Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
iPhone 12 Is iPhone 12 still using PWM OLED?
- Thread starter changguangyu
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I will not buy iPhone 12 if it’s still 240hz PWM
I didn't realize I had an OLED screen on my Xs. I think I am getting a headache now.
Some people are sensitive to it and get eye strain/headaches.
I made the table, according to this: https://www.notebookcheck.net/PWM-Ranking-Notebooks-Smartphones-and-Tablets-with-PWM.163979.0.html
With the IPP IPS, the rate is high enough that it isn’t bothersome. With the iPhone’s OLED, the rate is lower which makes it more noticeable.
Last edited:
Do you guys who suffer from pwm strain have that problem with modern TVs too? Or is it just the iPhone? What about Android oled phones any problems with them? If you have an oled screen on your phone do you also have one on your wall?
What about led light bulbs, any issues with those?
What about led light bulbs, any issues with those?
Last edited:
Yes.
I had never heard of PWM before I was 39. I bought a Samsung S6 Edge and when I turned it on my vision started having problems - I didn't get headaches, I just started having a hard time focusing... Like after a few minutes, I couldn't on near details. I thought my eye's would adjust, and they never did. I got rid of it as soon as I was able but my eyes were never the same.
I went to an optometrist and an ophthalmologist where I learned that some people have more sensitive vision - and that outside of the current topic - it's a positive thing. These type of people simply ave a higher degree of visual acuity than others. People like that are physiologically capable of perceiving low frequency flicker like present on sub-300hz [maybe higher] OLED displays. On the autonomic level, the eye sees the flicker and tries to match it's pulse - contracting and relaxing over and over and over. Eventually it loses the fight and people start to experience issues with certain types of displays.
Indeed it's a phenomenon that's been around for decades in much more limited population sets. Back in the 70's and 80's, a fractional subset would have problems with florescent lighting. I don't know if design evolved, or if people still experience this; I assume so.
With regard to the experience for the human eye, the presence of such low level refresh rates in the brightness controls of the panel is largely inexcusable because invariably they can be altered at the software level with no more difficulty than making a product decision. These decisions are often dismissed in exchange for an additional 30 seconds of battery life per average charge... Nothing more. The fact is, Samsung and others who make display panels have absolutely no interest in acknowledging the issue unless forced to; it introduces legal liability should any person, or group, be able to litigate culpability for the vision problems their technology created.
So yes. Every TV, Every phone panel - no matter the brand, Every light bulb, and every light emitting source that uses PWM dimming below a frequency of 300Hz Currently, and for the past ten years, Samsung favors the 240Hz range which is disastrous for those who perceive it. iPhone 11 sat around 290Hz, which is significantly better in terms of population affected, but it still sucks. The higher above 300Hz, the better; numbers like 20,000Hz - which is Phillips Hue, Apple iPad, et al.. are imperceptible to everyone.
PWM sensitivity is real. It is serious AF for the person who lives with it and the number of people afflicted is exploding - as long as they use the tech, it's only going to get worse. Even then, not everyone will have a problem.
It's just a no-brainer change in the vast majority of relevant applications - the battery cost is so minor and the benefit so great; why NOT just adjust the frequency out of that range?
I have no issues with my TVs or light bulbs. With my tv, It has a much higher refresh rate and it’s not 6-12”’ from my eyes. With the lightbulbs, I’m not staring at them. I think the low refresh rate (Apple’s standard not equivalent to android OLED) combined with proximity to the eye is the issue.
@8:42, Rene Ritchie describes it having PWM and says if it affects you, you'll absolutely want to stick with 11, XR, and SE 2
Excellent catch. I watched this review and completely missed that. Not promising although I’m sure Rene doesn’t know if any further improvements have been made. It affects such a minority, but when you are in that minority, it’s disheartening.
yeah it would have to be run through a camera with slowdown to really observe how intense the wavelengths are
from what I recall reading, 11 pro did a much better job than X/XS but was still there - I never had an 11 pro though
You’re on point. Numerous members tolerated the 11 pro series better than previous OLED. The PWM was still present at 100% brightness, but the rate increased approximately e
30 points (which is minimal but helped some members and even acknowledged by reviewers). I’m crossing my fingers I can use the 12 pro Max.
It doesn’t sound like he did any testing, more just acknowledging that it has PWM like the recent iPhones. The 12 having PWM doesn’t necessarily mean we can’t use them, we still don’t know if they changed the general implementation or increased the Hz rate. I think we’ll have to wait until Fri to see what people on here think of it.
It's true. But it appears it does have PWM, so for people super sensitive that will probably be a deal breaker no matter the intensity thats probably why he drew that conclusion.
But definitely best to wait and see.
Plus I generally have brightness way up on my devices
When testing in store, I used to find the 11's display easier on my eyes compared to the 11 pros. If they haven't made any improvements in the PWM area, the 12 lineup would be no go for me.
^ What a bummer! You can see the flicker in the video.
Doesn't look like I can get a 12. I'm doomed. 2016 iPhone SE forever.
This is exactly one of the reasons I was not super excited just by the announcement of a smaller phone.
Doesn't look like I can get a 12. I'm doomed. 2016 iPhone SE forever.
This is exactly one of the reasons I was not super excited just by the announcement of a smaller phone.
Last edited: