Iran Reportedly Warns Apple is Among Potential Targets

[Alameda]

Fact: Jews has been a majority in Israel since WW2. Before that, you need to go back 2000 years to see Jews as a majority. Before that, Jews was a majority as far back as history shows.

I’m not the arbiter of which point in history determines ownership. But them are facts.

The conflict exists because we cannot agree on whether the land was stolen from someone 78 or 1956 years ago. I personally don’t think I need to take side.

So… your “peace plan” is “kick out the Jews”?

How will your peace plan lead to peace? And, before you tell me “kick out the Jews” is not your plan… you are clearly saying that Israel has no legitimate right to exist. Allowing all descendants of Palestinians to move into Israel would eventually create an Arab majority, and in that instant the Jews would be expelled. This is not acceptable to Israelis and so your position cannot possibly lead to peace.

 

[chmania]

So… your “peace plan” is “kick out the Jews”?

What would happen when the US falls into a deep depression? I’m not saying “if,” but when. One certain weary old man’s reckless decision to attack an ancient civilisation showed the world there are far tougher constraints than nuclear weapons: geography. For the past 41 days the Persian Gulf and the Red Sea entrance to the Indian Ocean have been effectively closed to the US (and NATO, Israel, etc.). The US dollar rests on trust, not on anything tangible. So, once that trust is gone, what will happen to the currency? Would the US be able to sustain Israel then?

 

[Velli]

According to the Muslims, the inhabitants were all Muslim. Got it.
Do you know why? Because the Muslims were colonizers. That is why Constantinople is called Istanbul.

The book is interesting. Page 402 in particular:
“The sultans having arrogated to themselves, by way of conquest, the property of all the lands of Syria, the inhabitants can no longer pretend to any real, or even any personal property. When a father dies, the inheritance reverts to the Sultan, or his delagage, and the children can only redeem the succession by a considerable sum of money. Hence arises an indifference to landed estates, which proves fatal to agriculture.” Such was the situation in Palestine under Ottoman rule until the British came into power.

The simple truth is this: Both Jews and Muslims have lived there for a very long time, and there was no way that the Jews living under Muslim rule would be treated with equality, which has been proven over and over, so therefore, they wanted and need a small, Jewish state. And when it happened, the Arabs completely lost their marbles. LOOK AT THE MAP. It’s simple: The Arabs had all the power in the region and they were certain they could militarily defeat a 1 day old country.

Calling Israel the “colonizer” amidst all of that colonization is ridiculous. And Muslim leaders have long been clear about it: They believe in Muslim law ruling over the entirety of Northern Africa and the Mideast. The Israeli conflict is based on Muslim religion.

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Oh I don’t disagree with at least most of that. As said, I think we have two bad parties, not one good and one bad. I reacted to your completely bogus statement that there is no factual history before 1850.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

A very nice summary here from Ben

View attachment 2620862

The other thing worth noting is the currency in which the (planned, putative) tolls in the Gulf of Hormuz will be paid; it is not the dollar.

 

[Velli]

So… your “peace plan” is “kick out the Jews”?

No, I have stated clearly that this is an unsolvable problem. I have no peace plan, I have accepted that this area will not have peace, at least within a few thousand years after my lifetime.

How will your peace plan lead to peace? And, before you tell me “kick out the Jews” is not your plan… you are clearly saying that Israel has no legitimate right to exist.

What I stated is that the right to the land depends on how far back you want to look. I made no claim about how far back I think we should look. If you want to go back further than two thousand years, yes the land belongs to Israel. Do you want to do that in all of the world? Should we give the US back to native Americans?

The problem is that Israel has been put in a situation where they can reclaim a land they lost two thousand years ago, because they are being backed by countries who want to make sure they can get cheap oil. Somehow the US is less concerned about the rights of minorities in countries that has no oil.

Allowing all descendants of Palestinians to move into Israel would eventually create an Arab majority, and in that instant the Jews would be expelled. This is not acceptable to Israelis and so your position cannot possibly lead to peace.

Agreed. The only thing that can lead to peace is if Israelis give up, or if the Muslims give up, neither of which will ever happen. There will be no peace.

All I am saying is that the Jews WAS expelled, two thousand years ago. It’s the Jews that have re-invaded Israel, not the other way around, unless you think two thousand years is too short time to make claim to a land, which is ironic coming from a two hundred and fifty year old country.

Did the Jews have the right to re-take Israel, after two thousand years?

 

[Velli]

The difference with Israel is Judaism. Israel’s neighbors cannot stand the fact that there is a Jewish country among them.

That sentiment is a two-way street, which is why there will never be peace. As long as religion exists, there will not be peace in the Middle East.

 

[Alameda]

What would happen when the US falls into a deep depression? I’m not saying “if,” but when. One certain weary old man’s reckless decision to attack an ancient civilisation showed the world there are far tougher constraints than nuclear weapons: geography. For the past 41 days the Persian Gulf and the Red Sea entrance to the Indian Ocean have been effectively closed to the US (and NATO, Israel, etc.). The US dollar rests on trust, not on anything tangible. So, once that trust is gone, what will happen to the currency? Would the US be able to sustain Israel then?

