Is it morally acceptable to abuse a generous returns policy?

[JamieLannister]

But suppose if people didn’t return things like they were planks of wood from the timber yard, our kit was cheaper. Would that be something to dig?

This has to do with how one company manages their inventory. You got a bean counter at the helm and if he were to have an issue with these "returns" he'd stop it like how Costco does now.

Like others say apple resells them back to the market and they don't have an issue with that process either. I've never heard of anyone complain about a buying a cheaper apple product that was 'returned'.

 

[agent mac]

I do a ridiculous amount of research before pulling the trigger on any purchase, but there's a big gap between research and fiddling with it in a retail store, and living with it day-to-day. If I spend the money for something, and it doesn't meet my needs, I definitely send it back.

Having said that, I've returned very few items in my lifetime, and none to Apple. I guess I've been lucky...

And you seem the exact type of genuine customer Apple presumably created this policy for as you’re not intentionally gaming it. That’s the huge difference. Many people on here just seem to not really care. If you wouldn’t take the mickey out of a small local store in your neighbour hood, does the fact that Apple is a big successful giant make it right?

 

[Natzoo]

Am I abusing the return policy if I am buying another 16" M1 and then transferring the data to it and returning my "old" 16" M1 because I want to use the $1k apple gift card for trading in my old mac?

They wouldn't credit my original purchase which makes sense but I need a laptop at all times.

 

[ipsedixit]

The costs of this "generous" return policy is already built in into every Apple product you buy.

Apple is not stupid (cue the "obvious" statement theme here) but Apple is not going to be caught flat-footed by its own return policy and then increase prices ex post.

Apple does it ex ante.

 

[AFK]

Others might call it selfish as it’s purposefully making others wait longer for their kit?

yup. im selfish. hate waiting. but i'm also not that bad. i give to charity and stuff. u know? take all of me. good with the bad.

 

[vincenz]

Some people don’t have the luxury of time and/or geography to get to a physical apple store. 14 day no questions policy seems fair. With the minuscule number of returns versus sales, and that the devices should remain in a condition good enough to use for replacements or resell as refurbs, it’s not that big of a deal.

OP, go outside and get some fresh air instead of playing morality police on the internet.

 

[agent mac]

This has to do with how one company manages their inventory. You got a bean counter at the helm and if he were to have an issue with these "returns" he'd stop it like how Costco does now.

Like others say apple resells them back to the market and they don't have an issue with that process either. I've never heard of anyone complain about a buying a cheaper apple product that was 'returned'.

But do you accept that the people gaming the system on purpose are making others wait for their machine as so many are taking a detour to go through a checking/restocking process. Let’s face it, for all the machines that people on here have returned, I haven’t seen any refurbished kit for sale? Or do they resell it as brand new?

 

[agent mac]

Some people don’t have the luxury of time and/or geography to get to a physical apple store. 14 day no questions policy seems fair. With the minuscule number of returns versus sales, and that the devices should remain in a condition good enough to use for replacements or resell as refurbs, it’s not that big of a deal.

OP, go outside and get some fresh air instead of playing morality police on the internet.

It’s a forum for discussion. Are you no platforming me?

 

[JamieLannister]

But do you accept that the people gaming the system on purpose are making others wait for their machine as so many are taking a detour to go through a checking/restocking process. Let’s face it, for all the machines that people on here have returned, I haven’t seen any refurbished kit for sale? Or do they resell it as brand new?

I use to work as a technician at a big store (that has a yellow tag as a sign) this was a long time ago and the returns I received most of the time I just check for (matching product to box, serial numbers if they are indeed legit). That's it. There is no hassling of the buyer for their return unless it is over the policy return window time. There were times I'd receive something else other than the actual product like a plate shaped like the product weight and size or some accessories are missing. If I miss that check then the store eats up the costs.

I don't know how they do it today but I think other stores probably log your ID info and return product black listing you. Apple is so large and it is generous of them to allow for 14-day no questions asked return policy. Sure people will abuse it and I'm sure the store manager will confront the issue. But in reality Apple is a huge business and they have no problems with returns.

Refurbished means wiping it clean, making sure it's not locked and functioning and putting a new wrapper on the box.

 

[gspannu]

The numbers of returns (over the lifecycle of the particular product) is actually very low. If a particular iPhone model is being sold for say 30 months; the percentage of units returned vs sold is likely very low. Apple’s pricing strategists would have already taken that into account and estimated the prorata returns cost/ unit of the returns - and as I believe the prorata cost is still very low.

We also need to bear in mind that these ‘deliberate returns’ by a few people are usually only seen for the first couple of months after a product launch and then everything settles down. In my view & experience, I do not see that the returns policy has a significant cost addition.

