iPod Mini in the Media and on TV?

[tveric]

The mind boggles

After reading about the last 15 posts in this thread my head started to hurt, and I had to hit the reply button, and say "why would anyone continue to argue and argue online about this crap?" i mean, come on, try it, read the last 15 posts, and see if you don't get a headache. It's absurd.

 

[Sir_Giggles]

Originally posted by phantompigger
My concern is that, like the Power Macintosh Cube, there just won't be enough buyers at this price point.

My concern is that your logic regarding iPod mini to the Cube is flawed.

1) At which price point? ~$2000 compared to $249? Cubes didn't sell too well because the monetary risk is much higher since it's a premium machine. $249 isn't so much a risk, when you compare it to the standard iPod.

2) the iPod mini is not designed to be upgraded, which was lacking with the Cube.

3) there was no definable market for the Cube. For the iPod mini, it's targeted at high-end flash players.

Given just these 3 points of debate, I see no logic in your logic.

 

[iChan]

I would love to find out how many people writing positive things about the iPod Mini in this forum and guffawing at the poor unfortunates who wrote those negative things about the original iPod actually wrote negative things about the iPod mini when that was involved.

What is feel is a great acceptance of the fact that we are not going to get anything cheap from Apple, ever.

what is so sad is that afterall this time, it takes a site like MacRumors to put it straight.

 

[rjstanford]

Those talking about price do have a point, you know.

For example, I could easily afford to buy an iPod mini. I've got the 40gb iPod, and I have to say that it hasn't "revolutionized my life," or even my music. Its good for things like long flights, but that's really about it. Most of the time, I've either got a nice stereo (on which compressed audio is noticably bad and I prefer to just use CDs) or my laptop (which has all of my music on it anyway).

The mini would be good for working out - except that I prefer working out with friends. So 2/3 of my workouts I wouldn't be using it anyway. It would be good for running - except that these days I don't run with anything blocking my ears (too risky). Same goes for biking. And anywhere that I wouldn't be physically carrying it - on a desk or in the car or whatever - the conventional iPod provides a much better value/capacity without any negativity because of its slightly higher weight/size.

Now, with all that, if it had been under $200 I would probably go for the mini anyway, just to see if it ended up being more useful. For $150, I'd have bought it by now no question. But at $250, its just psychologically too much for a whimsical purchase.

So its not about features. Its about the perception of price/value. For me at least. And I'm really the only person I'm qualified to speak for

-Richard

 

[Spades]

Are you sure about that? So this $50 iLife 04 thing is just a hoax? I think Apple is perfectly capable of pricing things cheaply. The big factor is their costs and how much of a profit margin they want.

I see this a lot, and being new to the Apple world, I may have missed something, so I'll ask now. Has Apple ever said they won't make cheap things, or have they said they won't make low quality things? If Apple's stated they're dedicated to making high priced items, then it's time for those of us disappointed with $249 to pack up and go home. If Apple is dedicated to making high quality items though, then there's no reason they can't create a sub-$200 except for their costs. If the 4 gig mini has to be $249, fine. I just want an even more slimmed down iPod that is under $200. Make it 2 gigs and cut out any extras but the cables.

Originally posted by iChan

What is feel is a great acceptance of the fact that we are not going to get anything cheap from Apple, ever.

 

[rjstanford]

Originally posted by frankly
You forgot to include the biggest part of my point in your observation of who has third party mice. I have a third party mouse for my PC as well and so do ALL of my friends that have PCs. That is my point. Everyone that cares buys a third party mouse regardless of what their machine comes with.

Except for those of us who use laptops almost exclusively, and don't feel like sticking a mouse into them (ever tried to use a mouse on an airplane? Heh). At that point, its a real PITA that Apple won't add a second button, at least on the Powerbooks (ie: the pro line - feel free to keep the iBooks single-buttoned).

But this is a bit off topic, so I'll restrain myself to one post. Yeah, its not the preferred no posts, but its better than usual

-Richard

 

[phantompigger]

Originally posted by ganryu
Actually, you're wrong - the people socially connected to you is not an unbiased representation of the 2 million ipod customer base.

Hooray! My opinion is wrong! That's cool.

