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No --- the difference in American and European "anti-trust" laws and cosumer protection laws is that the American system actual look at the consumer side. The European system looks at protecting European business interest.

The General Electric/Honeywell and Boeing/McDonnell merger deals --- had shown where the priorities of the anti-trust authorities in both sides of the Atlantic.
It is amazing how few people know this. France's anti-trust and anti-competition laws hurt consumers to benefit French big business, not only with large corporations but also in the film and music industry, severely limiting consumer choice to protect business interests. What a scam!!
 
Of course, we are talking about Europe who fought Microsoft for 5 years and got a "win" on the "forcing" Microsoft to sell a Windows XP version without the media player. Nobody figured that the big loophole is for Microsoft to charge the same price for both versions and a few hundred copies of that special xp version was sold in Europe.

European laws look good on papers when geeks tried to argue them in internet forums. In practice, these laws are pretty useless.

In the case of phone unlocking, there is no "European law". That you say that there is suggests you are either ignorant of the subject you are commenting on, or that you that you know there is no such law, but would like to convince others that there is.

So, a simple question for you: do you know what the "european law" is in relation to locked phones?
 
This whole iPhone debate is turning into a US vs. EU arm wrestling match. And if you touch Apple, you touch the USA. Sentiments aside, it is clear we are looking at ‘a great divide' here.

Please understand the somewhat precarious situation we mainland Europeans are confronted with. The SIM lock is nothing new. If you want the latest, greatest phone you have to commit yourself to any of the numerous networks we have here. That is difference number one. Yes, we are confronted with a SIM lock, but e.g. the Nokia N95 is offered by all the network operators. You still have a choice and can shop around. A two year contract means you will receive the phone for free, a one year contract means you will have to pay something in the order of 135 Euro. Not counting the bundle you are required to sign up to but I will get to this later on.

But, and this is what is really different, removing the SIM lock isn’t illegal. 10 minutes from my home is a shop called ‘The GSM Doctor’ that will remove any SIM lock for about $25. With 100% guarantee. It you unlock an iPhone you’ll wind up with a brick. With 100% guarantee. That is difference number two.

What really, really makes the difference is the up-front price of the iPhone and the tariffs. It’s very easy to dismiss our comments on this as ‘whining’ but please read on. The same iPhone that will set US citizens back $399 costs ca. $590 over here. The very same, locked and legal iPhone. That’s because Apple refuses to adjust the currency difference. Our tough luck, yes, but it all adds up. And then there’s the really, really outrageous and unprecedented plans. I mean, over $80 a month for a plan that without an iPone would be less than half isn’t very friendly. Again, this all can be dismissed with the omni present “if you don’t like it, just don’t buy an iPhone” but from ‘your’ point of view this reasoning is a bit easy, isn’t it. I would swallow all this mark-ups if only they were on par with what ‘you’ are paying. But this isn’t the case. In Europe, the iPhone is treated as the goose with the golden eggs. Our tough luck, yes, but why?
 
Your speculating, nothing more ( unless you can provide an URL ).

The signing of Symbian apps is related to Symbian 9.x new security model.

Preminent has been around since 2004.

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1035_22-5424317.html

Went through several business models already --- basically the European carriers were accusing Nokia of trying to steal money from them.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/04/20/nokia_brew_battle/

In 2006, Nokia relaunch Preminent under the new name "Nokia Content Discoverer".

http://www.intomobile.com/2006/06/2...n-relaunched-as-nokia-content-discoverer.html

This is what the Vodafone lawsuit is all about --- Vodafone is afraid that Nokia is really going to push Preminent/Nokia Content Discoverer.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/20/vodafone-germany-obtains-restraining-order-against-t-mobile-ipho/

In the case of phone unlocking, there is no "European law". That you say that there is suggests you are either ignorant of the subject you are commenting on, or that you that you know there is no such law, but would like to convince others that there is.

So, a simple question for you: do you know what the "european law" is in relation to locked phones?

There is no single "European law" on simlocking.

However there is a certain "truthiness" about people's general misunderstanding of these so-called simlocking laws in various European countries.

People said Ofcom has a "must unlock" law for prepaid phones (or phones purchased outright) and "must unlock" after the contract expired in the UK --- totally wrong.

People said that there are a number of countries in Europe that outright forbids simlocking --- they are wrong. Belgium is the only country that outright forbids simlocking.

