I understand that. I was indicating that Federighi wanted to clarify the misconception to the media what happened during the keynote. Actually, Face ID did exactly what it should have when it failed to read Federighi’s face, and reverted to the passcode.
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iPhone X Is a 6.1" LCD iPhone X even possible?
- Thread starter deuxani
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I understand that. I was indicating that Federighi wanted to clarify the misconception to the media what happened during the keynote. Actually, Face ID did exactly what it should have when it failed to read Federighi’s face, and reverted to the passcode.
Let’s just assume for a second that the rumor is true and this phone doesn’t come with 3D Touch, what would be the reason(s) to exclude it?
Direct Component Cost - I don’t think so because phones since the 6s are sold today for less than the rumored price of this phone. The 6S was around this price when new.
Packaging - it did add noticeable heft to the 6s over the 6, or maybe it won’t work with a borderless LCD screen. Maybe they want a bigger battery. Other ideas?
Indirect Component Cost - this is my TouchID theory, maybe they figured it out when 3D Touch is removed and can use it on this “budget” model in place of the more expensive FaceID with all its cameras, sensors, etc. Again, total speculation on my part, but it makes sense to me and would differentiate this phone further from the flagship models.
Any other possible reasons why they’d actually remove 3D Touch or is this rumor just crap?
Direct Component Cost - I don’t think so because phones since the 6s are sold today for less than the rumored price of this phone. The 6S was around this price when new.
Packaging - it did add noticeable heft to the 6s over the 6, or maybe it won’t work with a borderless LCD screen. Maybe they want a bigger battery. Other ideas?
Indirect Component Cost - this is my TouchID theory, maybe they figured it out when 3D Touch is removed and can use it on this “budget” model in place of the more expensive FaceID with all its cameras, sensors, etc. Again, total speculation on my part, but it makes sense to me and would differentiate this phone further from the flagship models.
Any other possible reasons why they’d actually remove 3D Touch or is this rumor just crap?
Project Risk Management and Cost
3D Touch is an unnecessary feature for a mainstream iPhone. There's an assumption that Apple can drag and drop 3D Touch technology from existing LTPS LCD to JDI's Full Active (Flex) panels. I doubt that's the case. JDI's panel is brand new and it uses a flexible substrate, just like OLED. The 6.1" iPhone is expected to be a high-volume, mainstream product and Apple is minimizing risk to ensure it can ship on time. Shipping in November is unacceptable.
Evidence:
"Development schedule of new 6.1" LCD iPhone slightly behind 6.5" and 5.8" OLED models"
- Why is 6.1" behind schedule? Perhaps it's a reaction to the poor sales of iPhone X? Regardless of the reason, Apple's mainstream product cannot risk being late. The 5.8" and 6.5" can ship in November for $999 and $1,149 but Apple cannot risk a late launch for a $799 product.
"Apple may switch to a film sensor from the current FPCB sensor in order to provide better 3D Touch user experience"
- This is evidence Apple cannot drag and drop 3D Touch technology onto a new product. In January 2017, Ming-Chi Kuo predicted iPhone X would come with a new 3D Touch film sensor with a metal plate behind the sensor. He was 100% accurate. Production was estimated to cost 10-20% more. The JDI Full Active Flex is also a flexible panel. As a result, 3D Touch needs to be redeveloped for the JDI panel. This takes time.
Foxconn exec: 60% OLED yield rates
- Why would a Foxconn exec complain about low yield rates if Samsung is the one manufacturing the OLED panels? Answer: Foxconn laminates and assembles the display module including the 3D Touch layer. Asking Foxconn to add another layer of assembly for the 6.1" increases production risk.
The 6.1" iPhone is a product targeted at owners of iPhone 6 and 6 Plus. It was the last supercycle where Apple introduced a new form factor. This group of owners has been reluctant to upgrade to iPhone 7, 8, and X due to cost and perceived lack of new features. iPhone 6 owners will not be missing 3D Touch, but they will appreciate the larger display and Face ID.
3D Touch is nice to have, but most consumers simply do not have 3D Touch on their requirement checklist.
JPack, thanks for the thorough and well-supported response. I figured the new type of LCD panel might play a part in them deciding to ditch 3D Touch, but you make some good points about development schedules and target audience for this phone. As a 6s owner I wouldn’t miss 3D Touch either, so I agree with your assessment of the feature.
Overall, I think there are many technical, cost, and project management arguments against 3D Touch. On the other hand, the arguments for 3D Touch are largely marketing and UI based. Apple hasn't promoted 3D Touch in a while and iPad Pro proves 3D Touch is not absolutely necessary.
Personally, I won't miss 3D Touch too much. It is useful, but long-press can be substituted in many cases.
I believe this could be a factor as well. The 6.1" iPhone display area is roughly 20% larger than iPhone 8 Plus. Yet the battery capacity is less than 10% larger. It also needs to power the TrueDepth camera. Unlike iPhone X, Apple is probably unwilling to use expensive production techniques like a stacked logic board and L-shaped battery to gain capacity.
