Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
iPhone 12 Is iPhone 12 still using PWM OLED?
- Thread starter changguangyu
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
No, he didn't. He said "some people believe, and if so, you're going to want to stick with X..." I'm hoping Notebook Check gets one relatively soon.
If the gods are kind, 290.7 is a possibility. That frequency would be practically imperceptible to the majority of those who have struggles with lower frequency panels in the past. 300+ would be incredible but I'm not holding out hope there.
Last edited:
he said some people believe its PWM that gives them headaches not some people believe 12 has PWM. It does have PWM. Because he personally doesn’t get headaches he has to state it’s a belief of others that PWM is the cause. But that doesn’t discount that the 12 has PWM as well
you need to re visit the clip
I think 290 a possibility, if you move in that 240fps slow mo frame by frame (using , . keys), the "pulse" does run across the screen every 4 frames. But actually, I don't know what am I talking about.
My understanding is limited on this, but I know in one of those reviews, you could see the flicker of that iPhone 12 screen.... I imagine that does not bode well for those of us hoping for a much higher frequency flicker this year? If the frequency was let's say doubled, would it then not be visible in videos like this or even slow-mo video?
They’re usually pretty quick with iPhone reviews, I’d expect sometime next week.
I’m actually not sure on that one. Here’s a clip of the Lumia 950, (500Hz), I’m having trouble telling if there’s a difference between that and the 12.
Interesting! That flicker looks similar to the 12 in one of the reviews I watched. So I wonder, for people not to be affected, if the frequency needs to be much higher than even 500Hz? I have heard that some devices like the iPad pro and some TV's that use OLED have an insanely high frequency, such as 2500Hz. Maybe that's what it takes to truly not affect anyone? And I wonder how difficult it is to achieve that- maybe a lot more expensive?
I don't expect answers to that, just thinking out loud.
One would hope Apple would put a DC Dimming toggle as a feature in these now, I know my Huawei devices have the option to switch to DC Dimming. Apple could add it in Accessibility settings.
I personally don’t have PWM issues so I don’t mind the lack of DC Dimming feature in my iPhones.
I personally don’t have PWM issues so I don’t mind the lack of DC Dimming feature in my iPhones.
I have pretty bad sensitivity to flickering, and I’m okay with my tv that has 500-600Hz PWM. Considering that a lot of phones are either in that range or above, I definitely think Apple should up the Hz to at least that mark. And who knows, maybe they did in the 12
I’m more so worried about that dithering theory you uncovered. Not only did the 11 pro bother me, but the 11 lcd also bothered me. I’m back stuck on my 8 plus and I guess my only hope is the SE plus (if the dithering isn’t bad)
Or the 11? There doesn't seem to be a good understanding of when the SE Plus will arrive and/or whether it will be based off the 8 Plus or 11.
What is the story on the dithering? Curious because I am definitely sensitive to the screens on the XS and XS Max, but bought a regular 11 a year ago and though it has mostly been OK- I do go through bouts where it still bothers my eyes (not nearly as bad as with the OLED screens, though)- with a pain in the back of my eyes that comes and goes, generally only kicked off by looking at the phone.
I just assumed since there is no PWM on this and I never had it on any previous iPhone (6S and 7), that it was just the larger size, and that 6.1 inches of brightness hitting my eyes from close range vs the smaller screens of those past models. But maybe there is something else involved?
I have been thinking about making the switch to the SE 2020, partly because I prefer the smaller size anyway and prefer touchID, but if it would also be a bit more eye-pleasing screen vs the 11- more similar to that of the 6s, 7, 8- then that may make it worth the transition.
Edit:
It is also interesting that I can sit here all day- sometimes 10, 11, or even 12 hours- staring at the display on my 27" iMac as I work from home, and it does not bother my eyes at all. But sometimes just spending a few minutes looking at my phone can cause that pain to begin in the back of my eyes. It is not major, nothing like what I experienced with OLED screens, but still weird...
Even the 11 somehow gave me and some other people on here headaches. TDDM has a theory that it involves the temporal dithering process on the new phones. It’s the only thing that makes sense. All of the common “fixes” such as white point adjustment, brightness, True Tone, blocking the Face ID sensor, turning off awareness setting do nothing.