Somehow people just think that if carrier x in European country y is selling phones unlocked --- then they automatically think that this particular country forbids simlocking --- not true. Or carrier x in European country y is selling unlocking codes for z dollars --- then they automatically think this particular country have some laws that force the carriers to provide unlocking codes, again not true.
 
People said Ofcom has a "must unlock" law for prepaid phones (or phones purchased outright) and "must unlock" after the contract expired in the UK --- totally wrong.

All phones purchased outright are unlocked from the start. Please find me one phone in Europe that purchased outright has a carrier lock, aside from the iPhone.
 
And then there’s the really, really outrageous and unprecedented plans. I mean, over $80 a month for a plan that without an iPone would be less than half isn’t very friendly. Again, this all can be dismissed with the omni present “if you don’t like it, just don’t buy an iPhone” but from ‘your’ point of view this reasoning is a bit easy, isn’t it. I would swallow all this mark-ups if only they were on par with what ‘you’ are paying. But this isn’t the case. In Europe, the iPhone is treated as the goose with the golden eggs. Our tough luck, yes, but why?

It all goes back to the mis-conception that people think that there are sufficient competition among mobile carriers in Europe.

Verizon Wireless not only had the guts to refuse the iphone deal --- their net adds in Q3 didn't get affected at all by AT&T's iphone launch. AT&T only got 1.4 million subscribers in net adds on its own (the other 600K came from MVNO resellers) in Q3. Verizon Wireless got 1.8 million subscribers in net adds on its own in Q3.

All phones purchased outright are unlocked from the start. Please find me one phone in Europe that purchased outright has a carrier lock, aside from the iPhone.

3 UK superglued the sim card in their "outright" prepaid phones.

http://www.mobileburn.com/news.jsp?Id=2096
 
3 UK superglued the sim card in their "outright" prepaid phones.

http://www.mobileburn.com/news.jsp?Id=2096

3 is a phone carrier, if you go to an electronics store or a phone store not associated with a carrier and purchase a phone it comes unlocked.

Also no where in the article is it stated how the phones are sold. Since 3 is a carrier and not a just a regular retail outlet then it's not impossible that some form of subsidy is included.
 
3 is a phone carrier, if you go to an electronics store or a phone store not associated with a carrier and purchase a phone it comes unlocked.

Also no where in the article is it stated how the phones are sold. Since 3 is a carrier and not a just a regular retail outlet then it's not impossible that some form of subsidy is included.

I am just saying that there are a lot of mis-conceptions around on how these supposed simlock laws were perceived wrongly.

There is no legal distinction of buying something "outright".

You can buy a house "leasehold" --- i.e. you buy the building, but not the land. You can buy a one-time use disposible digital camera (i.e. you can't get the digital files out). You can buy the old defunct DIVX disc that will allow you to watch a movie for only a 48 hour period.

Why can't I design a cell phone that you can purchase "outright" that is a single use cell phone or a cell phone with a life span of 48 hours?
 
The same iPhone that will set US citizens back $399 costs ca. $590 over here. The very same, locked and legal iPhone. That’s because Apple refuses to adjust the currency difference. Our tough luck, yes, but it all adds up.

it costs more to do business in europe, and the cost is reflected in the product price.
 
It all goes back to the mis-conception that people think that there are sufficient competition among mobile carriers in Europe.

Verizon Wireless not only had the guts to refuse the iphone deal --- their net adds in Q3 didn't get affected at all by AT&T's iphone launch. AT&T only got 1.4 million subscribers in net adds on its own (the other 600K came from MVNO resellers) in Q3. Verizon Wireless got 1.8 million subscribers in net adds on its own in Q3.

There is, don't confuse the UK with mainland Europe. I don't know Verizon. But all would-be competion is killed outright anyway: just one provider per coutry who has the right to sell that golden egg. Over and out.
 
There is, don't confuse the UK with mainland Europe. I don't know Verizon. But all would-be competion is killed outright anyway: just one provider per coutry who has the right to sell that golden egg. Over and out.

Well, France has only 3 national carriers --- that's too little competition.

UK has 4 similar sized national carriers + 1 really small national carrier (3 UK, which Superman Li is more interested in either getting his money back by selling it or by IPO'ing it than actually running a national carrier).

Germany has 4 national carriers, but their national regulator is noticeably silent on the whole iphone lawsuit by Vodafone. German regulators have historically babied DT/TMO.
 
it costs more to do business in europe, and the cost is reflected in the product price.