We know 3D Touch adds thickness to the device. This is measured to be about 0.5mm when using a caliper to measure the thickness of iPhone 6 vs 6s displays.
0.5mm may not seem much, but the iPhone 6 Plus battery is only 3mm thick with 11 anode/cathode layer pairs. Below is an actual photo for the 6 Plus battery. This thickness translates into a loss of volume for the battery.
This is exactly why 3D Touch is not a pivotal feature for many:
1.) Apple doesn’t even market 3D Touch whatsoever and they have no turtorials for those who own the iPhone 6s and above how to even use 3D Touch. There is Zero marketing behind it at all, which if the consumer doesn’t know about the feature, how are they supposed to utilize it?
Another example would be live photos, very little marketing and many iPhone consumers do not realize that feature exists or even how to specifically take advantage of its functionality.
2.) Cost-cutting. It’s that simple. If Apple doesn’t include that feature no matter what other manufacturing considerations there might be, it’s still a component saved over the course of millions of iPhones that will be produced without incorporating 3D Touch for the 6.1 LCD iPhone.
Well apple would have had interest in discussing FaceID after the perceived failure on stage. And there would be no reason for Federighi to discuss TouchID after the fact Apple decided on FaceID. My point was that doing the latter would make it appear that FaceID was not always the first choice.
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I agree. I have always believed that 3D touch was a gimmick. We already had this feature in the long press.
1) Well said, and given the added weight and thickness it adds to the device, I’d actually prefer it not be included on my next phone.
2) Very true, it adds up when you’re talking millions of units. Sounds like final assembly will be easier also, so throw some labor savings in there as well.
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Good stuff again, JPack. All this info makes the rumored decision to exclude 3D Touch seem logical, or I certainly understand it better now. Thanks.Overall, I think there are many technical, cost, and project management arguments against 3D Touch. On the other hand, the arguments for 3D Touch are largely marketing and UI based. Apple hasn't promoted 3D Touch in a while and iPad Pro proves 3D Touch is not absolutely necessary.
Personally, I won't miss 3D Touch too much. It is useful, but long-press can be substituted in many cases.
I believe this could be a factor as well. The 6.1" iPhone display area is roughly 20% larger than iPhone 8 Plus. Yet the battery capacity is less than 10% larger. It also needs to power the TrueDepth camera. Unlike iPhone X, Apple is probably unwilling to use expensive production techniques like a stacked logic board and L-shaped battery to gain capacity.
View attachment 757122
We know 3D Touch adds thickness to the device. This is measured to be about 0.5mm when using a caliper to measure the thickness of iPhone 6 vs 6s displays.
0.5mm may not seem much, but the iPhone 6 Plus battery is only 3mm thick with 11 anode/cathode layer pairs. Below is an actual photo for the 6 Plus battery. This thickness translates into a loss of volume for the battery.
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Do you have a source for your claim ‘most consumers’ don’t use 3DTouch? Everybody I know with it on an iPhone uses it if only for moving the cursor while typing. It’s handy just for that and I’m confident enough mainstream users like myself use it.
How do you move the cursor around a typed message with long press? Does it even let you do that?
Long press does nothing on my iPad. Touching the keyboard with 2 fingers turns the keyboard into a trackpad like 3D Touch on an iPhone
I have an iPad Pro on latest iOS. Long press works with a few apps like files and procreate, pages, keynote, numbers and works in control center. But you are correct it is a 2 finger press to move the curser.
Data taken last year shows the majority of iPhones on the market don't have 3D Touch.
There are many migrating Android users who don't know about 3D Touch and don't use it. If look at apps, many major apps like Chrome and YouTube don't support 3D Touch in a meaningful way.
Long touch is available on all devices while 3D Touch is only available on half of iPhones, not to mention iPad.
If most of the phones on the market do not have 3D touch, then these same folks have a 6 or less, or an SE or iPad or iPod Touch. I do not believe we can use this data to infer that 3D touch is not a wanted feature as many folks have pointed out correctly that apple does not advertise this feature, so many of these same people are probably not aware that 3D touch exists, while many do and may not care.
I use 3D touch extensively and I would surely miss it if it was removed.
It Depends which iPhone someone is using, but regardless, it doesn’t matter if it’s the iPhone X or the iPhone 6s when 3D Touch first debuted, it’s simply a feature Thats not utilized enough for the basic consumer to even know how to invoke actions with third-party applications or even the stock applications with iOS.
It Really is a convenient feature that I use frequently and I like the haptic feedback when using it, mainly because it’s a shortcut without having to navigate through the whole application or action, but Apple simply does not invest in marketing that feature enough where I question its future at times.
It Really is a convenient feature that I use frequently and I like the haptic feedback when using it, mainly because it’s a shortcut without having to navigate through the whole application or action, but Apple simply does not invest in marketing that feature enough where I question its future at times.
