iPhone without Contract in Germany? - 999€ UPDATE: Confirmed + 600€ for an unlock!

[RichP]

So now they are unlocked and we still get whining.

Surprise. Surprise.

The iphone is subsidized. Are you saying Apple should leave profits on the table in germany? Why should germany get special treatment when the other countries don't.

The unlocked price is the price.

Buy it or pass on it.

Problem solved.

I don't know why anyone is surprised. By buying an unlocked phone, Apple is losing that subscription revenue that they would have received from T-Mobile over the next two years. T-Mobile is also losing a customer and subscription revenue—removing any incentive they had to even sell the iPhone in the first place.

Did you really think both companies were going to give that up?

I have a feeling the majority of the people complaining about the price (like usual) and carrier lock did not have any intention of purchasing the device anyway.

Didn't Vodaphone have a chance at the iPhone, not come to terms with Apple and now that it came out for someone else and they know how huge a hit it is, they are playing crybaby about it, running to courts. They wouldn't be saying that if they were the iPhone carrier. That's like Verizon doing the same thing in the US. Smells like crap to me. Vodaphone sucks. But they got what they wanted. Unlocked phones are available. People will still switch.

EXACTLY!

Everyone seems to whine about this phone no matter what Apple does. If this phone was sold unlocked from the beginning people would be complaining about lack of compatibility with networks and settings. The apple locking scheme offers 2 things: It produces profits for Apple and the Telco, and it provides a consistent phone user experience. An unlocked phone would provide neither.

 

[KD7IWP]

Freak! That's expensive! Who in the world would pay that? I'm sure some do.... but still. Does T-mobile advertise that if you are rich enough to spend 999 Euros that you won't get visual voicemail included at that high price (should you go to a different carrier).

 

[seedster2]

I dont understand why people keep asserting the iphone is subsidized. It's not and that was confirmed during their Q3 disclosure. Someone please show me evidence where it is subsidized.

This was obviously done by T-mobile to comply with the ruling until they can appeal while still making it unattractive to buy the iphone without contraction. It's exactly what I expected to happen in France.

Nevertheless, Apple makes a killing of the phone itself so even if it doesnt get its kickbacks on contracts they just make a little less. Too bad.

I wonder hwo long it will take to leverage what they learn in the hacked model to all other phones.

 

[em500]

I don't understand why it's so difficult for some people to admit that Apple would make a good profit on the hardware, even at €399 without any carrier fees. Sure, they have tons lots of other costs that don't factor in the gross margins. But most of them are typically closed to fixed, and amortized over millions of units.

The funny thing is that you have people here who always try to downplay the profit Apple takes when they sell something to you, and those who are cheering with every quarterly report of record profits. And it wouldn't surprise me if there is a substantial overlap in those groups too.

 

[megfilmworks]

This price is not for buyers, it's a logical response to government interference in a free market.

 

[TonyHoyle]

The apple locking scheme offers 2 things: It produces profits for Apple and the Telco, and it provides a consistent phone user experience. An unlocked phone would provide neither.

Of course it would.

All other phones work fine with this model. They have a consistent user interface and the telco and phone manufacturer makes money.

The locking scheme does not produce more profits for the telco. It's designed to make more profit for apple, nothing more. They want to double dip... they shouldn't be surprised if they get burned.

Apple and T-mobile *broke the law*. The courts are now forcing them back into compliance. The fact that vodaphone were the ones that pointed this out is completely irrelevant.

Nobody needs to sue T-mobile for charging €999. The judge isn't stupid and I'm sure he can work out that it's just a gameplay to try to comply without really complying. Pissing around with a judge who's going to preside over your hearing in two weeks isn't the best way to win a case... €500 would at least have been in line with other smartphones in the class and could have been deemed reasonable (and €500 plus a sim only contract is a reasonable way to do it - it would have been pretty popular. The O2 equivalent sim only deal for example is only £15 a month with no minimum contract length).

I dont understand why people keep asserting the iphone is subsidized. It's not and that was confirmed during their Q3 disclosure. Someone please show me evidence where it is subsidized.

If it's not it's not allowed to be locked in the first place... apple's only defence at this point is that the phone is subsidized, otherwise they're hosed.

 

[jonnylink]

This is crazy. For one, does anyone know who actually set the price? Does anyone know the reasons why that person/company set that price?

Most of these comments are pure speculation or whining. I think locked phones suck too. I won't switch to AT&T, so I can't get an iPhone, but I don't go to forums and wail about how cruel the world is.

Everyone that is enraged about this ought to take a moment to reassess their values and ask if they are putting that same energy into the much more vital problems our world faces today. How many of you have put the same energy into issues of race, gender, class, media, religion, or war?