The MacBook was released May 16, 2006.

At that time, it was priced € 1049,- which at that time was $ 1398 (rate: 1.33310)
Currently, it's priced € 1049,- which is about $ 1555 (rate: 1.48240)

Has doing business become 11% more expensive all of the sudden? And it was already expensive in the first place.
 
In the French store chain Carrefour the iPhone has been on display unlocked at €750, available in december. The german pricing is maybe a bit on the safe side.
 
Competition, Regulation, the Consumer and the iPhone

Having spent the last hour reading through almost 14 pages of posts, it seems clear that many respondents are simply talking past one another on a variety of issues such as competition in the market place, corporate greed, governmental regulation, divergent political systems etc. Others have gone out of their way to compare apples to oranges, thrown in red herrings to deflect or obfuscate the arguments of others or simply twist facts to support the "truthiness" of their own belief systems. Soviet Ministries indeed!

In the spirit of disclosure and in order to place my comments below in context, I am an American that adores Europe and who would gladly live the rest of his life in London, Paris or Berlin (three of my favorite cities!) if I were free of family obligations. That said, I am a firm believer in free markets operating under full and fair competition (as the least offensive economic system devised so far), but only so long judicious regulation said markets ensures that they remain full and fair.

The sale of the iPhone raises several different but interrelated questions. Should the IPhone be available as an unlocked, stand alone product similar to Apple's other products? Is it legal in jurisdiction X for Apple and its cell phone partner to sell its iPhone only as a locked product? In jurisdictions requiring some form of unlocking, can Apple (and/or its cell phone carrier partner) comply by offering an unlocked phone at a price close to the cost that a consumer would have incurred if the consumer had purchased the locked phone in combination with the carrier contract? Is Apple's heterodox profit sharing plan with cellular carriers a good thing for the market place and/or the consumer. Is Apple becoming the very sort of high handed, share holder driven, money-grubbing corporation that it attempts distinguish itself from (e.g., Microsoft, IBM, telcos, cable providers, etc.)? In other words, has Apple the company lost faith with the Mac users and does this bode ill to the in roads it is attempting to make in its core computer business as well as its burgeoning consumer electronics business?

Right off the bat, it seems to me prudent to lay to rest the debate about whether the iPhone is subsidized the the cell phone carriers or whether, in fact, Apple's price point is reasonable in view of the pricing of the iTouch iPod, which provides substantially the same hardware functionality minus the phone functions. This is not a trivial point as some have suggested because recent changes in laws in North America and Europe to allow SIM locking were rationalized by the carriers as a way for them to recoup subsidies that they provide on high end phones through customer retention. Samab and others have repeatedly pointed out that it is virtually impossible to determine this point objectively because of the way costs and investment accounting can be twisted. However none of this is really germane. Apple itself has stated to its shareholders on several occasions that it does not receive any PHONE subsidies from its carrier partners. In addition, Apple has priced its iTouch iPods similarly to its iPhone product, with the cost delta reasonably derived from the hardware/software differences between the two products. At least in the U.S., representations made to share holders have strict legal ramifications. It would be impossible therefore for Apple to report profits/write offs on the iPhone as subsidy income after making unequivocal public statements that the phone is in fact not subsidized. The importance of this point will become apparent in the discussion below regarding SIM locking as a way to recover handset subsidies by the telcos.

Should Apple sell the iPhone unlocked? Apple can of course do as it pleases, subject to local law. It seems clear on the evidence to date, however, that Apple's customer unfriendly stance of selling only locked phones was a calculated ploy to force its partners into "fee sharing" arrangements. I am completely unconvinced by the arguments of certain Apple apologists that the big bad telcos are "forcing" Apple to do this. If that were so, why hasn't Nokia, or any other phone manufacturer, been forced to offer its flagship products as single carrier lockins fro market to market.

Is it legal in jurisdiction X for Apple and its cell phone partner to sell its iPhone only as a locked product? This is fact fact the case in North America, and I have no reason to disbelieve Samab's assertion that this is fact fact the case in most European jurisdictions, save Belgium. In the case of Germany, however, I do not believe that T-Mobile's position is unassailable as some have suggested. In order to succeed in a motion for a preliminary injunction, one must show a likelihood of success on the merits at trial. In other words, those suing T-Mobile must have shown that their interpretation of the unlocking requirements under German law were correct and likely to succeed. I'm not sure that the failure of German regulators means anything notwithstanding Samab's assertion otherwise. In the U.S., court decisions based on law always trump regulatory findings, otherwise non elected regulatory officials would have no accountability.

