iPhone SDK Details, First Look

[EagerDragon]

Intel Macs only!!???!!! WTH! I'm pretty sure my G4 can still handle coding! 😡

It is not the coding and compiling, the issue is probably the emulator and debugger, they run Intel code only.

I have the same issue but I understand.

 

[scotty56]

Is MMS a possibility?

 

[EagerDragon]

You people should look at the other mobile platforms for comparision.

DoCoMo keeps 9% of all imode revenue, the developers keep the remaining 91%.

Qualcomm keeps 10% of all BREW revenue, the carriers keep another 10% and the developers keep the remaining 80%.

91% of a 1000 sales versus 70% of millions of sales, ummmm 70% wins.
This is a great deal, the product is in every iPhone face, prospects don't have to remember some obscure web site and I do not need to do marketing or fight for shell space. Brilliant.

You keep with DoCoMo, ill go with iTunes.

 

[samab]

91% of a 1000 sales versus 70% of millions of sales, ummmm 70% wins.
This is a great deal, the product is in every iPhone face, prospects don't have to remember some obscure web site and I do not need to do marketing or fight for shell space. Brilliant.

You keep with DoCoMo, ill go with iTunes.

That's got to be the dumbest thing I have ever read.

DoCoMo has close to 48 million imode users. Qualcomm has something like 400-500 million CDMA users that can use BREW.

Apple has 2.5 million iphone users that are legitimately connected to the official carriers.

 

[EagerDragon]

So what about us canadians who have the Iphone?


I guess the first problem is that the software update will kill our jailbreaks and then I guess the second problem will be:


IF someone in canada manages to unlock the phone with the software update installed will they be able to buy the apps?

I mean think about the iTunes store... us poor Canadians have gotten the shaft on that one for the longest time.

Version 2.0 is going to burn jailbreak to a crisp. Most developers will move over to use the SDK. It is completely free to learn and create applications and test them in the emulator. Once they get to the final stage, they signup for the $99 dollars official program, fill out some forms, and start the last stage of testing in the real phone. After that they register the application, set a price and bingo wait for the checks to arrive.

 

[EagerDragon]

That's got to be the dumbest thing I have ever read.

DoCoMo has close to 48 million imode users. Qualcomm has something like 400-500 million CDMA users that can use BREW.

Apple has 2.5 million iphone users that are legitimately connected to the official carriers.

You are quick to insult, use your imagination man.
Obviously everyone is an idiot if they don't think your way.

How many millions of installations you have?

 

[gifford]

You people should look at the other mobile platforms for comparision.

DoCoMo keeps 9% of all imode revenue, the developers keep the remaining 91%.

Qualcomm keeps 10% of all BREW revenue, the carriers keep another 10% and the developers keep the remaining 80%.

I sell other peoples software and keep 30% (though in my situation its not me setting the rules and im not in a situation to elaborate)

Anyhow, i wonder what the development time on docomo is compared to cocoa? Probably a lot longer, hence less profit.

 

[isalex]

This is going to be HUGE. I cant wait to see it running on my phone. 😀

 

[arn]

I sell other peoples software and keep 30% (though in my situation its not me setting the rules and im not in a situation to elaborate)

Anyhow, i wonder what the development time on docomo is compared to cocoa? Probably a lot longer, hence less profit.

Comparison experiences

http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=478544&cid=22667626

Comparison pricing:

I used to develop & sell software for PalmOS.

The IDE was $500, plus $150/year to upgrade.
The major reseller I used wanted 40%, for a lower percentage they'd shove you in the back of the bus. I had my own web store set up separately, but literally got zero (nil, nada) sales from it. Mobile users tend to shop at specific sites. Without their own reputation, the little guys have to lean on the reputation of resellers (i.e. it's credible b/c it's being sold by them).

30% off the top isn't great, but it also doesn't require hosting, fulfillment, or anything else. Just ship them a binary and they send you a check in the mail each month until people stop buying (or an ABI change breaks your binary). I don't know how refunds are handled (or allowed at all), or documentation or support either, really.

Still, any info on what we can put on our own devices? I'm not interested in going back into mobile space anytime soon, just looking for a phone I can hack on personally. The SDK here is nice, but I'm still leaning towards the new openmoko when it comes out.

John Carmack from id (doom, quake fame)
http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=478544&cid=22669142

Just based on the blurbs, it looks very good -- a simulator plus debugging on the native device is the best of both worlds, and a 70% royalty deal for apps over iTunes is quite good.

The iTunes distribution channel is really a more important aspect than a lot of people understand. The ability to distribute larger applications than the over-the-air limits and effectively market your title with more than a dozen character deck name, combined with the reasonable income split make this look like a very interesting market. This type of developer / customer interaction is probably the wave of the future for mobile devices, it will be interesting to see how quickly the other players can react. Based on our experiences with the carriers, I am betting not very quickly.

