iPhone SE and the missing barometer

[5105973]

It has been explained repeatedly that a barometer, paired with a GPS device, provides the most accurate form of inexpensive altitude tracking available. The iPhone is almost certainly the single-most popular run/bike/hiking tracker in the world. The SE is a great device, but Apple still doesn't seem to have gotten the message that there is a market for a small fully featured phone. I think the idea of splitting out features such that you have to buy the one with the largest screen in order to get all the other features is supremely stupid marketing.

Part of me agrees with you because that's what I want Apple to make, too. But I can't deny these things are apparently selling like hotcakes because they are a really attractively priced option compared to the rest of the lineup. I know I want one for my kid and another as an extra phone for myself because it is at the price it is. But going forward I would love to be able to return to having just one fully featured iPhone in the most compact size possible and I would be willing to pay the usual flagship phone price for such a unicorn.

 

[blinkie]

Who, other than serious orienteers, really need a barometer? And a serious orienteer should have a better one than is in a phone.

If you were orienteering you would only be allowed a map and compass.

 

[daniel1948]

It has been explained repeatedly that a barometer, paired with a GPS device, provides the most accurate form of inexpensive altitude tracking available. The iPhone is almost certainly the single-most popular run/bike/hiking tracker in the world. The SE is a great device, but Apple still doesn't seem to have gotten the message that there is a market for a small fully featured phone. I think the idea of splitting out features such that you have to buy the one with the largest screen in order to get all the other features is supremely stupid marketing.

Fully-featured = fully priced. You want all the features, you buy the 6S, not the SE. The SE is for folks who want a smaller, less expensive phone. You don't get the full feature set at a reduced price. You get a reduced feature set when you pay a reduced price, and one side-benefit of the reduced price and reduced feature set is that it fits into a slightly smaller package.

Apple makes the phone you want. It's the 6S. It has the features. But you have to pay for those features. You can't have everything unless you're willing to pay for everything. And the full feature set doesn't fit into the smaller package. It's really that simple.

 

[acorntoy]

The issue isn't about what's compatible, the issue is the actual hardware that's missing.
The barometer; I and many in this thread feel is a necessary linch pin that apple purposely & quietly glossed over. I and others here aren't as confused about it being left out as we are apple's decisions not to even mention it other than in the specs sheet.

By the way, i just finished watched a few steve jobs movies recently. He fought tooth and nail to cram extra ram and components in every apple product. And I think if he were still alive we wouldn't be having this conversation.

There are a few other components that apple has also left out over the years, but after painstakingly going over the who, whys, and whats it was clear to me why those components (fm radio being one of them) were purposely left out of their devices. Which believe it or not would have had security implications.

EDIT:

They chose to put FM into the iPod nano line but food for thought; how many of you keep sensitive documents on your nano 's ? ok bad 'example', but the nano doesn't have any direct lcd input method for personal info other than the running app AFAIK.

Eh the 5/5S didn't have it might be an issue of how much hardware they can actually shove into it.

+ You have to remember Steve Jobs also used to pick design over function, leading to issues like the iPhone 4 (still the best design IMO though) I think Steve Jobs was a wonderful CEO but people are forgetting that under his rule the company also had issues, he fought tooth and nail for every component and extra ram but lagged behind the Android competition for front facing cameras/ rear facing camera quality, multitasking and an actual wallpaper?

 

[AVN6293]

Eh the 5/5S didn't have it might be an issue of how much hardware they can actually shove into it.

+ You have to remember Steve Jobs also used to pick design over function, leading to issues like the iPhone 4 (still the best design IMO though) I think Steve Jobs was a wonderful CEO but people are forgetting that under his rule the company also had issues, he fought tooth and nail for every component and extra ram but lagged behind the Android competition for front facing cameras/ rear facing camera quality, multitasking and an actual wallpaper?

They were able to put NFC apparently in it, on top of everything else. If i needed to sacrifice some small bit of battery space to have a barometer as long as it is a true upgrade to what the 5s was when it originally came out on top of what the SE has now i would have been fine with it.

