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iPhone SE and the missing barometer
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It probably only costs apple 3-5$ if that individually for that part. And the CA-201L-J by casio fits the form factor perfectly. Only thing its missing is a faster cpu which really isn't necessary if you ask me. And square bezel.
You only have to look to the HTC M8s in a slightly larger screen form factor and the feature list balloons substantially. And I won't even go into the many many more *compact* android phones that all have barometers.
But what did i expect a iOS user to know about the vast array of android devices available.
As for the data, pre-sales to china alone prove my point.
The fact of the matter is there, and we are not going to settle for less from them.
If
wants to continue to compete in the arena they need to start catering to what people want and not just what they think people need or will buy.[doublepost=1463225715][/doublepost]edit:
And let me point out one last thing. ...(This will be my last post here since i've been nauseated by many of you.)
If the ubuntu edge had succeeded in their crowd funding I believe the overall smartphone market would have changed substantially. What its chief creators said about there not being a 'premium segment for technology' (in not so many words) is spot on. While the edge would have been a much older device at this point they were onto something when they said you need a cellphone market that is much more like the car industry in that you have 'formula One' for testing. We would all have been better off in the long run instead of anyone & everyone trying to make a buck by attempting to re-invent the wheel.
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Wow. I think that you actually believe yourself. Scary but entertaining to read.It probably only costs apple 3-5$ if that individually for that part. And the CA-201L-J by casio fits the form factor perfectly. Only thing its missing is a faster cpu which really isn't necessary if you ask me. And square bezel.
You only have to look to the HTC M8s in a slightly larger screen form factor and the feature list balloons substantially. And I won't even go into the many many more *compact* android phones that all have barometers.
But what did i expect a iOS user to know about the vast array of android devices available.
As for the data, pre-sales to china alone prove my point.
The fact of the matter is there, and we are not going to settle for less from them.
Ifwants to continue to compete in the arena they need to start catering to what people want and not just what they think people need or will buy.
[doublepost=1463225715][/doublepost]edit:
And let me point out one last thing. ...(This will be my last post here since i've been nauseated by many of you.)
If the ubuntu edge had succeeded in their crowd funding I believe the overall smartphone market would have changed substantially. What its chief creators said about there not being a 'premium segment for technology' (in not so many words) is spot on. While the edge would have been a much older device at this point they were onto something when they said you need a cellphone market that is much more like the car industry in that you have 'formula One' for testing. We would all have been better off in the long run instead of anyone & everyone trying to make a buck by attempting to re-invent the wheel.
wants to continue to compete in the arena they need to start catering to what people want and not just what they think people need or will buy.
I have a (tiny) stake in the entire stock market via a whole-market mutual fund. You are smoking something if you think this makes me a shill for any one particular company.
You seem to think that anyone who likes Apple's gadgets must be a shill.
... The fact of the matter is there, and we are not going to settle for less from them.
If
This is amusing. Apple has succeeded precisely because they build products that people want. There are always malcontents who demand this or that and cry that the company will fail because it does not give them what they want. How many people really care whether or not their phone has a barometer? I'll bet that 99% of iPhone users don't even know what to do with a barometer. And of the 1% who do, probably 1% of those actually use it.
But you should definitely not buy the iPhone SE, or maybe any Apple gadgets. The great thing about the free market is that there are lots of choices and you don't have to buy anything you don't like. Apple even gives you two weeks to return a device for a full refund, no questions asked, if you don't like it. And still it is the top U.S. company in total market capitalization.
I'd say they are competing pretty well, and doing it exactly the way you suggest: By catering to what people want.
That's your opinion and you're welcome to it. Great thing about opinions is... well you know....
I own a few apple products, that is to say i own a nano 7. But i still don't own a iPhone because you know, no barometer and 3d touch.
oh well maybe next year. Or maybe i'll cave and get a 6s with that nice eXo case (dark colored of course) from luciddream. But i gotta see if my hands grow enough to take the pain away from not reaching the top of the screen. ... so we'll see.so any chance on buying your sister a nano 5or6..?7? ? im genuinely curious now.
So you consider it "just my opinion" that Apple is the largest corporation in the U.S. by capitalization? I don't think that a consumer-products manufacturer gets to be the largest company in the country, and nearly the largest in the world (Saudi Aramco is bigger) by making products that people don't want.
I cannot imagine why you would think that my sister, who you know nothing about, would have any interest in a Nano. And, no, I do not plan on getting her one because I'm pretty sure she has no use for it.
I guess we see things very differently. Anyways, i've grown tired of this conversation. We will ultimately see what apples return stats are on the SE with the dealer i work with in july. ... should be interesting.
I can say with confidence however (from the initial reactions) that battery life is one thing many customers have been VERY happy about. Especially since they don't have to be swapped in and out as often.
And atleast people who are not getting a SE and already own a 5 or 5s will have a easier time finding accessories that fit their device.
... ...
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If the visibility is so bad as you describe, you should dig in. A barometer won't help - or are you gonna count altitude lines (whom's precision typically is 10 m anyway). How do you think hikers, climbers and skiers got along before smart phones existed?
