One thing I agree with her on. Never thought I would say that.
I guess Ireland values having their citizens working.
This fight should be interesting to see if the EU can withstand there pushback.
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Ireland Agrees to Appeal European Commission's Apple Tax Ruling
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I guess Ireland values having their citizens working.
This fight should be interesting to see if the EU can withstand there pushback.
This was nothing to do with competition law. This is about Tax and who has the right to collect it. Nothing at all to do with competition. Mrs Vestager has over stepped her mark.
Don't get me wrong here - I also think multinationals are not paying enough taxes - but this ham-fisted attempt by Mrs Vestager and the Competition Commission to say it was Illegal state-aid is a complete joke. It is almost embarrassing to be part of the EU with such a skewed and warped interpretation of Competition Rules/law.
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I disagree. It is a tactic to subjugate the Irish into changing the 12.5% tax rate. It is very obvious.
You don't think that State aid gives any unfair advantage to a corporation OR to the state itself when competing in a market where others apply the rule? Or if one corporation pays 12.5% and the second none? Or how can a company based in Finland compete with an American corporation, that doesn't pay the corporation taxes? The out come is, that either a) every state will low their taxes to zero or b) one country is filled with paper corporations where they route their money to tax heavens.
Anyway, this is the string EC is pulling, the State Aid. And that is under European Union Competition law.
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It is not obvious, if companies move to other countries, they can still suck profits from all over Europe, which is the real problem.
In court Apple has no chance to prove anything useful, and they know it very well (and now it is just about how much they may lose if they fight vs how much they have to pay now). And there are few reasons for this:
- The amount given is based on the minimal data that the EU commission has managed to get access to as Apple is extremely opaque on this.
In court... Apple will have to open its accounting books and show a big reality of numbers that the whole world will get disgusted at. Interesting enough, Apple hasn't complained at all about the quantity the commission has pictured...
- Apple has been doing business for long in Ireland but the whole point of the commission (and the tax laws) is that you cannot make so much money in one single place (Ireland) and barely have employees. The existing laws in each country of the EU and the EU laws say that you should pay taxes where you generate your revenue. And yes... Ireland has better numbers and some extra laws that Apple (and other companies) are using in collaboration with the Irish government to actually pay almost 0% as the EU commission pointed out.
In court Apple will have to show that it would have an infrastructure big enough to support putting all that money thru Ireland, and this is rather complex. The EU commission hasn't spent more than 2 years investigating Apple and issuing a 130 pages report just to say that Apple owes a lot of money to many EU countries. - The EU commission cannot force any country to change its tax laws because we have freedom for that in the EU. However, there are some other laws in the EU that although they are not fiscal, they are quite tight to the tax scheme and Ireland and other EU and EEA members are abiding to which makes them liable to the EU commission (gladly for everyone). The EU commission has been complaining for years on these schemes played by companies and tried the EU parliament to change and harmonize the tax scheme in the EU and slowly we are getting there but not yet.
- The EU commission will see all this money (and likely more) because it is not the EU nor the EU commission benefiting from this money. It is all EU members where Apple has made business that will see a cut of the money and they all want taxes to fund those things like free and high quality healthcare for everyone regardless of income or social status, good roads, pensions systems, proper and almost free education, etc...
- And last, but not least, it is Apple's fault playing this game. Apple is putting all its machinery for environmental crap after it got a lot of criticism. The same applied for the people manufacturing its expensive stuff... and this matter of taxes will be the same.
No one that has a reasonable amount of neurons can agree this it is fair to pay almost 0% taxes when you make billions.
This is an allegation from Mrs Vestager - a technocrat working in the Competition Commission. The allegation of Irish state-aid is a warped interpretation of the Competition Commission rules. Have a read of what her predecessor Mrs Neelie Kroes is saying about Mrs Vestager's ruling. Mrs Vestager (former Danish Prime minister) is loosing support fast around her. As I said already - it is almost embarrassing the way it is playing out..
Apple should change its motto to:
Designed in California
Sheltered in Ireland
You also forgot
Made in China
But I thought it was state-aid? You see- thats where you loose the argument. The problem is the system not Ireland. The EU and global tax system is full of these legal loop-holes. This is not considered state-aid then is it?
"Their job" isn't to try to define economic policy of a nation by calling it state aid frivolously. Either the EU establishes a central economic plan, or they let the members run things independently. None of this "now that we're in the hole we'll change things 30 years after the fact" nonsense. Apple was given this deal by the elected officials in Ireland. Now the EU wants them to pay interest because Brussels disagrees decades later as if it's Apple's fault that the EU was more than happy to do nothing before they were strapped for money.
