iPhone without Contract in Germany? - 999€ UPDATE: Confirmed + 600€ for an unlock!

[JonasLondon]

WTF, that makes no sense. An iPod Touch with Bluetooth, modem and speaker/mic does not add that much to the cost.

Bad Apple.

At this stage an iPod Touch is looking better for me.

No offense, but Ithink you're missing the point: T-Mobile /Deutsche Telekom (which sucks to a large extent in Germany - been there, done it) was threatened to have to pay up to 250,000 Euro PER iPhone (!) in theory (this would probably not be enforced fully as even T-Mobile doesn't have unlimited funds, but it is still kind of sick). At this point, they "complied" by unlocking it, but only at a cost where the people who wanted an unlocked one because they can't afford the contract will notbe able to afford the unlocked phone. Apple has "next to nothing" to do with this, as they clearly want T-Mobile to stick to their agreement, i.e. sell iPhones WITH CONTRACT ONLY. However. obviously Apple does not want to see its business partner up in legal battles and paying through the nose and ears to its competitor Vodafone, so it probably "agreed" on this "way out" (for the T-Mobile/Deutsche Telekom) as a temporary solution. Obviously this whole thing willbe decided by the trigger happy German lawyers (I think they're becoming a little like the States nowadays... suing left right and center for "silly" things - see eBay seller ruling for WAP devices not being able to "see" an embedded graphci in the listing with 100% certainty etc. bs).

That all being said, having lived in Germany for more than 25 years and now living in London, I believe 35 GBP/months is "affordable" for a lot more Brits than 50 Euro is for the Germans.

I love my iPhone anyways, WiFi and EDGE rock!

 

[gifford]

Yes you are currently paying more for the device than the the sum of the parts.
Yes you are paying somewhat on top of that.
This is business!!! Pretty much every tech device follows the same route, you try and recoup some of the development costs from initial buyers xbox, wii, ps3 ps2 ps, every camera, every phone, it all eventually comes down in price. Why do you think Apple has to act different??

you can not compare the ipod touch. as i have said elseware, the ipod touch is an established money generating device, with all the various products apple sells off the back of it.
Once the iphone expands it market, pays off a few initial development costs, lawyers bills, adds a bigger HD so they can sell you more video and music, it will start to provide its own profitable ecosystem, then the price will come down to what you CURRENTLY expect it to be.

I wish life was as simple as some of you think it is!

 

[Cleve]

That!

Does this mean that some clever hacker somewhere will be able to see what is contained in the unlock coding and then unlock all 1.1.2 iPhones?

that is the million dollar (or at least $1499-$399=$1100) question!

 

[snowfall]

Either way, people are making way too much of a big deal about it...bringing the courts into it because they don't like when two companies do business together. Do people have nothing better to do with their lives???? Get a job.

Well, if the two companies were doing business together in a vacuum I'd agree, but when those two said businesses are dealing with consumers and consumers rights, then that's a whole other situation... AKA the real world.

An unlocked phone leads to more choice, more choice should lead to more competitiveness and better service from companies, and I'm guessing that's what German law is promoting. That's a different issue than cell phone contracts. Cell phone company contracts with free or subsidized phones are a bit like installment payment plans... either pay their full price up front or pay month by month via their plan. I just haven't seen a consumer cost-comparison or other study that demonstrates the real price premium.

As for "whiny users", depends what they're using it for. If you spend significant time traveling (or live in two different countries like I do), an unlocked phone is a godsend. And if you paid back the phone company by going through a 2 year contract, why should you still be tied to that company? That would be like finishing payment on your car loan but still having to buy gas through your bank...

 

[MacCheetah3]

Hi
LMAO!!! There's your greedy unlocked option. Have fun paying $1,500 for it, probably more on eBay. ...Priceless.

While I'm for openness ( unlocked phones, ... ), I hate these BS methods of trying to get it and I have no problem with certain phones being SIM-locked [or DRM songs, ...]. -- even exclusives There is plenty of choice out there if you don't prefer a locked phone [or DRM song, ...] and no reason to get selfish. You get all that you deserve.

 

[Darkroom]

man, i miss the old days when we talked about actual computers on this site, instead of lawsuits and multi gazillion dollar telecommunications companies...

RIP apple computer...

*sigh*

 

[gifford]

Hi
LMAO!!! There's your greedy unlocked option. Have fun paying $1,500 for it, probably more on eBay. ...Priceless.