The whole scenario is ridiculous.
[doublepost=1464430787][/doublepost]
Besides, shouldn't the gyro give the elevation with pretty good accuracy, at least if it is possible to reset it from time to time "now I am at sea level"?
We need to be talking about dopler shifting and environment teardown. NOT *just* elevation reading assist.
I think everyone here is very confused about how the barometer aids location services, and just how GPS receiver technology (client side) works.
Modern GPS cpu 's have always been far from rudimentary. In fact it's taken many years just to get to a 11mhz cpu clock cycle which has dramatically increased lock times in standalone clients.
If i could sum it up in a way that everyone can understand:
Currently there are 31 GPS satellites in orbit with a precision of about 5 meters. Currently there are also about 24 GNSS (GLONASS) satellites in orbit. Some of those satellites are spares.
At any one time or another there are about 10~14 satellites directly in a pingable path to a client traveling at hundreds of miles per hour.
You need line of site to 4 satellites at a time to get a approximate location and 7~8 to get a fixed location.
Think of the barometric pressure sensor as having a additional **2** extra satellites IN YOUR POCKET consistently there, not traveling at any high rate of speed (not that that matters much), always accurate & available no matter what the network load, interference, or down time is.
Or to put it another way. The earth is not flat!
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A gyrometer measures rotation - not elevation.
http://www.gsmarena.com/glossary.php3?term=sensors
Accelerometer and gyroscope
Accelerometers in mobile phones are used to detect the orientation of the phone. The gyroscope, or gyro for short, adds an additional dimension to the information supplied by the accelerometer by tracking rotation or twist.
Barometer
And finally, you may see a device sporting a barometer in its specs sheet. Contrary to what you may suggest, it has nothing to do with weather. Instead, the barometer is there to help the GPS chip inside the device get a faster lock by instantly delivering altitude data.
Accelerometers in mobile phones are used to detect the orientation of the phone. The gyroscope, or gyro for short, adds an additional dimension to the information supplied by the accelerometer by tracking rotation or twist.
Barometer
And finally, you may see a device sporting a barometer in its specs sheet. Contrary to what you may suggest, it has nothing to do with weather. Instead, the barometer is there to help the GPS chip inside the device get a faster lock by instantly delivering altitude data.
I'm currently on a hiking trip with a bunch of pre-teens and teens. Several of them, including my pre-teen daughter and I, have new SE's. Several more weren't able to get SE's in time for the trip due to lack of stock, but their parents have plans to get them SE's as graduation gifts or rewards for doing well in sports or school, and so forth. Not a single one these kids or their parents, nor myself for that matter, gives a hoot that there is no barometer in the SE.
The kids don't even really know what 3D Touch is. I have it on my 6S Plus but rarely use it and don't miss it at all on the SE. And while many of the parents I've talked to would balk at getting their kids a full sized 6/6S...never mind the Plus/S Plus, few balk at the SE for their kids. They see it as a less financially painful progression from the iPod touches or hand me down 5's and 4's their kids had been using. And knowing that the hardware is mostly the same as in the flagship models, the parents feel they're going to get a lot of life out of this investment.
I have several friends who have finally upgraded from 5's to 6S and 6S pluses and they didn't know about 3D Touch until I mentioned it to them and even then, don't seem to care that it's there. I think business users like it.
But a lot of buyers who just want a smart phone to use for FB or texts and selfies don't really worry too much about these extra "invisible" features. They want decent battery life, a good price point and decent cameras, which the SE delivers. The parents are loving these for their kids.
Even the poor selfie camera on the SE doesn't faze them that much because on the SE screen, really the selfies don't look that bad after all. I've taken several on this trip and they were fine. Not as good as I'd get on my 6S Plus, but passable for Facebook/Instagram purposes, and that's all the kids and the parents on the trip seemed concerned about.
I hate to admit Tim Cook got something right, but I think with the SE, he hit on a winning formula in targeting entry level users.
Don't get me wrong, I'm right there with you in wishing the SE had all the state of the art components as the bigger iPhones all tucked away in this small package. But the combination of features and price that the SE offers is still nevertheless attractive and hitting its mark.
I genuinely think you would be better off getting some of these kids a 6 or even 6s or 6+/6s+. Especially if they have big hands.
Along with the eXo from LucidDream (or popslate2) and the cinder from cupertech you just can't go wrong.
Not making them aware of their options and not fully disclosing to them the details of the purchases is doing them a grave disservice.
Not to mention it might save you money in the long run.
I couldn't disagree with these comments more
@GrumpyMom stated the case clearly for the SE in this situation
Sounded to me like the use case for a Windows Phone or one of the many surprisingly high value yet cheap Android phones. Moto G perhaps - or is the GPS too accurate on that one? ;-)
It's really a shame some of you are completely ignoring the finite technical aspects here. I just hope those of you who want to make informed purchases will look closely at the GPS/GNSS spec before making any purchases.
