iPod Touch: 'Mainstream Wi-Fi Mobile Platform'

[eastcoastsurfer]

Last thing I'm putting on any device (computer or phone) is software that was written by someone 'in their spare time.' (a description that includes most 'virus artists'.

I want 2 types of software.
1) that's been vetted. You can have the Windows crapware model.
2) that I've written myself, for my own, very niche, use.

We'll see what the SDK allows.

Paranoid much? You should ammend your statement to "Lots [sic] of people write poor quality software in their spare time." There are some good counterexamples out there, but many if not most open source projects are undocumented messes with lousy user interfaces and/or designs. Many have been abandoned and are, for all intents and purposes, dead since the reimplementation cost is frequently lower than the cost of learning how to use it and updating it.

You're both aware that without open source and free software there would be no OSX right? So does that make OSX poor quality software?

There will be an SDK for the iPod Touch/iPhone and I have seen no evidence to suggest that it will be crippled beyond posts such as yours. Its an interesting thought--that may even prove to be accurate, though I highly doubt it--but there is zero evidence of it at this time and several things that would lead me to think that it will not be crippled at all vs. what Apple does with their own applications.

Except that there was no SDK at release and they are working damn hard to keep both the iphone and itouch from being jailbroken. Some other evidence that they cripple on purpose? Look at the Airport/Airdisk fiasco and Time Machine. They even demoed Time Machine working over an air disk and took it out at the last minute. I think the Time Capsule shows pretty clearly why they did this. Not to mention that they even go as far as crippling some the open source apps that they do include.

What happened to Apple being about thinking differently instead of thinking the way Steve Jobs tells you to? Back when the Apple IIs were around iirc, they included system board specs so you could hack away if you wanted.

 

[elcid]

I will believe it when they add 802.1X. Until then, it's just a touchscreen iPod.

Amen. I was looking for someone who said it. It is not the best wireless platform because it cannot to anything but open and home networks. Give it 802.1X like all other devices and I will consider it.

 

[GQB]

You're both aware that without open source and free software there would be no OSX right? So does that make OSX poor quality software?

(FWIW, I'm a proponent of opensource requirements for voting systems.)

But what's your point? You're not seriously suggesting that open source OS development that resulted in Unix, which has been going on for decades by the best minds in software is somehow comparable to Joe Crapware, writing some VB virus vector in his bedroom while trying to get a job through Monster?

Again, nothing goes on my machine that isn't from a supported, responsible source (at least as best I can determine) or that I or my company wrote.

 

[regan]

If Apple says the Touch is it's mainstream WiFi mobile platform...

Then its time to update the sucker. Add a camera. Bump the flashdrive to at least 30gigs.

THEN....and only then will it truly live up to the mainstream mobile wifi platform moniker.

It's great now, don't get me wrong. But it's time to unleash the hounds and make it even BETTER.

 

[eastcoastsurfer]

(FWIW, I'm a proponent of opensource requirements for voting systems.)

But what's your point? You're not seriously suggesting that open source OS development that resulted in Unix, which has been going on for decades by the best minds in software is somehow comparable to Joe Crapware, writing some VB virus vector in his bedroom while trying to get a job through Monster?

Again, nothing goes on my machine that isn't from a supported, responsible source (at least as best I can determine) or that I or my company wrote.

So no Adium? VLC? Quicksilver? Or the the plugins that go with those? Or the numerous little utilities that you can get to help manage OS X better? How about all of the dashboard widgets? You better not use any of those either. Yep, lets remove all traces of open source from OSX. Wait! Where would that leave safari? Webkit started with KHTML (the KDE rendering engine). I think the guys who do KDE are smart, but I wasn't aware they were also the best minds OS design and made UNIX too!

There is lots of crap pay for software out there too (OSX seems to have a glut of $10-$20 products like this), but that doesn't mean I assume all are crap.

 

[jouster]

Guess what. Lots of people write free software in their spare time

So what? That has nothing to do with those who decide to charge because they depend on sales for a living.