In jurisdictions requiring some form of unlocking, can Apple (and/or its cell phone carrier partner) comply by offering an unlocked phone at a price close to the cost that a consumer would have incurred if the consumer had purchased the locked phone in combination with the carrier contract? Once again, this will be a matter specific to each particular jurisdiction. However, laws or regulations requiring unlocking would be worthless ab initio if the carrier could circumvent the spirit of the law by offering the "unlocked" product at a price similar to or the same as the locked product plus contract fees. Many of the most vocal supporters of carriers being allowed to force the consumer to buy a locked phone justify this on the basis of the carrier being able to provide consumers with subsidized high end phones. I'm not sure I see how the consumer benefits since she is locked into a long term contract that usually entails stiff penalties to break and which ultimately extract the cost of the non-subsidized phone from the consumer over the term of the contract. However, this simply isn't an argument one can make with the iPhone, since the iPhone by Apple's own admission is not subsidized. Apple's rationale for locking the phone is to provide a captive consumer pool to the carrier in order for Apple to extract revenue from the carrier. I see no consumer benefit here at all. Think Different indeed! In fact, I find Apple's actions here to be highly anti-consumer in that it sets a precedent for making the cell phone market more vertically integrated and proprietary over time, thereby reducing effective and fair competition. In effect the consumer ends up paying more for less choice in carrier and ultimately in the availability of fewer features and plans.

Is Apple becoming the very sort of high handed, share holder driven, money-grubbing corporation that it attempts distinguish itself from (e.g., Microsoft, IBM, telcos, cable providers, etc.)? In other words, has Apple the company lost faith with the Mac users and does this bode ill to the in roads it is attempting to make in its core computer business as well as its burgeoning consumer electronics business? Sadly, I think both preceding questions must be answered in the affirmative. I've been an Apple supporter since the late 1980's and whethered the derisive comments from friends and colleagues in the late 90's when everyone told me that I had bought into a "dead platform." I was over joyed to see the turn around in Apple's fortunes following the introduction of the iMac, iPod, iTunes and the rest. Of late, I've become dismayed by both Apple's attitude and actions as a company, from its smug advertising campaigns, to shoddy workmanship on some of its products (and its tendency to minimize its own missteps and blame its customers - discolored iBook palm rests or scratched iPod screens anyone?) But what troubles me the most is the growing sense of rapacious greed that seems to be pervading the company from accounting snafus designed to make the corporate elite even richer (say Steve, are enjoying those back date share options?). When a company values the exceedingly short term interests of its share holders more than its customer base, it is definitely heading down the wrong road. How many off us thought Apple would try and fleece its iPhone early adopters in such a blatant fashion.

In the end, you can enjoy the technology and try and spur the company on to do its best without having to be a cooky religious fanatic for ever apologizing or explaining away everything bad that Apple does. I think the iPhone is indeed a phenomenal product that will redefine the way people interact with their phones. That doesn't mean that I want to be ripped off as an early adopter; told I can't access and use the hardware that I've lawfully purchased by preventing its use as a hard disk or preventing the instalation of third party apps; nor do I want to be told that the only way I can have a precious iPhone is to sign up with Apple's annointed choice of cell phone carrier (IMHO the WORST carrier in the U.S.) so I can pay inflated rates from which Apple gets a substantial kick back. Apple shouldn't have to tax us through the back door to extract the profit it thinks it deserves from each phone. In a truly capitalistic, market driven system, Apple would charge up front what it thinks the phone is worth, let us use it as we want, and then let the chips fall where they may.
_______________________
PowerBook 1.0 GHZ G4, MacBook 2.0 GHZ, MacMini 1.66 GHZ, Intel iMac AluGlass 24 inch; 5 GB G1 iPod, 30 GB G5 iPod, iPod Touch 16 GB; Airport Extreme Gigabit Router
 
The MacBook was released May 16, 2006.

At that time, it was priced € 1049,- which at that time was $ 1398 (rate: 1.33310)
Currently, it's priced € 1049,- which is about $ 1555 (rate: 1.48240)

Has doing business become 11% more expensive all of the sudden? And it was already expensive in the first place.

