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I'd like to apologize. I didnt know you liked to watch the dvd's you rip ON your Mac. I was under the impression that you rip them only for the ipod. Do you leave the full screen file on your Mac or do you burn them to DVD? (if its not your DVD)
No worries. ;)

The original idea was so the iPod could be a portable DVD library, but it's not quite cut out for that. Now I'm just moving towards building a hard-drive based movie library similar to my music library. I felt really liberated when I'd ripped all my CDs in and put the crates into the back of the closet never to be exhumed-- I wondered if I could get the same rush from burying the DVDs. So far it's been a slow and less than deliberate process though.
 
I'm not calling anybody a whiner. I had high expectations too. I was just trying to let him know that you can make your movies smaller using Handbrake. I went with the 16gb so that i wont regret it down the line in case my
collection gets really big.

I didn't mean you. You're here being helpful. Cheers to that.
 
using a HD would mean compromising on the design and/or battery-life.

I see you kindly decided to omit exactly what I said to make your own point, which I had already made.

...although the battery life with a hard drive would be abysmal. So ok apple, I concede you do have a small point there.

I know all of the pros and cons of flash VS HDD, what im saying is that I personally would have been more than fine with a thicker touch with a hard drive. The points of slower seek time, overall aesthetics etc would be easily overcome.
For me the wi-fi, safari etc are less important on the whole.

Give me an ipod with the a widescreen, less extra features, the older UI, a thicker body to include a HDD and longer life battery and you could name your price IMO. In essence the ipod started as a MUSIC device, then became a video player. Which I think should have been the focus, instead of a half-assed iphone.
Aside from the capacity difference and international release dates for the iphone, and the fact that some people do not want to sign up to the AT&T EDGE network, I struggle to see the advantage of buying a touch over the iphone itself.

What i am saying is that I think that we could have had a fantastic product, and if it was released the way I have described, the market would be a hell of a lot larger for it. A lot of people will still buy it, but more would in the other case IMHO.
 
iPod Touch. For non-iTunes users everywhere.

So, the way to make this a decent device for storing video is to circumvent their content retail store? And that's good business how?

Do you really think Apple planned the iPod Touch thinking that most people will be using iTunes movies only? I think Apple is smart and they realize that most people will rip their own movies to it. And iTunes doesn't rip movies. And the resolution of movies in the iTunes Store is much higher than what is needed for the Touch.

If you want to use iTunes movies, you can put a few on, along with some music. The Touch is, obviously, not intended to carry your entire collection with you.

If people don't want to make it work, fine. But to call it a useless gadget is a lame thing to say.
 
Do you really think Apple planned the iPod Touch thinking that most people will be using iTunes movies only? I think Apple is smart and they realize that most people will rip their own movies to it. And iTunes doesn't rip movies. And the resolution of movies in the iTunes Store is much higher than what is needed for the Touch.

If you want to use iTunes movies, you can put a few on, along with some music. The Touch is, obviously, not intended to carry your entire collection with you.

If people don't want to make it work, fine. But to call it a useless gadget is a lame thing to say.

Useless for the main purpose of needing a larger screen in the first place: video. Unless of course you don't care about carrying music or pictures, and you have the time and inclination to resync this thing every other day and a good estimation of what music exactly you'll want to hear everyday for the next week. Ok, too harsh for you? Let's call it marginally useful.

Sure, lots of other uses as a bigger screen nano with wireless capabilities you can only use in the fortunate even you find a free, unprotected wireless network out there. But you know what? People graduate college, and out in the real world free wifi is not so widespread.

Don't have a big library? Here's the thing. Over time, it won't get any smaller. Don't need to carry everything? Fine. But something that doesn't allow you to shouldn't cost $400. I even concede no device will ever be portable and allow you to carry your entire video library in today's realistic standards. But you should be able to carry enough for a long trip and not have that be at the expense of a music collection, something existing and affodable technology could allow for.

Let's be real: video requires large storage. The main use for a large screen is video. These principles make this thing incompatible with its main purpose. Unless, of course, you're one of the many people who think its main purpose is to flash the cool new thing around to your friends. Then you've been well served. Will it sell? Sure. They could bottle Steve Jobs' sweat and people would buy it. Could they have a much bigger market had they gone a different, or at the very least an additional direction? Will even you dispute that?