Problem is that if they do that, it will spell the end of their iphone/itouch platform.

Like the iTMS spelled the end of online music sales?

 

[Llywelyn]

You're both aware that without open source and free software there would be no OSX right? So does that make OSX poor quality software?

Your reading comprehension is either startling bad or you didn't get past the first sentence of that paragraph you quoted.

There are some good counterexamples out there, but many if not most open source projects are undocumented messes with lousy user interfaces and/or designs.

If I say that "Many if not most of what is in X is poor" you can't say "y is in X, so you're saying y is poor?"

Except that there was no SDK at release and they are working damn hard to keep both the iphone and itouch from being jailbroken.

There are numerous reasons there was no public SDK when the device was released. Including, quite possibly, that they hadn't finished working out the documentation for it. Or the security kinks in the device. Or simply that they hadn't had time to develop the SDK in the rush to the release.

Mountains out of molehills.

Yes, they are trying to keep them from being jailbroken. What is your point? There are numerous (potentially good) reasons to disallow this, including that they don't want people mucking around until they have everything properly sandboxed off. The truth is: we do not know the whole story here, so it is pointless to try and make one up based on your own fears.

Some other evidence that they cripple on purpose? Look at the Airport/Airdisk fiasco and Time Machine.

This has what, exactly, to do with the iPod touch/iPhone SDK?

They even demoed Time Machine working over an air disk and took it out at the last minute. I think the Time Capsule shows pretty clearly why they did this.

Or it could simply not be working consistently or require certain firmware to be in place or a thousand other potential reasons. You really think they just sat around in a board room and said "hey! let's remove that feature we've already demoed and replace it with a product we can charge for!"

It could have happened that way, but it comes down to that you don't know. It also--still--has jack all to do with the topic of discussion.

Not to mention that they even go as far as crippling some the open source apps that they do include.

Quoting the article you linked to "To say that Apple has crippled DTrace on Mac OS X would be a bit alarmist."

But without getting embroiled in this debate (which has been both rehashed to death and is really making an enormous fuss about nothing): it has nothing whatsoever to do with the iPod Touch, the iPhone, or the upcoming SDK.

 

[rtdunham]

Apple's stock has gone from $200 to $135 in the past three months, certainly today is not the day to be excited for the stock. Wait till it bottoms out first. I think it'll drop another $10-$20.

You may well be right. At any rate, I hold a lot of apple stock; i'm disappointed at the fall; but i'm not selling it, because i'm confident it will rebound. And I bought some at 127 today and will buy more if it falls more.

My broker wouldn't accept my $10 bet, today, that apple would reach 175 again before the end of the year: That would be about a $50 gain, or about 40%. If you believe that kind of recovery is likely, that is something to be excited about.

I think the MSWF news that will have greatest impact on the company's fortunes was the new software for TV/new rental scheme/announcement that all six major studios are on board. I think in the next couple years those changes will give apple as firm a grip on the movie market as it currently has on music.

These are all merely opinions, of course. None of us can, nor should, pretend to know what can happen with either the world economy or an individual stock.

 

[Sweetbike40]

Ha

To all the people that said "It's just a music player". Obviously from the start it was more than that. I don't think it was ever intended to just be a high-end iPod.

 

[zoltamatron]

I think the iPod touch is everything that Apple wanted to do with the iPhone, but ATT wouldn't let them. The reason that the software is crippled in an SDK way is because it is based on the iPhone and was designed to be closed because of contract agreements with ATT. Apple probably realized halfway through the development process of the iPhone that the partnership with a wireless company was going to kill it in a lot of ways so they created a different product based on it. Now they can open up software development for it and get a real skype client on it and really change the wireless market. (I hope)

 

[GregA]

Apple probably realized halfway through the development process of the iPhone that the partnership with a wireless company was going to kill it in a lot of ways so they created a different product based on it. Now they can open up software development for it and get a real skype client on it and really change the wireless market. (I hope)

Ahhh... this is why I read forums. Things I hadn't thought about that make alot of sense

The iPod Touch is Apple's "Mainstream WiFi Mobile Platform" because Apple can expand it in any way they want. Not just future hardware (larger screens?, eMate devices?, bluetooth?) but software expansion too (VoIP/iChat, etc). The iPhone, in contrast, is a joint venture (so to speak) and much more restrictive due to the compromises/agreements Apple & AT&T have to make.

