iPod Mini in the Media and on TV?

[phantompigger]

Originally posted by ccuilla
One size does not fit all, and value cannot always be determined by simply two metrics (price and capacity)...and certainly not just one (price). Furthermore, value (like beauty), is often in the eye of the beholder.

I can't argue with that. People who choose the iPod mini at its current price point will certainly be making the decision based upon aesthetics.

My concern is that, like the Power Macintosh Cube, there just won't be enough buyers at this price point. Everyone I've talked to feels that $249 is too expensive for the mini. EVERYONE. Yes, that's anecdotal, but these consistently negative reactions should alarm Apple.

The consensus seems to be that Apple could have hit a home run at $199.

And for those of you who claim that the iPod isn't targeted at the faithful, I'd like to point out that in a recent Newsweek, Jobs claims that one of the "...biggest customers for the iPod mini is going to be current owners buying a second iPod."

One final thought: Do you think that the introduction of 15GB might have been ill-timed? Do you think that we'd all be more accepting of the $249 price point if the $299 continued to carry a 10GB HD?

pp

 

[ganryu]

Originally posted by iggyb
For me, I was hoping for a lower-priced player...

And for those of you who were hoping for a higher-priced player, please raise your hand?

 

[Count Blah]

Originally posted by ganryu
And for those of you who were hoping for a higher-priced player, please raise your hand?

Apparently those who say the mini is the best thing since sliced bread. They defend it like it's their first born. They make fun of people who think it's overpriced. They can't see the irony that the same arguments that Stevey used in the Keynot to buy the mini makes it look like a dog compared to the classic iPod. They think the leader bends over an poops nickels. They see the cube as a success, and blame the unwashed troglodyte masses for not buying, instead of seeing it as an overpriced headless G4.

I'm guessing these people would have been happy with a $199 mini, but they seem to REALLY love it as it is and REALLY love to make fun of others who didn't drink the kool-aid.

 

[ganryu]

Originally posted by Count Blah
Did YOU ever concider that people are unwilling to spend over $200 for a foo-foo item? Parents don't want to spend over $200 for something little jonhy is going smash up while skateboarding. It's an MP3 players, not a computer, it's a shiny neet do-dad. And when you are dealing with the lower prices you find people who will not go over a certain price.

And there are people unwilling to spend over $150 for a "foo-foo item". Or people unwilling to spend over $100 for the "foo-foo item". Frankly, I don't even know what a foo-foo item is, so I'm hoping someone will give it to me for free.

What you're trying to say (with out the foo-foos and doo-dads) is that there is an inherent elasticity in the price of a product, and if the product is lowered by $X, Y more people will buy it. It's one of the first concepts taught in Economics 101, so you're not really reinventing anything here.

To all you armchair theorists out there - do you seriously believe Apple hasn't considered the supply demand curve for the iPod? While most of you are just blindly guessing the sales, profit margins, target demographic of iPod Mini users, there are people at Apple who has real data for all those metrics. Not only that, they get paid to think about it everyday for work.

If Steve Jobs is driving the Apple gravy train, you guys are the worst backseat drivers ever.

 

[ganryu]

Originally posted by Count Blah
Apparently those who say the mini is the best thing since sliced bread. They defend it like it's their first born. They make fun of people who think it's overpriced. They can't see the irony that the same arguments that Stevey used in the Keynot to buy the mini makes it look like a dog compared to the classic iPod. They think the leader bends over an poops nickels. They see the cube as a success, and blame the unwashed troglodyte masses for not buying, instead of seeing it as an overpriced headless G4.

I'm guessing these people would have been happy with a $199 mini, but they seem to REALLY love it as it is and REALLY love to make fun of others who didn't drink the kool-aid.

Your incessant use of hyperbole isn't helping your argument. Especially when the anti-iPod Mini crowd is considerably more abusive in their complaints.

To get past my sarcasm, no one HOPES for a higher priced player. No one is going to cry how it's too cheap, if the iPod Mini comes out at $29.99 with a $50 rebate.

But there are some of us who find $249 to be an acceptable value. If you don't, then don't buy it, it's that simple.

 

[kwtneo]

pride decrease in a few months....

Originally posted by eazyway
Why would you ever think Apple will produce low end products. The cannot afford to. With the design requirements of Apple product low end is not an option. Design is too important.

High end flash is from at least $169 up to $299. Thus the mini falls into the area. Be it at the high end. It has many pluses. But only 25 min skip protection. ( for 90% this is fine but those who run 10k + it is a little low)

Adding an extra 5 % to their market share is a large impact. That would amount to selling an extra 200,000+ iPod minis in the first year. I am sure any company would take that.

don't worry
this price point as always in apple's and other tech companies' history of product introductions is for the early adopters. the price will come down to about 199 in a few months....
(at least i think it will

 

[ganryu]

Re: pride decrease in a few months....

