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Can we start a thread that doesn't contain people bitching about the ethics of hacking an iPhone? It's a little old, not to mention annoying...
 
I think I'm going to grow a backbone and demand that Bank of America stop charging ATM fees for using other banks' ATMs. Oh wait...they have every right to do that and it's my CHOICE to get fleeced.


People always use free choice to NOT do something as some kind of justification for companies exploiting customers. When all companies exploit, the consumer no longer has the luxury to 'speak with their feet' and go to a competitor. ATM fees are a outrageous. In many other countries, banks collaborate by using the same ATMs so that, regardless of which bank you use, you can withdraw money from any ATM. That's how it SHOULD be. But like with so many things here, customers get fleeced because companies here think that the only way to compete is through non-cooperation with competitors. Same thing for cell phone towers, cable tv etc - the only people losing out are the customers. Do I have free choice to choose whatever cable tv provider I want? Only if I choose NOT to have cable at all. Otherwise I'm stuck with one provider. With the iphone it's different since I can just go out an buy another phone that works on any network and is unlocked.
 
what part you don't understand?

you seemed to be not too happy with people answering to those posts of disgruntled hackers. I am just saying, all that, whining hackers and answers to that (including mine), should go somewhere else, as you suggested, hence the 'wonderful idea' comment. :)

your point is what?
 
I don't see why the few people who unlocked their phones and foolishly updated are complaining about. They gave you a heads up "DONT UPDATE" and you still went ahead and updated:confused:

I and the majority who unlocked are still functioning without issue by simply not updating this software. These warnings were clearly posted on every unlock instruction set.

Apple can do whatever they want to break unlocks, but they are limited by the consumer. If you allow them to brick your phone by updating, then you've done their job for them. I would wager the majority havent updated.

So Unlocked does not equal bricked, foolishly updated unlock equals bricked.

There is nothing in the update that even made me consider the update - perhaps releasing some useful apps that sole puprose isnt to suck you dry would be a start:rolleyes:
 
If you want Apple support and firmware/software updates. You have to abide by the EULA agreement. How hard is that to possibly understand.

For me this sums up the situation. At the time of purchase each customer has to make a choice:

a) You tie yourself to a 2 year AT&T contract and receive full support and all future upgrades from Apple or

b) You hack the iphone and except that you are opting out off the approved "apple" upgrade/support stream. Your device still works as it did before, but you are locked out of the approved development path.

I think it's a bit rich to hack a device and then expect Apple to support/feature upgrade it. The recent upgrade has proven you cannot have it both ways. Any phone that gets bricked today is a result of an individual expecting both! Choose you upgrader stream and stick to it.

I fully support the hackers, I believe we have a right to make changes to a device we own. But I also except in doing so we lose access to "approved updates". Now if apple were to force a firmware upgrade, then I would have a serious issue with what they are doing (I guess this could be achieved by preventing newer versions of itunes syncing with iphones running old firmware?).
 
I didn't have time to read all nearly 600 posts so I don't know if anyone else has posted this yet or not. But, has anyone else noticed that the status bar at the top of the screen is replaced by a dark grey bar when using the mail application?

I noticed this too - why do you suppose that has changed?
 
It's all coming

I see Apple's side of things and I also see everyone else's side of it. After all we paid on average $500 for this awesome device so we "should" be able to do whatever we please with it.

3rd party development is coming it just needs time. I would imagine it will have to go the same route MS went with XBOX Live. Everything goes through MS for certification before going live. From what I've read this a problem for developers as it drives up development costs and pushes deadlines back. It's also a problem for the gamers because things take forever to make it out like patches/updates, new maps & levels etc.. On MS's side they have control of what goes on their servers. I can't imagine XBOX Live going down because of a little patch. I for one would find the tallest building in town and jump off if XBL goes down ;) That also has a lo of cost involved on MS side which I'm pretty sure all gets passed down to us the subscribers.