I'm sorry, but not including the barometer was just really dumb marketing.

edit:
Hopefully someone will take this opportunity to come up with a decent accessory solution that makes good use of the 3.5/io space without anything sticking out or taking up the headphone jack.
[doublepost=1463109351][/doublepost]

Fully-featured = fully priced. You want all the features, you buy the 6S, not the SE. The SE is for folks who want a smaller, less expensive phone. You don't get the full feature set at a reduced price. You get a reduced feature set when you pay a reduced price, and one side-benefit of the reduced price and reduced feature set is that it fits into a slightly smaller package.

Apple makes the phone you want. It's the 6S. It has the features. But you have to pay for those features. You can't have everything unless you're willing to pay for everything. And the full feature set doesn't fit into the smaller package. It's really that simple.

The 6s is not what dan meant by small.

 

[acorntoy]

They were able to put NFC apparently in it, on top of everything else. If i needed to sacrifice some small bit of battery space to have a barometer as long as it is a true upgrade to what the 5s was when it originally came out on top of what the SE has now i would have been fine with it.

I'm sorry, but not including the barometer was just really dumb marketing.

edit:
Hopefully someone will take this opportunity to come up with a decent accessory solution that makes good use of the 3.5/io space without anything sticking out or taking up the headphone jack.
[doublepost=1463109351][/doublepost]


The 6s is not what dan meant by small.

Small phones are now an afterthought in the market. It's amazing (but somewhat clever) that Apple even released a new one at all. The. 5SE is a true upgrade, it's much faster it has a much nicer camera and includes several features like Apple Pay. Would you be perfectly happy with it if it costed $540 and included everything but a larger screen?It does lack some things that more expensive phones have, that's life. On to your comment of "bad marketing" I don't believe I remember a barometer advertisement EVER done by Apple, all I can recall is a mention in the keynotes and maybe a little side area in a health related ad, while Apple Pay has been advertised heavily as a new feature, so actually it would have been bad marketing to not include Apple Pay with a new phone, most of the people who do have a barometer in their phones have no idea it's even in there, while most people who don't even use the feature will know about Apple Pay.

 

[AVN6293]

Small phones are now an afterthought in the market.

And yet apple sold over 3.4 million SE 's in its opening weekend. Greater than any iphone to date.
Your reply makes me laugh. I'm surprised you even bothered to post at all.

 

[geoff5093]

Fully-featured = fully priced. You want all the features, you buy the 6S, not the SE. The SE is for folks who want a smaller, less expensive phone. You don't get the full feature set at a reduced price. You get a reduced feature set when you pay a reduced price, and one side-benefit of the reduced price and reduced feature set is that it fits into a slightly smaller package.

Apple makes the phone you want. It's the 6S. It has the features. But you have to pay for those features. You can't have everything unless you're willing to pay for everything. And the full feature set doesn't fit into the smaller package. It's really that simple.

A lot of people here don't care about the price, they care more about the size. Why do small phones always mean people have to deal with lower performance and less features? Not everyone wants a giant 5.5" phone to get the best features.

 

[AVN6293]

A lot of people here don't care about the price, they care more about the size. Why do small phones always mean people have to deal with lower performance and less features? Not everyone wants a giant 5.5" phone to get the best features.

IKR! This has always been my train of thought as well. Why should i settle for less ?

 

[umbrokhan]

its 2016 so we need better selfi camera like wide selfi camera.
about storage 16Gb is to less for 4K video. minimum should be 32Gb for year 2016.
CPU and GPU is perfect. design is perfect.
i think iphone 6S should have iphone 5 body case with 4.7inch screen.
more people like iphone 5 and 5S design just needs 4.7 inch screen.

 

[AVN6293]

its 2016 so we need better selfi camera like wide selfi camera.
about storage 16Gb is to less for 4K video. minimum should be 32Gb for year 2016.
CPU and GPU is perfect. design is perfect.
i think iphone 6S should have iphone 5 body case with 4.7inch screen.
more people like iphone 5 and 5S design just needs 4.7 inch screen.

I didn't see your bottom edit. At first i thought your post was a little OT.