In practice we learn to live with it, pricing has always been based on "what can we ask in that region" and not the exact rate. Why els are official CD's, DVD's and software like Windows cheaper in the asian country's?

Apple is more or less adjusting its price to the lower dollar but not every week and has always a 20% VAT calculated in the price, more taxing in general and a much higher cost for personnel / labor.
 
Apple is more or less adjusting its price to the lower dollar but not every week and has always a 20% VAT calculated in the price, more taxing in general and a much higher cost for personnel / labor.

Designed by Apple in California,
Made in China

Now tell me how is there a higher personnel cost in Europe if Europeans on average have a lower GDP Per Capita / PPP?

Now is producing in China more expensive if they ship it to Europe instead of the USA? NO!

Is Designing in California more expensive if they ship it to Europe instead of the USA? NO!

Now apart from higher TAXes and tolls/duties I don't see why we should pay a premium and why it should be more expensive in Europe!

Even after calculating out the difference from Tax and Duties, we still pay a horrid premium.

Oh... And the iPhone... I really really dislike it... If I were you guys, I'd rather get an N95.

N95 vs. iPhoneis:
1) N95 is cheaper and just as nice looking
2) 5mp Camera vs. lousy 2mp camera
3) Flashlight photography
4) Symbian OS open to any coder vs. Closed propietary Apple OS
5) Battery Replaceable vs. pay a premium for a thing that needs to replaced after one or two years
6) has UMTS and can be used as a modem for laptops vs. slow, old, outdated EDGE/GPRS
7) No Provider or Simlock
8) No rip-off phone plans.
9) capable of all that multimedia stuff the iPhone isn't such as: Video Telephony, MMS, PTT, ...
10) It can do most of the things the iPhone can such as surfing the net and more, and in most cases better and more conveniently.
 
There is no legal distinction of buying something "outright".

You can buy a house "leasehold" --- i.e. you buy the building, but not the land.

You are absolutely wrong. When you BUY a property, you own everything in the home, all the land that home includes (the "lot"), as well as anything under the ground (but not the airspace above). Arrangements otherwise are rather uncommon and are ALWAYS accompanied by explicit definitions within the sales contract.

This is why I (and many others) object to iPhone locks. It is also poor business sense. Apple made this same mistake with the Mac line. They kept the prices high and limited what users could do. Ultimately the less expensive but more dynamic PCs won out. The current revival of Mac is probably driven in part by the flexibility offered by boot camp and emulators.
 
Is it just I, or does anyone else here get the impression that Archie, who joined 11/21/07, works for Nokia?
 
The MacBook was released May 16, 2006.

At that time, it was priced € 1049,- which at that time was $ 1398 (rate: 1.33310)
Currently, it's priced € 1049,- which is about $ 1555 (rate: 1.48240)

Has doing business become 11% more expensive all of the sudden? And it was already expensive in the first place.

Their expenses in Eurpoe are in euros as well, so the exchange doesn't matter... €1049 is €1049...
 
Having spent the last hour reading through almost 14 pages of posts, it seems clear that many respondents are simply talking past one another on a variety of issues such as competition in the market place, corporate greed, governmental regulation, divergent political systems etc. Others have gone out of their way to compare apples to oranges, thrown in red herrings to deflect or obfuscate the arguments of others or simply twist facts to support the "truthiness" of their own belief systems. Soviet Ministries indeed!

In the spirit of disclosure and in order to place my comments below in context, I am an American that adores Europe and who would gladly live the rest of his life in London, Paris or Berlin (three of my favorite cities!) if I were free of family obligations. That said, I am a firm believer in free markets operating under full and fair competition (as the least offensive economic system devised so far), but only so long judicious regulation said markets ensures that they remain full and fair.

The sale of the iPhone raises several different but interrelated questions. Should the IPhone be available as an unlocked, stand alone product similar to Apple's other products? Is it legal in jurisdiction X for Apple and its cell phone partner to sell its iPhone only as a locked product? In jurisdictions requiring some form of unlocking, can Apple (and/or its cell phone carrier partner) comply by offering an unlocked phone at a price close to the cost that a consumer would have incurred if the consumer had purchased the locked phone in combination with the carrier contract? Is Apple's heterodox profit sharing plan with cellular carriers a good thing for the market place and/or the consumer. Is Apple becoming the very sort of high handed, share holder driven, money-grubbing corporation that it attempts distinguish itself from (e.g., Microsoft, IBM, telcos, cable providers, etc.)? In other words, has Apple the company lost faith with the Mac users and does this bode ill to the in roads it is attempting to make in its core computer business as well as its burgeoning consumer electronics business?