Apple will have to come up and deploy some sort of mechanism for all that and I'm pretty sure "think tanks" are all over it to make it happen one way or another. Remember it's not only Apple here but all the cell carriers as well and everyone has to play nice together for anything to get accomplished.
 
not familiar with that app. happen to have a link?
thanks!

http://www.rogueamoeba.com/freebies/

The way to do this is actually really dumb, and I dont know why this works.
First make your ring tone and change the extenstion to .m4r
Double click to add to iTunes. It will show up under the ring tones tab and if you sync your phone it will be in your ringtones list. At this point the ring tone will not play.
Now, rename the ringtone in the finder back to .m4a and add it to iTunes using MakeiPhoneRingtone. It is going to add the same file into your ringtone tab a second time, but when you sync the phone there will only be one in the list on the phone and it will now play.
I had 2 ring tones that I needed to delete and do a 2nd time for them to work, but I have added 9 ring tones to my phone with the 1.1.1 update installed.
 
I'm one of the faction that believes Apple is doing the right thing by keeping the iPhone locked down. (you can flame-on if you like).

My principal feeling is that Apple has the best chance of maintaining and growing a highly reliable experience on the iPhone. The more 3rd party stuff that goes on, the more Apple has to deploy resources to chase it's tail. These forums are evidence enough that most of the hacked phones and phones with poorly written 3rd party apps end up back at Apple. Now Apple has to deploy it's resources to chase this stuff. I'd rather have Apple developing new software for the iPhone than chasing a bunch of avoidable problems.
:)

Another one for the ignore list...
 
For me this sums up the situation. At the time of purchase each customer has to make a choice:

a) You tie yourself to a 2 year AT&T contract and receive full support and all future upgrades from Apple or

b) You hack the iphone and except that you are opting out off the approved "apple" upgrade/support stream. Your device still works as it did before, but you are locked out of the approved development path.

I think it's a bit rich to hack a device and then expect Apple to support/feature upgrade it. The recent upgrade has proven you cannot have it both ways. Any phone that gets bricked today is a result of an individual expecting both! Choose you upgrader stream and stick to it.

I fully support the hackers, I believe we have a right to make changes to a device we own. But I also except in doing so we lose access to "approved updates". Now if apple were to force a firmware upgrade, then I would have a serious issue with what they are doing (I guess this could be achieved by preventing newer versions of itunes syncing with iphones running old firmware?).

Except for the way you've mixed up "accept" and "except", I accept everything you say. Normally I don't accept poor grammar, but in you case, I'll make an exception. :)

*edit* Note: This is humour, not criticism. I've even attached a smiley to prove it, so don't bother with the "How very dare you criticise when it's not even the poster's first language!!!111!!!"
 
Install Install.app and look at the insane amount of Apps you can put on your phone. In fact, installer.app alone is one of the slickest package managers out there. All this and they are not even using any documentation from Apple.

Actually, there are many people I know that are holding onto 1.0.2 because they think the 3rd party apps currently available are worth more than the couple of new features 1.1.1 offers.

I'm in this group. I didn't even use Installer.app until last night. I wanted to see if I'd be OK with the 1.1.1 update of if I wanted 3rd party apps more.

I have to agree, Installer.app is incredibly slick and the ability to install apps anywhere I have an internet connection is very cool. I will keep my phone at 1.0.2 indefinitely if necessary because these 3rd party apps are so useful.
 
Innovation

It seems that there is a lot of "rabble-rousing" going on in this forum. There are those who say "Leave the iPhone and its software alone - don't hack it!" And there are those who like having their phones being open and being able to add what they want.

Outside of the Unlocking aspect (i.e. SIM switching) which is a little bit of a different subject, I would like to discuss only the "Modding" aspect of the iPhone (i.e. 3rd party applications).

For those of you who say that these "hacks" are taking up too much of Apple's valuable time and research out of developing real fixes and apps for the iPhone by dedicating their time to circumventing the ability of these "hacks" to get into the iPhone, I say "Bull!" This only helps Apple. "How?" you ask. Well, by simply doing their research and work for them. This only helps Apple by finding out where these holes are in their system and improving on it.