One has nothing to do with the other.

I love America but I cannot stand Trump. I support him zero percent.
I love Israel but I cannot stand Netanyahu.

I do not dispute Israel’s right to exist. Further, a “peace plan” which starts with “Israel has no legitimate right to exist” is not a peace plan, it’s a war plan.

 

[Alameda]

That sentiment is a two-way street, which is why there will never be peace. As long as religion exists, there will not be peace in the Middle East.

Again please refer to the map I posted. It is not the belief of Judaism that they must spread their religion to every corner of the Earth. That belief is part of Islam and Christianity. And Christianity today does not believe in military conquest to instill or force Christianity upon others. Islam has not caught up with that way of thinking.

Worldwide, there are fewer than 20 million Jews, and over 1 billion Muslims. This is why Arab leaders have been waging war and attacking Israel for eighty years: Small target.

 

[Velli]

Again please refer to the map I posted. It is not the belief of Judaism that they must spread their religion to every corner of the Earth. That belief is part of Islam and Christianity. And Christianity today does not believe in military conquest to instill or force Christianity upon others. Islam has not caught up with that way of thinking.

I made no claims against this.

Worldwide, there are fewer than 20 million Jews, and over 1 billion Muslims. This is why Arab leaders have been waging war and attacking Israel for eighty years: Small target.

Note your timeline: eighty years. Again with the short outlook. Why 80? Because 80 (76) years ago they were given back a land that they did not own for two thousand years. What you believe in, is to give a country back what was illegally taken from them two thousand years ago.

Again, why does this idea of reinstating two thousand year old rights only apply to Israel? It’s a shame their country was taken from them, and it should not have happened. But it did, and at some point such claims must be considered obsolete, however unreasonable the takeover was. I’m not the arbiter of how long that time is, but if you ask me, it is not more than two thousand years. But is it less than 80? Not so sure.

I like the way the Danish/German border was established post WW1: they divided the region into zones, made a democratic election in each zone for which country you would like to belong to, and drew a line based on that. Then everyone agreed to leave it at that, and either move to their own side, or live as a minority that is left in peace.

Again, as long as religion exists, this approach will not work in the Middle East. Just pointing out the way I think it should work in a perfect world (which sadly is not the world we live in).

 

[Velli]

One has nothing to do with the other.

I love America but I cannot stand Trump. I support him zero percent.
I love Israel but I cannot stand Netanyahu.

I do not dispute Israel’s right to exist. Further, a “peace plan” which starts with “Israel has no legitimate right to exist” is not a peace plan, it’s a war plan.

I did not see that point on the list of Iran’s demands.

It boils down to: Do you think US had the right to attack Iran, killing their leader? That’s actually what I’m arguing about, not whether Israel should exist.

I see it as an act of terrorism. It doesn’t matter if you like the victim, the act was wrong. I hate Trump with a passion, that does not mean I support the shooter who fired at him.

 

[chmania]

I love America but I cannot stand Trump. I support him zero percent.
I love Israel but I cannot stand Netanyahu.

You simply can't escape the fact that, at the moment, Trump IS America and Netanyahu IS Israel — and that's the main problem.

 

[jimmy_john]

You simply can't escape the fact that, at the moment, Trump IS America and Netanyahu IS Israel — and that's the main problem.

That is certainly one way to look at it.

 

[I7guy]

Excellent.
Drag it down further.

We need to be rid of this cancer on our country.

View attachment 2619260

What year again?

 

[jon9091]

What a shocker. 🥴

 

[arian71]

What a shocker. 🥴View attachment 2621158

Is a land primised to them billions of years before the earth was created. Whats more shocking some of comments here trying to defend a criminal state killing children and women , becouse real men fight men . Orange the fat **** the great lider some of the people here voted for him could not defeat real men but hey i got nukes . Cant wait the day fat **** dies and you will see the people full of joy around the world.

 

[Madhatter32]

Is a land primised to them billions of years before the earth was created. Whats more shocking some of comments here trying to defend a criminal state killing children and women , becouse real men fight men . Orange the fat **** the great lider some of the people here voted for him could not defeat real men but hey i got nukes . Cant wait the day fat **** dies and you will see the people full of joy around the world.

35,000 dead in 10 days. In Tehran. By the Supreme Leader of the Islamic Republic. Natural law and morality are dead and Western civilization continues to eat itself.

 

[ThomasJL]

Is a land primised to them billions of years before the earth was created. Whats more shocking some of comments here trying to defend a criminal state killing children and women , becouse real men fight men . Orange the fat **** the great lider some of the people here voted for him could not defeat real men but hey i got nukes . Cant wait the day fat **** dies and you will see the people full of joy around the world.

Generation X members in America are old enough to remember how nobody of the older generations in America would ever admit to supporting Nazi Germany before America entered the war. Many of those older generations are a bunch of liars who lie that they opposed Nazi Germany all along. Therefore, in a few decades from now, be very skeptical when people say they never supported Nazi Israel committing genocide in Gaza. Be very skeptical when they say they always opposed America arming and funding Nazi Israel.