No difference now, but that could change. In fact, new enhancements might come to the Touch first, then trickle down to the iPhone once AT&T approves it.

Interesting musings

 

[Alphy]

I think the iPod touch is everything that Apple wanted to do with the iPhone, but ATT wouldn't let them. The reason that the software is crippled in an SDK way is because it is based on the iPhone and was designed to be closed because of contract agreements with ATT. Apple probably realized halfway through the development process of the iPhone that the partnership with a wireless company was going to kill it in a lot of ways so they created a different product based on it. Now they can open up software development for it and get a real skype client on it and really change the wireless market. (I hope)

Finally someone who hit the nail on the head.

 

[Popeye206]

Lets see 60 x 12 = $720! That is 720 dollars a year base to have the pleasure of owning an iPhone. That is Astronomical on a phone you are suppose to own outright. The question you have to ask yourself is why after buying your phone is Apple still taking cash from you every month.

If that isn't an issue consider that a pay as you go phone might cost you $180 bucks a YEAR! So one buys a Touch and has an outlay for the year that is still less than the iPhone Contract costs for all the devices he owns.

I hate to say this but if you look upon the iPhone contracts as being a good value you have your economics all screwed up. In many ways it is a rip off.

OMG! I guess you dont get it? First, I pay $120+ a month for my iPhone service. Why? because I use the darn thing to call! I won't even talk pre-paid phone... it would cost me 2-3 times more and no internet. Also... my point was, if I want or have to use a smart phone like an iPhone or Blackberry, the iPhone (with AT&T) is actually about $20 a month cheaper than the Blackberry for a similar plan.

I'll be paying the $120+ bucks a month no matter if I have a iPhone, or any other mobile phone. So your point is pointless.

 

[bloodycape]

Given that apparently iRiver<iAudio in sound quality, and that in my experience iAudio<iPod in sound quality I doubt it. Creative MP3 players do generally sound good though.

Creative has slight gone down hill in this respect(then again so has Apple). But you ask most audiophiles Cowon(iAudio) and iriver have one of the most distinct and best sounding players(sans the few bad players they have made). Then again from what I have seen Toshiba has gotten the best remarks in this category with all their players, and can be bought in store.

 

[bloodycape]

I think the iPod touch is everything that Apple wanted to do with the iPhone, but ATT wouldn't let them. The reason that the software is crippled in an SDK way is because it is based on the iPhone and was designed to be closed because of contract agreements with ATT. Apple probably realized halfway through the development process of the iPhone that the partnership with a wireless company was going to kill it in a lot of ways so they created a different product based on it. Now they can open up software development for it and get a real skype client on it and really change the wireless market. (I hope)

I would agree with you, if it weren't for the fact that that the itouch in some ways has less features than the iphone. Would it not have been a better idea for the itouch to have bluetooth from the start? So you can use a nice set of bt-phone(and even use it for phone calls once a full version of skype is released). Or add a 3mpx camera so you can take pictures, upload it to flicker or take video do a quick edit so you can upload it to youtube. I still think Apple is crippling the itouch so they can still sell an iphone.

 

[Stella]

(FWIW, I'm a proponent of opensource requirements for voting systems.)

But what's your point? You're not seriously suggesting that open source OS development that resulted in Unix, which has been going on for decades by the best minds in software is somehow comparable to Joe Crapware, writing some VB virus vector in his bedroom while trying to get a job through Monster?

Again, nothing goes on my machine that isn't from a supported, responsible source (at least as best I can determine) or that I or my company wrote.

*YOU* don't like opensource software, but don't you think thats a bit selfish to want Apple to have control over 3rd party applications?

After all,you are responsible for installing 3rd party applications on to your device. If you don't like certain 3rd party software, don't install it. Don't deprive others.

