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iPhone App Sideloading Coming to Users in the EU in First Half of 2024

Basic75 said:
The point I'm trying to make is that the government is generally massively involved in the economy through truckloads of laws and rules. These laws and rules create a playing field that is highly artificial. I believe it is short-sighted to decry any single rule as "evil government intervention" while not looking at the whole picture.
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I get your point, but I'm not decrying over a single rule. It's the other 100,000 plus federal (not including state) "rules/laws" on top of that. We probably agree on more than we think---but my point is, this is government actually CHANGING how a business is run. What's next, forcing Apple to price their phones at $100? I'm a firm believer that the free market dictates businesses far better than government.

blogs.loc.gov

Frequent Reference Question: How Many Federal Laws Are There? | In Custodia Legis

Frequent Reference Question: How Many Federal Laws Are There?
blogs.loc.gov blogs.loc.gov
 
mikelets456 said:
I'm a firm believer that the free market dictates businesses far better than government.
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Hm, I believe a free market allows more ways for the customer to be ****ed over by corporations. Like how much warranty would we have on consumer electronics if it weren't government mandated? Have you got examples for where the free market created better conditions?
 
mikelets456 said:
I'm a firm believer that the free market dictates businesses far better than government.
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The point is, there is no real competition for mobile operating systems anymore. It's just the duopoly left. And this gives these two "gatekeepers", as the EU law calls them, an unfair advantage. This law only tries to level the playing field somewhat.

There is also the fact, that mobile phones have become so essential to everyday live, try surving without one for a month in a modern society, that fair access for app developers is absolutely essential.
 
Basic75 said:
Yes, when the government control doesn't just take the interests of big corporations and big money into account. By that metric America is worse off than Europe, sure.
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I beg to differ---you might want to look up the "roaring 20's" for reference. American ingenuity and invention happened because government was limited in their oversight. The airplane, Lightbulb, assembly line for cars, medicine, etc---wasn't due to heavy oversight of government it was due to freedom to invent.

Why do you think a 65" flat screen TV is $250? Is it because of stringent government intervention or due to limited government intervention? Competition flourishes, prices drop and you get a better product. This is due to LIMITED intervention not FULL intervention. I believe the free market benefits US far more than a locked down markets full of corrupt beaurocrats. With the free market you have almost unlimited choice, with heavily regulated markets you have very little choice.
 
Basic75 said:
Hm, I believe a free market allows more ways for the customer to be ****ed over by corporations. Like how much warranty would we have on consumer electronics if it weren't government mandated? Have you got examples for where the free market created better conditions?
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See my post above---
 
Basic75 said:
Hm, I believe a free market allows more ways for the customer to be ****ed over by corporations. Like how much warranty would we have on consumer electronics if it weren't government mandated? Have you got examples for where the free market created better conditions?
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In 1912, an estimated 16 percent of American households had electricity; by the mid-1920s, more than 60 percent did. And with this electrification came new machines and technologies like the washing machine, the freezer and the vacuum cleaner eliminated some of the drudgeries of household work.



www.history.com

Roaring Twenties: Flappers, Prohibition & Jazz Age - HISTORY

The Roaring Twenties were a Jazz Age burst of prosperity and freedom for flappers and others during the Prohibition e...
www.history.com www.history.com
 
Timo_Existencia said:
And you're here to force us to accept your understanding of "freedom" right?
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I'm not forcing you to do or accept anything.

Maybe you don't quite understand the meaning of 'forcing' someone, the same way you misunderstand the meaning of 'freedom'?

Are you saying that you've now accepted my understanding of 'freedom'? Because you read my opinion on the matter? And because of that you've been 'forced' to? As in, I coerced you into accepting my understanding of 'freedom' by posting an opinion that you read?

Interesting. I suppose you get 'forced' into accepting a lot of things you don't agree with online. Sounds problematic.
 
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mikelets456 said:
I beg to differ---you might want to look up the "roaring 20's" for reference. American ingenuity and invention happened because government was limited in their oversight. The airplane, Lightbulb, assembly line for cars, medicine, etc---wasn't due to heavy oversight of government it was due to freedom to invent.

Why do you think a 65" flat screen TV is $250? Is it because of stringent government intervention or due to limited government intervention? Competition flourishes, prices drop and you get a better product. This is due to LIMITED intervention not FULL intervention. I believe the free market benefits US far more than a locked down markets full of corrupt beaurocrats. With the free market you have almost unlimited choice, with heavily regulated markets you have very little choice.
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What I'm hearing is that corrupt government is bad, which I agree with.
 
MilaM said:
The point is, there is no real competition for mobile operating systems anymore. It's just the duopoly left. And this gives these two "gatekeepers", as the EU law calls them, an unfair advantage. This law only tries to level the playing field somewhat.

