iPhone SDK Details Emerging?

[126351]

All very Bill Gates.

 

[Clive At Five]

Well, at least Jailbreak (and hence unofficial apps, add-ons, gadgets, etc) will all still work.

I warned y'all that Apple would ruin 3rd-party apps... and if this report turns out to be true, I was right.

And you all called me a troll... Apple's the only infidel I'm seeing.

-Clive

 

[Much Ado]

They don't protect OSX. And I can cause a hell of a lot more damage with a virus on a computer than I can on a phone.

Oooh... I would have to disagree with that. Viruses across a phone network? Doesn't even bear thinking about...

 

[Tosser]

This is a good thing for consumers...eve if the developers don't all agree. As soon as someone's iPhone stops working due to a poorly written app, the perception of the product will head downhill. Apple want's to do anything and everything they can to avoid this.

Wait, you conclude that this will be good for the consumer, yet your argument is that if a virus hit the iPhone, the perception of the product will head downhill (implying less sales)!? You do realise you're arguing this is better for Apple, yet claim it's better for the consumer, right?

 

[jmorrison0722]

A "walled garden" is exactly what the rumor is about. The rumor here is that Apple will be the sole gatekeepr for what is allowed on the iPhone. That's also what the discussion here is about; the rumor. Of course this entire discussion becomes meaningless if the rumor is false.

If apps make the iPhone not work properly, then it isn't the app that needs to be troubleshooted, but the iPhone OS. Apple doesn't need to and shouldn't try to claim responsibility for the QA of every app created for the iPhone. Their only responsibility is and should be the quality of the OS.

If you're gonna give someone the keys to the car...make sure they can drive and have a license.

 

[w00master]

Are you implying Apple don't take the necessary measures to secure Mac OS?

Last time I checked, it was the most secure OS on the market, to date.

Why would they treat the iPhone any differently?

Or perhaps the question is:

Why would you even think they would look at security differently? - As you said, what is the difference in the iPhone/iPod touch and a computer?

Answer? - Nothing.

R-Fly

The difference is that on a desktop/notebook, anyone can create a device and drivers that will work with OS X on that platform. Additionally, Apple is not reviewing every single app that comes out for desktops/notebooks.

w00master

 

[Spades]

Why would you even think they would look at security differently? - As you said, what is the difference in the iPhone/iPod touch and a computer?

Answer? - Nothing.

R-Fly

You're misunderstanding my argument and then agreeing with me in the end. The rumor is that Apple will strictly control the apps that can be installed on the iPhone. That is different from OS X, where any third party developer can release an app and any user can install them without any approval from Apple. That's the difference that I'm saying doesn't need to be there.

 

[yg17]

Your computer don't fit in your pocket now does it? It is an Apple product and Apple will decide what and when to do with it. Get use to it. Or break your warranty and jailbreak your phone and be done with it.

I'm the consumer. If I owned an iPhone, I'm the one who would decide what and when to do with it because I PAID FOR IT. IT'S MINE. If I want to run some crappy, half assed application coded by a few trained chimpanzees, that's my right, and Apple shouldn't stop me. If Apple's going to give me a free iPhone and pay for my monthly service, they can have as much control as I want. But as long as I'm paying, I decide what does and doesn't get installed.

I don't need to break a warranty and jailbreak my phone to run apps, because I have a phone that actually gives the consumer some freedom over products that they paid for.

 

[jmorrison0722]

Wait, you conclude that this will be good for the consumer, yet your argument is that if a virus hit the iPhone, the perception of the product will head downhill (implying less sales)!? You do realise you're arguing this is better for Apple, yet claim it's better for the consumer, right?

Exactly. Now you're getting it. What is good for the consumer is good for Apple. Apple wants the consumer experience with the phone to be superb. If they let just anyone put apps out there, you're going to end up with a ton of poorly written software that will lock up the phone. This would be a bad consumer experience...therefore bad for Apple. You see...they are the same.

 

[Eraserhead]

Funny... this line of argument may hold true for the iPhone, but what about the iPod Touch? Hmmmmm?????

The iPod Touch can go on the internet too .

I would equate getting my phone and an AT&T contract as my "license" to drive.

Well only if you follow the "Egyptian" driving test where you bribe the test giver, and then just have to drive around a set of cones.

