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I know all of the pros and cons of flash VS HDD, what im saying is that I personally would have been more than fine with a thicker touch with a hard drive.

And apparently Apple would not be fine with it.

And consider this: Touch is basically iPhone with few changes. using HD instead of Flash would mean drastic changes to the internal circuitry. Flash si soldered to the motherboard, HD is not. That would eliminate economies of scale. As things are right now, Apple can produce circuitboards for Touch/iPhone in huge volumes, since there are no big differences between them.

The points of slower seek time, overall aesthetics etc would be easily overcome.

what makes you think that?

Give me an ipod with the a widescreen, less extra features, the older UI, a thicker body to include a HDD and longer life battery and you could name your price IMO.

But you can't please everyone. My ideal car characteristics from several different cars. But such a car does not exist, I need to pick something that is available.

In essence the ipod started as a MUSIC device, then became a video player. Which I think should have been the focus, instead of a half-assed iphone.

Then get the Classic.... No-one is forcing you to buy the Touch. The Classic is still a lot better iPod than what 5G iPod was.

What i am saying is that I think that we could have had a fantastic product, and if it was released the way I have described, the market would be a hell of a lot larger for it.

Apparently market-studies conducted by Apple disagree with you.
 
Let's be real: video requires large storage. The main use for a large screen is video. These principles make this thing incompatible with its main purpose. Unless, of course ...

... the large screen is meant for browsing the web? or watching photos in all their glory? or just since its touch screen you would need some decent space so as to move your fingers about ..

we have iPod 5G ... iPod 5.5G and now iPod classic .. all three claimed to be the video iPods and all three have fairly small screens .. so if big screen is justification for 'video only' then the three previous generations of iPod video were flawed and shouldn't have sold as well as they did.

iPod touch is for video .. ofcourse it is .. but in moderation .. only take 4 or 5 movies with you.. and they'll fit in nice even on 8GB with 2GB of music to boot .. enough for a road trip ..
 
Edit: One More Thing. Apple have just recently proven that they do listen to customers. I'd be highly surprised if they don't find some way to increase the storage (without hurting iPhone sales or whatever) within the next 6 months. And if I then come on here and see people whining that they bought a 16GB model (despite wanting bigger) only for them to have released a 160GB one 2 months later I will not be sympathetic a second time :p

And if anything keeps me holding out on replacing my old 10Gb 3G iPod, it's that exact fear.

Otherwise, as a Verizon user with iPhone envy I was cheering when I saw that Apple not only provided the interface but kept Wifi *and* Safari. After all the posts on this board it seemed too much to hope. Of course the drive size was disappointing to hear, but I understand there wasn't a choice if going flash. In this case we just have to be patient for technology/prices to catch up.

Overall I'm very happy and may well bite on the 16Gb. :D

(ETA - shouldn't have said exact since I know 160Gb was an exaggeration!)
 
And if anything keeps me holding out on replacing my old 10Gb 3G iPod, it's that exact fear.

Otherwise, as a Verizon user with iPhone envy I was cheering when I saw that Apple not only provided the interface but kept Wifi *and* Safari. After all the posts on this board it seemed too much to hope. Of course the drive size was disappointing to hear, but I understand there wasn't a choice if going flash. In this case we just have to be patient for technology/prices to catch up.

Overall I'm very happy and may well bite on the 16Gb. :D

Its hardly going to jump to 160gb in two months ! I can see the next step to 32GB around July next year maybe a little earlier.... first of all 32GB needs to come down in price and be enough of it around to stock the inventories..... remember product, placement and price....... 16gb is on the threshold of my collection but it will do just fine for the next 6-12 months....... when I get a 32gb that will be fine and I'll give my 16gb to someone else..... mark my words streaming sites will get bigger and bigger...... facebook etc. will get bigger bigger...... youTube will become a TV station..... keeping large amounts of files on home hard-drives is not the way of the future...... Microsoft may think so (home server) but they have already lost the race on portable internet/streaming devices…. I mean fark me the new nano holds more than the original iPod and is the size of a postage stamp and does video……! who would have thought !
 