While I'm for openness ( unlocked phones, ... ), I hate these BS methods of trying to get it and I have no problem with certain phones being SIM-locked [or DRM songs, ...]. -- even exclusives There is plenty of choice out there if you don't prefer a locked phone [or DRM song, ...] and no reason to get selfish. You get all that you deserve.

LOL!! too true!

 

[JonasLondon]

The Advantage has 8GB, 3G, GPS and a VGA screen, and is 480 euros on a 40 euro contract, and 750 euros unlocked. Not really comparable or par for the course.

Go buy it then, it's a free market. Nokias are supposed to "sync fine" with just about anything too at some point, however I have yet to come across one Nokia user who doesn't whine when his phone breaks, gets stolen or lost, and "loses" his & her numbers.

My iPhone syncs at least daily and I've got anything I'd ever wanted on it. No, I don't need more than 8 GB surprisingly, because most days, I just don't watch three moves in a row on it...

still, the lawsuit is silly.

and everyone who wants to sue Apple(!) for T-Mobile charging 999 Euros... get a life. Are we demanding a Super Lambo for everyone now too? It's 1,000,000 Euros! Come one, everybody scream how unfair it is they can't afford something! Would be so pleasant if all who whine about the bad bug companies making too expensive products would just move to some stalinist-communist region of the world and would be happy about their choice of car, coming in one of three random colors, but guaranteed the same specs as his neighbor's car! Lighten up folks...

 

[Sijmen]

For the $1100 price difference between the iPod touch and the iPhone you get:

1. Modem
2. Bluetooth
3. Microphone
4. Camera
5. Some apps

Now, you could instead choose to buy a MacBook in the US instead. What does this give you?

1. Beautiful laptop enclosure
2. 13" widescreen display
3. 2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
4. 1 GB memory
5. 80 GB hard drive
6. Mac OS X
7. Speakers
8. Microphone
9. Camera
10. Keyboard
11. Trackpad
12. Mac OS X
13. Lots of apps
14. DVD drive
15. Ethernet
16. WiFi
17. Mini-DVI
18. Optical audio out and in
19. Apple remote
20. IR
21. ... whatever I'm forgetting

I'd go for the MacBook.

 

[JonasLondon]

Yes you are currently paying more for the device than the the sum of the parts.
Yes you are paying somewhat on top of that.
...
I wish life was as simple as some of you think it is!

Iknow you can't be addressing me, but the QUOTE function sure helps keeping the forums readable - cheers!

For the $1100 price difference between the iPod touch and the iPhone you get:

1. Modem
2. Bluetooth
3. Microphone
4. Camera
5. Some apps

Now, you could instead choose to buy a MacBook in the US instead. What does this give you?

1. Beautiful laptop enclosure
2. 13" widescreen display
   ....
3. IR
4. ... whatever I'm forgetting

I'd go for the MacBook.

Only problem it is sucks to Skype in the middle of the Midlands with no WiFi. Still, I'd like a MacBook Pro soon.... to complement my iPhone.

 

[plumbingandtech]

So now they are unlocked and we still get whining.

Surprise. Surprise.

The iphone is subsidized. Are you saying Apple should leave profits on the table in germany? Why should germany get special treatment when the other countries don't.

The unlocked price is the price.

Buy it or pass on it.

Problem solved.

 

[jaw04005]

I don't know why anyone is surprised. By buying an unlocked phone, Apple is losing that subscription revenue that they would have received from T-Mobile over the next two years. T-Mobile is also losing a customer and subscription revenue—removing any incentive they had to even sell the iPhone in the first place.

Did you really think both companies were going to give that up?

I have a feeling the majority of the people complaining about the price (like usual) and carrier lock did not have any intention of purchasing the device anyway.

 

[gifford]

For the $1100 price difference between the iPod touch and the iPhone you get:

1. Modem
2. Bluetooth
3. Microphone
4. Camera
5. Some apps

Now, you could instead choose to buy a MacBook in the US instead. What does this give you?

1. Beautiful laptop enclosure
2. 13" widescreen display
   ....

I'd go for the MacBook.

OR you could buy a weekend break to Thailand with bed n breakfast and still have bought something equally as relevant.

 

[Sijmen]

OR you could buy a weekend break to Thailand with bed n breakfast and still have bought something equally as relevant.

