The severe lack of expandability is the iMac's Achilles' heel and I would gladly use all 8-cores if Apple released versions of all their ProApps that actually took advantage of all the RAM and cores the newer Mac Pros can be loaded with.
Lethal
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Is Apple still serious about the professional market?
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Lethal
Please remember: Besides Rendering Power the Mac Pro is also uses by a lot of people for gaming. And the Mac Pro ist the only Mac with an capable graphics card.
And no... in my opinion the 4850 in a 27" imac is too slow for the native resolution of an imac display.
So i will prefer (everytime) a Mac Pro over a iMac if i can spend so much money haha.
And no... in my opinion the 4850 in a 27" imac is too slow for the native resolution of an imac display.
So i will prefer (everytime) a Mac Pro over a iMac if i can spend so much money haha.
I agree with everything you have been saying. In fact I have made posts on this very subject for the past few years. The good news is that more people are taking a second look at the direction Apple is going. It is sad Apple can not push multiple fronts at the same time in a more aggressive and innovating way. But that is the nature of the current CEO, hands on, non-delegating, maniacal.
The mobile market is catching up fast to the iPhone, the iPad is too little too late. On the computing side, several PC companies are innovating far more than Apple has and at very competitive prices. Apple has failed to innovate in the very area it has been the leader for a long time. Mac hardware and software have stagnated due to neglect. Ironically, the marketing push of the iPod/iPhone/Apple stores were said to create a "halo" effect towards the Macintosh. Somehow the message was lost in the process as more and more resources have been allocated towards new "gadgets", some successful, some not.
As Apple wakes up from the party of its own success, it may suddenly realize, at great expense, the momentum is gone as consumer (short span) attention turns to real innovation and "value".
You can get similar discounts from Dell. You are right in your observation that price wise it is only really the single socket system that shows big price disparity between Apple and other companies. Dell, HP, etc. haven't changed their pricing. Apple used to be well below their price at launch, now they are similar but as their single socket system competes with the dual socket and the iMac they priced it between them, other companies price it against the equal consumer hardware.
That is just not fair! I mean, that clip was one of the worst things about Windows. (Some funny ones might say that it was one of the best ones...)
Hey, New here.
There is another thing to consider and that's what's happening in the economy right now. MBP's are a much better value right now than they were when I bought mine in 07 (besides the disappointment of them dropping the 34 slot in most models). This leads me to think about upgrading my LT & giving this one to my daughter for college, rather than just getting an older or used MB for her.
I'm a HD filmmaker and all of
other offerings are not an option. Right now I'm still struggling with my 2x2Ghz G5 and am in desperate need for an upgrade. My G5 still works great and I can certain make due with it and get more creative with my workflow to accommodate the speed issue. I personally know several people in this boat including a pro editing facility in Nashville that only 2 of their towers are intel and the manager there has tried to encourage me to "get the most out of my machine and save the $". If I know this many user deciding to deal with their current comps, the total number must be pretty high.
There is a prevalent perception that the MP is not a very "value" purchase and I believe that recognizes this. If some people gravitate towards windows, it would make sense that their LT would follow suit, then the rest of the families comps and recommendations to friends, etc.
So I think that the pro market is very much alive and if doesn't give a better value at this next upgrade, they will be heading in that direction by the end of the year. There is still a lot of global economic restructuring that will be taking place this year.
There is another thing to consider and that's what's happening in the economy right now. MBP's are a much better value right now than they were when I bought mine in 07 (besides the disappointment of them dropping the 34 slot in most models). This leads me to think about upgrading my LT & giving this one to my daughter for college, rather than just getting an older or used MB for her.
I'm a HD filmmaker and all of
other offerings are not an option. Right now I'm still struggling with my 2x2Ghz G5 and am in desperate need for an upgrade. My G5 still works great and I can certain make due with it and get more creative with my workflow to accommodate the speed issue. I personally know several people in this boat including a pro editing facility in Nashville that only 2 of their towers are intel and the manager there has tried to encourage me to "get the most out of my machine and save the $". If I know this many user deciding to deal with their current comps, the total number must be pretty high.There is a prevalent perception that the MP is not a very "value" purchase and I believe that
recognizes this. If some people gravitate towards windows, it would make sense that their LT would follow suit, then the rest of the families comps and recommendations to friends, etc.So I think that the pro market is very much alive and if
doesn't give a better value at this next upgrade, they will be heading in that direction by the end of the year. There is still a lot of global economic restructuring that will be taking place this year.
I think they are sticking with the pro market - Apple does take its time about things and, looking at existing PC laptops, it's no wonder Apple has yet to replace its high end MBP line. (if anything, for $2500, 8GB of RAM would be nice, but the other high-end specs do just enough to push the 17" model on their own...)
Why wouldn't I buy the high end iMac over a Mac Pro?
1. It's slower.
2. Less RAM slots
3. No HDD expansion (I have 5 internal HDDs, and wish I had space for more)
4. No PCIe slots (I use all four of them)
5. 16:9 displays are stupid.
… and yes, I use all 8 cores.
I Agree! So far I have had no straight answers to why Apple got rid of the express card slot, and the firewire 400 port. Without them you are stuck with crashing devices. My G4 Powerbook ran great with 2 ports one for hard drives the other for my M Audio 410 firewire400 soundcard. Looks like I need to spend a 4 Grand on a Mac Pro. Why is mac putting so much power in their machines if you can not put them to good use?
You're aware that you can get a cheap adapter to go from FW800->FW400, right? And that Fire Wire devices are designed to be daisy chained?
Oh, and the ExpressCard slot is still there on the 17" MBP.
Which is great, if you want to carry around a Cessna wing. Not so great for people who want a portable
Which is great, if you want to carry around a Cessna wing. Not so great for people who want a portable
A Cessna wing.