No-one is talking about Wi-Fi being used for Wireless Headphones......can this be done???.........Bluetooth???
 
Research just in...

If Apple would have put a large hard drive inside the iPod TOUCH and eliminated what is now the iPod Classic, consumers would have complained that the iPhone is flawed for not having the same hard drive.

So as not to cannibalize sales of the iPhone, Apple had to make other products in the line compelling, though not quite as good as the top-of-the-line iPhone.
 
I don't think it's right for some of you to shout down others who are disappointed with the release. I think the touch is a GREAT first step towards finally creating a real iPod video, but it does NOT cater to their entire market. It leaves out a significant number of people who DO have more than 16 gigs of music, movies, and photos. Eventually they will get there and I'll keep waiting until that time comes, but it's a shame they're forcing people to choose between the storage of the classic and the features of the touch. Eventually they will get it right, it's just the price of flash memory has to drop.
 
the price of flash memory wont drop for a long time. It is the best out there. I think Apple is going to release a touch with a HDD in about half a year. It is going to be thick and slow, but if thats what the people want...:rolleyes:
 
I know this won't convince anyone, but I'm looking to up my post count, so ...

GET A GRIP

If you don't like the storage on the new iPod Touch, then don't buy it. Apple obviously didn't cater to your requirements, so if it's a deal-breaker, then don't buy it.

If you DO like the storage, or if it doesn't bother you, then stop trying to convince people who have their hearts set against it -- you're NOT going to be able to convince them!

This thread is just argument after argument, and they're all saying (nearly the same thing).
 
What does the Touch do that the iPhone can't, apart from extra storage?

To be honest, I can see no reason for anyone buying a Touch, why not just buy an iPhone instead? That way you get a phone included as well, not to mention email.

And locked into a service contract.

There is also an issue that many people do not want a pocket multimedia player, with a built in cell phone. If this wasn't the case, the iPod Touch would never have been brought to market, and iPod sales would have dropped drastically over the past few years.

The fact is now the iPhone costs less than the iPod Touch line. I see no reason for the iPod Touch not to have an email client in it, as well as all the other non phone features that the iPhone contains. Yea it can't send email when you are not within WIFI range, but neither can a Macbook.

Apple should enable more features in the iPod Touch, it costs more, and likely will be more popular than the iPhone based on it's not being a phone, and not requiring AT&T Service! Though that is just my personal speculation.

The space issue

Not an issue for me. I have both a 3g 15gb (not full) and a 5g 30gb (not full). Even with 12gb of music on my 15gb it has OVER 7 days worth of playable music on it. Well over the Battery life of my iPod, and it usually is docked once every 2 days for recharge and for playlist changes anyway. I also only listen to 30% of the music on it, with the rest just taking up space!

Since the new iPod touch has 1gb larger capacity, and video abilities, I should be good to go!
 
Palm LD has exactly big screen, HDD, Wi-Fi, SD expansion slot, and its a two years old product. I don't see why its so difficult for apple to do it today.

The LifeDrive had a 4GB microdrive, just like the iPod mini had when it came out. Sure, you can tout that as "a HDD", but it's kind of deceiving to do so.

Have you looked at microdrives lately? CF cards? 16GB ain't cheap.
 

a.k.a. Not ready for prime time until that price drop materializes. I guess I'll wait another 2 years or so for a 128 GB. I don't really have the need to have he latest gadget out there that much that'll trump functionality.

That analysis very much mirrors all the complaints here, then. If they launched a product in anticipation of a price drop that'll allow for the product to be proper for video, then the product isn't quite ready at the launch stage. And if it isn't, the launch is, as we've been saying, just underwhelming.

It'll be a kick ass product one day. Right now, it's just for posing.
 