I only meant to illustrate how silly the added price is. The price of the extra iPhone components vs the iPod touch in no way justifies the price difference.

 

[pianojoe]

I'd like to throw in some figures for comparison: German carrier Eplus offers the Nokia N95 for 340€ with a 2 yr contract, or 700€ w/o contract. Apply the same math to the iPhone: 823€ w/o contract.

The T-Mobile price point of 999€ is not too far off—given the fact that they'd rather sell you a contract to go with the iPhone.

 

[HyperX]

I think your all missing the big picture here... 3 Steps to SUCCESS

Objects Needed

1 Legit Unlocked Phone.
1 Locked Phone.

1) Dump both Roms and Radio firmware.
2) Compare and find the Difference.
3) Presto new unlock for American Iphone! One that Apple will have a hard time patching.

 

[BKKbill]

Lets see how many $1500 phones are sold.

Isn't that really the idea.

 

[plumbingandtech]

I only meant to illustrate how silly the added price is. The price of the extra iPhone components vs the iPod touch in no way justifies the price difference.

The part price may not but the extra price is justified.

Hint: monthly fees paid back to apple from the phone company.

 

[Unspeaked]

So if someone got their hands on this, what are the chances it could be reverse engineered to make a "legitimate hack" for unlocked iPhones...?

 

[miketcool]

I think your all missing the big picture here... 3 Steps to SUCCESS

Objects Needed

1 Legit Unlocked Phone.
1 Locked Phone.

1) Dump both Roms and Radio firmware.
2) Compare and find the Difference.
3) Presto new unlock for American Iphone! One that Apple will have a hard time patching.

My thoughts exactly. That initial investment will be nice to the fastest person to hack and release a new reinstall package for the iPhone. Good luck, I'm still holding out for 64 GB FD and 3G...

 

[Sijmen]

The part price may not but the extra price is justified.

Hint: monthly fees paid back to apple from the phone company.

Yeah I see that they are missing out on the contract. The whole point is, the iPhone could never have a cost price of more than € 250 or something. (They're selling the iPod touch for much less, $ 300 = € 211). 75% profit on hardware is insane.

I don't mind paying a premium for Apple stuff - heck I bought a PowerBook G4while it was already outdated - but this is going a bit too far for me.

 

[roland.g]

Didn't Vodaphone have a chance at the iPhone, not come to terms with Apple and now that it came out for someone else and they know how huge a hit it is, they are playing crybaby about it, running to courts. They wouldn't be saying that if they were the iPhone carrier. That's like Verizon doing the same thing in the US. Smells like crap to me. Vodaphone sucks. But they got what they wanted. Unlocked phones are available. People will still switch.

 

[emotion]

I think your all missing the big picture here... 3 Steps to SUCCESS

Objects Needed

1 Legit Unlocked Phone.
1 Locked Phone.

1) Dump both Roms and Radio firmware.
2) Compare and find the Difference.
3) Presto new unlock for American Iphone! One that Apple will have a hard time patching.

Each device has a unique IMEI, the unlock will be tied to that. The rest is identical, at a guess.

----

This makes for very interesting watching. It sure makes all the companies involved look vulgar it has to be said (I can't help but think Vodafone look a bit silly now for some reason).

I love the way Apple products work but I think their business practice is extremely sharp and something that does put me off a little. However, it won't stop me buying their products (yes I have an iPhone) and just maybe this is better than an Apple that constantly "going out of business" like so many times in it's history (yes, I'm an Apple user since 1990).

Apple: just release that kick-ass new Mac Mini and the ultraportable and we can talk computers then.

 

[gifford]

I only meant to illustrate how silly the added price is. The price of the extra iPhone components vs the iPod touch in no way justifies the price difference.

Yeah sorry, im trying to give up smoking, and im a bit touchy today.

Anyhow, if you have a look at the price of some of the ultra portables, you will notice that the price of these devices actually goes up in price the smaller you get. cost rises due to increased development of heat management and compactability of components.
The iPhone is not a full compact computer just yet, but its the closest thing to date. the point im trying to get at is that bare component costs are not the only thing to take into consideration.
a standard USB chip on a PC is going to cost considerably more than a USB chip on a phone due to size resrictions. people want the slimmest phones, manufacturers produce components to suit and charge a premium for it.

 

[Sijmen]

Yeah that's only logical, smaller = more expensive. But these few components are not nearly worth € 600.