Right off the bat, it seems to me prudent to lay to rest the debate about whether the iPhone is subsidized the the cell phone carriers or whether, in fact, Apple's price point is reasonable in view of the pricing of the iTouch iPod, which provides substantially the same hardware functionality minus the phone functions. This is not a trivial point as some have suggested because recent changes in laws in North America and Europe to allow SIM locking were rationalized by the carriers as a way for them to recoup subsidies that they provide on high end phones through customer retention. Samab and others have repeatedly pointed out that it is virtually impossible to determine this point objectively because of the way costs and investment accounting can be twisted. However none of this is really germane. Apple itself has stated to its shareholders on several occasions that it does not receive any PHONE subsidies from its carrier partners. In addition, Apple has priced its iTouch iPods similarly to its iPhone product, with the cost delta reasonably derived from the hardware/software differences between the two products. At least in the U.S., representations made to share holders have strict legal ramifications. It would be impossible therefore for Apple to report profits/write offs on the iPhone as subsidy income after making unequivocal public statements that the phone is in fact not subsidized. The importance of this point will become apparent in the discussion below regarding SIM locking as a way to recover handset subsidies by the telcos.

Should Apple sell the iPhone unlocked? Apple can of course do as it pleases, subject to local law. It seems clear on the evidence to date, however, that Apple's customer unfriendly stance of selling only locked phones was a calculated ploy to force its partners into "fee sharing" arrangements. I am completely unconvinced by the arguments of certain Apple apologists that the big bad telcos are "forcing" Apple to do this. If that were so, why hasn't Nokia, or any other phone manufacturer, been forced to offer its flagship products as single carrier lockins fro market to market.

Is it legal in jurisdiction X for Apple and its cell phone partner to sell its iPhone only as a locked product? This is fact fact the case in North America, and I have no reason to disbelieve Samab's assertion that this is fact fact the case in most European jurisdictions, save Belgium. In the case of Germany, however, I do not believe that T-Mobile's position is unassailable as some have suggested. In order to succeed in a motion for a preliminary injunction, one must show a likelihood of success on the merits at trial. In other words, those suing T-Mobile must have shown that their interpretation of the unlocking requirements under German law were correct and likely to succeed. I'm not sure that the failure of German regulators means anything notwithstanding Samab's assertion otherwise. In the U.S., court decisions based on law always trump regulatory findings, otherwise non elected regulatory officials would have no accountability.

In jurisdictions requiring some form of unlocking, can Apple (and/or its cell phone carrier partner) comply by offering an unlocked phone at a price close to the cost that a consumer would have incurred if the consumer had purchased the locked phone in combination with the carrier contract? Once again, this will be a matter specific to each particular jurisdiction. However, laws or regulations requiring unlocking would be worthless ab initio if the carrier could circumvent the spirit of the law by offering the "unlocked" product at a price similar to or the same as the locked product plus contract fees. Many of the most vocal supporters of carriers being allowed to force the consumer to buy a locked phone justify this on the basis of the carrier being able to provide consumers with subsidized high end phones. I'm not sure I see how the consumer benefits since she is locked into a long term contract that usually entails stiff penalties to break and which ultimately extract the cost of the non-subsidized phone from the consumer over the term of the contract. However, this simply isn't an argument one can make with the iPhone, since the iPhone by Apple's own admission is not subsidized. Apple's rationale for locking the phone is to provide a captive consumer pool to the carrier in order for Apple to extract revenue from the carrier. I see no consumer benefit here at all. Think Different indeed! In fact, I find Apple's actions here to be highly anti-consumer in that it sets a precedent for making the cell phone market more vertically integrated and proprietary over time, thereby reducing effective and fair competition. In effect the consumer ends up paying more for less choice in carrier and ultimately in the availability of fewer features and plans.