Have your Touch. All people complaining here want is to have an option to have theirs. Seems like people who think this is enough just don't want that option to exist.
 
any iphone owners gonna get a ipod-touch? if so why? i have a iphone and am really debating on weather or not to get a ipod touch...
 
Useless for the main purpose of needing a larger screen in the first place: video. Unless of course you don't care about carrying music or pictures, and you have the time and inclination to resync this thing every other day and a good estimation of what music exactly you'll want to hear everyday for the next week. Ok, too harsh for you? Let's call it marginally useful.

Sure, lots of other uses as a bigger screen nano with wireless capabilities you can only use in the fortunate even you find a free, unprotected wireless network out there. But you know what? People graduate college, and out in the real world free wifi is not so widespread.

Don't have a big library? Here's the thing. Over time, it won't get any smaller. Don't need to carry everything? Fine. But something that doesn't allow you to shouldn't cost $400. I even concede no device will ever be portable and allow you to carry your entire video library in today's realistic standards. But you should be able to carry enough for a long trip and not have that be at the expense of a music collection, something existing and affodable technology could allow for.

Let's be real: video requires large storage. The main use for a large screen is video. These principles make this thing incompatible with its main purpose. Unless, of course, you're one of the many people who think its main purpose is to flash the cool new thing around to your friends. Then you've been well served. Will it sell? Sure. They could bottle Steve Jobs' sweat and people would buy it. Could they have a much bigger market had they gone a different, or at the very least an additional direction? Will even you dispute that?

Have your Touch. All people complaining here want is to have an option to have theirs. Seems like people who think this is enough just don't want that option to exist.

I agree completely. I'm just going to keep waiting until Apple finally delivers a true video iPod. This one is not it. The features of the iPod touch make it way too cool to bother with the classic line, even though the classic line is a huge improvement over my iPod Photo 30 gig. But it's not an improvement in the most important area for videos: screen size. That's why I skipped the 5 and 5.5G iPods. Their screens aren't big enough as video players. The new classic line is the best music iPod ever created for sure. It's hard to beat 80 gig for $250 and the slimness of the previous 5.5G's 30 gig iPod. It's a hell of a deal, but I think I'll just keep waiting until Apple can manage to negotiate the price of flash down to a reasonable situation where they can produce a 80+ gig iPod touch. Until then, I'll just stay in the dark ages I suppose. :D
 
any iphone owners gonna get a ipod-touch? if so why? i have a iphone and am really debating on weather or not to get a ipod touch...

What are your reasons for getting the touch? More capacity? If I were you I wouldnt. What size iPhone do you have?
 
8gb iphone and i have it full right now with about 15 shows and the rest music. i am thinking the i-touch for video only viewing, and the iphone is mainly just a phone for me. has anyone heard or know if it would be possible to swap out the 16gb flash for an 32?


What are your reasons for getting the touch? More capacity? If I were you I wouldnt. What size iPhone do you have?
 
The price drop of the iphone does look like an almost panic reaction which is maybe why the shares went down when they announced the new ipods. apple own the MP3 player market but they are very much the new bloods in the highly aggressive mobile market. Companies like Nokia are going to make life as tough as they can for apple to try and stop them getting a foothold. In some ways its good apple have started playing the game and are taking the fight to these companies rather than being an easy target. It looks like apple are flying by the seat of their pants a bit doesn't it. I don't think they would want to upset the loyal early adopters without good reason.
 
The 16 GB may be disappointing for some, but here's how I look at it.

I have around 15 Gb of music, 6 GB of pictures, and a ton of movies. I'm looking at my play counts in iTunes and it seems I am listening to the same songs over and over...my top rated play list has maybe 100 songs that I really like. The other couple thousand I only like to listen to once in a while...there are maybe 1000 songs that I'd say I listen to on a "regular" basis while only 100 of those I listen to "frequently". Many songs in my library have a play count of <5.

So while I do have everything on my 30 gb iPod, I don't use all of it. I only listen to some of it. I like the FM radio remote I have, and I'm guessing that won't work on the iPod Touch (or will it?).

I look forward to having the PDA functionality in my iPod touch so I can stop using my axim. my axim has way more advanced calendar features but now that I'm in university (and thus just have midterms and finals) I don't really need the advanced features.

My biggest gripe about the touch is that it won't be here til october! waaaaaa waaaaa:(
 
Looks like iSuppli has the same questions many of us do:

"It raises the question of why a company would offer its best display, needed for videos - particularly films - without employing the corresponding high storage capacities useful for video storage, iSuppli notes.