The point is that if they wanted to put HD in to Touch, they would have to make compromises. They would have to sacrifice on size, weight and battery-life. You can't really go around that fact. Palm might have HD, but then again Palm is not exactly renowned for their design. They CAN make those sacrifices. And does the Palm have similar screen as the Touch does? That screen eats power as well.

But, all this might be moot soon. If Apple is smart, they will make it possible to stream content over AirTunes to/from the Touch. IF you have access to multi-gigabyte music-library through AirTunes, the size of internal storage becomes less important.

And, related to this: I bet that they will replace iPod Hifi with AirTunes-enabled Hifi.

It's a compromise either way. The way many of us see it, they went for size/weight/slightly better battery capacity compromising a major factor: storage. Have they compromised the right way? To many, yes, to many, no. Unlucky us who'd rather have capacity.
 
guess apple didn't want sprint and verizon customers feeling left out

this is one of those products that cost nothing to develop because its an iphone without the phone. didn't even bother putting a bigger HD in it. i wonder who apple is targeting to buy this...
 
No, people with 20+GB music-libraries are NOT the majority.

Neither are they a dismissible share of the market. Ask Apple stock holders.

I seriously can't understand this mentality. They improved all their iPods by a large margin. They also introduced a brand-new line of iPods that does not replace any iPod before it. Rather, it coexists alongside them. And when that new iPod does not beat the other iPods in every single area, it somehow means that the new iPod sucks, that Apple sucks and how Apple is doomed? It boggles the mind, really.

Quite easy to understand, really. Unless you're so hell-bent on defending everything they do that reason doesn't matter. Simply, they finally added a screen that justifies video-playing capacity, but they made it so that you have to compromise a core principle of the iPod, the ability to carry a larger library, in order to make use of it. In doing so, they made its purchase at current standards hype-driven only. They're pretty much telling you to wait to buy it, but many won't listen to reason and will buy it right away because they just have to have the latest thing out there. Much like the suckers who bought the iPhone at $600. That doesn't mean they didn't hang a great number of customers they've been fostering out to dry. For now, at least.

As for Apple sucking, being doomed, etc. I haven't read that here yet. Those are your words trying to turn legitimate complaints into hyperbole. No, they continue to be a great company and this will not kill them. It will rob them of many, many sales. For that, and for telling the customers they groomed over 6 years to believe carrying your entire library was the reason to keep updating that they now have to be content with a product they just officially made antiquated (Classic,) this was a big drop of the ball. And they have done it before, as much as you think they're infallible. Cube, anyone?

The Touch will be a great product one day. Right now, it isn't. For me and many more people than you're willing to admit. But Apple knows there are many others out there who'll buy on hype alone. So, they launched it anyway. Good for those people, and for you. As for your small library, just remember it won't get any smaller over time. So, in two years or so, when they have a 128GB and people like me will finally decide it's a good time to buy, you'll be buying your second one and selling your 16B for nothing on eBay.

Apple stock ALWAYS tanks after announcements.

When was the last time it dropped 10% in 2 days? You know what that means? That's 12 billion dollars of cap value erased in less tan 48 hours. Let me say that again: 12 BILLION DOLLARS.
 
I'm quite surprised at how many disappointed people there are. As many people have pointed out before....do you really want all your songs at one time? 8GB or 16GB is still quite a lot of music and you can still have a few videos on it. If its not enough...go the classic?
While I know there are some out there that travel a lot and don't have access to their entire music library, I'd say at this point with technology and the price of flash vs. hard drive for storage, the iPod touch will eventually offer larger storage.

Personally, unless I was on the road 3 out of 4 weeks a month, I can't imagine needing my entire music and video library with me everywhere I went. I barely scratch the surface with the 20gb of music I have in my iPod 5G 30gb.