There is also the fact, that mobile phones have become so essential to everyday live, try surving without one for a month in a modern society, that fair access for app developers is absolutely essential.
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That should be the goal, but the DMA fails at accomplishing that. You can't address a duopoly by giving the company with the dominant share a helping hand. Third-party app stores on iOS (Google Play), alternative browser engines on iOS (Google Chrome) and unvetted app installation (Google Ads) will all benefit Google. Google is even trying to use the DMA to force adoption of their preferred messaging protocol.

A real consumer focused regulation would breakup Google's control of the android market and incentivize real alternatives to Google Play. No more duopoly. Real competition.
 
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MilaM said:
The point is, there is no real competition for mobile operating systems anymore. It's just the duopoly left. And this gives these two "gatekeepers", as the EU law calls them, an unfair advantage. This law only tries to level the playing field somewhat.

There is also the fact, that mobile phones have become so essential to everyday live, try surving without one for a month in a modern society, that fair access for app developers is absolutely essential.
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But how did this unfair advantage begin? I bet along the way you'll see corporatism and government corruption at the core. Look through history---corruption leads to the small companies being swallowed up until there's only one company left, from numerous mom and pop companies down to two corporate giants then government steps in for price control because we demand it---which eventually becomes a government run XXXXXXX company. Total control---
 
MilaM said:
Easy to explain:

- the workers assembling it are paid peanuts
- factories in many countries in asia have very lax environmental laws
- the manufacturer of the 250$ tv is selling your watching habbits and showing you ads

Some of the above things could maybe use SOME government oversight.
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What is paid peanuts? Workers are paid the living wage in that country....better than starving I guess. That's like stating that people in KY are oppressed because they make $35K per year, but down there the cost of living is 1/4 of where I live. It's all relative.

BTW, Asia is NOT the only place TV panels are made...they make them in the USA as well. Your point is moot....

BTW, do you own a TV? Probably 3...if the wages are so bad, maybe sell those TVs and send them the money.

Now if you want to talk about slave labor because of a controlling government, then let's do it----let's talk EV batteries, phone batteries and so forth.
 
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sashavegas said:
Little snitch will develop app for EU market only ?
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Hmm. Interesting question. Would sideloaded apps have access to the APIs needed for something like Little Snitch to work? I would hope not, but I don't know what the DMA requires.
 
Timo_Existencia said:
So, let's take this a step further then...would you support the government removing seatbelts from cars, labeling on harmful products, etc?
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Your analogy is way off. I might be against the government mandating I use the seabelt (though personally I would still do it). I am definitely not against the government mandating car manufacturers install the seatbelts.
 
BaldiMac said:
Hmm. Interesting question. Would sideloaded apps have access to the APIs needed for something like Little Snitch to work? I would hope not, but I don't know what the DMA requires.
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There are special APIs for that on macOS. There's no reason why they could not exist on iOS as well.
 
MilaM said:
There are special APIs for that on macOS. There's no reason why they could not exist on iOS as well.
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The question isn't whether they could exist. It's whether they do exist and whether Apple would provide access to sideloaded apps. Monitoring every network connection of a smartphone is something to consider carefully.
 
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mikelets456 said:
Look through history---corruption leads to the small companies being swallowed up until there's only one company left, from numerous mom and pop companies down to two corporate giants then government steps in for price control because we demand it---which eventually becomes a government run XXXXXXX company. Total control---
Click to expand...
I agree. That's how pure capitalism always ends, with monopolies. That's why lawmakers invented rules against monopolies and unfair competition. I think that's progress and society can have the best of both worlds (markets with rules AND competition).
 
MilaM said:
I agree. That's how pure capitalism always ends, with monopolies. That's why lawmakers invented rules against monopolies and unfair competition. I think that's progress and society can have the best of both worlds (markets with rules AND competition).
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That's why government needs to be limited--balanced. Once the scales tip too much one way or the other, problems start and "we the people" are the ones that pay for it ...

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."---Lord Acton
 
Basic75 said:
What I'm hearing is that corrupt government is bad, which I agree with.
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Corrupt anything is bad especially when they have power...and can ruin your life.

It's been a pleasure but I need to get back to work.

"Any political system works as long as it's in a just and honest society"---Benjamin Franklin
 
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Wild how many people here are defending Apple as if there is any valid reason other than keeping users in a walled garden exists for this. Apple brainwashed its user base good, man...

An open platform has worked just fine for decades on Windows, Android, macOS and any other OS out there. If being allowed to install apps from other sources compromises your entire ecosystem, then mayhaps your ecosystem doesn't deserve to exist.

Luckily, we already know that that's not the case with iOS. So there really is no reason for the lock-in at all. Good riddance, and I hope other countries will force Apple to do this for their people too soon, perhaps to the point where it no longer remains feasible for Apple to do it in one country but not in another.
 
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