And yet... if software distribution had been locked down and controlled by commercial interests back in the day, would we have the incredible richness of software we all benefit from today? Would we even have OS X? It seems likely that that sort of control would have stifled FOSS: and even if you never install a third-party app on your Mac, you benefit from FOSS, given how much of it is present under your Mac's hood.

Most FOSS software is actually written by large companies such as IBM. Regardless it would be massively not in Apples interest to block applications just because they are politically bad. Otherwise someone else will allow them, and people will switch to that platform, Apple isn't the only option.

The problem with these models is that it assumes a perfect, benign signing authority.

Apple is neither perfect nor benign.

True. The problem is that noone else will setup an independent signing body. The governments of the world aren't in the position yet to set up an independent signing body for applications.

 

[eastcoastsurfer]

It's not about free as in no cost, but about freedom to do what I want with a device that I own. Apple should and will provide a directory of high quality apps, some of which will be free or you pay for. They should not prevent me from looking on the net and finding any other cool apps I think are useful to me. The only reason they would vet apps is to make sure no apps get made that would compete with them. This means any chat or voip type apps. Any other reason simply a fanboy response.

 

[Spades]

If you're gonna give someone the keys to the car...make sure they can drive and have a license.

Licensing computer use is another debate entirely. The arguments apply equally to computers and to the iPhone. I for one prefer the freedom of installing and developing what I want.

 

[Hooka]

Sorry, but this line of control is the very definition of a "Walled Garden." The model follows *nearly exactly* to how MS handles updates/games/applications/etc. on XBox Live. EVERYONE calls XBox Live a "walled garden." So, explain to me what the difference here is with Apple?

w00master

Because Apple is going to let anyone submit apps. All Apple wants to do is test them and put them on the device. Don't you read the article before posting?

What is "walled" about that, the delivery method may be "walled." But that is about it.

 

[Shanesan]

If you actually thought Apple would make this an open-platform, programs would be mostly free, etc, you're only fooling yourself.

Jailbreaking will not stop until Apple provides a free service without barriers. The only things they should be checking for is dangerous code. I have yet to see someone develop a "dangerous" app for the iOS.

 

[jmorrison0722]

You're misunderstanding my argument and then agreeing with me in the end. The rumor is that Apple will strictly control the apps that can be installed on the iPhone. That is different from OS X, where any third party developer can release an app and any user can install them without any approval from Apple. That's the difference that I'm saying doesn't need to be there.

Spades,
While I see your point and want to agree with it...I don't. You see, Apple created and released an iPhone, not a handheld Mac. They've never claimed it to be that. I'm not sure it's fair to expect them to treat them the same.

 

[Eraserhead]

Licensing computer use is another debate entirely. The arguments apply equally to computers and to the iPhone. I for one prefer the freedom of installing and developing what I want.

The reason its being bought up, is that we can't easily do it for computers as the cat is already out the bag, whereas we can learn from the mistakes there and try and come up with a better system for phones.

Sorry, but this line of control is the very definition of a "Walled Garden." The model follows *nearly exactly* to how MS handles updates/games/applications/etc. on XBox Live. EVERYONE calls XBox Live a "walled garden." So, explain to me what the difference here is with Apple?

w00master

And PC gaming, which runs outside the walled garden is dying.

 

[jmorrison0722]

Licensing computer use is another debate entirely. The arguments apply equally to computers and to the iPhone. I for one prefer the freedom of installing and developing what I want.

My point was to protect your valuable assets. Apple wants to protect the phone and not let just "anyone" write "anything" for it. They want to enforce some level of quality control. That is, of course, if this rumor is even true.

 

[SFC Archer]

This is actually the worst part. But here goes. First of all, I'm far beyond the age where I "brag" about a phone. Sorry, but I'm not twelve. Second of all, I have chosen to _not_ buy an iPod Touch, let alone an iPhone, exactly _because_ of the crippling. Some people actually mean what they say, you know.

I was talking features, not necessarily apps. Get the facts straight. Disk mode for one, is propably the worst of the purposeful crippling.

