Really? I've never once had a Finder crash lead to a kernel panic. It just restarts itself.
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Is Apple still serious about the professional market?
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Really? I've never once had a Finder crash lead to a kernel panic. It just restarts itself.
Isn't it frightening that we discuss about this matter at all? Steve J. brought us to a point where nobody can be for sure that there will be release of a 2011 Mac Pro. In my eyes this is a horrible situation. Customers don't know if they can't spend their money on a new piece of tech next year but most importantly developers no longer know if they write code for a platform that will be abandoned or maybe kept alive for 2 or 3 years.
I find this entire thread pretty humorous actually. 12-14 months ago everyone was clamoring for the 2008 Mac Pros, talking about the revolutionary value they were for an Apple tower, how you could dual boot Windows, etc.
Apple releases one rev of MP, of which one model (the single proc) is considered a poor value, and all of a sudden the sky is falling.
I am looking forward to revisiting this thread in a year or two to see how things have changed. If they release the 2010's tomorrow with a prosumer model that's single processor at a decent price, everyone will be screaming from the rooftops how Apple is taking over the pro space.
If Finder really goes off the deep end you're usually unable to even use Force Quit. It's time to hold down the power button then.
If they release the 2010's tomorrow with a prosumer model that's single processor at a decent price, everyone will be screaming from the rooftops how Apple is taking over the pro space.
After waiting in vain for years for exactly that product, I really doubt it's going to happen now.
I can say that a lot of professional editorials in NYC are all leaving Avid behind and going Final Cut full time. My office recently dumped all of its Avids for three new 2xQuad core Mac Pros and Final Cut because, so far at least, HD seems easier with Final Cut than Avid.
What annoys me most about Apple's treatment of the Mac Pros is that it should be the easiest to keep at the cutting edge. It's basically off the shelf parts with some good cabling and a pretty case. They don't really have much to design like they do with laptops (keeping it thin and light) and the iMacs (keeping it thin at least). It's just a tower with an Apple logo on the side and would take seemingly no effort to actually keep remotely up to date.
Apple's hardware inside its current machines makes little children weep... except for the i core imacs.
Also directly from Steve Jobs:
No Plans to Make a Tablet
No plans to make a cell phone
People Dont Read Any More (unless it's on an iPad which will be the apparent savior of the print industry).
Why would anyone want a dinky, flash-based MP3 player?
Why would anyone want to watch video on a tiny iPod screen?
Jobs will say whatever is in the best interest of Apple at the time he is speaking. If FCP was in trouble or being put further on the back burner do you really think he would say that?
Like I've said in other threads where this has been brought up, actions speak louder than words so I'll continue to make judgements based on the hardware and software Apple releases and not on Steve's RDF.
Lethal
No Plans to Make a Tablet
No plans to make a cell phone
People Dont Read Any More (unless it's on an iPad which will be the apparent savior of the print industry).
Why would anyone want a dinky, flash-based MP3 player?
Why would anyone want to watch video on a tiny iPod screen?
Jobs will say whatever is in the best interest of Apple at the time he is speaking. If FCP was in trouble or being put further on the back burner do you really think he would say that?
Like I've said in other threads where this has been brought up, actions speak louder than words so I'll continue to make judgements based on the hardware and software Apple releases and not on Steve's RDF.
Lethal
Same at my workplace. All the oldish Avid's are being replaced with FCP and the editors are loving it. It's a great program and is totally open to any format you want to throw at it. Pro Res is great as well for working with HD. Here everything has been hooked up via fibre to an Xserve which holds all the data. I've been hearing more and more post production/edit houses here in Soho changing over as well. Correct me if I'm wrong but the Mac Pro with FCP is actually quite a reasonable price compared to Avid offerings....
I have no argument with the fact that a PC isn't just as capable. There was a time that I did. My comment is only relating to
and the pro market, and to me your comments only strengthen the aurguement as to why can't afford to abandon the pros.That must be according to you. Because for me, doing any kind of creative work on Windows would be like painting with my hair.
I agree on that one. But solely because of the price advantage.
Yet Avid is still more than twice the price, and offers practically the same (or arguably less), while Premiere is not really there yet.
I enjoy the CS4 workflow too, but that is exclusively under a Mac. 'Adobe', 'enjoy' and 'Windows' can't exist in the same sentence for me.