Long press is also an absolute pain in the backside when trying to move the cursor in comparison to 3DTouch. The convenience of force pressing the keyboard and moving the cursor to a certain point in the text cannot be replicated by long press in an easy manner. You have to place your finger within the text with long press to get the magnified cursor and it doesn’t work anywhere near as well.
I couldn’t go back to an iPhone without 3DTouch and I know those that have it find it very useful and fundamental now.
I couldn’t go back to an iPhone without 3DTouch and I know those that have it find it very useful and fundamental now.
Your post is another good example of 3D Touch. The cursor movement is highly convenient and I’m willing to believe 90% of iPhone owners with a 6S or Above have no idea how to use the cursor, which they likely believe they just touch the display to move the cursor with the magnifier.
I’d have to agree with this. Part of the problem is 3D Touch is not intuitive. A touchscreen is intended to have zero actuation force. Consumers don’t expect to force touch something that isn’t a physical push button.
No point having it then if 90% of people don’t use it. It’s a waste of R&D and continued manufacture. That’s how I would see it from a business perspective despite knowing lots of people who use it.
On the iPad, simply laying 2 fingers on the keyboard allows you to move the cursor anywhere you wish.
I had no idea you could do that thanks. It doesn’t feel quite a responsive due to the haptic feedback missing but does much the same thing.
I had no idea you could do that thanks. It doesn’t feel quite a responsive due to the haptic feedback missing but does much the same thing.
You are most welcome
I agree, it does not feel quite as satisfying without the haptic feedback.
After reading through this thread I wanted to respond to some of the comments made about OLED and 3D Touch.
I don't know why LCD is getting so much hate here. It's a technology perfected over many years, and while black levels aren't as good as OLED, their color accuracy is still great and they don't suffer from "burn-in". The biggest reason for me to want LCD though is that I can't use OLED equipped devices because they give me eye-strain, headaches and horrible migraines. I wrote an article on my website about some of the pros and cons of OLED vs LCD recently, but I'm not sure what the forum rules say about posting a link here.
Let's face it, most people don't care about OLED vs LCD. As long as it works and doesn't look bad most people will be happy either way. Those of us who are very senstive to PWM though can only use LCD devices. This eliminates a lot of the devices recently introduced unfortunately, so I'm very happy that Apple is rumored to release an iPhone with LCD in the X form factor.
This will be my second attemp at switching to an iPhone from Android is the LCD device becomes a reality, and this time I think I'll like it. I tried with the 5S back in 2013 but iOS was more locked in back then, and the 5S was just to small for my big thumbs to type on.
I use app shortcuts on Android all the time (touch and hold on an app icon to get quick actions) and I really want 3D touch so I can do the same on the iPhone. I would be fine with touch and hold instead of true 3D touch as long as the functofunctiois the same and there is feedback from the taptic engine where appropriate, but for someone used to 3D touch I think touch and hold would be a huge downgrade.
As far as TouchID goes, I really want it. I'm used to fingerprint authentication and like that I can have my phone unlocked and ready before it reaches my face. I'm very sure this won't happen though, and I have to get used to FaceID.
I just need an LCD iPhone with the X form factor to be able to switch, so I hope these rumors are accurate.
I don't know why LCD is getting so much hate here. It's a technology perfected over many years, and while black levels aren't as good as OLED, their color accuracy is still great and they don't suffer from "burn-in". The biggest reason for me to want LCD though is that I can't use OLED equipped devices because they give me eye-strain, headaches and horrible migraines. I wrote an article on my website about some of the pros and cons of OLED vs LCD recently, but I'm not sure what the forum rules say about posting a link here.
Let's face it, most people don't care about OLED vs LCD. As long as it works and doesn't look bad most people will be happy either way. Those of us who are very senstive to PWM though can only use LCD devices. This eliminates a lot of the devices recently introduced unfortunately, so I'm very happy that Apple is rumored to release an iPhone with LCD in the X form factor.
This will be my second attemp at switching to an iPhone from Android is the LCD device becomes a reality, and this time I think I'll like it. I tried with the 5S back in 2013 but iOS was more locked in back then, and the 5S was just to small for my big thumbs to type on.
I use app shortcuts on Android all the time (touch and hold on an app icon to get quick actions) and I really want 3D touch so I can do the same on the iPhone. I would be fine with touch and hold instead of true 3D touch as long as the functofunctiois the same and there is feedback from the taptic engine where appropriate, but for someone used to 3D touch I think touch and hold would be a huge downgrade.
As far as TouchID goes, I really want it. I'm used to fingerprint authentication and like that I can have my phone unlocked and ready before it reaches my face. I'm very sure this won't happen though, and I have to get used to FaceID.
I just need an LCD iPhone with the X form factor to be able to switch, so I hope these rumors are accurate.