Granted, this also makes it harder for these 3rd party developers in making their iPhone apps. Everyone developing 3rd party apps already knows that what they are creating is not approved nor sanctioned by Apple, so this is nothing new. So what do they do? Dig deeper and find alternative ways. And what comes from this? Innovation, creative programming and development.

And who benefits from this? Well I think those of us who are enjoying these 3rd party apps, future iPhone customers as well as Apple. Apple? Yes, Apple. It gets them a chance to sit back and see what designers and programmers are developing for the iPhone as well as to see what kinds of apps people are most interested in. This gives them a chance to "preview" what kinds of apps Apple can offer to consumers in the near future. Again, they are doing some valuable R & D for them.

Steve Jobs was even quoted at the recent announcement of the iPhone in the UK that they are currently "looking into some of these apps" and looking into possibly aquiring them for future apps for the iPhone.

All someone has to do is to see the history of Apple and its aquiring of talent and software in its recent past. Programs such as Apple's popular Widgets came from a piece software known as Konfabulator. A designer & programmer, Mike Matas came from Delicious Monster. A company making software for the Mac community.

Again, innovation OUTSIDE of Apple.

People seem to forget that a lot of innovation and discovery in this industry comes from people thinking "outside the box" as well as outside the "company." Everything that comes from Apple or even companies like Apple don't always start at Apple. Innovation comes from a need and a desire to find alternative ways to solve problems or needs. Innovation is what makes companies stay one step ahead of the competition. Innovation needs to be admired, courted and encouraged. No matter what form it comes in. Let Apple do what it thinks it needs to in order to keep its software and hardware safe, secure and free of bugs. But people also need to realize that if it wasn't for a lot of the industry's "Hacks," we wouldn't have half of the innovations we seem to enjoy today.

This reminds me of two innovative computer geeks who invented the "blue box," an illegal pocket-size telephone attachment that would allow the user to make free long-distance calls over a particular telephone network.

The "Geeks" were Steve Jobs & Stephen Wozniak.

The telephone network was AT&T (ironic, isn't it?).

Just a little history lesson for those of you who forgot.
 
http://www.rogueamoeba.com/freebies/

The way to do this is actually really dumb, and I dont know why this works.
First make your ring tone and change the extenstion to .m4r
Double click to add to iTunes. It will show up under the ring tones tab and if you sync your phone it will be in your ringtones list. At this point the ring tone will not play.
Now, rename the ringtone in the finder back to .m4a and add it to iTunes using MakeiPhoneRingtone. It is going to add the same file into your ringtone tab a second time, but when you sync the phone there will only be one in the list on the phone and it will now play.
I had 2 ring tones that I needed to delete and do a 2nd time for them to work, but I have added 9 ring tones to my phone with the 1.1.1 update installed.

Hmm, Rogue Amoeba says it doesn't work with iTunes 7.4.2. I was avoiding upgrading to 7.4 since I had existing ringtones and didn't want to risk having to upgrade my iPhone until 1.1.1 came out. So now I'm stuck with 7.4.2, 1.1.1 and no ringtones. Er well...and the option of paying $2 for a 30 second clip of music, i.e., the free 30 second iTunes preview.
 
I see Apple's side of things and I also see everyone else's side of it. After all we paid on average $500 for this awesome device so we "should" be able to do whatever we please with it.

You can do whatever you please to it. You can hack it or mod it or use it as a frisbee or stick it in a microwave to see what happens. Apple doesn't care what you do with it and isn't going to stop you from doing these things.

But if you do decide to do these things, you will be doing so at your own risk. Apple isn't obligated to support your experiments or make sure that the thing still works after you have willfully and knowingly decided to do something that Apple told you may break the device.

Installing version 1.1.1 onto a hacked iPhone is like throwing it off a building.

It's not especially surprising. Apple always stated that the iPhone is a closed device. And Apple has specifically stated that hacking the iPhone could brick it. And yet there are users out there who are smart enough to hack their phone and yet not smart enough to take Apple's warnings seriously complaining about bricked devices?