"Why was Apple against the idea of an iPod touch with a hard drive? It seems like Apple had anticipated flash prices being lower and being able to offer higher capacities for the iPod touch," iSuppli said.
http://www.macworld.co.uk/digitallifestyle/news/index.cfm?RSS&NewsID=19027
 
and how exactly do "sexy" and "CPU power" have anything to do with "difficulty in putting HDD in Touch"? which is exactly my example of palm LD was FOR.

The point is that if they wanted to put HD in to Touch, they would have to make compromises. They would have to sacrifice on size, weight and battery-life. You can't really go around that fact. Palm might have HD, but then again Palm is not exactly renowned for their design. They CAN make those sacrifices. And does the Palm have similar screen as the Touch does? That screen eats power as well.

But, all this might be moot soon. If Apple is smart, they will make it possible to stream content over AirTunes to/from the Touch. IF you have access to multi-gigabyte music-library through AirTunes, the size of internal storage becomes less important.

And, related to this: I bet that they will replace iPod Hifi with AirTunes-enabled Hifi.
 
They didn't because iPhone is enormously profitable to them. Apple does not want to create their own iPhone killer.

iPhone is a phone. iPod (touch or not) is not. It's not going to kill the iPhone.

The Touch with its nano-sized storage

It has twice the storage of Nano

is a niche product only

I wouldn't be one bit surprised if Touch becomes a runaway hit. And in any case, niche it will NOT be.

As to iPod classic, yeah, it's fine...if you like watching video on a digital camera preview screen.

People have been doing that on 5G iPod, what has changed?

Never worked for me...but a PSP-sized widescreen with the same massive storage---that's a spicy meatball!

Get the Touch then. But if you hate the storage and you hate the screen on the Classic, then Archos has some suitable players for you. Yes, their players weight around 200g (topping out at 260g), and they are so big that you can't actually fit them in your pocket, but they ARE one option.

so you aren't going to see it in Touch even if it was a technical slamdunk.

They can fit 1-2 Flash-chips in the touch. With two chips, their storage tops out at 16GB with current technology. And HD is not really an option. USing a HD would have meant making such compromises to the device that they were not willing to make. It really is as simple as that. "technical slamdunk" would mean that they could put HD in there with no drawbacks. And that is something they can NOT do.

Now, the end-result might not be suitable for you. But it is for me and lots of other people. And that's just the way it goes. Some people are crazy about Mighty Mouse. But it's not suitable for me. Yet I don't start complaining about how Apple has betrayed me or something.
 
I just love watching the complaint Apple has received about their iPods over time :).

Problems:
1. No Mail? No Weather? Major fumbles, IMO.
2. No camera? It's minor, I admit, but it sure would've been a nice touch.
4. Both devices (iPhone and iPod touch) need an AIM client.

OK, first Apple received complaints that iPod does not do video. They added video. Then people complained that it has no WiFi. They added Wifi. And NOW we get complaints that it has no email, weather-app, IM or camera.

Folks: Fact of the matter is that it does not matter what kind of iPod they release people will complain. When they add some "must have"-feature, people start demanding something else instead. And now they want email and camera on the iPod :).
 
any iphone owners gonna get a ipod-touch? if so why? i have a iphone and am really debating on weather or not to get a ipod touch...

What does the Touch do that the iPhone can't, apart from extra storage?

To be honest, I can see no reason for anyone buying a Touch, why not just buy an iPhone instead? That way you get a phone included as well, not to mention email.
 
Get the Touch then. But if you hate the storage and you hate the screen on the Classic, then Archos has some suitable players for you. Yes, their players weight around 200g (topping out at 260g), and they are so big that you can't actually fit them in your pocket, but they ARE one option..

Archos
Avg 122 x 82 x 15 mm/4.8'' x 3.2'' x 0.6'' (For 4/30GB* models) - 150gr/190gr
Avg 122 x 82 x 20 mm/4.8'' x 3.2'' x 0.75'' (For 80/160GB* models) - 260gr

What are the specs on touch / iPhone ?

I prefer having less weight.... I still think the 5.5g iPod is a tad to heavy to carry in your pocket........
 
That's just silly. It's supposed to prove that catering to only the portion of the potential buyers with small collections or the time and patience to resync constantly and not mind not having something you might on a whim wish you could listen to is a horrible business decision.