And with that, I think my little adventure here is over. My head hurts.

pp

 

[ganryu]

Originally posted by phantompigger
Hooray! My opinion is wrong! That's cool.

And with that, I think my little adventure here is over. My head hurts.

pp

What a typical tactic - twist and distort the other person's argument, and run away as far as possible

Anyways, I was pointing out your assumption and logic was wrong. You are free to have your opinion, but don't let your arrogance cloud you with the belief "who I talk on a daily basis is an unbiased sample of the 2 million iPod buyers".

now run, skippy!

 

[iggyb]

Originally posted by ganryu
What a typical tactic - twist and distort the other person's argument, and run away as far as possible

Anyways, I was pointing out your assumption and logic was wrong. You are free to have your opinion, but don't let your arrogance cloud you with the belief "who I talk on a daily basis is an unbiased sample of the 2 million iPod buyers".

now run, skippy!

Ganryu, I don't think you have much argument at all. Phantompigger is giving his/her opinion on the price/value, and you're claiming there's no data to support it. First of all, IT'S AN OPINION! Second, there's no data to support that the price point will work, either. After all the research, it's an educated guess.

Debating the issue is one thing. But to say that Phantompigger is distorting your argument is a little childish.


Sorry if I'm launching salvos here, but I think there are some unfair attacks on people just because they don't agree with the pricing on the iPod mini.

 

[ganryu]

Originally posted by iggyb
Ganryu, I don't think you have much argument at all. Phantompigger is giving his/her opinion on the price/value, and you're claiming there's no data to support it. First of all, IT'S AN OPINION! Second, there's no data to support that the price point will work, either. After all the research, it's an educated guess.

Debating the issue is one thing. But to say that Phantompigger is distorting your argument is a little childish.


Sorry if I'm launching salvos here, but I think there are some unfair attacks on people just because they don't agree with the pricing on the iPod mini.

Before this turns into an ugly flame war:

1) I said his assumptions that "his circle of friends/coworkers of mac users is an unbiased sample of potential Mini customers" is wrong.
2) Phantompigger said I said his opinion that "the iPod Mini is not a good value" is wrong.

If you can point out to me where I said his opinion is wrong, please do. My opinion so far in this thread has always been that each person would have their own respective values for whether the Mini is worth buying, and Apple knows more than all of us because they have access to much more concrete data.

My other point (in reference to PhantomPigger) is that people who thinks their friends/coworkers represent the entire targetted customer segment of Minis are just plain silly.

 

[billyboy]

Originally posted by frankly
First, I do get that you are providing anecdotal evidence ...

You forgot to include the biggest part of my point in your observation of who has third party mice. I have a third party mouse for my PC as well and so do ALL of my friends that have PCs. That is my point. Everyone that cares buys a third party mouse regardless of what their machine comes with.

Later, Frank

My father bought three 3-button mice for his PC, but only because two wouldnt work and he doesnt like to complain about things he doesnt understand.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but at $249, aren't Apple in a brilliant position to bundle iTunes vouchers with the iPodminis to maintain interest further down the line. They may never have to drop the price, just keep offering extra tracks, and seeing as they make a few cents on tunes anyway, it's not like they are going to go hungry whichever way.

And the iPodmini could well be a bigger, or is it niftier, Trojan horse. "New eMac madam with an iPodmini for $100? You know it makes sense."

For the first time Wall Street has said that Apple have got their act together and its buy buy buy Apple. They have struck that chord between innovation and a mega market winning potential.

I just hope their UK marketing team is on the ball and moving in to explain the article in the Times and on news broadcasts about iPod battery issues. A case of old news made to sound like bad news.

 

[sanford]

I very seriously considered getting an iPod mini has a secondary for my 3rd generation 30GB (I have about 22GB of music if you look at in terms of AAC files -- something around 600 CDs). You know, to use when I forgot to charge the 30GB and would be out and about for longer than the charge was left.

But then I realized that I was in a similar situation when I still had my 10GB 1st generation and the new 30GB. The 30GB went with me everywhere with all my music while the 10GB really just became something of a chore item, something to look after keeping charged to assure the battery stayed in good shape.

