iPhone App Sideloading Coming to Users in the EU in First Half of 2024

[BaldiMac]

We don't let phone companies decide who people can and cannot call.

Yes, we do. They can cut off service to people who don't pay them.

We don't let energy companies refuse to service certain customers.

Yes, we do. They choose where to offer service and cut off service to people who don't pay them.

Etc. There are certain industries that basically forfeit the right to do whatever they want because these companies are so powerful, have such a widespread reach, and the public is dependent upon their services to function. In this day and age, computing platforms are no different.

Of course they are different than a utility, since you can easily and cheaply switch platforms.

If you like Apple's walled garden, stay in it. I don't understand all of the handwringing and sky is falling drama. Apple will still be vetting apps. You still have your illusion of security. Nothing has changed for you.

That's all fine and dandy right up to the first app that leaves the App Store. And the first time our apps are pirated through the new system.

 

[Analog Kid]

No.

Ok, so we won't be able to continue to buy all of our apps from the App Store. That point is resolved.

That's called freedom. As a developer I can decide where I sell my app.

I love how you defend Apple's right to build a walled garden while simultaneously crapping all over the rights of developers to sell their apps how they wish. Or users to buy whatever apps they wish. In your world, Apple's rights are paramount and the rest of us should just suck it up I guess.

Platforms should be open. Period. It's in the best interest of society.

The platform is the choice. Many more people choose non-Apple platforms than choose Apple platforms. No one is telling developers what platforms they can sell on.

The gatekeeper model that Apple is selling is an authoritarian nightmare waiting to happen. We've already seen what happens when China tells Apple to yank a bunch of apps from the App Store. Apple, being the good China bootlicker that it is, complies. So much for freedom. So much for those values they claim to hold.

So the EU is regulating its citizens for the benefit of the people in China?

No one entity should have a control over a platform that billions of people reply upon every day. That's why we regulate plenty of other industries, to ensure that one greedy pig of a corporation isn't abusing its position.

No one entity, by which I mean the EU, should control what platform billions of people should have to buy into.

 

[pacalis]

What many don't get is that the reason there is $$$ is because it is walled. Devs on the platform benefit from the fact that there are entry barriers coupled with tremendous distribution and consumer trust.

Like everything else, once you create opportunities for lower-quality stuff, the worst and most scalable of them (i.e. the cut-corner types) flood the system and compete with the existing ecosystem. That $$$ go away for Apple and the devs on the platform does not mean that new $$$ are created on sideloading. $$$ go away everywhere.

The app ecosystem is already overwhelming to the consumer. And customers simply aren't asking for this.

 

[JamesHolden]

That's all fine and dandy right up to the first app that leaves the App Store. And the first time our apps are pirated through the new system.

Pirated? Lol. Yes, some apps will leave the App Store. This is the most entitled argument I've ever heard. I'm entitled to my walled garden. I'm entitled to using this app and I'm entitled to it only being available in the App Store. Me me me. Screw the developer. Me me me.

 

[WarmWinterHat]

No one entity, by which I mean the EU, should control what platform billions of people should have to buy into.

They aren't; there is no requirement you buy-in to an alternate store.

You don't have to. All the EU is saying is Apple must let you, if you choose to. If you don't, absolutely nothing whatsoever changes.

 

[gavroche]

Fortunately iOS is designed to sandbox and block apps from accessing things that either Apple or the user don't want an app to access, this shouldn't change with sideloading.

Hopefully. And I don’t wanna get in the while is it good/bad debate, people are quite strongly opinionated… but I’m curious… once a portion of the world can side load… it seems only a matter of time before everyone will be able to. I think people will start to press for it more strongly once they see other people getting to do it and they can’t.

 

[6916494]

I love how you defend Apple's right to build a walled garden while simultaneously crapping all over the rights of developers to sell their apps how they wish. Or users to buy whatever apps they wish. In your world, Apple's rights are paramount and the rest of us should just suck it up I guess.

It is one of many possible business models. And Apple's one is as valid as the Open Source one, or MicroSoft's one, or or or...

Platforms should be open. Period. It's in the best interest of society.

That is your personal opinion. I, for example, do not agree.

The gatekeeper model that Apple is selling is an authoritarian nightmare waiting to happen. We've already seen what happens when China tells Apple to yank a bunch of apps from the App Store. Apple, being the good China bootlicker that it is, complies. So much for freedom. So much for those values they claim to hold.

Apple had of course to comply with Chinese law. Do you think Google did not comply with Android? They just never made their apps so secure that the Chinese government had to interfere.

No one entity should have a control over a platform that billions of people reply upon every day. That's why we regulate plenty of other industries, to ensure that one greedy pig of a corporation isn't abusing its position.

Apple is far away from having a monopole. The monopole in PCs is still with Windows, on the server side with Linux, on the phones with Android, on services they are even further away of being a monopolist, you name the service.

 

[apfelbaum]

Strange how some people here dislike this change which I think is absolutely a good one and hopefully (and probably) will go global sooner or later.

One argument (or opinion to be more exact) is that this is an overreach and in some cases the EU was called being socialism.
Here I‘d say that there is a clear definition for what socialism is (which doesn‘t match the EU at all) and the move to open a closed system for the benefit of developers and customers is a move that originates from and is associated especially with the US when Standard Oil was broken up or the telephone or railway networks were forced open for more competition. Of course this is an interference from the government but merely to keep competition and open markets and in no way socialism.

Furthermore some say that iPhone will be overrun by malware.
This will of course happen to some people but it just comes down to follow the same rules like on PCs and Macs for decades, make sure that you install apps only from trusted sources and you should be fine. If at all most people will install additional stores like Steam or from Epic and I see no reason to trust them less than Apple.

