iPhone SE With Larger 5.7-Inch Display May Launch in 2023, 'iPhone SE+ 5G' Also Rumored

[mkoesel]

This is where rounding gets us into trouble.... The iPhone X/pro screen is actually closer to 5.9" (5.86" if I remember correctly) where as this rumored display is around 5.68-9". That rumored display should just about fit in the current SE chassis with a bezel similar to the older pro models.

I did think about this, but as far as I know there was no information given about precise size of the rumored SE4 screen. So, for the sake of argument, I was just assuming it would be a similar fractional tenth of an inch larger than the quoted 5.7". Where did you get the figure you cite - 5.6x"?

Another thing for people to keep in mind... Old tech is cheaper to make for a finite amount of time. Sooner or later you will begin to run into obsolescence issues where in that older 4.7 LCD will end up being more expensive to make then a newer all screen OLED design. The majority of modern budget phones are using all screen OLED displays so I would imagine that antiquated 4.7 LCD is getting more expensive for Apple to procure for the SE. Transitioning to an all screen design while maintaining the same body as the current SE might actually be the more economical route.

That's quite possibly true, but I think the same would apply to other components as well - not just the screen. The slightly more modern microchips, sensors, etc. may have more commonality with what's being used in other devices and achieve better economy of scale.

I certainly don't think your theory has no merit. You might very well be correct about this even when this isn't the approach that has made the business case for the first couple generations of the phone. I suppose, to me, the XR/11 form factor, including the ~6" LCD remains the most likely. Maybe the notch goes away in favor of a hole-punch camera with power-button Touch ID, or quite possibly not.

 

[ian87w]

You have absolutely no way of knowing that unless you work for Apple, it’s extremely likely, and I would say quite plausible, that when the 14 comes out all the previous minis are completely discontinued.
So the lineup would be: SE: $399
SE+5G: $499
12: $599
13: $699
14: $799

You don't either.

Apple kept the 12 mini when the 13 was launched. It would be strange to drop it now, let alone the 13 mini. The minis are still needed to push people into spending an extra $100 for the regular version.

My take on September 2022 lineup
SE gone
128GB 11: $449
128GB 12 mini: $549
128GB 12: $649
13 mini: $599
13: $699
14: $799
14 Max: $899

This will then make room for the SE 2023 5G at $399 in Spring 2023.

 

[Zackmd1]

I certainly don't think your theory has no merit. You might very well be correct about this even when this isn't the approach that has made the business case for the first couple generations of the phone. I suppose, to me, the XR/11 form factor, including the ~6" LCD remains the most likely. Maybe the notch goes away in favor of a hole-punch camera with power-button Touch ID, or quite possibly not.

Face ID is what kills the XR/11 form factor to me. My guess is that the Face ID sensors haven't advanced as fast as Apple would have liked meaning they are still quite large and expensive. I am guessing that is why we see Touch ID integrated into the power buttons of the more budget products in Apple's lineup.

So with the train of thought that Face ID is too expensive, why put R&D into refreshing the XR/11 to work with Touch ID/latest chips when the current SE already has that R&D complete? Update the current SE logic board with the new A15 and 5G, integrate Touch ID into the power button (would require a small design change here I am guessing), and update the screen. Brand new SE with a modern enough design to satisfy most and likely cheaper to develop then a XR/11 reuse.

Again this is all just speculation and not based on anything factual... It's just what I would do if I was in Apples position of needing to update the SE but can't easily reuse old designs due to Face ID.

 

[bluecoast]

Face ID is what kills the XR/11 form factor to me. My guess is that the Face ID sensors haven't advanced as fast as Apple would have liked meaning they are still quite large and expensive. I am guessing that is why we see Touch ID integrated into the power buttons of the more budget products in Apple's lineup.

So with the train of thought that Face ID is too expensive, why put R&D into refreshing the XR/11 to work with Touch ID/latest chips when the current SE already has that R&D complete? Update the current SE logic board with the new A15 and 5G, integrate Touch ID into the power button (would require a small design change here I am guessing), and update the screen. Brand new SE with a modern enough design to satisfy most and likely cheaper to develop then a XR/11 reuse.

Again this is all just speculation and not based on anything factual... It's just what I would do if I was in Apples position of needing to update the SE but can't easily reuse old designs due to Face ID.

