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Is it morally acceptable to abuse a generous returns policy?

A

agent mac

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Original poster
Oct 9, 2007
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I know that Apple have a very generous no questions asked returns policy. But I would imagine that there is a significant cost to this for Apple ( which is obviouly then passed onto us, as customers ). After all, they can’t just put stuff back on the shelf like a book from a book store. There‘s an economic cost, and there’s an environmental cost, but there’s also a moral cost in that it seems many people are gaming this generous policy by buying machines they know they don’t need, in order to ‘test’ stuff out. This means people keenly waiting for a machine have to wait longer.
What do other people on here think of this? For me it seems in poor taste; the policy is there for people who genuinely find that the machine they bought just doesn’t suit their needs. And yet some folk on here almost talk about buying two and returning one with glee. Is it the worst of human nature, the unacceptable face of consumerism set against the pleas of restraint at COP 26? Or am I just getting old and fusty?

As background, I’m looking to buy one of the new laptops and so I’ve been researching my purchase to see what I need, don’t need, may want etc. I’ve measured out screen sizes on my desktop to compare,and been into the local computer stores to see various current apple models. I’ve read various reviews and spent probably too much time watching various YouTubers of no proven expertise all trotting out identikit rundowns. I feel like I've done my research now and I’d be pretty certain that when I make my purchase I’m making it seriously.

So, what do others think?
 
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I don’t know about morality but I’ve bought then returned numerous macs and iPhones.
As far as apples finances are concerned I don’t think we have to worry about it. They’re a 2 trillion dollar company that prides itself on customer service and if the returns were financially harming it they would change the policy.

Whether it’s fair to order two iPhone and return one after evaluating both… I don’t do that. But I have bought a device and returned it not liking it or it doesn’t fit my needs and I’m thankful they have that policy. It has saved me a lot of money over the years.
 
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clarencek said:
I don’t know about morality but I’ve bought then returned numerous macs and iPhones.
As far as apples finances are concerned I don’t think we have to worry about it. They’re a 2 trillion dollar company that prides itself on customer service and if the returns were financially harming it they would change the policy.

Whether it’s fair to order two iPhone and return one after evaluating both… I don’t do that. But I have bought a device and returned it not liking it or it doesn’t fit my needs and I’m thankful they have that policy. It has saved me a lot of money over the years.
Click to expand...
but isn’t it missing the point that Apple can afford it? Ultimately the costs of this policy are passed onto the customers. So people abusing the policy mean other customers end up paying more than they would otherwise?
 
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agent mac said:
What do other people on here think of this? For me it seems in poor taste
Click to expand...
It seems in poor taste to me as well, but it's Apple's doing, so I can't fault anyone other than them. People in the queue that are getting delayed have more time to think about canceling it themselves, even before it ships.
 
agent mac said:
I know that Apple have a very generous no questions asked returns policy. But I would imagine that there is a significant cost to this for Apple ( which is obviouly then passed onto us, as customers ). After all, they can’t just put stuff back on the shelf like a book from a book store. There‘s an economic cost, and there’s an environmental cost, but there’s also a moral cost in that it seems many people are gaming this generous policy by buying machines they know they don’t need, in order to ‘test’ stuff out. This means people keenly waiting for a machine have to wait longer.
What do other people on here think of this? For me it seems in poor taste; the policy is there for people who genuinely find that the machine they bought just doesn’t suit their needs. And yet some folk on here almost talk about buying two and returning one with glee. Is it the worst of human nature, the unacceptable face of consumerism set against the pleas of restraint at COP 26? Or am I just getting old and fusty?

As background, I’m looking to buy one of the new laptops and so I’ve been researching my purchase to see what I need, don’t need, may want etc. I’ve measured out screen sizes on my desktop to compare,and been into the local computer stores to see various current apple models. I’ve read various reviews and spent probably too much time watching various YouTubers of no proven expertise all trotting out identikit rundowns. I feel like I've done my research now and I’d be pretty certain that when I make my purchase I’m making it seriously.

So, what do others think?
Click to expand...
Apple has ridiculous margins so they won’t lose money on your returns. They’ll just sell it as refurbished and still make a 50% profit margin.
 
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Apple products are expensive. For that reason, I find it perfectly reasonable that someone want to test sometimes two or even three variations of the same product before keeping one of them (colors, configuration, size, etc.).

To be honest, even with the chip shortage it’s somewhat easy to have a product for launch day, either by preorders or same day pick up.

Is that abuse? I understand your point of view but I don’t think it is. The policy exist to give people the possibility to test 1, 2, heck 5 Apple products at the same time if they want. I personally always decide which config I want before preorders start, so I wouldn’t order two devices with similar specs with the purpose to return one. But I don’t have a problem with people doing that, I believe it’s a slight minority of all Apple customers and the others just have to be faster if they don’t want to wait a few weeks.
 
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How about this for you:

Imagine at night Tim Cook bathes himself in $100 bills. Sleeps on a stack of $100 bills shaped like a king size pillow. Wakes up and makes $100 sandwiches then his henchmens haul him to the office in a wagon and he is sitting on a throne made of $100 bills.