I'm still tempted -- it's always fun to get something new from Apple that doesn't cost $3,000 -- but I'm also pretty sure the iPod mini would just sit, charged when it was needed and never really used. It's smaller but not by far so much smaller that I'd ever say, Hey the 30GB is to big to carry where I'm going today, so I'll take the mini.

For Apple, I guess they may lose the iPod mini sale to me because of the 16th February release date. If I could run out to the Apple Store and get it now, now, now, I probably would finish this post and, hop in the car and go buy one. But by the middle of February things like logic and reason are likely to win the matter.

 

[nagromme]

Some general observations:

Some general observations:

1. Some people seem to be running logic backwards: they start with a conclusion--I WANT an iPod for $199 (or $39 or whatever) and rumor sites got my hopes up, so I will just DECIDE that it's possible, and then work backwards to try to create reasons why it is.

2. Anger among (some) Mac rumor-forum members is very little reflection on the buying public as a whole. Reports of long backorders are very likely true! And this is BEFORE people are seeing these things in person--which seems to impress people with the mini even more.

3. The mini's benefits are not just aesthetic (not that color choice is a small thing at all). It's also smaller/thinner (more pocketable), lighter, has nifty new simpler controls, comes with a belt clip (the 15 doesn't), comes with the USB cable (the 15 doesn't--and FW is not universal on all the PCs sitting out there), and is more durable--I can vouch for this from owning an anodized aluminum PowerBook!

4. If people are so convinced that Apple can make a profit on a 1" HD at less than $200... then why are other 1" HD players priced the same? iLife can't be used as an example proving Apple's ability to price the mini cheaper. You see, Apple doesn't need to buy a 1" HD to put inside every iLife box

I'd love a $199 mini too, but it's not possible. Maybe it will be by the time I buy--but if the main thing the 15 has over the mini is GB, then I'll be saving money AND getting a better player by choosing the mini. 4 GB is plenty for some of us.

 

[ChrisH3677]

This thread will be way funny in 2 years when they release the too expensive super-mini-iPod for only $50 less than the super-successful mini-iPod which actually became the original iPod killer.

 

[rjstanford]

Re: Some general observations:

Originally posted by nagromme
It's also smaller/thinner (more pocketable), lighter...

I realize that all of this is true, but I am curious - how often is the size/weight of the current iPod a big deal? I'm comparing to my own usage (often have a support surface such as a table or a car console) and with my observations (usually the iPod is seen in a backpack or some other case where size is not that critical - the difference between the original and the mini wouldn't matter much. Same at the gym - most everyone I see using an iPod sets it on the treadmill just fine - people who use their players while lifting, etc, generally (90%+) have the tiny flash-based ones.

I see a lot of people running on the trails (good running here in Austin), and fairly few of them are using any kind of MP3 player - some are, with the iPod represented about 10-15% of the time. A couple of people I know with them won't run with them - not because of the size, but because of the expense if they break it (will probably still be an issue with the minis).

The new one is closer to celphone size, but I (again, I don't know about you) tend to keep my cel with me close on 100% of the time. I never know when an important call may come in. So there's a good reason for it to be pocket-sized. There are tons of times when I know I don't want to listen to music for hours - going out to lunch, in meetings, et cetera - where the reduced size won't make any difference and I won't have a mini in my pocket anyway.

So - yes, its smaller. And that counts for something as far as the "coolness factor" goes. But is it really a factor in actual usage? Honestly curious, and I'd like personal experiences if anyone has them of when the size would have made a difference.

-Richard

 

[ChrisH3677]

I don't own an iPod. If I did I wouldn't be rushing out to buy a mini.

If I was buying an iPod now, I would buy a mini without doubt. It's more stylish and comes in colors so can reflect who i am (a little). My iTunes has 220 songs in it from about 20 CDs (geez I coulda saved a fortune if iTMS existed here over the last 5 years).

And I would save the $50 for something else - maybe a dock which neither the mini or 15Gb comes with; or maybe iLife 04; or maybe 50 songs from iTMS (when it finally gets down under!)

50 bucks is 50 bucks and 11Gb is not worth that 50 bucks to *me* and, i suspect if Apple have done their research right - a lot of other people feel the same.



PS Just as the original iMac spawned a deluge of translucent plastic objects (from pencil cases to toasters), I bet you'll see the mini-ipod casing copied to death as well.