Yeah, what happened to the ExpressCard slot on the normal MBPs?Daisy chaining is not recommended for video capture. And counting on only one port for all that work is not an option IMO. It's one thing to get rid of one of the firewire ports, another to get rid of the express slot also. Guess I'm just suppose to upgrade my cameras to SD media, or get a HD with an SD connector. Wait a minute, oh yeah, no such thing exists.
Having to buy a 17 just for express card capabilities is obscene.
Which is great, if you want to carry around a Cessna wing. Not so great for people who want a portable
I've never found carrying around a 17" laptop to be all that odious. I carried around much heavier things in college on a daily basis
Besides, this guy is talking about carrying around HDs and FW audio interfaces. His "easily portable" profile is already shot.Wait, you want to do video capture on a 15" monitor? Really?
Don't get me wrong, I'm a slashdot and Ars veteran, I'm used to the "I'm a technology enthusiast and demand that my chosen vendor do everything to please me in terms of feature sets" mindset (and have been victim of it in the past), but let's be clear. You're angry because you want to do pro-am/pro video capture *specifically* on a 15" laptop, not because Apple doesn't provide a machine that meets your specifications.
I've never found carrying around a 17" laptop to be all that odious. I carried around much heavier things in college on a daily basis
Wait, you want to do video capture on a 15" monitor? Really?
Don't get me wrong, I'm a slashdot and Ars veteran, I'm used to the "I'm a technology enthusiast and demand that my chosen vendor do everything to please me in terms of feature sets" mindset (and have been victim of it in the past), but let's be clear. You're angry because you want to do pro-am/pro video capture *specifically* on a 15" laptop, not because Apple doesn't provide a machine that meets your specifications.
Why are you putting down someone that had a legitimate reason for the express slot that was on the previous MacBook Pro 15"? Now the same person has to spend more money and lug around a bigger machine when all he wanted was the portability of a 15" laptop that previously had the express slot.
A laptop by function is meant to be portable. Apple touts their MBP laptops as "Pro" - meaning professional. Then they take away what was a professional feature much needed by a certain group of professionals. I'd say that is not catering to professionals. They should drop the "Pro" designation from the 15" if they take features like this away and just upsell it as a Macbook uber.
I think aplogizing, or rationalizing what Apple does these circumstances will only make them think that this kind of thing is an acceptable thing to do for their "Pro" latops. If everyone keeps saying this is okay - that is what you will be left with in the future; paying more than you need for something that you do not wish to carry around.
Mike
Even if the Mac has multiple FW ports they all share the same bus internally (this is true of all Macs not just the laptops). This is one of the reasons the ExpressCard slot was so nice because you could hang a fast eSATA RAID off of it while leaving whole FW800 bus clear for video capture.
Considering the 15" was a great laptop for mobile editing until Apple arbitrarily removed the ExpressCard slot it's understandable that people are pissed off (especially w/all the other crap Apple has done, or hasn't done, in the past year or so). On a number of professional video forums when people are inquiring about getting a laptop for use w/FCP the consensus is typically to stay away from the current 15" and try to get a used 15" that has the ExpressCard slot. It's not like anyone here is expecting Apple to make an 'uber-laptop' that has an ExpressCard slot, FW, USB, eSATA, HDMI, and a 5-in-1 card reader (like many cheap windows laptops do). Many people are just asking Apple to undo the 'damage' they did to the functionality of the 15" MBP and put the ExpressCard slot back.
Lethal
Name me the group of video capture professionals that require 15" laptops.
Listen, I get it, people are annoyed that Apple doesn't supply all the connectors and all the features that they used to on every model of every line. But let's not get ridiculous and say that they don't offer machines appropriate for certain uses.
And, again, if you're carrying around audio interfaces (and, most likely, microphones, etc) and portable HDDs (who captures directly to a FW drive? capture to the fastest media on the machine and then store on the media that has a FW interface -- too much video for the drive on the laptop? then that's a whole different issue, to the point where a laptop probably isn't the right form factor for that task), a 17" laptop is probably the most easily portable part of the setup.
Lastly, I'm hardly an Apple apologist, but I am a stickler for facts, not rhetoric and derp.
I've never found carrying around a 17" laptop to be all that odious. I carried around much heavier things in college on a daily basis
I'm not talking about weight. Anyone who whines about laptop weight needs to buy a pair of nuts on ebay and hit the gym. I'm talking about the actual size of the laptop, the 17" machines are -huge-.
If you were more familiar even w/the basics of the subject matter you are talking about you wouldn't be asking these types questions or making these types of statements.
Who captures video straight to a FW HDD? People who've been though Video 101.
If the internal HDD of a laptop isn't big enough that means the laptop is probably not the right tool for the job? Really? So lugging a complete Mac Pro system behind you in a cart (while always keeping any eye out for wall power) as you cover a big convention like NAB or Comic-Con is better than carrying a laptop and a portable HDD?
Ever tried to setup a 17" MBP and portable HDD on the tray table of a plane? Kinda sucky unless you are in First Class.
Lethal
Wait, you want to do video capture on a 17" monitor? Really?...
Been doing it for years.
Capture to tape archive & HD so I can start editing right away. When I get home, edit off the HD (from yes, the editing that I've struggled with on the 15 in) & I'm done in record time for a job that needs a fast turn around. IMO a 17" screen is not much better than a 15" as far as editing, especially compared with the 24" & 19" that I do my serious work on.
Well lets see... My last project has aired on PBS nationally for the last 3 years and KET has partnered with me for my next 1-2 projects.
So yes let's stick to facts, A professional is defined by his work and not his hardware. That being said, It's nice to have options in your hardware and especially not to lose options.