 

[gr8tfly]

Bochs is an emulator, and it's entirely in software. In fact the dictionary defintion of emulator includes software emulation.

Simulation is a word normally reserved for physical events, not software eg. you simulate weather patterns not emulate them. You emulate a CPU - nobody ever says that you simulate one... it just doesnt sound right even if people could work out what you meant.

English being what it is there are exceptions and the words are close enough in meaning to be largely interchangable, but in common usage simulation is almost never used in terms of hardware.

Well, the name of the iPhone simulator in the SDK is "Aspen Simulator".....

Have to agree, they do get interchanged often. But, when doing development, and switching between integration environments, it helps to use "simulator" for software, and "emulator" for hardware. Both can include a CPU.

edit: well, in this case, the Aspen Simulator does not include CPU simulation - apparently, it is limited to simulating the h/w interfaces to the screen (tap, swipe, flick, rotate (through menu)) edit: opt to pinch, multi-touch, network, audio (I believe) edit: no audio, and GUI, except OpenGL ES isn't supported. The code, when built to run on the simulator is i386, not ARM. But, I'll still stand by my generalization on the use of the terms... 😉

 

[EagerDragon]

Come June Apple is not going to be able to make iPhones quick enough. I expect applications galore as soon as they open the gate.

This is huge, lets see what the stock does tomorrow.

 

[samab]

You are quick to insult, use your imagination man.
Obviously everyone is an idiot if they don't think your way.

How many millions of installations you have?

It's enough that Qualcomm has paid out over a billion dollars to developers.

http://brew.qualcomm.com/brew/en/about/brew_today.html#pub_dev

 

[badNameErr]

It's enough that Qualcomm has paid out over a billion dollars to developers.

http://brew.qualcomm.com/brew/en/about/brew_today.html#pub_dev

...which is only interesting if you want to developer using BREW.

 

[yoyoman]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A102 Safari/419.3)

WHY ON EARTH WOULD THEY?????

The biggest problem independent producers of software have is distribution. With the App Store, it's ON THE IPHONE. ANd it's AT A PRICE COMPETITIVE WITH TRADITONAL DISTRIBUTORS. And WITHOUT THE OPPORTUNITY COSTS OTHER CHANNELS HAVE.

Good god, man, do you know what the heck you're talking about????? Or are you so wedded to the notion of "independence" that you forget what it's for???

It is called choice. Most products can be purchased from various places. Take laundry detergent, a music CD, or the latest computer game. It would be a pretty crappy world if only WalMart could sell these items.

I can't believe how Apple-brainwashed everyone here is. Yeah, it might be convenient for me personally to shop at the WalMart a block from my house, but I'm not going to be narrow minded enough to say it is the only store that anyone will ever need, and other distribution channels are redundant, unsafe, and should be eliminated! That is madness.

your choice is to by another platform, like a dingleberry, or a palm. No one is forcing you to buy an iPhone and the supporting infrastructure that makes it a great product. Get off your soap box.

 

[samab]

...which is only interesting if you want to developer using BREW.

No, it is interesting to everyone who wants to develop for mobile phones.

The business model is the important part. Qualcomm has the same business model as DoCoMo (and if you look at DoCoMo in Europe, the European carriers takes a cut as well).

Nokia has been trying this same business model for a number of years now. Nokia launched Preminet in 2004 to have the same business model as Qualcomm.

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1035_22-5424317.html

In 2005, Nokia killed off Preminet because they wanted too much %age for revenue share.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/04/20/nokia_brew_battle/

Then in 2006, Nokia relaunch Preminet as Nokia Content Discoverer.

http://www.intomobile.com/2006/06/2...n-relaunched-as-nokia-content-discoverer.html

 

[EagerDragon]

It's enough that Qualcomm has paid out over a billion dollars to developers.

http://brew.qualcomm.com/brew/en/about/brew_today.html#pub_dev

I am going with Apple.
You are telling us how great Qualcoom is, but looks like they are not selling anything of yours as you did not answer the questions of how many applications you sold with them.

Tell you what, I am going with Apple, hope you get rich with Qualcomm.

 

[irun5k]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A102 Safari/419.3)
your choice is to by another platform, like a dingleberry, or a palm. No one is forcing you to buy an iPhone and the supporting infrastructure that makes it a great product. Get off your soap box.

The thing is, I like Apple, and I just don't want to see them turn into a poorly regarded organization with draconian tactics. I think their successful future depends on them opening up ever-so-slightly.

By successful future, I mean 5, 10, 20 years from now. And by success I don't mean just profit. Microsoft makes a lot of money, but I don't know that I'd call them completely successful. Most of the world runs Windows but when was the last time you heard someone talk about how truly great Windows is? The way people brag about Macs around the water cooler- this is the kind of thing that needs to be preserved here.