 

[sanford]

Re: Some general observations:

Originally posted by nagromme
I'd love a $199 mini too, but it's not possible.

I'd readily spend the $250; that's not the issue for me. And I agree that the mini is likely to be much more scratch resistant -- except for the screen -- as the clear plastic shell of the other generations gets scratched, period, and usually much sooner than later, practically when you walk out the door from buying it. Some soft cases and almost all hard cases scratch the other generations.

For me, the issue is, Will I use it avidly for a week, then put it away only to pull it out to charge it, while I carry my 30GB around with all my music on it? I don't mind spending the $250, I just don't want to spend $250 on something that will quickly become entirely superfluous for me, personally. Having one iPod is great. Having two -- unless you're a digital DJ or such -- is like having your neighbor's puppy you must feed and water; every week, not every day, but still a chore. And the puppy lives next door, so you never see it but to look after it.

 

[nagromme]

Well if your case is buying a SECOND iPod, that's a different story... I wouldn't do that myself

Regarding the screen--if it's not too O/T... is their hard plastic over the mini screen, or soft like a laptop? The reflections in photos make it look hard, just like the full iPod--only recessed a bit, preventing scratches even better.

On the general point of "is thin and light a big deal?".... well if you mean, is it a bigger deal than wasted GB, then yes, for some, it is. In fact, it's the main thing I want from an iPod. Thin and light. That doesn't mean the old iPod is bad in that regard--it's great. But the mini is better.

 

[Spades]

Re: Some general observations:

Well if 2 gigs is too much to ask for, how about 1.5? There are players with that much for $199, and they're sold for cheaper than that. 1.5 gigs will hold almost all of my collection.

Originally posted by nagromme

4. If people are so convinced that Apple can make a profit on a 1" HD at less than $200... then why are other 1" HD players priced the same? iLife can't be used as an example proving Apple's ability to price the mini cheaper. You see, Apple doesn't need to buy a 1" HD to put inside every iLife box

 

[sanford]

Re: Re: Some general observations:

Originally posted by rjstanford
So - yes, its smaller. And that counts for something as far as the "coolness factor" goes. But is it really a factor in actual usage? Honestly curious, and I'd like personal experiences if anyone has them of when the size would have made a difference.

It's just not that much smaller or lighter. I pored over the specs pretty well. And that's compared to my 30GB, not the thinner and lighter 15s and 20s.

I still want one, but it's entirely an emotional thing, and not any kind of reason involved since I have the 30GB. Again, that being the case, if they were available right now, I'd buy one. If I didn't already have an iPod, I might readily opt for the mini -- although having all your music with you is actually kind of cool as there's never something you're just hit with wanting to hear, but it's not on your iPod.

We'll have to see when they arrive at stores and I can just walk out with one. I don't like to think I'm a spendthrift, but $250 is not a critical amount of money for me right now. But if I spend $250 for something I hardly ever use, opting instead for my 30GB all the time, I'll feel like a fool, a fool $250 lighter.

The extra scratch resistance is nice. But of course, you'll eventually scratch the screen. And the scratches don't affect the performance of iPod at all. Indeed, if it's not *your* iPod, you can't even really see the scratches.

 

[sanford]

Originally posted by nagromme
Well if your case is buying a SECOND iPod, that's a different story... I wouldn't do that myself

Then you see what I mean. Unless my iPod breaks or something it just makes almost zero sense to have a second. And as it is with 22GB of music, I'm not wasting space by owning my 30GB.

 

[lustre]

Mini for those not in the USA

Came across this site:

would this be helpful to anyone?
we don't even know what the European price is going to be.
http://www.americangoodies.com/page/page/893379.htm

 

[nagromme]

Carry more than 4 GB on your mini

Here' I'll trade something of value for an answer on the mini screen hardness

You CAN auto-sync a collection larger than 4 GB to a mini--without eliminating any songs from your life.

Just looking at the iPod manual I can see several ways to do this. The simplest:

1. Make playlist(s) of your favorite songs. (A smart list by rating, one by recently-added, plus some custom mix playlists, perhaps.) Your goal might be for these playlists to load, say, 600-800 songs or less onto your mini. These most important songs will ALWAYS be with you. How many is up to you.