No, the EU wants to make sure that Apple pays the taxes it owes in the EU, even if this means only to Ireland at their tax rate.
However, it has also encouraged tax agencies in each country to follow up, so they might claim against Ireland.
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I they took 30 years, it means they can claim as it is only for 13. It is not a free for all.
They have 1000 cases under investigation. The majority European companies.
It'll take few years before we're going to hear if her claims hold a water.
And no, she's not losing supports, but money has a lot of power, and she'll get the most evil enemies there are, who own media and (many) governments. However, what I've read from some newspapers (non-French), many EU members or their media or university professors are on EC side.
In God [money] we trust gang is going to be furious. I'm sure NSA has wired already everyone involved this case.
It seems they EU got some info from Australia, too.
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Criticism rejected by the EU.
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She works for Uber now.
Criticism rejected by the EU.
In court Apple has no chance to prove anything useful, and they know it very well (and now it is just about how much they may lose if they fight vs how much they have to pay now). And there are few reasons for this:
I just can't wait for the day that Apple loses the ruling in the court...
- The amount given is based on the minimal data that the EU commission has managed to get access to as Apple is extremely opaque on this.
In court... Apple will have to open its accounting books and show a big reality of numbers that the whole world will get disgusted at. Interesting enough, Apple hasn't complained at all about the quantity the commission has pictured...- Apple has been doing business for long in Ireland but the whole point of the commission (and the tax laws) is that you cannot make so much money in one single place (Ireland) and barely have employees. The existing laws in each country of the EU and the EU laws say that you should pay taxes where you generate your revenue. And yes... Ireland has better numbers and some extra laws that Apple (and other companies) are using in collaboration with the Irish government to actually pay almost 0% as the EU commission pointed out.
In court Apple will have to show that it would have an infrastructure big enough to support putting all that money thru Ireland, and this is rather complex. The EU commission hasn't spent more than 2 years investigating Apple and issuing a 130 pages report just to say that Apple owes a lot of money to many EU countries.- The EU commission cannot force any country to change its tax laws because we have freedom for that in the EU. However, there are some other laws in the EU that although they are not fiscal, they are quite tight to the tax scheme and Ireland and other EU and EEA members are abiding to which makes them liable to the EU commission (gladly for everyone). The EU commission has been complaining for years on these schemes played by companies and tried the EU parliament to change and harmonize the tax scheme in the EU and slowly we are getting there but not yet.
- The EU commission will see all this money (and likely more) because it is not the EU nor the EU commission benefiting from this money. It is all EU members where Apple has made business that will see a cut of the money and they all want taxes to fund those things like free and high quality healthcare for everyone regardless of income or social status, good roads, pensions systems, proper and almost free education, etc...
- And last, but not least, it is Apple's fault playing this game. Apple is putting all its machinery for environmental crap after it got a lot of criticism. The same applied for the people manufacturing its expensive stuff... and this matter of taxes will be the same.
No one that has a reasonable amount of neurons can agree this it is fair to pay almost 0% taxes when you make billions.
I know right! I won't be surprised if Apples share price dips a bit now, because almost everyone, who gets this ruling, knows Apple and Ireland don't stand a chance, taking on the EU competition commission is an increadibly brace and stupid thing to do.
Can't wait for the trial but I bet Apple and Ireland will wrap it up in legal proceedings for years before it does get to court.
Nobody likes taxes. It’s easily possible for taxes to be too high. That’s why Burger King left the U.S.. It’s also why General Electric left Connecticut. Companies don’t like being overtaxed. If you overtax a company, they’ll just move.Apple should change its motto to:
Designed in California
Sheltered in Ireland
Yeah nice to see that you'd rather crawl up Apple's butt, but thank god Europe isn't that stupid.
"The EU got greedy" without even mentioning Apple's greed. Made my day.
Damn right, taxes should mostly be paid by the small man, for the small man!
Leave the poor companies alone, they WORKED for these profits after all and built all the roads they use to transfer goods, taught all men and women in THEIR schools and paid for ALL of their worker's health insurance after all!
Oh wait.
Glassed Silver:ios
Let's hope she wins the election first. A Nationalistic Germany will be a bigger issue for Brussels than Apple.
Maybe you think differently after reading this.
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ex-eu-commissioner-criticises-apple-tax-ruling-1.2776179