iPhone App Sideloading Coming to Users in the EU in First Half of 2024

[Sophisticatednut]

I cannot. The walled garden has been dismantled. I can choose to not venture beyond where the walls once were, but that's a very, very different thing.

I tried to take responsibility for what was installed on my device by choosing a system that reduced the time and energy to manage that responsibility. Now that is gone.

That’s the thing, you never had your walled garden, it disappeared many years ago. All you need is a “compromised” certificate to install unauthorised apps without apples prior approval. Or you can even buy such certificates if you want to install modified apps such for messenger, twitter, Redditc discord etc

You have just been ignorant of its existence in your ignorant bliss. All this legislation effectively does with regards to this is simply preventing Apple from stopping users and businesses to do that on consensual basis.

 

[ric22]

What is paid peanuts? Workers are paid the living wage in that country....better than starving I guess.

Do you know what is meant by a "living wage"? If you think all factory workers in Asia earn a living wage, you may want to do some research.

 

[BaldiMac]

That’s the thing, you never had your walled garden, it disappeared many years ago. All you need is a “compromised” certificate to install unauthorised apps without apples prior approval. Or you can even buy such certificates if you want to install modified apps such for messenger, twitter, Redditc discord etcView attachment 2311865

You have just been ignorant of its existence in your ignorant bliss. All this legislation effectively does with regards to this is simply preventing Apple from stopping users and businesses to do that on consensual basis.
View attachment 2311866

Ahhh, yes, the "limited sideloading lead already lead to limited piracy, so let's open it up to everyone!" argument. Somehow how this makes sense to someone!

 

[mikelets456]

Wild how many people here are defending Apple as if there is any valid reason other than keeping users in a walled garden exists for this. Apple brainwashed its user base good, man...

An open platform has worked just fine for decades on Windows, Android, macOS and any other OS out there. If being allowed to install apps from other sources compromises your entire ecosystem, then mayhaps your ecosystem doesn't deserve to exist.

Luckily, we already know that that's not the case with iOS. So there really is no reason for the lock-in at all. Good riddance, and I hope other countries will force Apple to do this for their people too soon, perhaps to the point where it no longer remains feasible for Apple to do it in one country but not in another.

The key difference is it was done by choice---not forced manipulation by government.

I'm not a fan boy of anything, but I am a fan of companies running with littler interference from government unless obviously they're doing something illegal.

 

[BaldiMac]

Wild how many people here are defending Apple as if there is any valid reason other than keeping users in a walled garden exists for this. Apple brainwashed its user base good, man...

An open platform has worked just fine for decades on Windows, Android, macOS and any other OS out there. If being allowed to install apps from other sources compromises your entire ecosystem, then mayhaps your ecosystem doesn't deserve to exist.

Luckily, we already know that that's not the case with iOS. So there really is no reason for the lock-in at all. Good riddance, and I hope other countries will force Apple to do this for their people too soon, perhaps to the point where it no longer remains feasible for Apple to do it in one country but not in another.

"Just fine" lead to a trillion dollar global malware industry. I prefer better than that.

 

[ItsASpider]

Hm, I believe a free market allows more ways for the customer to be ****ed over by corporations. Like how much warranty would we have on consumer electronics if it weren't government mandated? Have you got examples for where the free market created better conditions?

The only examples that exist of a "free market" creating better conditions are instances were that was just a brief moment in time when that market was young. Every other time markets have been left unchecked competition in the market just comes to a stand-still because the players realize they can just get more money if they don't. If we're lucky that stand-still isn't a monopoly or duopoly, but even that rarely happens (and let the phone market be a beautiful example of that).

...unless your definition for "better conditions" is "better for the shareholders", because in that case, it happens all the time.

 

[MilaM]

An open platform has worked just fine for decades on Windows, Android, macOS and any other OS out there. If being allowed to install apps from other sources compromises your entire ecosystem, then mayhaps your ecosystem doesn't deserve to exist.

It's really just an accident of history that Apple had the opportunity to roll out it's mobile OS in the way it did, with such strict controls over what can run on it. Maybe it was even a necessity in the beginning, when hardware was much less powerful than today.

 

[Analog Kid]

That is correct. More freedom means more responsibility. C’est la vie, as they say in France.

Then we can stop saying "nothing changes if you like the walled garden". It does change, as stated by the French.

 

[Pack Leader]

The regulation explicitly spelling out that no fee is allowed to be levied.

Oh I didn't know that. Wonder if there are exceptions. Eg. would the developer program fee count?

 

[Samplasion]

I don't want freedom on my phone. I want my phone to be a closed and secure system. Very simple, you don't give everyone keys to your house. I also don't want to give everyone keys to my phone. And that's basically what the EU is requireing here. They (the EU) wants keys to everyone's phones. Because that would make it very easy for them to undermine everyone's privacy and security.

Also it's not freedom what the EU is requesting. Because right now you have the freedom to chose between a closed secure system and an open less secure system (Android). In the future you won't have this choice. iOS would be exactly the same as Android because of this, only with a better UI.

It's more like you want to give your best friend your house keys for a weekend but the water company says you can only give them to people who make at least six figures and only through their "key-sharing marketplace" through which they get a cut on all expenses other that, you know, the water bill.

 

[BaldiMac]

Oh I didn't know that. Wonder if there are exceptions. Eg. would the developer program fee count?

It's not true.

 

[Analog Kid]

Well, fact that it’s true, and proven by decades of Android existing with that option, makes it true. So whatever on that.

Android does not prevent installation outside of a single point of entry. But, and this is the important part, Android exists with as many app stores as you can dream of.

If a developer thinks he can make more money for his product elsewhere, you saying he shouldon’t have that opportunity?