If anything, the 16gb iPod touch will help me narrow down the stuff I carry with me that I really do listen to.
 
education discount?

has anyone else noticed that the education discount for the new ipods is gone? before i used to be able to get a discount on ipod purchases, but apparently that has ended with this generation of ipods.

i know that prob doesn't mean much to most people here, but on a working student's budget, even just a 10% discount is helpful.
 
I don't think it's right for some of you to shout down others who are disappointed with the release. I think the touch is a GREAT first step towards finally creating a real iPod video, but it does NOT cater to their entire market. It leaves out a significant number of people who DO have more than 16 gigs of music, movies, and photos. Eventually they will get there and I'll keep waiting until that time comes, but it's a shame they're forcing people to choose between the storage of the classic and the features of the touch. Eventually they will get it right, it's just the price of flash memory has to drop.

Amen.
 
has anyone else noticed that the education discount for the new ipods is gone? before i used to be able to get a discount on ipod purchases, but apparently that has ended with this generation of ipods.

i know that prob doesn't mean much to most people here, but on a working student's budget, even just a 10% discount is helpful.


Apple got rid of the education discout a year ago. I'm guessing too much abuse.
 
The LifeDrive had a 4GB microdrive, just like the iPod mini had when it came out. Sure, you can tout that as "a HDD", but it's kind of deceiving to do so.

Have you looked at microdrives lately? CF cards? 16GB ain't cheap.

On top of that, the LifeDrive was criticized for exactly the same reason many of us think an iPod Touch with HD might be difficult to produce- laggy UI response compared to the non-HD Palm PDA's.
 
When was the last time it dropped 10% in 2 days? You know what that means? That's 12 billion dollars of cap value erased in less tan 48 hours. Let me say that again: 12 BILLION DOLLARS.

It's a very volatile stock anyway with a high P/E. 10% in 2 days is nothing, I say that as an Apple shareholder who has gone through some ups and downs (but mostly ups! :)) I think it dropped than much in one day following a recent January MacWorld.
 
True, it's not right to shout down others no matter what the issue being discussed.

The only thing that I disagree with, is that many people are totally glossing over what may have been significant technical issues in creating an HD-based Touch. To be honest, none of us really know for sure. But battery life and UI responsiveness are both significant potential factors IMO.

Also significant is simply the fact that the flash-based iPods have always significantly outsold the HD-based ones. A thicker HD Touch would have been the dream device for the real power user (and may still arrive), but I think it's very debatably which is more attractive to the general market, and which would sell more.

I don't think it's right for some of you to shout down others who are disappointed with the release. I think the touch is a GREAT first step towards finally creating a real iPod video, but it does NOT cater to their entire market. It leaves out a significant number of people who DO have more than 16 gigs of music, movies, and photos. Eventually they will get there and I'll keep waiting until that time comes, but it's a shame they're forcing people to choose between the storage of the classic and the features of the touch. Eventually they will get it right, it's just the price of flash memory has to drop.
 
Apple got rid of the education discout a year ago. I'm guessing too much abuse.

you still get student discount on macbooks though I think ... I got 14% discount on mine in jan 2007 .. and I just checked

macbook RRP 699 GBP
macbook (student discount) 649 GBP

[edit] I bought the new Apple keyboard last month and got student discount on that ... :S so i'll definitely get my iPod Touch from the store .. that way I might get that 10% off ..
 
Neither are they a dismissible share of the market. Ask Apple stock holders.

Yes, there's quite a few people who have multi-gigabyte libraries. And still, iPod Nano outsells the HD-iPod.... And Shuffle has sold over 10 million units. Even if you have large library, you do not have to have it all with you. I have actually looked at my library, and I have come to the conclusion, that I could create a smart playlist that would only have the songs I actually listen to (as opposed to skipping over them every single time I come across them), I would be able to trim that collection to maybe 2GB in size. Less than half the size of my full library.