Let me just say that I don't give one flying **** about returning anything apple. You dig?
 
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This question, to me, has no bearing whatsoever on morality. You're just simply making life difficult for yourself. The wheel of capitalism is what it is. And, in any event, what's tasteless to you may seem fine to others. So at the end of the day you need to ask yourself how strongly you feel about this.

Also realize that Apple views this return policy as a way to INDUCE sales. So, yes, it costs something for them. But, it also helps people pull the trigger when they might otherwise be hesitant. Apple is probably one of the most capitalist companies on Earth. They know how to pull all the right levers in all aspects to get you to buy. A liberal return policy is just one of the levers at their disposal. Hesitating to make that policy work for you for the sake of "morality" does nothing but inconvenience yourself, in my opinion.
 
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Infinitewisdom said:
This question, to me, has no bearing whatsoever on morality. You're just simply making life difficult for yourself. The wheel of capitalism is what it is. And, in any event, what's tasteless to you may seem fine to others. So at the end of the day you need to ask yourself how strongly you feel about this.

Also realize that Apple views this return policy as a way to INDUCE sales. So, yes, it costs something for them. But, it also helps people pull the trigger when they might otherwise be hesitant. Apple is probably one of the most capitalist companies on Earth. They know how to pull all the right levers in all aspects to get you to buy. A liberal return policy is just one of the levers at their disposal. Hesitating to make that policy work for you for the sake of "morality" does nothing but inconvenience yourself, in my opinion.
Click to expand...
so I’m far from being a sack wearing eco warrior, but isn’t that side of it slightly sad as well. I’m as guilty as anyone else, but what does it say about our chances for reducing strain on a beleaguered planet when websites such as this exist to indulge and entice people to upgrade upgrade upgrade. And to be clear, I’m as guilty as anyone else. A decent proportion of this site is driven by shiny new toys mentality. does that make us all simple magpies??
 
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I do a ridiculous amount of research before pulling the trigger on any purchase, but there's a big gap between research and fiddling with it in a retail store, and living with it day-to-day. If I spend the money for something, and it doesn't meet my needs, I definitely send it back.

Having said that, I've returned very few items in my lifetime, and none to Apple. I guess I've been lucky...
 
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is it abuse to buy 2 laptops and return 1 given the supply constraints and ambiguous battery life specs from apple?
i call it good sense.

lot of other things i have moral compunction about. this one doesn't make the list.
 
agent mac said:
I know that Apple have a very generous no questions asked returns policy. But I would imagine that there is a significant cost to this for Apple ( which is obviouly then passed onto us, as customers ). After all, they can’t just put stuff back on the shelf like a book from a book store. There‘s an economic cost, and there’s an environmental cost, but there’s also a moral cost in that it seems many people are gaming this generous policy by buying machines they know they don’t need, in order to ‘test’ stuff out. This means people keenly waiting for a machine have to wait longer.
What do other people on here think of this? For me it seems in poor taste; the policy is there for people who genuinely find that the machine they bought just doesn’t suit their needs. And yet some folk on here almost talk about buying two and returning one with glee. Is it the worst of human nature, the unacceptable face of consumerism set against the pleas of restraint at COP 26? Or am I just getting old and fusty?

As background, I’m looking to buy one of the new laptops and so I’ve been researching my purchase to see what I need, don’t need, may want etc. I’ve measured out screen sizes on my desktop to compare,and been into the local computer stores to see various current apple models. I’ve read various reviews and spent probably too much time watching various YouTubers of no proven expertise all trotting out identikit rundowns. I feel like I've done my research now and I’d be pretty certain that when I make my purchase I’m making it seriously.

So, what do others think?
Click to expand...
If it was really affecting their bottom line, they would change the policy to make it harder to return. Some places charge restocking fees for items to offset some of these costs. When CompUSA was still in business, one year they were selling TVs and had a 14 day no cost return policy. Before super bowl they completely sold out of TV's and about 90% were returned the week after the Super Bowl. They immediately changed the return policy after this happened
 
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JamieLannister said:
How about this for you:

Imagine at night Tim Cook bathes himself in $100 bills. Sleeps on a stack of $100 bills shaped like a king size pillow. Wakes up and makes $100 sandwiches then his henchmens haul him to the office in a wagon and he is sitting on a throne made of $100 bills.

Let me just say that I don't give one flying fk about returning anything apple. You dig?
Click to expand...
But suppose if people didn’t return things like they were planks of wood from the timber yard, our kit was cheaper. Would that be something to dig?
 
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AFK said:
is it abuse to buy 2 laptops and return 1 given the supply constraints and ambiguous battery life specs from apple?
i call it good sense.

lot of other things i have moral compunction about. this one doesn't make the cut.
Click to expand...
Others might call it selfish as it’s purposefully making others wait longer for their kit?
 
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soulreaver99 said:
when you have the word "abuse" in your question - you've included your answer. it is now just a matter of whether or not you personally give a ****
Click to expand...
You’re right. I already have an opinion. I’m just interested in what others think.
 
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