I'm saying he's more than welcome to make that money elsewhere. I'm also saying that I shouldn't be forced to accept restrictions on my choice of platform just to accommodate it.

No developer is forced (caps lock is silly) to only one option. There are many AppStores to sell through:

The Ultimate List of Mobile App Stores (2025)

Find out which app store or online marketplace you should submit your app to and ensure your app can compete successfully against other apps.

buildfire.com

 

[Analog Kid]

There have been reports showing that iOS users overall spend more on apps than Android users.

So that market value is lost then….

What "market value" is lost?

As you said, people are willing to pay more on apps in the iOS ecosystem than they are in the Android ecosystem, and the iOS ecosystem is being undermined so why would people continue to pay more for those apps? They're losing the benefits of trust they had in iOS, so the value is now reduced.

This is the classic race to the bottom behavior. People focus on falling prices while ignoring that that reflects falling value.

 

[tridley68]

Wait till their phones brick from questionable content they downloaded and then they are going to cry to Apple

 

[MilaM]

As you said, people are willing to pay more on apps in the iOS ecosystem than they are in the Android ecosystem

Have you considered, that maybe people buy apps when developers create high quality software? And that Apple profits immensly from the hard work of third-party developers, because it's them that make the platform so attractive. Instead of charging 30% commission I think Apple should probably pay some app creators for being on their platform.

It's give and take. But currently Apple mostly takes.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

In no world will Apple make less money if they aren't getting money from the other massive multi-million dollar companies they will simply shift that cost to customers. Bring on price hikes every month in the EU for all Apple services until it makes up for lost appstore revenue. But hey Spotify/Epic is putting more money in their pockets and that's what matters right?

I'm sure shareholders will stand up and cheer when the appstore profits tank. See above to what will ultimately happen.

So… Apple will disenfranchise their user base? Well that’s their choice. That would just make competing services take over instead as the AppStore explodes in costs

Congrats and now I can sell cracked copies of your app for less. That's my right my freedom to profit off of your work. People want it for less and I am offering it sounds fair to me.

You wouldn’t be able to redistribute others products irrespective as it’s illegal to resell pirat Software.

Repeating a lie a million times doesn't make it right. The idea that nothing is removed only lasts until the first app leaves the App Store.

Well look at my previous comment, the ability to sideload have existed for a while, and multiple apps have left the AppStore permanently over the years…. So?

And yet you're supporting a law that has the government bending to the will of corporate lobbying. Again, there is no significant consumer support for third-party stores. This regulation will lead to more anti-consumer strategies like variable pricing, privacy issues, discount codes, and straight up scams. Apple isn't perfect, but they certainly have some significant pro-consumer policies.

Privacy issues are enforced on the OS level.

How will you have variable pricing on an infinite goods? Or you mean that prices are different depending where it’s sold?
That’s already illegal for Apple to prevent that.

Discount codes?! How is that bad or malicious?

Scams are still a crime and dealt with better security standards. Password less logins,
Use eID that uses fingerprint and face recognition authentication on compatible iOS and Android devices.

Electronic IDs are used for secure web login to Swedish authorities( known as bankID), banks, health centers (allowing people to see their medical records

I think you might need to increase your security standards in the U.S. for cards and transaction verification.

 

[Treble]

Just let me have syncler plus on tvOS and I’m happy

 

[Samplasion]

If you want it, you should pay for it!

And why, pray tell, should we pay for such a basic piece of functionality?

 

[Analog Kid]

Have you considered, that maybe people buy apps when developers create high quality software? And that Apple profits immensly from the hard work of third-party developers, because it's them that make the platform so attractive. Instead of charging 30% commission I think Apple should probably pay some app creators for being on their platform.

It's give and take. But currently Apple mostly takes.

I've no idea how this relates at all to what you're replying to....

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Hmm. Interesting question. Would sideloaded apps have access to the APIs needed for something like Little Snitch to work? I would hope not, but I don't know what the DMA requires.

there’s nothing Apple can do to actually prevent the use of the APIs without consent. With or without EU laws. It’s more a technical issue and not a legal one.

The DMA only requires the developers get the same access to APIs as apples own services use in the AppStore, but that’s different from side loading.

 

[canadianreader]

View attachment 2311593

Wow I could't believe the image was real. I'm really shocked they went there.

 

[BaldiMac]

Well look at my previous comment, the ability to sideload have existed for a while, and multiple apps have left the AppStore permanently over the years…. So?

I already responded to your previous comment on this issue. LOL.

Privacy issues are enforced on the OS level.

And through App Store review. But you knew that.

How will you have variable pricing on an infinite goods? Or you mean that prices are different depending where it’s sold?
That’s already illegal for Apple to prevent that.

Variable pricing schemes involve varying pricing based on user profiles. For example, charge more to someone who recently visited an expensive store. Or logs in from a rich neighborhood.

For example, from one of the biggest companies lobbying to bypass the App Store:

https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/blog/new-research-tinders-opaque-unfair-pricing-algorithm-can-charge-users-up-to-five-times-more-for-same-service/

Discount codes?! How is that bad or malicious?

Because it involves more work more confusion and more regret. I prefer the price I'm offered to be the best price.

 

[MilaM]

I've no idea how this relates at all to what you're replying to....

I was just suggesting that maybe the reason why people spend more money on iOS has nothing to do with trust they have in Apple's app store.

 

[MilaM]

Wow I could't believe the image was real. I'm really shocked they went there.

Haha, yes. You only pull this argument when you have no argument.

 

[Samplasion]

I tried to take responsibility for what was installed on my device by choosing a system that reduced the time and energy to manage that responsibility.

AKA you "took" responsibility by giving responsibility to Apple instead. Bravo, well played