Nor is it too difficult to understand. I can decide on my own to run nitro glycerin through the internal combustion engine of my new car. It is after all my car and I can do with it as I please, right? It shouldn't be too perplexing that when I take the resulting puddle of the metal to the shop that it probably won't be covered by the warranty. Something similar applies here.

The question of whether Apple should open the phone up for developers is of course subject to another debate. But as far as freedom of using your own property to do with as you please is concerned no one is stopping anyone from bricking their phones, which is what some users have chosen to do despite Apples warnings and common sense.
 
Hmm, Rogue Amoeba says it doesn't work with iTunes 7.4.2. I was avoiding upgrading to 7.4 since I had existing ringtones and didn't want to risk having to upgrade my iPhone until 1.1.1 came out. So now I'm stuck with 7.4.2, 1.1.1 and no ringtones. Er well...and the option of paying $2 for a 30 second clip of music, i.e., the free 30 second iTunes preview.

can't you just downgrade to 7.4.0? Uninstall itunes then reinstall with 7.4.0 installer.
 
I see Apple's side of things and I also see everyone else's side of it. After all we paid on average $500 for this awesome device so we "should" be able to do whatever we please with it.

3rd party development is coming it just needs time. I would imagine it will have to go the same route MS went with XBOX Live. Everything goes through MS for certification before going live. From what I've read this a problem for developers as it drives up development costs and pushes deadlines back. It's also a problem for the gamers because things take forever to make it out like patches/updates, new maps & levels etc.. On MS's side they have control of what goes on their servers. I can't imagine XBOX Live going down because of a little patch. I for one would find the tallest building in town and jump off if XBL goes down ;) That also has a lo of cost involved on MS side which I'm pretty sure all gets passed down to us the subscribers.

Apple will have to come up and deploy some sort of mechanism for all that and I'm pretty sure "think tanks" are all over it to make it happen one way or another. Remember it's not only Apple here but all the cell carriers as well and everyone has to play nice together for anything to get accomplished.

Here's the problem with such a certification program.....your average joe schmoe programmer (one man team) who creates a widget like "Delivery Status" or a program like unarchiver on OS X would find it much more difficult because they are simply a one man team working in there spare time. In my opinion, this is really where the innovative ideas for widgets and programs come from, these brilliant programmers just doing it in there spare time.

I can give you dozens of examples of PalmOS programs that were developed by just one programmer in spare time, but were insanely useful to many of the treo users out there.
 
http://www.rogueamoeba.com/freebies/

The way to do this is actually really dumb, and I dont know why this works.
First make your ring tone and change the extenstion to .m4r
Double click to add to iTunes. It will show up under the ring tones tab and if you sync your phone it will be in your ringtones list. At this point the ring tone will not play.
Now, rename the ringtone in the finder back to .m4a and add it to iTunes using MakeiPhoneRingtone. It is going to add the same file into your ringtone tab a second time, but when you sync the phone there will only be one in the list on the phone and it will now play.
I had 2 ring tones that I needed to delete and do a 2nd time for them to work, but I have added 9 ring tones to my phone with the 1.1.1 update installed.



Hmm, Rogue Amoeba says it doesn't work with iTunes 7.4.2.

stonedgrace's workaround seems to be to first load the ringtone into iTune's library, even though iTunes will not sync it because it is not in the proper form (it's in a .m4r format while iTunes now wants .m4a). So then you rename it back to the "proper" .m4a format and use MakeiPhoneRingtone to get it onto the iPhone, bypassing iTunes.

So iTunes has the ringtones in the library and they match the ringtones on the iPhone (installed via MIPRT and not iTunes) and this is enough to keep iTunes from deleting the ringtones or breaking them per stonedgrace.

I have yet to go to 7.4.2 or 1.1.1 because I want to keep my ringtones. If a few souls braver then I can prove that stonedgrace's workaround is a valid one, then I'd be willing to take the chance.
 
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