Makes lots of sense.

But I also think that the iPhone 8 with no home button & a thus a bigger screen along with the iPad Air’s/mini Touch ID on the wake/sleep button makes lots of sense too.

 

[ian87w]

Face ID is what kills the XR/11 form factor to me. My guess is that the Face ID sensors haven't advanced as fast as Apple would have liked meaning they are still quite large and expensive. I am guessing that is why we see Touch ID integrated into the power buttons of the more budget products in Apple's lineup.

So with the train of thought that Face ID is too expensive, why put R&D into refreshing the XR/11 to work with Touch ID/latest chips when the current SE already has that R&D complete? Update the current SE logic board with the new A15 and 5G, integrate Touch ID into the power button (would require a small design change here I am guessing), and update the screen. Brand new SE with a modern enough design to satisfy most and likely cheaper to develop then a XR/11 reuse.

Again this is all just speculation and not based on anything factual... It's just what I would do if I was in Apples position of needing to update the SE but can't easily reuse old designs due to Face ID.

I don't think FaceID is that "expensive." Apple currently is selling the iPhone 11 with FaceID for $499. Taking out the second camera and using the XR chassis, I think $399 is achievable.

At this point, I don't think retooling the chassis to accomodate TouchID on the power button made sense. The focus is saving cost, and reusing existing designs. Apple didn't even bother adding battery on the 2020SE after removing the 3D Touch layer. Redesigning the XR frame might be more expensive than just putting FaceID.

 

[Zackmd1]

I don't think FaceID is that "expensive." Apple currently is selling the iPhone 11 with FaceID for $499. Taking out the second camera and using the XR chassis, I think $399 is achievable.

At this point, I don't think retooling the chassis to accomodate TouchID on the power button made sense. The focus is saving cost, and reusing existing designs. Apple didn't even bother adding battery on the 2020SE after removing the 3D Touch layer. Redesigning the XR frame might be more expensive than just putting FaceID.

That might very well be the case... But three points I want to bring up...

- That XR at $499 doesn't have an up to date processor or 5G. The XR also only has one camera.

- The chassis of an iPhone is machined so there isn't much work/cost involved in "retooling" for a larger opening for a Touch ID power button.

- The marketing aspect... Apple seems intent on positioning Face ID as a "premium" feature. No other "budget" device from Apple has Face ID.

 

[allenvanhellen]

I will never buy a new iPhone if the smallest screen size available is any larger than the iPhone 12/13 mini. I would actually prefer something smaller than that.

 

[ksec]

One thing I forgot to mention in this whole 5.7" saga that I think its worth repeating.

5.7" 19.5:9 Edge to Edge Display like current iPhone with FaceID, will actually make the phone same size as current iPhone SE.

Which is what I originally anticipate the iPhone Mini size would be but turns out to be completely wrong.

So may be the 5.4" was the wrong size to begin with. The problem with introducing 5.7" now on SE, is that the design is specific to SE alone. And it is an LCD screen. But I agree with Touch ID on SE. Face ID's cost haven't reduced at all. But cost of 5G from modem to RF Front End and antenna is just more expensive than 4G. ( And will remain so for the foreseeable future )

 

[ian87w]

That might very well be the case... But three points I want to bring up...

- That XR at $499 doesn't have an up to date processor or 5G. The XR also only has one camera.

- The chassis of an iPhone is machined so there isn't much work/cost involved in "retooling" for a larger opening for a Touch ID power button.

- The marketing aspect... Apple seems intent on positioning Face ID as a "premium" feature. No other "budget" device from Apple has Face ID.

Do note that the FaceID used for the X/XR is an older generation, using lower res front facing camera. The one in the 11/12/13 is a newer generation with higher res front facing camera. So Apple could use the older (cheaper?) gen for the SE, which was what the XR used anyway.

It's akin to the 2016 SE, where it used the older TouchID sensor used in the 5s instead of the newer and faster one in the 6s.

The curved design of the XR chassis is not even ideal for a flat TouchID sensor on the power button. Though I can see Apple doing it once they get to the flat edges of the 12/13 design.

