretty much the same set up as you and I am satisfied. But the iPhone is going to do most of that out of the box, no installing or purchasing apps. SmartMovie cost $30, OfficeSuite cost $50, the built in calender and 3rd party calenders don't sync catagories with iCal, internal memory (RAM) is low, etc. SmartMovie is OK, but come on, it is no iPod! Your E50 cost you around $200, add another $100 for the apps, another $20 for memory card, the time to install them...It took me two days to get a DVD movie on my phone (using a Mac) that SmartMovie would play correctly (audio sync issues). I'd rather pay another $100 bucks to not have to worry about all that.

Actually, DivX has come out with its own version of a video player(free). It has the same UI that Smart Movie has, and it plays all the files that Smartmovie does. Even I have faced audio sync issues with Smart Movie. I fixed the sync issue by setting the 'Audio preroll time' to -0.36 seconds.

But I agree with you when you say that the iPhone will do all this in a more elegant way.

I'm a little disappointed that Apple will start selling the phone here only in 2008. I mean come on cell phones are not mp3 players. The two biggest markets for cell phones will get the iPhone only in 2008?!?! It just doesn't make sense.

Sorry. When will Europe get the iPhone?

Yet, Apple will be introducing the iPhone starting with the place, where phones sell the least currently.

In mobile phone sales it's more like Asia>Europe>North America.

Even if Apple does not introduce the iPhone in Asia before 2008, it will start appearing in shady non-legit dealerships within months of it being introduced in America.

It'll mean loss of revenue for those governments and loss of revenue for the local Apple offices, considering everything from Apple sells at 10% premium minimum outside of North America.

 

[bloodycape]

miniOne - nearly a 100% clone as far as I can tell - same design, similar display, specs are a little better (higher resolution, smaller, 3 mega pixels, 2nd cam) - I found no info on capacity, network or price so far - future will tell …

Last I read it was going to be GSM and CDMA phone(WCDMA I think it is called?)

i've just come up with a brilliant idea for touch-screen phones.

fingerprint security! instead of having to remember codes, just use your fingerprint to log-in, to authorise stuff, etc.

i've seen (part of) the future!

yeah if the future was 2004. Hp has had pocket pc devices with finger print scanners that do what you are asking for.

 

[50548]

If you want to talk about double standards, let's talk about virtualization. Microsoft is demonized by the Mac community for stipulating in their user agreement that only the higher end versions of Vista may be virtualized. However they're not given credit for even allowing virtualization. Apple will not. There's no absolute technical reason why OS X can't be virtualized a la Vista (though it may be more difficult with Core Animation, etc.), only that Apple says you may not do it. So for the sake of fairness, we should all turn around and scorn Apple too.

(In my defence, I dislike Microsoft as much as the next guy: I'm a recent switcher and I tell everyone I know to get a Mac if they have any choice at all. But I'm just sayin...)

Sorry, you compare Apples with Bananas here...it's a BASIC paradigm of Apple's business model to prohibit any usage of OS X outside the Mac environment, be it with clones, cheapo PC boxes or virtualization...simple as that.

It CANNOT be compared with MS, which is BY DEFINITION a seller of OSs to any computer out there...so MS has no grounds to forbid virtualization, apart from pure greed...Apple does it because otherwise it will become a software company, which it is NOT, by a long shot.

 

[JGowan]

i've just come up with a brilliant idea for touch-screen phones.

fingerprint security! instead of having to remember codes, just use your fingerprint to log-in, to authorise stuff, etc.

i've seen (part of) the future!

I've seen the other part of the future. The part where a person sticks a gun in your face and tells you to change ownership of the phone to him. Obviously you'll need to swipe your finger to get to that part of the menu, but you can bet that changing ownership to another's fingerprint would be necessary in order to sell the device. In this case, steal the device.

 

[epardilla]

Apple Schmapple

I wish Apple Inc would stop announcing new products that aren't going to readily available in stores... i.e. appletv (Gdmmit I want one NOW---two weeks is too long to wait!) and iphone which to apple's detriment in announcing early has caused an explosion of ifoneys!

 

[Stella]

Apple had to announce it early - due to FFC - any devices submitted become public knowledge. Of course, SJ doesn't want his thunder stolen!

Anyway, it takes time to develop the GUI - so some of these phones are not straight rip-offs from the iPhone - since some where released,too soon after iPhone - for it to be possible, or before the iPhone was announced.

Apple have never ripped off other ideas - NOT! They are just as guilty as other companies.

I wish Apple Inc would stop announcing new products that aren't going to readily available in stores... i.e. appletv (Gdmmit I want one NOW---two weeks is too long to wait!) and iphone which to apple's detriment in announcing early has caused an explosion of ifoneys!

 

[cbud]

...Apple have never ripped off other ideas - NOT! They are just as guilty as other companies.

Please give an example.

 

[Stella]

Please give an example.

Your being serious? You really want examples of where Apple have copied other companies?

Do you seriously believe that Apple have never copied?

One example:

- Watson -> and that became Sherlock ( much dumbed down immitation )


EDIT:
How about searchable File Meta data? BEOS implemented that before Apple, and microsoft announced they were implementating in windows way before Tiger - in fact - Cairo - back in the 1990s.

You'll probably dismiss this - but if Apple had implemented first - the Fan boi's would be crowing - the world was copying Apple because they implemented first, and thus their idea. You see, it also works in reverse too! Apple copying the searchable meta data idea.

 

[cbud]

Your being serious? You really want examples of where Apple have copied other companies?

Do you seriously believe that Apple have never copied?

I do not have any information on the subject, that is why I asked you for an example. One or two will be fine.

 

[bretm]

I do not have any information on the subject, that is why I asked you for an example. One or two will be fine.

Another example: Widgets.

 

[Stella]

I do not have any information on the subject, that is why I asked you for an example. One or two will be fine.

Three provided for you ( thanks BretM )! OK, I was just curious why you wanted to know...

 

[cbud]

One example:

- Watson -> and that became Sherlock ( much dumbed down immitation )


EDIT:
How about searchable File Meta data? BEOS implemented that before Apple, and microsoft announced they were implementating in windows way before Tiger - in fact - Cairo - back in the 1990s.

You'll probably dismiss this - but if Apple had implemented first - the Fan boi's would be crowing - the world was copying Apple because they implemented first, and thus their idea. You see, it also works in reverse too! Apple copying the searchable meta data idea.

Don't assume what I will dismiss. If there is evidence, I will not dismiss it. I may enjoy Apple's products, but it does not mean I will ignore the truth. Thank you for providing me with information. I don't write on these forums to praise Apple, but instead to share ideas and learn more about computer technology.