Also i heard someone earlier mention GLONASS was 3 meters. That was in the original spec for GLONASS but IRL tests show while lock times are quicker accuracy is still around the 4-5 meter range. A good improvement from the US s' GPS system but still insignificant.
GALILEO however should provide much better accuracy along with its SAR/SOS addon it will be a big step up for location services.
It still doesn't negate the need for the pressure sensor (which aids **ENVIRONMENT TEARDOWN**) in my humble opinion.
Also i heard someone earlier mention GLONASS was 3 meters. That was in the original spec for GLONASS but IRL tests show while lock times are quicker accuracy is still around the 4-5 meter range. A good improvement from the US s' GPS system but still insignificant.
GALILEO however should provide much better accuracy along with its SAR/SOS addon it will be a big step up for location services.
It still doesn't negate the need for the pressure sensor (which aids **ENVIRONMENT TEARDOWN**) in my humble opinion.
[doublepost=1464478020][/doublepost]
I think if cost was a factor a used M8/M8s, iphone 6/6+, or better yet a unlocked CA-201-L-J would have been better choices.
[doublepost=1464478198][/doublepost]
You sir are the reason i take clients by referral only in the new millennium. I can't wait until we do away with entitlements and child tax credits
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Er, I'm not the mom for all of these kids, so not my circus nor my monkeys as to what they buy. Their parents liked the combo of updated tech (sufficient to do Live Photos which kids think is amusing) and the significantly lower price point compared to the 6 and 6S series. Also size does matter to these kids and none of them wants a phablet--that did come up in conversation. Maybe when you get to the 16 to college aged crowd there is an increased interest in that. If so, I've yet to see that interest personally, myself.
Cinder, really? I've read nothing but complaints about them on this forum. I can't even find a vendor for them, just their indiegogo site. At $30 a pop for one, I think my friends would think I've lost the plot if I tried to suggest to them to pay an additional $50- $200 or so on a 6 or 6 Plus or 6S or 6S Plus and on top of that $30 for a screen protector.
Yes, we are talking about decently affluent people, but they didn't get that way by being crazy with their money. And only the kids that have proven they can handle the responsibility have gotten SEs. The kids who beat the hell out of their stuff or lose it are still using old hand me down devices, if any at all.
I'm not trying to give you a hard time. But i couldn't even imagine giving my child a device without first examining how they treat legacy products.
Your baseline (and their parents baseline) for these children is extremely liberal and scary.
Maybe that's just me. Just hope you aren't making a uninformed decision.
The iPhone SE is a good product, but in my eyes it needed 3D Touch and the barometer to make it usable IRL.
Gauging a childs needs as being this rudimentary without even TALKING to them about such a intimate purchase is just wrong. You are patronizing the child, leaving them misinformed, and "delinquent".
I'd be very curious to have a conversation with someone that feels a barometer in an iPhone is a useful addition when it comes to hiking/climbing.
I've always used my iPhone to pin point my position (in the rare event I wasn't sure) even before it had a barometer and now with the 6S I don't notice any difference what so ever. Paper maps.....batteries can't die.
If your hiking/climbing expedition requires a barometer the iPhone isn't going to cut it. You'll want a dedicated device. I've done a majority of the Appalachian Trail (in sections) and will use an iPhone to pinpoint my location (usually just to mark scenic areas) and haven't noticed a difference between iPhones prior to barometers to my 6S.
Personally I still find it a little gimmicky. Its good for calculating flights of steps climbed but what use is that? Maybe if you worked in an office, decide you need more exercise so you stop using the elevator and want to compare how many flights of stairs you climb between days.......? So when I go on a day hike I get information like this.
And I can't find any good apps to leverage this information in such a way that I can actually find useful.
Basically I'm glad the sensor is there on the 6S however it would not even cross my mind to not buy an iPhone because of lack of barometer even from a hiking/climbing perspective.
I've always used my iPhone to pin point my position (in the rare event I wasn't sure) even before it had a barometer and now with the 6S I don't notice any difference what so ever. Paper maps.....batteries can't die.
If your hiking/climbing expedition requires a barometer the iPhone isn't going to cut it. You'll want a dedicated device. I've done a majority of the Appalachian Trail (in sections) and will use an iPhone to pinpoint my location (usually just to mark scenic areas) and haven't noticed a difference between iPhones prior to barometers to my 6S.
Personally I still find it a little gimmicky. Its good for calculating flights of steps climbed but what use is that? Maybe if you worked in an office, decide you need more exercise so you stop using the elevator and want to compare how many flights of stairs you climb between days.......? So when I go on a day hike I get information like this.
And I can't find any good apps to leverage this information in such a way that I can actually find useful.
Basically I'm glad the sensor is there on the 6S however it would not even cross my mind to not buy an iPhone because of lack of barometer even from a hiking/climbing perspective.
If you will be using location services (GPS) then I implore you to read my above post thats in red.
Not having 3D Touch or a barometer makes a smartphone that has pretty much everything else not usable in real life?
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