Looking at the 2016 SE track record, it's more likely for Apple to just discontinue the line this September. In 2018, Apple actually discontinued the 2016 SE, leaving the iPhone 7 as their cheapest iPhone at $449. I can see the same happening this September, with Apple discontinuing the 2020 SE and just used the iPhone 11 as a stopgap cheapest model at $449. It will definitely screw up all the tech bloggers with all their rumors about the SE...

 

[Titillating Bustline]

We know 2022 SE will carry only 3GB RAM, so another refresh in 2023 isn't as early as it seems.

How do we know that?

 

[badaer]

It is unlikely for Apple to adapt an iPhone mini form factor, as it sells really bad in China. Chinese truly love phones with large display. In China, every time others see my iPhone 12 mini, they ask 'How many years have you been using it?' 'Why don't you buy a new phone?' - in their mind, such a small device must be a rather old model, regardless of its all-screen display. A 5.7-inch display does make sense. It may solve the problem to some extent but still make less impact on the sales of 6.1-inch iPhone 13/14/15...

 

[JPack]

How do we know that?

Kuo

 

[mkoesel]

Face ID is what kills the XR/11 form factor to me. My guess is that the Face ID sensors haven't advanced as fast as Apple would have liked meaning they are still quite large and expensive. I am guessing that is why we see Touch ID integrated into the power buttons of the more budget products in Apple's lineup.

My thoughts are similar to ian87w on this.

The uncertainty surrounding the fourth generation SE certainly makes it fun to discuss. Exact details aside, assuming we do get an edge-to-edge screen at a $399 price point, I think it's going to be a very strong selling device.

 

[Powerbooky]

It is unlikely for Apple to adapt an iPhone mini form factor, as it sells really bad in China. Chinese truly love phones with large display. In China, every time others see my iPhone 12 mini, they ask 'How many years have you been using it?' 'Why not you buy a new phone?' - in their mind, such a small device must be a rather old model, regardless of its all-screen display. A 5.7-inch display does make sense. It may solve the problem to some extent but still make less impact on the sales of 6.1-inch iPhone 13/14/15...

Any international selling company with some sense would never use China as a single template for all other markets.

There's a demand for small sized iPhones in markets like ours, but to make it sell good Apple should try not to reduce too much on features and still stick a sky high price tag on it.

 

[JPack]

Any international selling company with some sense would never use China as a single template for all other markets.

There's a demand for small sized iPhones in markets like ours, but to make it sell good Apple should try not to reduce too much on features and still stick a sky high price tag on it.

Apple already tried selling the mini. It was poorly received globally. They’re not in the habit of selling niche products. Apple priced it less than iPhone XR and the same as the very popular iPhone 11. Still, nobody bought it.

 

[Powerbooky]

Apple already tried selling the mini. It was poorly received globally. They’re not in the habit of selling niche products. Apple priced it less than iPhone XR and the same as the very popular iPhone 11. Still, nobody bought it.

Of course... the iPhone mini was just too expensive. Compare it with the HomePod, good product but too pricey. The new HomePod mini is much lower priced, sales are much better.

 

[Thebrochure]

I would be first in line if they released another 4s-sized iPhone. Sadly, I don't think it'll ever happen again.

 

[Adarna]

iPhone SE+ 5G is such a convoluted name.

Why not "iPhone SE 5G" which is similar to "iPhone 3G"? Do you really need to remind people that it's a "Plus" model? I think the 5G will imply it be a newer iPhone

 

[ian87w]

Any international selling company with some sense would never use China as a single template for all other markets.

There's a demand for small sized iPhones in markets like ours, but to make it sell good Apple should try not to reduce too much on features and still stick a sky high price tag on it.

Apple already made a small flagship iPhone, the 12 mini, and then the 13 mini. Although I'm sure the sales are good, for Apple, clearly it's not enough. The mini did its job as a way to increase the regular iPhone prices by $100. Now people are used to buying the regular iPhone at $799. Mission accomplished, and next thing is to make something in order to increase the Pro prices.

If you think there's a demand for it, then those people saying they wanted it are not actually buying it. Just look at the comments here, many ended up buying the SE and complaint how "expensive" the mini were. And many with the mini are then complaining about the battery life. You cannot cram features in a mini simply because you cannot cheat the smaller physical size. It's weird how people wanted a small phone but then wanted triple cameras and big batteries. It's like wanting a coupe with SUV tires and can fit 10 people. Cannot cheat physics. The 13 mini imo is already an excellent compromise, and Apple at least put larger battery in it and made 128GB as base storage. Yet even then, apparently not that many people are buying it. The price is not "sky high" for iPhone as it contains the same hardware as the regular iPhone. I remember people saying they'll pay up for a small flagship.... I guess they wouldn't.