2. But what about "the rest?" They'll fill the rest of the mini--not all at once, but in AUTOMATIC rotation: Just make a smart playlist of, say 200-400 songs--the LEAST-recently played. Exclude low-rated songs if you wish. Now every time you attach your mini to iTunes, any of "the rest of my songs" that has been played will automatically be dumped and replaced by another least-recently played song.

2. In iTunes preferences, tell iPod to auto-synch just those playlists. Yep--your iPod now holds less than the full library, yet requires no manual loading of music!

Result: no matter how big your library, your most important music will always be on your mini, PLUS an ever-changing selection of everything else in your library. Which after all is what you'd get from shuffle-playing the songs if they DID all fit.

So unless you are away from your iTunes for DAYS of solid music... you won't notice a lack of variety.

Customize the playlists of my method to your tastes and I think 1000 songs could go pretty far--AND retain the iPod's cool auto-synching.

(The second method that strikes me would give you ALL your playlists on the mini--but would semi-automatically "weed" them all down using whatever Smart Playlist(s) you created. How can you get a Smart Plalylist to EXCLUDE stuff from your iPod? Just make sure all songs are checked in your library (command-click any checkbox), then go to your "Exclude" playlist and COMMAND-uncheck any song--it gets them all. Then tell your other playlists [or your iPod?] to only take checked songs.)

 

[tbutler]

Re: Re: Some general observations:

Originally posted by rjstanford
So - yes, its smaller. And that counts for something as far as the "coolness factor" goes. But is it really a factor in actual usage? Honestly curious, and I'd like personal experiences if anyone has them of when the size would have made a difference.

A bit rambling answer to your question...

First, I admit that capacity is important, because I like having essentially my entire library with me. I originally had one of the 5 gig iPods, but was able to sell it (to someone who didn't have nearly so much music, so that part holds! ) and move up to a 2nd gen 20 gig model, because this was important to me; I moved up to an HD-based player, after trying to use MP3 CD's with a laptop, in large part because I was tired of not having the song I wanted to listen to at the moment loaded - something that happened all too often. So I'm not likely to get the current-gen iPod mini for that reason alone.

That said, there are definitely times when I wish my 2nd-gen was smaller. While it does fit some shirt pockets just fine, it's big enough to stretch the fabric on other shirts; even the smoothly rounded edges on the 3rd-gen would be an improvement. The miniPod would be very nice from that standpoint, and that's not even counting the weight - on some shirts the 2nd-gen is heavy enough to make the shirt really sag.

But I think the classic example of where size matters for me is with FM broadcasting accessories. I often have to make a company drive on a few minute's notice; I take whatever random company vehicle's available, so I have to carry everything with me. In the time when I used an iRock FM transmitter, I often didn't take the iPod with me, because it was too much hassle to juggle all the parts. The Griffin iTrip, however, clips onto the top of the iPod and adds very little bulk; I can just drop the whole thing in a shirt pocket and go, and that makes a big difference in how much I use it.

So, given all this, I can easily see how the size difference could make a major usability difference for many people.

 

[tiktokfx]

Re: Re: Re: Some general observations:

Originally posted by sanford
It's just not that much smaller or lighter. I pored over the specs pretty well.

For you, possibly. Like many people, when I saw the graphic saying "$249," I thought "SMOOTH MOVE." Then a couple hours later after I'd calmed down (was waiting til after the keynote to put in my order for a 12" PB and was hoping to add on a $149 iPod), I reconsidered things. I'll most likely get a mini sometime soon.

Yes, it may seem like the size reduction isn't that much relative to the disk size. But then again... I have far more mp3s than even a 40GB iPod will take. I've got an external rack of disks on my Sun that stores all my mp3s.... it'd take a much larger iPod to fit my collection, so as long as I have to prune it down to fit on an mp3 player, why not spend half as much, have all the same functionality, but have a smaller device?

I carry my cellphone everywhere, in the watch pocket of my jeans. A normal iPod, while small, is too big to fit in there. I don't want it being jumbled around in my main pockets, which have to fit in a lot of stuff. A mini iPod, on the other hand, is SMALLER than my cell phone and will fit into the pocket just fine. WITH the cellphone in it, nice and tight and secure.

For me, a mini's the only way to go.