Not to be a jerk, but move on and get your heads out of your behinds.


love,
Jon

 

[MysterMac]

obvious

no-one seems to be asking the obvious - WHEN and WHERE will these be available, on the shelf, to walk out - pop in a chip - and be iPhonin' ?

I was going to kick back until after the 29th when the French ones get released, but now we may well have our proper-unlock solution within 24hours of these German ones being available

 

[JGowan]

I want something like that:

That looks like Dr. Frankenstein got a hold of it.

 

[HyperX]

Each device has a unique IMEI, the unlock will be tied to that. The rest is identical, at a guess.

That why you check the address of 2 phones and see what changes. This way it will someday be possible to cook a Rom with your IMEI in it. I seriously doubt Apple has a database that checks your IMEI *which if they got caught spying would lead to a whole new can of worms* against which IMEI's are SUPPOSE to be unlocked.

 

[emotion]

That why you check the address of 2 phones and see what changes. This way it will someday be possible to cook a Rom with your IMEI in it. I seriously doubt Apple has a database that checks your IMEI *which if they got caught spying would lead to a whole new can of worms* against which IMEI's are SUPPOSE to be unlocked.

I'm not saying people shouldn't try or that it couldn't be done. I hope it can. I don't like these things being as closed as they are.

 

[kkat69]

/laugh@Vodafone

Momma always said "Careful what you wish for, you just might get it"

I think it's funny as hell. Patience comes at a price. If your not patient you'll pay more.

I'm waiting to get my iPhone until they DO offer it at a resonable price or at least offer the service/ability maybe after a certain time frame after you start your contract like almost all other att phones (usually 6mths - 1yr) then I'll buy.

Until then, ****----|my sympathy|---syphilis

 

[rezatayebi]

Look at the price... It`s stupid.

 

[ruckus]

I actually really like that advertisment with the light up sign. haha!

 

[emotion]

If it's not it's not allowed to be locked in the first place... apple's only defence at this point is that the phone is subsidized, otherwise they're hosed.

Y'know over the last few weeks you and I have discussed this a lot. This is the exact point I've been trying to make.

And to all those that think €999 is a real price, it's intentionally high - that is the whole point. I'd doubt anyone will ever actually go for that, it's €25 a month if averaged over 24 months. That's half the contract price on T-Mobile.

 

[TonyHoyle]

I'm not saying people shouldn't try or that it couldn't be done. I hope it can. I don't like these things being as closed as they are.

I strongly suspect IPSF have already done 90% of the work - their unlock uses the standard baseband (albeit temporarily replacing it to perform the unlock) and survives upgrades just fine... which means the standard software sees the phone as 'properly' unlocked.

The only step left is for to work out how to enter the proper unlock sequence from an entirely unmodified phone.. then you'll just be able to go onto the web or into your local phone store and unlock an iphone easily (they'll probably be on sale ready unlocked like nokias and motorolas are at the moment).

Depends on how long it takes of course. The BB5 unlock (N series phones) took about 3 years apparently.

 

[miranderm]

iPhone

not only is it the invention of the year -but its the gadget of the centuary- changing in a most freightening way telephony for the people ( just ask scared Vodophone )-. To invent and implement this is really huge and to try to smear apple from their just rewards is just plain sorry.--- people love their iphones and willingly pay premium for it--in fact only get angry when changes to this premium cheepens the heart felt values they willingly embrace.Whats happening in Germany is perfect-same profile headed for France--won't happen here (USA)--AT&t got this baby

 

[sjo]

I dont understand why people keep asserting the iphone is subsidized. It's not and that was confirmed during their Q3 disclosure. Someone please show me evidence where it is subsidized.

You didn't care to read the topic before answering? "Confirmed + 600€ for an unlock!".

 

[samh004]

Apple could blow away Nokia and Sony-Ericsson for years. I can't understand, why they don't do this.

Because they're getting rich off all the fees they get paid per contract. It's a long-term financial success.

Does this mean that some clever hacker somewhere will be able to see what is contained in the unlock coding and then unlock all 1.1.2 iPhones?

I certainly hope so, though it'll likely be a complex unlocking code. Hopefully some enterprising wealthy hacker can get his head around it.

I sincerely hope so. I think that £720 for the iPhone is a TOTAL DISGRACE! Apple/T-Mobile aren't doing themselves any favours and should be ashamed.

It's not Apple that's bumped the price as far as I can see, and seeing as T-Mobile has the most to lose, in revenues from contracts, I'd imagine this extra €600 will be going directly to them.

The iPhone on the Apple online store Germany is still listed at the original price. I'd imagine you can buy it from Apple and pay T-Mobile directly for the unlock.

Everyone seems to whine about this phone no matter what Apple does. If this phone was sold unlocked from the beginning people would be complaining about lack of compatibility with networks and settings. The apple locking scheme offers 2 things: It produces profits for Apple and the Telco, and it provides a consistent phone user experience. An unlocked phone would provide neither.