Demand for larger screen iPhone is not just in China, but pretty much everywhere, including the US as well. More and more people use their phones as their main "computer," from social media to entertainment.

 

[ian87w]

Of course... the iPhone mini was just too expensive. Compare it with the HomePod, good product but too pricey. The new HomePod mini is much lower priced, sales are much better.

And Apple made the iPhone SE.
It's clear that people just wanted cheap iPhone. The "demand" for smaller iPhone is just a ruse in hoping for a cheap iPhone.

 

[Digitalguy]

And Apple made the iPhone SE.
It's clear that people just wanted cheap iPhone. The "demand" for smaller iPhone is just a ruse in hoping for a cheap iPhone.

True. While there are people wanting high end compact phones like the mini, and willing to pay the $700 or more for them (I am one of those), the demand is too small to make financial sense for Apple, and yes, a much larger number of people just want a cheap iPhone, regardless of the size. Add to that the people that prefer touch id (especially with the pandemic) and the demand for the only touch id phone left increases further.

In the end I am starting to accept that I am in the minority and companies will not cater for my need of a high end compact phone (under 5.8in in my case), so it's up to me to adapt to the next best thing... and with the mini disappearing and Android not offering mini flagships either the next best thing is a phone of the size of the regular iPhone....

 

[snipr125]

It is unlikely for Apple to adapt an iPhone mini form factor, as it sells really bad in China. Chinese truly love phones with large display. In China, every time others see my iPhone 12 mini, they ask 'How many years have you been using it?' 'Why not you buy a new phone?' - in their mind, such a small device must be a rather old model, regardless of its all-screen display. A 5.7-inch display does make sense. It may solve the problem to some extent but still make less impact on the sales of 6.1-inch iPhone 13/14/15...

This is the iphone SE we are talking about. The iphone 12/13 mini chassis used as an SE for £399 is a completely different proposition to the currently priced 12/13 mini’s sold by Apple. Every generation thus far of the SE iphones have all been small and sold exceptionally well.

 

[ApplesAreSweet&Sour]

Whatever Apple is doing, I hope they'll do it this year instead of waiting for 2023. Yes, component shortages will be a huge challenge, but the 2020SE is severely outdated for a 2022 smartphone, mainly its severely limiting battery life. Apple cannot pretend that the SE has "acceptable" battery life for regular smartphone usage. It's embarrassing for a phone that is almost as expensive as a Galaxy S21 FE in my country.

SE 2020 is so terrible in terms of battery life that I’d only consider a SE 2022 with 5G with an A14-A15 chip if Apple’s suggested price starts at $299.

And that might not even be low enough.

-Adding 5G to the 4.7” iPhone 8 would be twice the battery life nightmare that the SE 2020 already is regardless if they add A15 or not.

 

[Powerbooky]

And Apple made the iPhone SE.
It's clear that people just wanted cheap iPhone. The "demand" for smaller iPhone is just a ruse in hoping for a cheap iPhone.

Yeah... right. "Cheap" is a relative term. Some find spending up to thousand dollars on a phone a normal thing. Even with inflation in mind, those prices are just too high IMHO. One could argue that new phones also come with special online services that cost money. But honestly, the current iPhone mini costs more than double what I paid for my SE and it has basically same (online) functionality.

True. While there are people wanting high end compact phones like the mini, and willing to pay the $700 or more for them (I am one of those), the demand is too small to make financial sense for Apple, and yes, a much larger number of people just want a cheap iPhone, regardless of the size.
...
In the end I am starting to accept that I am in the minority and companies will not cater for my need of a high end compact phone (under 5.8in in my case), so it's up to me to adapt to the next best thing...

Its a combination of factors, but trends change over time. We've seen desktop computers change in size too. Room sized business mainframes to small sized desktop "home computers" in the late 80ies. Then they got bigger again in the late 90ies, and now we have powerful small super flat Macbooks and tablets. We'll see what phones will do.

 

[svish]

Many would be interested in a larger SE with the lower price tag associated with it.