Is Apple becoming the very sort of high handed, share holder driven, money-grubbing corporation that it attempts distinguish itself from (e.g., Microsoft, IBM, telcos, cable providers, etc.)? In other words, has Apple the company lost faith with the Mac users and does this bode ill to the in roads it is attempting to make in its core computer business as well as its burgeoning consumer electronics business? Sadly, I think both preceding questions must be answered in the affirmative. I've been an Apple supporter since the late 1980's and whethered the derisive comments from friends and colleagues in the late 90's when everyone told me that I had bought into a "dead platform." I was over joyed to see the turn around in Apple's fortunes following the introduction of the iMac, iPod, iTunes and the rest. Of late, I've become dismayed by both Apple's attitude and actions as a company, from its smug advertising campaigns, to shoddy workmanship on some of its products (and its tendency to minimize its own missteps and blame its customers - discolored iBook palm rests or scratched iPod screens anyone?) But what troubles me the most is the growing sense of rapacious greed that seems to be pervading the company from accounting snafus designed to make the corporate elite even richer (say Steve, are enjoying those back date share options?). When a company values the exceedingly short term interests of its share holders more than its customer base, it is definitely heading down the wrong road. How many off us thought Apple would try and fleece its iPhone early adopters in such a blatant fashion.

In the end, you can enjoy the technology and try and spur the company on to do its best without having to be a cooky religious fanatic for ever apologizing or explaining away everything bad that Apple does. I think the iPhone is indeed a phenomenal product that will redefine the way people interact with their phones. That doesn't mean that I want to be ripped off as an early adopter; told I can't access and use the hardware that I've lawfully purchased by preventing its use as a hard disk or preventing the instalation of third party apps; nor do I want to be told that the only way I can have a precious iPhone is to sign up with Apple's annointed choice of cell phone carrier (IMHO the WORST carrier in the U.S.) so I can pay inflated rates from which Apple gets a substantial kick back. Apple shouldn't have to tax us through the back door to extract the profit it thinks it deserves from each phone. In a truly capitalistic, market driven system, Apple would charge up front what it thinks the phone is worth, let us use it as we want, and then let the chips fall where they may.
_______________________
PowerBook 1.0 GHZ G4, MacBook 2.0 GHZ, MacMini 1.66 GHZ, Intel iMac AluGlass 24 inch; 5 GB G1 iPod, 30 GB G5 iPod, iPod Touch 16 GB; Airport Extreme Gigabit Router

Overanalyzed. Overwritten. Second year law student?
 
Is it just I, or does anyone else here get the impression that Archie, who joined 11/21/07, works for Nokia?

I've read a few of his posts.... I have to say, Nope! He shows knowledge of Nokia products but that doesn't make him a Nokia Employee, anymore than anyone who has Apple product knowledge makes them an Apple employee.
 
I've read a few of his posts.... I have to say, Nope! He shows knowledge of Nokia products but that doesn't make him a Nokia Employee, anymore than anyone who has Apple product knowledge makes them an Apple employee.

Read all 18. They demonstrate more than knowledge. There's advocacy. I say yep. And he's not the only newbie with suspect motives.
 
The MacBook was released May 16, 2006.

At that time, it was priced € 1049,- which at that time was $ 1398 (rate: 1.33310)
Currently, it's priced € 1049,- which is about $ 1555 (rate: 1.48240)

Has doing business become 11% more expensive all of the sudden? And it was already expensive in the first place.

higher local tax, weak dollar, shipping, more red tape, products have to be tailored to each country and each country has a smaller population. it costs more on every turn, storage, tranport (fuel MUCH more expensive than states), i could go on forever.
Pretty much every capital city in europe is just more expensive than anywhere in the world...
"London has climbed three positions to second place in the ranking (score 126.3). “Steep property rental costs, together with the strengthening of the British Pound compared to the US Dollar, have contributed to the city’s high ranking,” commented Yvonne Traber.

Other costly European cities include Copenhagen in 6th place (110.2), Geneva in 7th (109.8) and Zurich in 9th (107.6). Oslo remains in 10th place with a score of 105.8 while Milan climbs two places to position 11 (104.4). Sofia in Bulgaria is Europe’s least expensive city in 108th place with a score of 72.5.

The strengthening of the Euro has resulted in a number of European cities moving significantly up the ranking this year. For example, Stockholm has moved up from 36th position to reach 23rd place (score 93.1) while Amsterdam has climbed from 41st position to 25th (92.2). Cities in Spain, Greece, Germany and the UK also rank notably higher this year."

other than new york, the US barely get a look in on the 'damned expensive places to live and do business list"

most people seem to think there is some great conspiracy, there isnt
 
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