Originally posted by kwtneo
don't worry
this price point as always in apple's and other tech companies' history of product introductions is for the early adopters. the price will come down to about 199 in a few months....
(at least i think it will

I agree... The original price point was $399 for the 1G iPod. The cheapest iPod is now 15G for $299.

Once there's enough volume, they'll be able to bring down the price of the 4GB (and introduce higher capacity iPod Minis at the same $249 price)

 

[QuiteSure]

Originally posted by croasmun
However, what Apple hates to admit is that quite often a purchase decision begins with a dollar amount. "I want a portable music player; I've got X number of dollars to spend on it." We can all wish that this weren't the case, but the fact of life is that consumers are looking for the best product at their particular price point, not the best product or even the best features-to-price ratio. The price point is usually the beginning of the search, at least once the consumer has some idea of what the field looks like.

This statement is true, but overlooks a basic reality of buying: a purchaser will buy all his budget can afford, and then a little bit more.

A buyer walks into Best Buy with a $199 budget for a mp3 player. He sees those in the class, and then the salesman says "Here's an iPod mini for just $50 more." We presume that the buyer will drool and begin to figure out how he or she can afford the mini. This scenario is played out countless times a day in the auto and real estate markets. It will happen here too. It's simple human nature.

 

[winmacguy]

Originally posted by ganryu
And for those of you who were hoping for a higher-priced player, please raise your hand?

http://www.appleinsider.com/news/
iPod mini
Independent of recent reports circulating around the web, AppleInsider sources are confirming Apple plans to reduce the price of the new iPod mini by approximately $50 (US), as soon as humanly possible. While some reports have speculated that the reduction could take place sometime in the coming year, sources expect the miniatures to shed the cost in-time for Summer.

iPod
Believe it or not, Apple's newly formed alliance with HP may become one of potentially numerous agreements based around the same terms, sources said recently. The computer maker is rumored to have several potential partnerships in-line that would extend the iPod's dominance in the music industry by allowing Apple to manufacture the players for third parties. However, no specific details on likely contenders are yet available

 

[rjwill246]

Thanks nagromme

It is amazing to read how many people assumed that Apple was the one suggesting the size and price of the minis in the preannouncement phase. That is why I cannot understand the 'frustration' and 'anger.' These folks should never read these posts... they get fantasy and reality all mixed up and then blow a fuse. Sorta funny in a diesel-brained kinda way?

 

[phantompigger]

Originally posted by ganryu
To quote a slashdot poster who totally trashes your point on how "price per GB" is the only and absolute metric:

Actually, I never stated that price-per-gigabyte is the only metric, although I can understand how that could be inferred.

I'm actually very, very conscious of aesthetics. They are extremely important to me, and they play a role in almost every purchase decision I make.

To be succinct, my point is that the aesthetics of the iPod mini are not enough of an enticement for most people to overlook its poor price-per-gigabyte value.

As far as price goes, there's always sweet spot where people's lust and logic meet. And judging from the rather negative reaction, it's not $249.

pp

 

[tiktokfx]

Originally posted by phantompigger
As far as price goes, there's always sweet spot where people's lust and logic meet. And judging from the rather negative reaction, it's not $249.

Hard to say, as people on here, for the most part, have not actually seen one in person and are basing their judgement solely on specifications.

 

[ganryu]

Originally posted by winmacguy
http://www.appleinsider.com/news/
iPod mini
Independent of recent reports circulating around the web, AppleInsider sources are confirming Apple plans to reduce the price of the new iPod mini by approximately $50 (US), as soon as humanly possible. While some reports have speculated that the reduction could take place sometime in the coming year, sources expect the miniatures to shed the cost in-time for Summer.

Ok, first of all, a lot of you are going to get your hopes up again if the price reduction doesn't take place by the summer.

Second, it's always known that the product costs more at its initial launch, to recoup the R&D costs and to wait for the economies of scale to improve. The price cut once production ramps up is really no surprise...

 

[ccuilla]

Originally posted by phantompigger
I can't argue with that. People who choose the iPod mini at its current price point will certainly be making the decision based upon aesthetics.

They will be making a decision based on the things THEY value. This MAY be aesthetics. It maybe other things.

My concern is that, like the Power Macintosh Cube, there just won't be enough buyers at this price point.

Valid concern. One Apple is likely aware of themselves. But we'll all see soon I suspect.

Everyone I've talked to feels that $249 is too expensive for the mini. EVERYONE. Yes, that's anecdotal, but these consistently negative reactions should alarm Apple.