As for a 4.7" screen. I think between 4"~4.7" is ideal but like you said a square bezel like the iPhone 5 would have been better. Apple already has good screen ratio's. Maybe if they aimed for a 80~90% edge ratio we could all have what we want.

Personally someday i would have hoped they find a way to make a TRUE edge to edge display not this funny business samsung is putting out. Although i have to say the galaxy s6 edge does look very attractive over my nexus.

To me the SE would have been truly perfect if it had 3d touch support and a barometer.

 

[daniel1948]

A lot of people here don't care about the price, they care more about the size. Why do small phones always mean people have to deal with lower performance and less features? Not everyone wants a giant 5.5" phone to get the best features.

Lower performance? The SE has excellent performance. Fewer features, well, you can't put an SUV into a bread box. There's a limit to what will fit into any given package.

And while there certainly will be people who would pay $550 or even $1,050 for a small phone with all the features, the sales numbers for the SE demonstrate that a lot of folks like me think it's an excellent balance of size, price, and features.

... Personally someday I would have hoped they find a way to make a TRUE edge to edge display ...

How would you avoid registering clicks and swipes on the screen if it goes all the way to the edge? There'd be no way to hold it without touching the touch screen. I suppose you could have a region all the way around that does not register touches. But personally, I think an edge-to-edge screen would feel odd. As it is, I often inadvertently turn a page on my iPad because I accidentally touched the edge of the screen while holding the device. I'm glad there's a rim around the screen.

 

[AVN6293]

Lower performance? The SE has excellent performance. Fewer features, well, you can't put an SUV into a bread box. There's a limit to what will fit into any given package.

And while there certainly will be people who would pay $550 or even $1,050 for a small phone with all the features, the sales numbers for the SE demonstrate that a lot of folks like me think it's an excellent balance of size, price, and features.



How would you avoid registering clicks and swipes on the screen if it goes all the way to the edge? There'd be no way to hold it without touching the touch screen. I suppose you could have a region all the way around that does not register touches. But personally, I think an edge-to-edge screen would feel odd. As it is, I often inadvertently turn a page on my iPad because I accidentally touched the edge of the screen while holding the device. I'm glad there's a rim around the screen.

Seriously do you work for apple? It's starting to sound more and more like that as i am reading your posts.

It's time apple wakes up and smells the coffee. Give people what they want. It's no wonder their stock is at a new 52 week low.

I wonder how many people returned their SE to the apple store wondering where in the hell the barometer and 3d touch went.


As for edge to edge, people originally thought a similar thing about multitouche. They said it couldn't be done. Magically it was accomplished under steve jobs s' reign.

I'm now convinced i will be iphoneless until atleast the next year comes along.



EDIT: By the way there was at-least some good that came out of the SE being released.

iphone 5 and 5s owners can get some reprieve in the accessories market.

 

[daniel1948]

Seriously do you work for apple? It's starting to sound more and more like that as i am reading your posts.

It's time apple wakes up and smells the coffee. Give people what they want. It's no wonder their stock is at a new 52 week low.

I wonder how many people returned their SE to the apple store wondering where in the hell the barometer and 3d touch went.


As for edge to edge, people originally thought a similar thing about multitouche. They said it couldn't be done. Magically it was accomplished under steve jobs s' reign.

I'm now convinced i will be iphoneless until atleast the next year comes along.

I have no connection to Apple. I do think they make excellent gadgets. As for Apple stock, near the end of '07 it was at 28.30. With the crash of '08 it dropped to around 12. It climbed rapidly after that to around 130 a year ago, and then dropped to around 90 now. During that same period the S&P500 was almost flat by comparison. And comparing the S&P500 to AAPL over the past 12 months, their relative positions are the same now as they were then, but with AAPL having skyrocketed and then fallen back down.

The stock market is a chaotic system which combines objective numbers with the collective insanity of the investment community. The market is life and death for people who play the market, but it's just another casino for anyone else.