The Touch has the amount of storage it has because they could not fit more storage in there. That is the reason. And do you consider anything under 16GB as being "small library"? Hell, I have 1000 songs and it's only around 5GB! 16GB would be over 3000 songs! I don't think I have a "small" collection, far far from it. I think my collection is quite typical if not slightly bigger than average. No, people with 20+GB music-libraries are NOT the majority.

If Apple is now under the policy of saying there are better media players out there for great numbers of people instead of saying they have the best ones through and through, they must have fired their marketing people who built the iPod arm of the company to be their most profitable one and hired instead people with your mindset.

Touch with an HD would NOT be "best mediaplayer through and through". There would be competing players out there that have better battery-life and smaller size. Like it or not, creating a mediaplayer that would be superior to everything else in all areas is next to impossible. Yes, there are players out there with more storage than Touch has. But they are bigger and clumsier. Yes, there are players out there that are smaller than the Touch is, but they have less storage and smaller screens. It's all about balancing things out and making design-decision. Simply saying "this will be the best in every metric!" is not realistic way of designing a product.

I seriously can't understand this mentality. They improved all their iPods by a large margin. They also introduced a brand-new line of iPods that does not replace any iPod before it. Rather, it coexists alongside them. And when that new iPod does not beat the other iPods in every single area, it somehow means that the new iPod sucks, that Apple sucks and how Apple is doomed? It boggles the mind, really. Apple has had separate product-lines for different people for a long time, and now that they improve their existing products, and introduce additional product-line, people whine? If you don't like the Touch, get the Classic. If you already own 5G iPod, Classic is a no-brainer if you insist on getting a new iPod: it's better than your old iPod in every single way.

You can be damn sure that Apple feels that they have the best mediaplayers in the business. But the thing is that they do not feel that they have one single mediaplayer that is superior to their other mediaplayers. And that's how it has always been. When I bought my Mini over two years ago, I could have bought the full-sized iPod instead. I didn't because I felt that the Mini is better FOR ME. Th full-sized iPod was and is not the be-all end all iPod that is superior to all other devices. If it were, they would have never released the Mini. Same thing here: some people will prefer the Classic, and some will prefer the Touch. Neither of them is the definite iPod that is superior to everything else. It all boils down to your priorities and preferences.

If you compare the Nano and Classic with the Touch, you would see that they are very different indeed. Touch is not your typical mediaplayer of the old, it's something new, with new usage-paradigm. Hell, if they had called the Touch "Newton", no-one would be complaining.

No wonder the stock is tanking ever since the announcement.

Apple stock ALWAYS tanks after announcements.
 
Archos
Avg 122 x 82 x 15 mm/4.8'' x 3.2'' x 0.6'' (For 4/30GB* models) - 150gr/190gr
Avg 122 x 82 x 20 mm/4.8'' x 3.2'' x 0.75'' (For 80/160GB* models) - 260gr

What are the specs on touch / iPhone ?

I prefer having less weight.... I still think the 5.5g iPod is a tad to heavy to carry in your pocket........

iPod Touch:

* Height: 4.3 inches (110 mm)
* Width: 2.4 inches (61.8 mm)
* Depth: 0.31 inch (8 mm)
* Weight: 4.2 ounces (120 grams)
 
iPod Touch:

* Height: 4.3 inches (110 mm)
* Width: 2.4 inches (61.8 mm)
* Depth: 0.31 inch (8 mm)
* Weight: 4.2 ounces (120 grams)

Thanks for that...... and there are tools on this forum who want those dimensions with a 80GB hard drive ! yeah right.... well done apple..... keeping form factor in line with functionality....
 
What does the Touch do that the iPhone can't, apart from extra storage? .

Does the iPhone have wifi?

If not, that'd be reason enough for me. Touch = brilliant device for a bit of light bedroom browsing. (Not like "that" :p "That" needs a bigger screen!)

Folks: Fact of the matter is that it does not matter what kind of iPod they release people will complain.

They could find a cure for AIDS and people would complain. Some people are just like that.


Edit: One More Thing. Apple have just recently proven that they do listen to customers. I'd be highly surprised if they don't find some way to increase the storage (without hurting iPhone sales or whatever) within the next 6 months. And if I then come on here and see people whining that they bought a 16GB model (despite wanting bigger) only for them to have released a 160GB one 2 months later I will not be sympathetic a second time :p
 
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