No, it just means I'm using something other than Apple's products. However, how Apple is doing business affects buyers of other hardware/software as it is right now. Simply because, if the arguments work with Apple, they work with other hardware and software pushers out there. And as a consumer, lockins and crippled products aren't a good thing. But I see you point: All the crippling is fine, since if you cannot live with products that has less features and uses than earlier similar products, one has to be an idjit. That makes sense.

Tosser you are just hilarious, i almost can't stop laughing. So you are posting on this thread, WHY? No iPhone, No Touch and this gives you the knowledge to criticize and analyze the iPhone, HOW?

Please exxxccccuse me for not get the fact straignt between feature and app...oh my god I am so sorry that you can not use disc mode on your non-existant iphone/touch

Obviously how Apple is doing business is working and the good old iPhone keeps right on selling, and soooo many crippling things are keeping it from being the most popular, fastest selling cell phone in recent history.

So with that, I will gladly accept being an "idjit" and keep right on enjoying my iPhone and living with what Apple decides to allow me to use....and....if I ever decide its not enough then I will find you and ask for advise on whatever product you are using so that I will be in the right.

Have a terrific day!

 

[w00master]

If you're gonna give someone the keys to the car...make sure they can drive and have a license.

So, using your line of logic. Does Honda have to approve every CD/Radio that goes into the car? What about that seat liner? How about new lights?

w00master

 

[Hooka]

I don't need to break a warranty and jailbreak my phone to run apps, because I have a phone that actually gives the consumer some freedom over products that they paid for.

So why do you care man, you don't even have a bleeping iPhone! My god.

 

[Tosser]

Exactly. Now you're getting it. What is good for the consumer is good for Apple.

No, that wasn't your argument. Your argument is actually the opposite: What is good for Apple must be good for the consumer. Now, replace Apple with Microsoft.

Apple wants the consumer experience with the phone to be superb.

No, they want to sell products, and have their customers tied in. And they have a great amabassadeur in you.

If they let just anyone put apps out there, you're going to end up with a ton of poorly written software that will lock up the phone.

Really? I guess choice is a bad thing in your world. I guess that's why I shouldn't be able to use adobe products, omnigroup products or anything non-apple on my computer. I guess I should also just use bog-standard HP-apps/WM5-apps on my PDA. Because it will lock up otherwise

This would be a bad consumer experience...therefore bad for Apple. You see...they are the same.

Spoken like a true Apple-apologist.

 

[iSee]

I was wondering this as well, but I suspect that it will work similarly to iPod games.

I'm worried about this, too. Two things give me hope:

1. The classic iPod hardware and OS is much more limited. That puts a much heavier burden on software developers to create apps that don't have significant problems without Apple's direct help. Without these limitations, the iPhone/Touch platform is more appropriate for general development.

2. By closing the system Apple forces customers to make an all-or-nothing choice: stay in the Apple system or get out completely. As alternative systems become more compelling, more and more iPhone/Touch owners will opt *out*. (And an alternative open system *will* become more compelling. Closed systems will always be slower to react to cusomter needs. If Apple's system is too closed, you'll even see alternative OS's become populart.) Once an owner is out of the Apple system, Apple loses big-time: no song, video, or software sales, less revenue sharing from AT&T and accessory licenses, and the halo effect will be greatly diminished. Hopefully, Apple realizes this and keeps the system open. They do to some degree, since they are releasing an SDK.

...
I completely agree!

I wish you worked for Apple!

 

[w00master]

The reason its being bought up, is that we can't easily do it for computers as the cat is already out the bag, whereas we can learn from the mistakes there and try and come up with a better system for phones.



And PC gaming, which runs outside the walled garden is dying.

So, why is WOW doing so well? What about RTS games? Sorry, but people have been making this claim for years now. PC Gaming isn't going anywhere.

w00master

 

[yg17]

So why do you care man, you don't even have a bleeping iPhone! My god.

Because I think what Apple is doing is BS and have every right to state my opinion

 

[jmorrison0722]

So, using your line of logic. Does Honda have to approve every CD/Radio that goes into the car? What about that seat liner? How about new lights?

w00master

Yes, they absolutely do have to approve of it IF you desire them to continue to support your product. Image throwing a third party stereo in the Honda, which then fries the entire electrical system. Hmmm...I'm pretty sure Honda would tell you to stick it if you brought it in for warranty work.