I think this will be the big issue, soon we'll get complaints from people in the forums asking about why visual voicemail doesn't work on their new iPhone's not using T-Mobile.

If Apple had let the phone be unlocked from the start, no telecom would of implemented the necessary changes for the various innovative new features. Nothing would of been so cool, and I'd imagine some features might make it to other phones down the track.

 

[BLUELION]

Its called a economic sanction

That's a bit much.. considering the ipod touch is 299 euros.

Apple are basically trying to claim that a slightly bigger battery, a bluetooth chip and a 2G radio are worth 700 euros. lol.

The court hearing is going to be real interesting if they're playing games like that. Still, it's only for 2 weeks until the proper decisions are made. It's a symbolic price, designed to stall until then.

Come on don't be silly, Apple is not saying this. The price jump is all about pricing the unlocked phone out of financial reach for that majority, if not all, customers. Since we already know that people want to pay the least amount possible for a phone they will choose the lower priced model and avoid the unlocked altogether.

It makes pefect sense.

If you want an unlocked one, fine, it will cost you more and that is what they are saying.

 

[samab]

This brings up some interesting issues about unlocking fees for other countries.

While I don't expect unlocked iPhones to be sold in the UK at similar prices to those in Germany, surely this suggests that Apple/O2 will have to provide an unlock code to those who request it, at the end of the 18 month agreement that new customers in the UK have signed up to.

As I understand it, Ofcom rules state that providers must provide an unlock code for locked phones once the minimum term of a contract is up, but may charge a nominal fee (usually in the range of £15 - £30).

If T-Mobile are having to play ball with the laws in Germany (as they should) surely O2 will have to do the same regarding unlock codes, when this situation arises in the UK. As long as they don't try and charge £600 of course!

The fact that Vodafone hasn't sued in the UK and Vodafone stated that they have no intention of ever suing in the UK --- signals that the O2/Apple deal is completely legal in the UK.

All my explanations of the Ofcom rules are here.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/385625/

Apple and T-mobile *broke the law*. The courts are now forcing them back into compliance. The fact that vodaphone were the ones that pointed this out is completely irrelevant.

Apple and T-Mobile Germany haven't broken any law.

All Vodafone got was a preliminary injunction. The legal issues haven't been tried in the courts yet.

The fact that the german regulator has been completely silent on this issue and the fact that Vodafone bypassed the german regulator and sued in the courts systems also suggests that the german regulator will side with T-Mobile.

 

[EagerDragon]

As I figured

Be ready to tack another 500 to the price of the iPhone if it has to be unlocked. Apple sold it at a particular price with the condition of a 2 year contract with a particular cell-phone provider. This provided them a source of revenue for a 2 year period that they worked into the formula used to price it for you.

If you eliminate the contract, then Apple will price it for you with no cantract and no lost of revenue to them, so you are looking at 500 more and that will hurt sales as the unlocked phone will cost close to $900 US and more overseas.

I love how people don't seem to take this into consideration before they shout Hurray.

Apple would rather pull out of the market than sell a phone and lose money in the deal.
They are not going to do what M$ is doing with the 360.

Apple wants to sell iPhones but only for a profit. No profit no phone.

Seems I was not too far from what I stated.

Apple is not about to loose money like Dell does by selling for next to nothing above cost.

 

[emotion]

I strongly suspect IPSF have already done 90% of the work - their unlock uses the standard baseband (albeit temporarily replacing it to perform the unlock) and survives upgrades just fine... which means the standard software sees the phone as 'properly' unlocked.

The only step left is for to work out how to enter the proper unlock sequence from an entirely unmodified phone.. then you'll just be able to go onto the web or into your local phone store and unlock an iphone easily (they'll probably be on sale ready unlocked like nokias and motorolas are at the moment).

...there's also the matter of encryption but I agree. Until this happens Apple have to claw back the hardware dev/software dev/marketing costs and make enough to cover future development etc so that this is a sustianable business model.

 

[BLUELION]

Lets see how many $1500 phones are sold.

I guess the next law suit to be filed against Apple will be for charging too much money for an unlocked phone.

Nah, I don't think there will be meritorious lawsuit, as this is simple supply and demand economics at play. If you really want a new one, you pay the price. To think that one can sue because he/she does not like the price of a product is complete nonsense.

Again the simple law and demand effect will work to lower the price over time.

If you sue over this issue, you really need some help.

 

[Mulyahnto]

Would you all like some cheese with your whine?

If you want an IPhone, go with ATT/T-Mobile/Orange or whatever, if you don't like ATT/T-Mobile/Orange don't get the IPhone.

I really want a million dollars.

Seriously, is not your b!tch