Clearly, the iPhone SE (and maybe any Apple device?) would be a poor choice for you. I'm very happy with mine. For me, it's the right size, has all the features I want, and came at an affordable price. If I had a suggestion for Apple, it would have been to have fewer features, so the price could have been a little lower. But I understand that in wanting fewer features I'm in the minority, so I accept what is. I think that in wanting a barometer, you are in the minority, and knowing that, they left it out so that the rest of us would not have to pay for a feature we would never use. Some good arguments have been made in this thread for having a barometer in a phone. The question is: How many iPhone SE owners would ever use it? Below a certain threshold it does not make sense to include it in an entry-level phone.

 

[thegrants82]

Now people are criticizing the mods in here? lol Lock it up and throw away the key!

Your post would actually be spot on if it wasn't completely wrong....

 

[RedOrchestra]

But no barometer!

Yeah, my wife too insists we have a barometer when we go hiking, so we bungee cord the one from the house to her pack - smiles all around.

 

[AVN6293]

I have no connection to Apple. I do think they make excellent gadgets. As for Apple stock, near the end of '07 it was at 28.30. With the crash of '08 it dropped to around 12. It climbed rapidly after that to around 130 a year ago, and then dropped to around 90 now. During that same period the S&P500 was almost flat by comparison. And comparing the S&P500 to AAPL over the past 12 months, their relative positions are the same now as they were then, but with AAPL having skyrocketed and then fallen back down.

The stock market is a chaotic system which combines objective numbers with the collective insanity of the investment community. The market is life and death for people who play the market, but it's just another casino for anyone else.

Clearly, the iPhone SE (and maybe any Apple device?) would be a poor choice for you. I'm very happy with mine. For me, it's the right size, has all the features I want, and came at an affordable price. If I had a suggestion for Apple, it would have been to have fewer features, so the price could have been a little lower. But I understand that in wanting fewer features I'm in the minority, so I accept what is. I think that in wanting a barometer, you are in the minority, and knowing that, they left it out so that the rest of us would not have to pay for a feature we would never use. Some good arguments have been made in this thread for having a barometer in a phone. The question is: How many iPhone SE owners would ever use it? Below a certain threshold it does not make sense to include it in an entry-level phone.

I wouldn't be surprised if apple starts recalling the SE and drops support for them in the coming weeks.
Its to niche, it doesn't fit the bill for a full featured phone in a compact size.

And by the way, i'm not buying that you have no connection to apple. I can tell just by your demeanor that you do.
I'd bet my last red 5$ note you either work for apple, are a authorized dealer of their products, or own apple stock yourself. Right now i'm leaning towards owning stock yourself, or have family that does.

Never the less. I've seen no filling of market need, no innovation and no lack luster from apple in the past year.
Their is cooked. They are now apple sauce. Welcome to the new Palm/Blackberry spiral fire ball of death.

 

[acorntoy]

And yet apple sold over 3.4 million SE 's in its opening weekend. Greater than any iphone to date.
Your reply makes me laugh. I'm surprised you even bothered to post at all.

Compared to 10 million with the 6/6+ and 13 million with the 6s/6s+. Even the iPhone 5 sold 5 million units in opening weekend, last iPhone close to the SE number was the 4S which managed a greater 4 million units,how did you get the info that it was greater than any iPhone to date with the SE?

 

[thegrants82]

And yet apple sold over 3.4 million SE 's in its opening weekend. Greater than any iphone to date.
Your reply makes me laugh. I'm surprised you even bothered to post at all.

Where the heck are you getting this bad data from? You are not even close.

 

[AVN6293]

Where the heck are you getting this bad data from? You are not even close.

Hardly bad data. And the 10 million for the 6s was for the entire first week. Not the opening weekend.
Most of the sales are from china. Keep in mind they have over 1.4 **BILLION** adults. Compared to the US 's messily 320 million total occupants.

Another number to reflect on is that the SE has stolen 35% market share from the 6 & 6s since it launched. Thats a pretty big chunk of the market for smaller phones that is according to some a "afterthought".

 

[G.McGilli]

I wonder how many people returned their SE to the apple store wondering where in the hell the barometer and 3d touch went.

I'm only guessing... but how many people returned their SE when they realized their was no barometer? I will say... about 75 people. Most people serious about walking, running, cycling, climbing or exercise in general have real, dedicated computers or watches/bands strapped to them or their equipment.