Finally I read with some amusement comments like „luckily I am not living in the EU“ like all hell would break lose here soon 😂
I think in the end this should be clear but this change will only mean, that people can get apps from other places if they want to, but they won‘t have to and if you just happily want to get all your apps from the official AppStore it is unlikely that this will change for 99% of the apps, except for apps that didn‘t exist there before like emulators.

In the end people will just have more choice „and choice is good“ (Steve Jobs)

 

[MilaM]

I'm sensing a market opportunity for Apple here. They should create an iPhone Walled Garden Ultra Edition, where Apple Employees curate the whole experience. Filters in Safari that block pages Apple does not want to be associated with, a messages app that censors you speech (no ugly language), a Photos app that deletes photos of ugly things and ugly poeple, and of course an app store that is super safe. Maybe also censor the News app, no need to see all that misery in the world.

 

[Analog Kid]

They aren't; there is no requirement you buy-in to an alternate store.

You don't have to. All the EU is saying is Apple must let you, if you choose to. If you don't, absolutely nothing whatsoever changes.

So I'll ask you the same question I asked above. Does the law require that anyone selling an iOS app must sell it through the App Store as well? If not, then many people will be required to buy in to alternate app stores.

 

[Analog Kid]

Of course this is an interference from the government but merely to keep competition and open markets

I think the debate here is where the competition is happening. I, and others, would argue that there used to be two competing business models and now there is one. Ironically the minority model was the one destroyed. There is now only one way of thinking allowed in the smartphone market.

 

[BaldiMac]

Pirated? Lol.

What's funny about our work being stolen?

Yes, some apps will leave the App Store.

So you admit you were wrong and that something will change for those of us that want all apps to be vetted by Apple. Hopefully you'll stop repeating that ridiculous argument that nothing will change for us.

 

[WarmWinterHat]

So I'll ask you the same question I asked above. Does the law require that anyone selling an iOS app must sell it through the App Store as well? If not, then many people will be required to buy in to alternate app stores.

There is no requirement to purchase any specific app or service in these rules, so no, no one is "required". Not a single person.

If you don't like where the app is sold, then don't purchase it. Simple.

 

[yabeweb]

Finally!

 

[BaldiMac]

They aren't; there is no requirement you buy-in to an alternate store.

You don't have to. All the EU is saying is Apple must let you, if you choose to. If you don't, absolutely nothing whatsoever changes.

Again, as soon as an app leaves the App Store or our apps are pirated, things will have changed.

 

[floral]

Well! Looks like someone (me) is swapping regions come 2024.

 

[pacalis]

Pirated? Lol. Yes, some apps will leave the App Store. This is the most entitled argument I've ever heard. I'm entitled to my walled garden. I'm entitled to using this app and I'm entitled to it only being available in the App Store. Me me me. Screw the developer. Me me me.

This doesn't screw developers. At present, the rules are the same for all of them.

Once you allow side-loading, devs with existing market power and distribution (like EPIC/tencent) will completely annihilate the indies. Then devs paying on the ecosystem will want off, because they willl have new lower cost competitors, even if it is to their disadvantage relative to what they had before. Everyone races to the bottom and the biggest, crappiest will consolidate.

The EU gets excited because maybe they can slow down the juggernaut of american innovation. Maybe American policy types can retaliate and demand that that every Michelin restaurant must allow Dunkin Donuts to sell in their restaurants because that's pretty much what is going on here.

 

[WarmWinterHat]

Again, as soon as an app leaves the App Store or our apps are pirated, things will have changed.

Funny how this isn't a problem on Android and the Play store. My wife uses Android, and has for years, and has never used an alternative store, nor ever pirated anything.

Myself, however, used to pirate apps on iOS all the time back when I was a jailbreaker.

 

[votdfak]

Everyone who thinks their data is safe on iOS should lay off the pipe.

 

[mrochester]

There is no requirement to purchase any specific app or service in these rules, so no, no one is "required". Not a single person.

If you don't like where the app is sold, then don't purchase it. Simple.

Doesn’t that mean control is being taken away from the consumer and handed to the developer?

 

[toobravetosave]

If the work you generate on your Mac is sold on Apple's App store and distributed to millions of potential customers then I think 'yes' that's a reasonable charge (and for most people its 15% not 30)

What if I sell it on another App Store?

 

[Analog Kid]

There is no requirement to purchase any specific app or service in these rules, so no, no one is "required". Not a single person.

Then we don’t have an open market. I can’t install all the apps I want to on my device because some of them aren’t sold on the AppStore you’re telling me to use if I don’t want anything to change. The value of our system will continue to diminish.

If you don't like where the app is sold, then don't purchase it. Simple.

Exactly what we’ve been arguing. If you don’t like the AppStore, don’t buy iPhone.

 

[quietstormSD]

So interested to see how Apple implements this. I figure it will be like Android where you have to enable developer options with a few disclaimers and warnings (from my recollection).

 

[BaldiMac]

Funny how this isn't a problem on Android and the Play store. My wife uses Android, and has for years, and has never used an alternative store, nor ever pirated anything.

Myself, however, used to pirate apps on iOS all the time back when I was a jailbreaker.

LOL. So because your wife has never pirated anything, it isn't a problem.

We don't offer Android apps. We already deal with significant support requests from Android users because of counterfeit versions of our apps on Android. We will see significant piracy of our apps on iOS in the EU, just like we do on every other platform we develop for. iOS is by far our largest revenue source, so that could have a big impact on our bottom line.

So "absolutely nothing whatsoever changes" is ********.

 

[MilaM]

Exactly what we’ve been arguing. If you don’t like the AppStore, don’t buy iPhone.

If phones where interchangeble like cars, or appliances, I would agree. But there is practically no choice. Only iOS or Android. Therefore in my opinion the regulation is justified.