It may not be a bad thing when Jobs steps down some day. Not that he hasn't done a great job, but new ideas can't hurt. A CEO who is a little more open, a little less secretive, and has a little less of a God-complex couldn't hurt.

 

[samab]

I am going with Apple.
You are telling us how great Qualcoom is, but looks like they are not selling anything of yours as you did not answer the questions of how many applications you sold with them.

Tell you what, I am going with Apple, hope you get rich with Qualcomm.

I never said how great Qualcomm is and I am not a software developer.

I simply said that DoCoMo and Qualcomm has an established business model that Apple is trying to copy. You are in the US, so you should be familiar with Verizon Wireless Get It Now --- VZW gets 10%, Qualcomm gets 10% and the developers get the remaining 80%.

 

[EagerDragon]

I never said how great Qualcomm is and I am not a software developer.

I simply said that DoCoMo and Qualcomm has an established business model that Apple is trying to copy. You are in the US, so you should be familiar with Verizon Wireless Get It Now --- VZW gets 10%, Qualcomm gets 10% and the developers get the remaining 80%.

Interesting model, but no I moved off Verizon a while back because all they did was cripple my phone and sell me a similar service to what was originally on the phone but for a price.

I like what Apple is building here and as to number of units, wait until June and see them babies fly of the shell faster than they can make them.

Look at tomorrow Apple stock price, and also check out RIM stock price.

Man, this is HUGE.

Also notice they said they were not there to talk about hardware, so we will be hearing about iPhone Take 2 before June ant that is going to cause a lot more sales. We are looking at 12 to 15 million units by end 2008 and climbing even further next year.

 

[samab]

Interesting model, but no I moved off Verizon a while back because all they did was cripple my phone and sell me a similar service to what was originally on the phone but for a price.

I like what Apple is building here and as to number of units, wait until June and see them babies fly of the shell faster than they can make them.

Look at tomorrow Apple stock price, and also check out RIM stock price.

Man, this is HUGE.

That's like the kettle calling the teapot black. The iphone is 10x more crippled than any Verizon phone.

 

[gifford]

The thing is, I like Apple, and I just don't want to see them turn into a poorly regarded organization with draconian tactics.

i certainly would not call their tactics draconian. cautious maybe

It may not be a bad thing when Jobs steps down some day. Not that he hasn't done a great job, but new ideas can't hurt. A CEO who is a little more open, a little less secretive.

being secretive is all part of the extreme innovation process. it also ad's to the 'cool' factor, people like to dream and guess, allow everyone(or anyone in my experience) to know everything about you and intrigue/hype/coolness or whatever you want to call it is lost.
Sadly I get the impression that Steve Job's is on his way out. He was skinny, he delegated much, and openly talking of successors, this all appears to be preparation to me.

 

[badNameErr]

The business model is the important part.

Your absolutely correct. I take 70% and Apple takes the rest. Sounds good to me. 😀

 

[EagerDragon]

That's like the kettle calling the teapot black. The iphone is 10x more crippled than any Verizon phone.

So why are you here trolling?

You don't like Apple plans and obviously you think Verizon phones and services are better.

Or is it that you just like going against the grain of this forum and subject?

Never mind, I am no longer interested in this conversation.

Goodbye

 

[gwangung]

You people should look at the other mobile platforms for comparision.

DoCoMo keeps 9% of all imode revenue, the developers keep the remaining 91%.

Qualcomm keeps 10% of all BREW revenue, the carriers keep another 10% and the developers keep the remaining 80%.

And I would refer you to John Carmack's comments. Distribution channel is BIG. I understand why non-business people minimize it, but, really folks, distribution like that is HUGE.

Basically, Apple's in the ball park with Qualcomm, substantially more expensive than DoCoMo (and, substantially cheaper than material distributors, of course). I'm wondering what expenses are involved in each.
distribution channel..

 

[degrate]

Here's a few things to think about:
1. I think I read this somewhere on MacRumors - When you go to a traditional store do you think the price you pay goes entirely to the developer? Although there is no storefront here, servers, storage and datacenter costs (power and cooling), people to run those datacenters and bandwidth usage are not free or cheap.

2. 99$ a year is not bad considering the developer does not have to pay or run a website and does not pay for bandwidth or storage for the website.

3. Let's look at what Microsoft charges to be a developer: Visual Studio Professional or Teams with MSDN subscription is $2,499-$10,000, VS standard with no MSDN is $600 -$1000. Windows mobile sdk is free but you must purchase a version of VS to use it.

Apple charges nothing for xcode and ADC access is free for most content. ADC Premier is $3499 AND you get a ticket to WWDC and 10 Hardware discount. ADC Select $499 1 hardware discount. iPhone SDK is free ($99 a yr if you want support and to publish) and you must use xcode (which is free)

I think that Apple's model isn't bad at all.