$249 is too expensive when compared to what?

Everyone said the same thing with the original iPod. I think Apple knows what it is doing here.

The consensus seems to be that Apple could have hit a home run at $199.

Are you assuming that iPod Mini won't be $199..say in 4-6 months? After Apple has sold as many at $249 as it can?

 

[ccuilla]

Originally posted by phantompigger
To be succinct, my point is that the aesthetics of the iPod mini are not enough of an enticement for most people to overlook its poor price-per-gigabyte value.

How do you know this?

 

[ganryu]

Originally posted by phantompigger

I'm actually very, very conscious of aesthetics. They are extremely important to me, and they play a role in almost every purchase decision I make.

To be succinct, my point is that the aesthetics of the iPod mini are not enough of an enticement for most people to overlook its poor price-per-gigabyte value.

Most people? Most people on MacForums (who on average has much higher expectations than Apple can deliver), or most people that are in the market for mp3 players? If you're referring to the latter, please provide evidence to back up your statements.

Also, from the fact that 128mb players hold the 2nd and 4th best selling spot, unless they cost around $8, they have a poor price-per-gigabyte value compared to the Mini. So somewhere, your theory falls apart.

 

[tbutler]

Re: pride decrease in a few months....

Originally posted by kwtneo
don't worry
this price point as always in apple's and other tech companies' history of product introductions is for the early adopters. the price will come down to about 199 in a few months....

AppleInsider's saying today:

Independent of recent reports circulating around the web, AppleInsider sources are confirming Apple plans to reduce the price of the new iPod mini by approximately $50 (US), as soon as humanly possible.

I'm sure there are people who are going to seize this as justification (as they did the MacWorld UK report) and say "Ah-HAH! See? We TOLD you that they were too expensive." Completely ignoring the little qualifier 'as soon as humanly possible.'

I look at this and say, "Ah-hah! Apple knows that they would sell more at a lower price, but they can't afford to right now. In the meantime, they're going to sell as many as they can at the current price point to those who will buy them, until costs drop to the point where they can afford to drop the price - through higher volume, improvement in disk prices, or whatever."

As I understand it, the iPod mini's use the 1" mechanism also used in CF Microdrives; I couldn't find any 4 gig Microdrives in a quick web search, but the best price I found on the 2 gig models was $190. Doesn't look like there's a whole lot of room for pricing the iPod mini at $200, does it?

I've seen some people suggesting Apple should put that new 0.7" mechanism for $70 in there instead; but apart from the manufacturer being relatively new without much track record, the mechanism's limited to 2 gig in size, and I doubt it would be easy or simple to engineer the iPod mini's shell to work with both mechanisms. (IIRC, the 0.7" mechanism doesn't even use a standard ATA interface, so they'd need to have completely different electronics sets as well.) I think it made more sense for Apple's design engineers to go with a proven, stable form factor with a long history of improving price/performance, instead of a relatively new, untested mechanism that would require a redesign of the I/O circuitry in the iPod's system.

 

[iggyb]

In defense of phantompigger, I think he/she is just giving a prediction that the price point doesn't match its value. I seem to agree. But hey, we're all speculating here.

 

[winmacguy]

The iPod battery issue pops up again

I seem to remember this issue cropping up in November/December last year so I Figure it must be all the new PC owners of iPods jumping up and down in the UK about the cost of getting their iPod batteries replaced. I havent spottted any additional posts on MacBytes or Mac rumours yet from PeeCee newbies complaining..

Ipod's battery life let down
Technology



Published: 12-Jan-2004
By: Samira Ahmed



It's considered sleek and savvy and fits into your pocket in a way the walkman never did.



The iPod, by Apple, can cost anywhere from £250 to £400 pounds - but now some users are finding that replacing the battery is so expensive, it's not worth the bother.



If you could get your hands on one, it was the hottest Christmas gift of the season. But the batteries are dying a lot faster than people thought.



And, it's now emerging that getting them replaced is neither easy or cheap.



The Apple iPod's fans are starting to turn nasty, flocking to websites, such as one call "ipdosdirtysecrets" to share their annoyance.



Channel 4 News rang Apple UK who transferred us to a supplier.



The supplier thought a replacement battery cost £100. But then, wasn't sure either of the cost or whether you could even buy them in this country.

the Article on Macminute does mention Apple's battery replacement program

 

[ccuilla]

Originally posted by iggyb
In defense of phantompigger, I think he/she is just giving a prediction that the price point doesn't match its value. I seem to agree. But hey, we're all speculating here.