The problem is not if you can down it, it's how you do it.
But for everyone of you that hasn't there are thousands of us that have, or do, so it's not FUD. Exaggerated yes, but not FUD.
But it doesn't look as if you can run OS X legally, can you? That would be an big limitation for me, more than any hardware limitation that Apple forces.
I'm speaking as someone who uses his computer all day long and I think that there is a very big gap between the systems, at least for what I use them. (And that seems to be the case with my friends too)
That's the way I see it too, but for me the OS is the biggest priority. Of course that is dependent on what you do, but for me having good hardware is worthless when it doesn't run a good OS. And for me, Windows is not good enough.
From what I've seen, Macs are preferred in almost everything, with the exception of a few fields (architecture/engineering, 3D and business) for lack of software/price inconvenience. But hey, my research is not professional of course.
I agree that Apple's quad-core so-called "Pro" workstations aren't a good "value proposition".
However, it's not fair to compare a home built computer with a commercial product. In effect you are comparing "component costs" vs "system costs". This values your integration time at $0, plus you don't need to make a profit.
You need to compare Apple's workstation products with those from Dell or HP or IBM. When you do that, Apple doesn't look too bad. Not great, but not bad.
Avid is since offering lower priced software packages as well.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/411070-REG/Avid_0010_08105_01_Liquid_Pro_7_0_Video.html
It is horrible with the Quads, not as bad with the Octads (particularly with the base MP CPU P/N's; as the clock goes up, the difference decreases). Granted you can't get 100% parity, as the PC vendors offer different GPU's, HDD capacity, but at least RAM capacity and CPU specs are identical, and things like FW and NIC counts can be addressed with PCIe card/s.
Also keep in mind that the web pricing is higher than telephone based quotes as well.
In some cases, such as Sun, you have to get a quote over the phone, as there's no web configuration tool.
Do you see the irony of this?
I think it might be better to focus on rational discourse. Open up Photoshop CS4 64 bit in Windows on a smoking i7 machine. Now open Photoshop CS4 on a Mac Pro.
Which one performs better?
WHY would Windows be bad for creative work in ANY way? You have the same (or better) apps, and the OS just doesn't factor into what you're doing with those apps.
This reminds me of people on gearslutz.com who INSIST that you cannot make music on Windows, or that the Mac OS sounds better. Of course it's all rubbish, but some people seriously believe it. It's kinda hilarious.
I just don't see how a real conversation can be held, when one actually believes this kinda stuff.
Of course: Photoshop CS4 is 32bit on a Mac. Is expected to go 64bit with CS5. If this doesn't happen, Apple will lose customers.
PS: it's your own fault if you visit a website called "gearslutz" (
)I do agree. But Apple is not even in the ballpark, at least with the SP machines. The dual core Xeons are expensive CPUs, no doubt about that.
I think we are all peeved that they have nothing in the $1500 to $2000 space.
I'm also peeved that the SP Xeon comes with 3GB (3x1GB) of ram that needs to be placed in the trash to upgrade the ram and the video card costs them maybe $20.
A hyperthreading quad core at 2.66 should cost A LOT less than $3000 (including ram upgrade and video card upgrade to at least a 4870).
I never replaced my dual G5 2GHz that I sold before Apple made the switch to Intel. I want to, but... I can't justify it.
A lot of people act like they could not use a computer if it did not have OS X on it, and I guess I'm blessed that I don't feel that way. They end up essentially paying $1000 for OS X while bashing M$ as the monopolistic tyrant.
By the way, in the PC world, I build computers for fun, and for the hardware control. I don't think you've been able to actually save serious money on a home build for quite a few years now.
Not exactly related to this, but... I use After Effects on the PC. It's not 64-bit now, but will be with CS5.
Will Quicktime on PC be 64-bit by then? Does not look that way at the present time.
This little spat with Adobe is starting to really affect people at street level.
Steve! Please, for the love of God tell me again that you aren't going to build a Mac mini tower!!!
It might mean you will actually make one. I've got money burning a hole in my pocket, just waiting to be spent on a mini tower.
Except in 3d animation, game development, and hi-definition blu-ray disc creation. I love my mac, but let's be honest. The creative and technical tools, aside from FCP, are more numerous and/or often better implemented on Windows.
In the world of graphics, the "if" factor comes into play quite often. zBrush is not at parity in Mac OS X. Maya is finally coming to 64-bit on the mac, but for the past 4 years, what have people used for 64-bit Maya? Not OSX. ILM in particular said that some shots in Transformers would have been impossible before the 64-bit versions of Maya. Photoshop is not 64-bit, and Apple is doing a good job of making Adobe feel unwelcome.
The actions of Steve Jobs in particular would suggest that he does not really care about the pro market.
The quicktime issue on Windows is crappy. I wish Apple would take their format a bit more seriously and realize people use it to do work, not just watch movie trailers.
What great thread and filled with a lot of nonsense. (which is to be expected here)
I purchased the overpriced Quad 09 MacPro only because I had a friend who was willing to buy my 2008 iMac at near cost. If I hadn't done that I would have kept the iMac or just built a Windows box. Why? Adobe CS4 is the same on both platforms.
To the person who said designing in Windows would be like "painting with my hair" obviously has never used an Adobe program because they run equally painful on either platform.
At this point in the game unless you rely soley on FCP for your workflow it doesn't make a bit of difference on Windows 7 x64 vs Snow Leopard. It's all about preference now. The only difference between a MacPro and a Dell workstation (or build your own) is about $1000 in savings for something else later.
edit: Also you don't have to pay $360 for a 2yr old 4870 graphics card for Windows either.
I purchased the overpriced Quad 09 MacPro only because I had a friend who was willing to buy my 2008 iMac at near cost. If I hadn't done that I would have kept the iMac or just built a Windows box. Why? Adobe CS4 is the same on both platforms.
To the person who said designing in Windows would be like "painting with my hair" obviously has never used an Adobe program because they run equally painful on either platform.
At this point in the game unless you rely soley on FCP for your workflow it doesn't make a bit of difference on Windows 7 x64 vs Snow Leopard. It's all about preference now. The only difference between a MacPro and a Dell workstation (or build your own) is about $1000 in savings for something else later.
edit: Also you don't have to pay $360 for a 2yr old 4870 graphics card for Windows either.
That's sort of an odd thing to be thinking about, for - the Windows market is fragmented between 32 and 64 bit and has been for years; there isn't a single install that works for both. You'd have to reinstall, and most users just aren't thinking about it, and there hasn't been a total switch over to 64-bit as smoothly as it's going on OS X. If I were , I wouldn't be caring about making Quicktime 64-bit on windows. What's the point? I know very few PC people who opt to use it; the Mac users would rather just use it on their mac. Video delivery is quickly becoming agnostic with HTML5, anyway.
Adobe apps don't really run painfully on my machine. They could be better, but I wouldn't call it painful. Not after using CS1 on a G5. And software is not purely about preference at this point, either. It is if you're only using certain applications or a subset of them, but not everything is available both ways. GIS software and 3DSMax, for example, are Windows only. There are a lot of really nice smaller OS X only applications (ever tried Macheist?). Statements like that belie the users ignorance of the actual complexity of the software market. It's true that most everybody uses photoshop, but there are two fantastic photo manipulating apps on OS X called Acorn and Pixelmator. Well reviewed, less bloated, use some newer technology than photoshop. If you can't be bothered to go beyond blanket statements, you're missing out on a lot.
With regards to Final Cut, I agree you should judge by 's actions and not Steve's quips. So why are you so quick to forecast the end? There have been no indications that anything is changing besides one Mac Pro model that was a poorer value than the one that proceeded it and increased mobile device designs/sales. That's a lousy way to extrapolate.
That has had to do with the software available though. Users have been told for years that they only need 32bit, but software bloat has pushed the need for 64bit applications in some areas (non professional that didn't need it for the addressing from the get-go). Others haven't been affected to that degree just yet. But with 64bit OS's becoming more popular, and software bloat continuing unabated, it's only a matter of time.
Next we'll be in a 64/128 bit world.
Next we'll be in a 64/128 bit world.
I can see it now... Damn!!! CS20 is only able to utilize 16,000,000,000 GB of RAM... when will Adobe get on board with 128-bit!!!
Actually, I'm not sure Adobe's full suite doesn't already require 16 Exabytes of memory to run!