Quite easy to understand, really. Unless you're so hell-bent on defending everything they do that reason doesn't matter. Simply, they finally added a screen that justifies video-playing capacity, but they made it so that you have to compromise a core principle of the iPod, the ability to carry a larger library

What is "larger library"? Their best-selling iPods have LESS storage than touch has. Hell, I have about 12GB of podcasts on my computer, and I only have maybe 100MB of them with me at one time. For some reason I have no need to have all that stuff with me. I could drop over half of my music from my iPod, and my music-listening habits would not change one bit, apart from not having to hit "next" all the time.

In doing so, they made its purchase at current standards hype-driven only.

So, you are basically claiming that anyone who buys the touch is an idiot being driven by hype? Or in other words: Whereas you are smart when you see touch as a failure, everyone else who disagrees with you is an idiot?

They're pretty much telling you to wait to buy it, but many won't listen to reason and will buy it right away because they just have to have
the latest thing out there.

Or maybe, just maybe they feel that the touch is a perfect fit for their needs? I'm planning to get one as soon as possible. It fits my entire music-library with ease, and double so if I limit myself to the songs I actually listen to. It has more than enough space for video and podcasts. It offers superior browsing-experience when compared to my Nokia 770. It's a lot more than merely media-player. I have noticed that my iPod Mini has become a bit more to me than just an mp3-player. And I feel that the versatility of the touch will carry that to the next level.

What if I got the classic instead? Well, it would be mostly empty since I simply do not have enough stuff to put there. I could maybe put all my movies in there, but that would be pointless, since I do not watch them all the time. And I would lose the functionality touch has that I actually find very useful for my purposes. But maybe you are right: maybe I'm just an idiot being driven by hype.

As for Apple sucking, being doomed, etc. I haven't read that here yet. Those are your words trying to turn legitimate complaints into hyperbole.

But it is very simple really: if touch does not fit your needs, buy something else. It fits my needs perfectly, and I'll be getting one ASAP. I'm not trying to claim that it fits everyones needs. Many people have a need for large storage. But Apple has a product just for you. And if that product does not fit your needs (which would be odd, if 5G iPod fit your needs, why wouldn't 6G iPod do so as well), you need to look elsewhere, like Archos.

No, they continue to be a great company and this will not kill them. It will rob them of many, many sales. For that, and for telling the customers they groomed over 6 years to believe carrying your entire library was the reason to keep updating that they now have to be content with a product they just officially made antiquated (Classic,) this was a big drop of the ball.

They have been selling devices that wont fit a large library FOR YEARS. What exactly has changed here? Apple has touted the iPod classic and it's predecessors as the device that will hold everything you have. Mini, Nano and Shuffle has been marketed as something else. And touch is not marketed as "take everything with you" device either. The "have it all" device is, and has always been, the iPod classic.

And they have done it before, as much as you think they're infallible. Cube, anyone?

Where exactly have I claimed that they are infallible? I believe that Apple has made and continues to make serious mistakes, their incomplete lineup of computers being one of them.

The Touch will be a great product one day. Right now, it isn't.

That is your personal opinion and not universal truth.

For me and many more people than youre willing to admit.

And there are lots of people who feel that is IS a great product. You can't please everyone, and touch obviously is not for everyone. Neiter is Shuffle or Nano, or classic.

But Apple knows there are many others out there who'll buy on hype alone. So, they launched it anyway. Good for those people, and for you. As for your small library

Like I said: I don't think my library is "small". It's propaby a bit bigger than average.

just remember it won't get any smaller over time. So, in two years or so, when they have a 128GB and people like me will finally decide it's a good time to buy, you'll be buying your second one and selling your 16B for nothing on eBay.

I bought my mini a bit over two years ago, and if I sold it tday, I could propably get 20-30 bucks for it

When was the last time it dropped 10% in 2 days?

Shareprce seemed to take a sharp turn downwards after they introduced the new iMac.
 
im getting tired of all of this fighting. I have a REAL QUESTION!!

What kind of third party apps are being made for the iPhone? I wanna know because I just bought my Touch and wanna know what might be possible for it.

Thanks!
 
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