But discussions of "value" are silly absent data about the buyers. For some people the current iPod Mini at its current price WILL be a good value. For some it won't. When it drops to $199 it will be an even greater value to those that thought it a good value at $249, and it will (now) be a good value for some new set of people (that didn't think it was a good value before).

Why do I feel like some basic courses in marketing, sales and economics are in order here?

 

[totally_fly]

Two-button mouse too complicated?

All PC's come with a two-button mouse. Why would Mac users have a harder time figuring it out than PC users? Even if it is "hard to learn for non-geeks," they ought to learn and won't learn if Apple keeps shipping Macs with one-button mice.

The "action" button - what BS... get a two button mouse and you'll realize how much more effective they are.

 

[macmax]

Re: Two-button mouse too complicated?

Originally posted by totally_fly
All PC's come with a two-button mouse. Why would Mac users have a harder time figuring it out than PC users? Even if it is "hard to learn for non-geeks," they ought to learn and won't learn if Apple keeps shipping Macs with one-button mice.

The "action" button - what BS... get a two button mouse and you'll realize how much more effective they are.

i have a 3 button mouse and i wish Apple would sell them, they would be selling mouses like nothing else.
We all want a 3 button mouse , Apple!!!

 

[Nicky G]

Why I ordered my mini

First, I think a lot of the ANGER in these iPod mini threads come from people who REALLY wanted an iPod, but could never afford one -- they believed the $99 or $149 rumors, and are now really sad they STILL can't afford an iPod.

While I feel bad for them, they are wrong to think that this means NOBODY can afford a mini. Lots of people can, and will end up buying them.

I had to think hard about whether I wanted the 15GB iPod or the iPod mini. I settled on the mini because:

• It comes in GOLD! :-D

• 50-60 CDs is WAY MORE than I ever will need on my person at any given time, even for a loooong vacation. I can always swap playlists between my iBook and mini -- capacity is just not something I really was worrying about.

• The mini is simply COOLER -- it is small, it is colorful, the controls are WAY better than the 3G iPod IMHO -- THIS is what really sold me.

• It's small enough to take on a walk, jog, or hike. I don't jog more than 25 minutes straight, so the skip protection is just fine.

• It's CHEAPER than the other iPods by a decent margin, despite what some comments here would have you think. I'm still saving money, for the cooler iPod (remember, capacity was not my primary concern, 50 CDs worth of music is more than enough for me).

Everyone comparing it to the Cube is just wrong. If the mini were AS EXPENSIVE or MORE EXPENSIVE as the 15GB iPod, maybe it would be a fairer comparison. But it IS cheaper!

Better to compare it to -- the original iPod! It's more expensive than its peers on the market (compared to flash players -- it's just as expensive as other mini 4GB hard drive players). But it's WAY cooler. And this, folks, is why they are going to sell many more minis than some computer nerds on this forum would have you think.

NOT EVERYONE thinks in cost-per-Gigabyte only when shopping for a music player! Sorry!

 

[phantompigger]

Originally posted by ganryu
Most people? Most people on MacForums (who on average has much higher expectations than Apple can deliver), or most people that are in the market for mp3 players?

Actually, my argument is based on conversations I've had with dozens of friends and coworkers who use Macs. These people are not enthusiasts or experts; rather, they're just everyday users who would like to purchase an iPod.

And, of course, my argument is my opinion, and my opinion is based on my conversations with these people. It's obviously not a statement of fact, but I feel that it carries weight. I don't expect everyone to agree, and quite frankly, I'm surprised at some of the hostility here!

The iPod mini is small and sweet, but I find its price a bit hard to swallow. That's all.

pp

 

[ganryu]

Originally posted by phantompigger
Actually, my argument is based on conversations I've had with dozens of friends and coworkers who use Macs. These people are not enthusiasts or experts; rather, they're just everyday users who would like to purchase an iPod.

And, of course, my argument is my opinion, and my opinion is based on my conversations with these people. It's obviously not a statement of fact, but I feel that it carries weight. I don't expect everyone to agree, and quite frankly, I'm surprised at some of the hostility here!

The iPod mini is small and sweet, but I find its price a bit hard to swallow. That's all.

pp

Actually, you're wrong - the people socially connected to you is not an unbiased representation of the 2 million ipod customer base. No one I know ever considered the iPods (except for a few that went for the $299 model), but many of them are turning their heads towards the Mini. There are people in this world who doesn't need 1000 songs at a time, and doesn't find the hard drive size or price per GB to be a bragging right.

Frankly I'm more apalled at the hostility of the anti-Mini fans - the ones that bought the $200 rumor hook, link and sinker are now complaining Apple didn't meet their expectations.

Of course, there's also the arrogance of plenty of people who think they know what's good for apple, even though the only source of data they have is rumors.