 

[kenny7]

I don't think it's as bad as it sounds. If you return a macbook pro, Apple will replace the outer casing and sell it refurbished. It's not like the whole device is not wasted. The same thing is not true for other companies like Amazon. Most Amazon returns end up in landfill

 

[Sanpete]

Several people here not getting the point that returns raise prices, for everyone. Some who do get it are claiming with no evidence that it's not a big enough effect to matter. What I see in these forums doesn't support that. Seems pretty common here.

 

[killramos]

The policy helps them sell more products.

You might think you are abusing it, but they are the ones who are winning in aggregate.

Example, someone who buys something with the express intention of returning but ends up keeping the product. That’s a sale they just made that they otherwise wouldn’t.

It’s part of the whole sales package / product experience.

 

[QCassidy352]

Go to a store, try out all the options you are considering, and make a decision. If it truly doesn’t meet your needs, then return it - that’s what the policy is for. It’s not for buying products you know you’ll be returning.

That said: There are much worse things in the world, and I don’t really worry about this one except when I see a thread like this.

 

[Sheepish-Lord]

Several people here not getting the point that returns raise prices, for everyone. Some who do get it are claiming with no evidence that it's not a big enough effect to matter. What I see in these forums doesn't support that. Seems pretty common here.

You're stating folks have no evidence but where's your evidence it raises prices? You can't possibly know that.

 

[Macintosh101]

How about this for you:

Imagine at night Tim Cook bathes himself in $100 bills. Sleeps on a stack of $100 bills shaped like a king size pillow. Wakes up and makes $100 sandwiches then his henchmens haul him to the office in a wagon and he is sitting on a throne made of $100 bills.

Let me just say that I don't give one flying fk about returning anything apple. You dig?

Correction: Tim Cook sleeps under a quilt made up of hundreds of carefully stiched together Apple Polishing Cloths™

 

[KaliYoni]

You’re right. I already have an opinion. I’m just interested in what others think.

Will responses here affect your purchase decision?

 

[HarryMudd]

I feel it too. In general, not just with Apple. I bought a watch many years ago and it stoped working 9 years later, I returned it for a new watch. I had the second watch for 10 years and dropped it. They replaced that one too. Now they no longer offer the life time replacement warranty.

My kids will order 5 pairs of shoes, different sizes and colors, then send all but one back.

I tried doing that once. I couldn’t decide which style of backpack I wanted so I ordered two intending to send one back. I just couldn’t do it. I kept both.

It makes me feel dishonest to order something with the intention of returning it. Obviously that’s a personal issue, nothing to do with anyone else. But to the OP, I feel your unease.

 

[Madhatter32]

Make your best effort to order the one device you think you want. If it does not work out for whatever reason, you should return it and try again. That is how these policies are designed to work.

I think people abuse return policies in certain situations where they have no intent on keeping the device (they are, in effect, borrowing it). For example, I think it is an abuse of a return policy if someone orders 5 machines to try each one out with the intent of only keeping one.

Also, intentionally abusing a return policy is not morally correct because it does absolutely reflect on your character as a dishonest person.

 

[Kylo83]

Is it moral to charge £20 for a cloth

 

[Analog Kid]

It depends on the situation, I guess. I you live next door to an Apple Store, and mail order two machines to see what they look like and return one or both-- then yeah, that's probably not the best use of resources. If you don't have easy access to a store to see them in person, or if you have a legitimate reason to want them both in hand to compare them, then I think that's just the reality of modern online shopping.

Just like everything else about online shopping, it may not be the most efficient allocation of resources, but it's what people want and it extends the reach of a company to people outside a handful of urban hubs. I'm convinced the reason Amazon has been as successful as they are is because of the ease of returns-- it makes people more comfortable buying knowing they can fix a mistake. Before that, purchasing online was always a bit dicey and it was much easier to buy big ticket items from a physical place you could lug stuff back to.

 

[Analog Kid]

Is it moral to charge £20 for a cloth

Yes

 

[soulreaver99]

Is it moral to charge £20 for a cloth

If apple charged $2000 for it, people would still buy it

 

[pi=e=3]

Big companies don’t care about you, so why do you care about them?

This is such a silly question. I can’t imagine thinking like this and worrying about stuff like this, lmao.

I have like a 35% return rate on Amazon. Good. F Amazon and Jeff, maybe it will help account for the vast swaths of taxes they dodge.

 

[Kierkegaarden]

That’s easy. Abuse in any form is immoral, and there is no justification for it. Would you be happy if someone abused your own generosity?