 

[AVN6293]

Where the heck are you getting this bad data from? You are not even close.

Sorry to burst your bubble but the data and the numbers are real. Many early baby boomers are starting to die off and people are clamoring now for older legacy products.
By the way, did you watch the keynote? There is some interesting information in there about how apple was hounded by millions of people to make a smaller iPhone.

[doublepost=1463189411][/doublepost]

I'm only guessing... but how many people returned their SE when they realized their was no barometer? I will say... about 75 people. Most people serious about walking, running, cycling, climbing or exercise in general have real, dedicated computers or watches/bands strapped to them or their equipment.

I'm sure its more than just a handful of people. But unfortunately since apple is tight lipped on its failures or anything that could even be seen to hurt the company we will never know for certain.

 

[daniel1948]

I wouldn't be surprised if apple starts recalling the SE and drops support for them in the coming weeks.
Its to niche, it doesn't fit the bill for a full featured phone in a compact size.

And by the way, i'm not buying that you have no connection to apple. I can tell just by your demeanor that you do.
I'd bet my last red 5$ note you either work for apple, are a authorized dealer of their products, or own apple stock yourself. Right now i'm leaning towards owning stock yourself, or have family that does.

Never the less. I've seen no filling of market need, no innovation and no lack luster from apple in the past year.
Their is cooked. They are now apple sauce. Welcome to the new Palm/Blackberry spiral fire ball of death.

Okay, that's hilarious! Apple recalling the SE and dropping support? What have you been smoking?

So you really think that anyone who likes Apple's gadgets must have a financial interest in the company? You can tell "by [my] demeanor"????? Again, I wonder what you've been smoking! Actually, I do own shares in a whole-market mutual fund, and that's got to have some Apple stock in it. By definition it's got shares of every company on some whole-market index, including all of Apple's competitors. But I have no other financial or commercial connection to Apple other than owning several of their gadgets. Nobody else in my family even owns an iPhone, which is sad because it means I cannot facetime with my sister or my cousin.

 

[AVN6293]

Okay, that's hilarious! Apple recalling the SE and dropping support? What have you been smoking?

So you really think that anyone who likes Apple's gadgets must have a financial interest in the company? You can tell "by [my] demeanor"????? Again, I wonder what you've been smoking! Actually, I do own shares in a whole-market mutual fund, and that's got to have some Apple stock in it. By definition it's got shares of every company on some whole-market index, including all of Apple's competitors. But I have no other financial or commercial connection to Apple other than owning several of their gadgets. Nobody else in my family even owns an iPhone, which is sad because it means I cannot facetime with my sister or my cousin.

So by your own omission you are saying you have stake in apple; but i must be smoking something ?

Sorry to be so direct but maybe you should be less concerned about what i've been smoking and more concerned about what your....... you know.

ps: Buy her a IPT? ffs they are cheap now. Just make sure its on 7.0.6 or later or on 6.1.6 (so she has all the updated certificates)

pps: depending on her age, a nano 6 or 7 might be a better starting point.

 

[acorntoy]

Hardly bad data. And the 10 million for the 6s was for the entire first week. Not the opening weekend.
Most of the sales are from china. Keep in mind they have over 1.4 **BILLION** adults. Compared to the US 's messily 320 million total occupants.

Another number to reflect on is that the SE has stolen 35% market share from the 6 & 6s since it launched. Thats a pretty big chunk of the market for smaller phones that is according to some a "afterthought".

How is it not bad data? You're proven wrong and you simply say "no" to defend yourself and spout out new numbers? . The end fact is that Apple made one of the best small phones on the market, with an outstanding processor and camera, but skimped on other features to keep the price down. You can look for an android equivalent that has "everything" but you'll find nothing close with that screen size and form factor. People who enjoy smaller phones are getting less and less quality choices, it's just the nature of the market right now. It'll probably continue to head that way, so you might have to get used to dealing with less. I think they really misses the mark on China and India $399 is great and a lot better than the last launches but they should have tried for $299 if that was their actual goal, maybe a 5CSE is in the works? I will say Tim Cook has allowed the product lineup to utterly swell.