TDDM figured it out. Basically something changed on ALL screens starting with the XR. It’s not just oled pwm that is bugging some of us, as the xr and 11 (even the new SE) are lcd and should be 100% fine for everyone, but they aren’t.
It’s a separate issue from OLED PWM flickering, here’s my theory in a different thread: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/eye-strain-on-iphonexr.2150554/post-28997887
TLDR: A minority of people have eye strain & headaches from PWM flickering, and an even smaller minority get the same symptoms from the newer LCD Apple devices. I think something changed with the A12 chip, maybe they started doing something different with the graphics (Like introducing Temporal Dithering), etc. If you have issues with the XR, 11, iPad Pro 2018, etc, you may have the same problem.
Interesting that even the new SE has problem. Would never have guessed.
I was having trouble with the macbooks (pro/air) but turning off true tone and the ambient light sensor worked for me.
Wow, thank you all for these responses. This is news to me about the potential issues with the XR and 11, and even more surprising that even the SE 2020 is potentially affected. So it is likely not the screen itself, but the way the chip controls the display, huh? Then I guess our only hope without stepping way back to iPhone 8 or earlier is that whatever this is has been fixed- including the PWM flicker frequency- with the A13 chip.
Interesting that turning off the ambient light sensor ant true tone worked for you! I will try that on my 11. I notice when I turn off true tone in brief spurts, though, that the display looks bad- so extremely cold/blue.
I would happily move to a 12 mini or regular 12 (or hell, even a 12 pro) if I had some kind of confirmation that these issues have been addressed and shouldn't be a problem this time around.
I think the only way to know for sure if it affects you is to try it either in the store or by buying one and taking advantage of Apple's return policy. We are about to enter the holiday season and Apple's holiday return policy will allow you to try the device for almost 2 months.
Yeah, good call. Two years ago when I bought my XS, I loved the phone and was so torn not knowing if it was just a period of adjustment, where I'd be OK after a month or what- but I had that strict two week return policy to deal with, so at the end of two weeks I begrudgingly returned it when the eye strain had not improved.
If I could spend a full month using say a 12 mini it would be great- certainly if the strain/pain lasts that long,I am never going to adjust and do well with the device. I will consider this with the holiday return policy!
Unfortunately, (At least for me), it’s more that the A12 introduced the problem and it has been bad ever since. The iPhone 11 (A13) was just as bad. I suppose it’s possible the A14 chip fixed the issue (we could figure that out if someone tests the new iPad Air), but there are no A14 LCD iPhones even if it was fixed
I haven’t been able to test the SE 2020 yet, I’m very curious if it causes the same issues as the XR/11. If it does, it would seem more likely that the issue is the chip introducing some kind of flicker.
From what I have seen in my extensive searching and research, if you have any headache or eye strain from the phone, you will experience it within a very short period of time. I have also yet to find anyone who had legit issues and were able to “get over it”. You might try to convince yourself it’s fine, but if your eyes don’t like pwm, there is no way to fix the issue besides replacing the phone. I was someone who would buy a new phone every year and really got into it. Being bothered by pwm has completely killed my ability to continue buying phones every year. I had half a dozen oled android phones with no issue, but when I recently went back to a pixel 3xl I had a headache, so I’m unsure what is going on. All I know is I’m stuck with my 8 plus or an lcd android phone.
Sorry to hear that! It really is limiting when iPhones are all OLED going forward, and most Androids are these days, too.
Unfortunately, (At least for me), it’s more that the A12 introduced the problem and it has been bad ever since. The iPhone 11 (A13) was just as bad. I suppose it’s possible the A14 chip fixed the issue (we could figure that out if someone tests the new iPad Air), but there are no A14 LCD iPhones even if it was fixed
I haven’t been able to test the SE 2020 yet, I’m very curious if it causes the same issues as the XR/11. If it does, it would seem more likely that the issue is the chip introducing some kind of flicker.
I am curious if with the SE- even if it does have that same issue with dithering- if the smaller screen size makes it easier on the eyes, not taking so much of your field of view when using it as is the case on say an XR or 11?