 

[ThomasJL]

The report said the Telegram post listed 18 companies that Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps views as "legitimate targets," including Apple, Microsoft, Google, Meta, IBM, Cisco, Tesla, Boeing, Nvidia, J.P. Morgan, and others.

If any of those 18 companies, including Apple, are providing technology to the Israeli military or the American military, then they are indeed legitimate targets according to international law.

I don’t know whether or not Apple provides technology to any military. But I do know that Benjamin Netanyahu has been a war criminal for decades, and that after being a war criminal for decades, Tim Cook still met with him in 2014 at Apple’s world headquarters in Cupertino. See the OP in the thread linked below for proof:

Video of Tim Cook's Lunch Meeting with Israeli Prime Minister Gives Inside Look at Apple HQ

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu met with Apple CEO Tim Cook for lunch yesterday at Apple HQ in Cupertino, California. Netanyahu is traveling through the United States for the American Israel Public Affairs Committee and also met the founders of popular messaging app WhatsApp as well...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[jon9091]

How much lower can we go?

 

[steve62388]

How much lower can we go?

View attachment 2621218

If you're going to post things like this (your second) then link the article.

 

[chmania]

A very interesting story here. After reading it, read the comments. One would wonder, who actually leaked that story to the authors. And, also wonder whether one should sympathise Israel at all.

 

[jon9091]

If you're going to post things like this (your second) then link the article.

Pentagon Threatened the Pope After He Criticized Trump

It was so bad that Pope Leo changed his plans to travel to the U.S.

www.yahoo.com

 

[chmania]

Any action—good or bad—taken by the US president is done in the name of the American people, so they also share responsibility for those actions. But in practical terms, Americans have little real power except for about 30 seconds at the ballot box.

In countries, where there are more than two parties, and with the parliament of representative amounts of seats, where the parties must make coalitions to run the government, the people appear to have much more democratic power -- they can make their party, however small it is, to leave the coalition, or threaten to leave to get things done.

 

[Alameda]

No, I have stated clearly that this is an unsolvable problem. I have no peace plan, I have accepted that this area will not have peace, at least within a few thousand years after my lifetime.

What I stated is that the right to the land depends on how far back you want to look. I made no claim about how far back I think we should look. If you want to go back further than two thousand years, yes the land belongs to Israel. Do you want to do that in all of the world? Should we give the US back to native Americans?

The problem is that Israel has been put in a situation where they can reclaim a land they lost two thousand years ago, because they are being backed by countries who want to make sure they can get cheap oil. Somehow the US is less concerned about the rights of minorities in countries that has no oil.

Agreed. The only thing that can lead to peace is if Israelis give up, or if the Muslims give up, neither of which will ever happen. There will be no peace.

All I am saying is that the Jews WAS expelled, two thousand years ago. It’s the Jews that have re-invaded Israel, not the other way around, unless you think two thousand years is too short time to make claim to a land, which is ironic coming from a two hundred and fifty year old country.

Did the Jews have the right to re-take Israel, after two thousand years?

There is no such thing as “the right of the land.” You just made that up.

Do you make up your own speed limit and decide which side of the road you want to drive on and decide how much alcohol you’re allowed to drink before you drive?

The nation of Israel was created legally and lawfully.

Why is this problem unsolvable? Simple: It is because extremist Muslims refuse to accept the existence of Jews in the Middle East.

If the Kurds, or the Zoroastrians, or the Babylonians established their own nation; the extremist Muslims (aka, “the colonizers”) would do exactly the same thing. How do we know this? Cause they have oppressed all of these groups. What’s more, all three of those groups have been indigenous to the region for over 1,000 years. Yet, no country. Britain promised the Kurds an independent state just as they promised the Jews an independent state. Fortunately for the Jews, they agitated until they got one. The Kurds just trusted that the British would honor their promises, and they paid a heavy price for doing so.

But history is useless in this discussion. The only thing that matters is where we are today. We have Palestinian Arabs and we have Israeli Jews. And they are not going to be able to be integrated into a single country because the Palestinians clearly do not want that and the Israelis, after 80 years of war, are certain that they would be destroyed if they did that. So two states is the only way.

 

[chmania]

But history is useless in this discussion. The only thing that matters is where we are today. We have Palestinian Arabs and we have Israeli Jews. And they are not going to be able to be integrated into a single country because the Palestinians clearly do not want that and the Israelis, after 80 years of war, are certain that they would be destroyed if they did that. So two states is the only way.

History matters.
Europeans dislike Israel, yet they often turn a blind eye to Israeli atrocities, offering only muted official disapproval. Europe does not want Israel to collapse, even if that entails many Palestinian lives lost — it will simply look the other way. Imagine Israel failing and becoming unsustainable: where would the Jewish population go? Back to Europe. Europeans fear that above all; they do not want another Hitler to emerge.