 

[eastcoastsurfer]

Or it could simply not be working consistently or require certain firmware to be in place or a thousand other potential reasons. You really think they just sat around in a board room and said "hey! let's remove that feature we've already demoed and replace it with a product we can charge for!"

It could have happened that way, but it comes down to that you don't know. It also--still--has jack all to do with the topic of discussion.

If you don't think that's how it went down, I have a bridge to sell you. If it was a firmware issue, then I would presume it's fixed now that they are selling the TC. So why isn't it released yet? And yes, their other 'lockins' do belong in the discussion because it shows the current mentality of the company.

The only people I can find anymore to defend Apple are on these boards. I have long time friends who are huge Apple supporters and they are all scratching their heads wondering wtf Apple is doing. The guy who got me to switch so long ago is now trying to figure out if he can move to linux b/c he's tired of Apples sheer arrogance. Kinda sad really.

But anyways, I hope you're right. That they will release the SDK and it'll be open for all to write software for and use free of charge.

 

[-Dark Angel-]

1) Pocket Informant - this basically craps all over any PIM on any device, iphone easily included. Full exchange integration, excellent contact grouping, easy color markings for events/contacts, syncable notes, and all sorts of great features that my office needs. And an interface closer to a desktop PIM without being unusable on the mobile platform.

Its a popular choice but I have to say I love Clie Organizer, I've yet to find one that helps mimics paper organizers in digital format.

 

[GQB]

*YOU* don't like opensource software, but don't you think thats a bit selfish to want Apple to have control over 3rd party applications?

After all,you are responsible for installing 3rd party applications on to your device. If you don't like certain 3rd party software, don't install it. Don't deprive others.

Not exactly...
You want an internet communicable device to be opened up to haphazard development by god-knows-who for god-knows-what reason, essentially turning it into the disease ridden swamp known as Windows.

You are right in that I'm underwhelmed by the 'miracle of openness' that has produced an unusable (and apparently unfixable) email protocol and the viral swamp we have to endure on other systems.

I turn the question around and ask you... why are you so angered by a gatekeeper system that checks that applications observe standards for stability and lack of malware?

 

[GQB]

The only people I can find anymore to defend Apple are on these boards.

Um, get away from your closed circle then.
Apple is beating the pants off of everyone in customer satisfaction surveys.
My experience is that the only places you see significant Apple bashing is ON these boards, ironically.

 

[EagerDragon]

I wonder why he did not make that statement about the iPhone also. As they are basically the same device, you would think his comment would also had included the iPhone.

I wonder!!!!!!!

 

[EagerDragon]

(FWIW, I'm a proponent of opensource requirements for voting systems.)

But what's your point? You're not seriously suggesting that open source OS development that resulted in Unix, which has been going on for decades by the best minds in software is somehow comparable to Joe Crapware, writing some VB virus vector in his bedroom while trying to get a job through Monster?

Again, nothing goes on my machine that isn't from a supported, responsible source (at least as best I can determine) or that I or my company wrote.

Did I misread your post?
Are not suggesting that UNIX was develop by the OpenSource movement?

Hope not, Unix been around a lot longer than OpenSource.

 

[jouster]

But anyways, I hope you're right. That they will release the SDK and it'll be open for all to write software for and use free of charge.

Maybe. But I have a feeling it won't be and they won't be. We'll see.

 

[GQB]

Did I misread your post?
Are not suggesting that UNIX was develop by the OpenSource movement?

Hope not, Unix been around a lot longer than OpenSource.

No, but I did mis-type it.
good catch.
I was referring to the subsequent branches.

 

[jayducharme]

I believe they did this with 1.1.2 update. Haven't missed any alarms since I updated to that.

Sadly, no. There is a calendar alarm, but it's "Time Passing," the weakest sound on the Touch. And so far there's no way to change it.

The alarm clock, on the other hand, has a half-dozen different alarm sounds to choose from. If I could use the "Checkmate" sound for my calendar, I'd be a happy puppy.