Is RAM upgradeable in the Mac Mini?

[F-Train]

That cage serves no purpose in the Mac Mini but to make it more difficult to upgrade it just like the tamper proof screws.

Yes, because only people with a top secret security clearance can get their hands on screwdrivers for tamper-resistant Torx screws.

But you're missing the bigger point. Apple could just as easily use the flathead screws that we all know and love, but it uses these Torx thingies because nobody in the Good ol' USA knows what they are, even though they were invented here.

But hey, Apple could have made it worse and used one of those Canuck Robertson screws. Only reason it didn't is that Canada is using trade to undermine 'Murica's national security. Just ask the President.

Sorry, but I'm way beyond taking the allegations against Apple in this thread seriously. Might as well have fun with them

 

[Dr. Stealth]

I am sorry but what are they protecting against in an essentially sealed machine? And it serves little if no purpose for heat dissipation. The reason you have exhaust shields like that are to protect your legs from touching the hot exhaust pipe, not to dissipate heat. That cage serves no purpose in the Mac Mini but to make it more difficult to upgrade it just like the tamper proof screws.

Believe what you want with your limited knowledge...

I'm a retired Aerospace Engineer who has directly worked on Weapons Systems, Dozens of Military Aircraft, Commercial Aircraft, Military Tanks, and the Space Shuttle. Just to name a few.

But, you are probably right. Apple did it to keep us out.

 

[twennywonn]

Is this the correct ram?

https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categ...2666MHz-CL18-Memory-Kit/p/CMSX16GX4M2A2666C18

 

[rmdeluca]

I am sorry but what are they protecting against in an essentially sealed machine? And it serves little if no purpose for heat dissipation. The reason you have exhaust shields like that are to protect your legs from touching the hot exhaust pipe, not to dissipate heat. That cage serves no purpose in the Mac Mini but to make it more difficult to upgrade it just like the tamper proof screws.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_3.0#Radio_frequency_interference

 

[tipoo]

Probably answered somewhere in the 21 previous pages, but for devices like this that Apple recommends you come in for an upgrade, do they charge you extra for the install? If you brought your own RAM?

 

[F-Train]

Probably answered somewhere in the 21 previous pages, but for devices like this that Apple recommends you come in for an upgrade, do they charge you extra for the install? If you brought your own RAM?

See post #490, 15 posts before your question.

 

[Zackmd1]

Believe what you want with your limited knowledge...

I'm a retired Aerospace Engineer who has directly worked on Weapons Systems, Dozens of Military Aircraft, Commercial Aircraft, Military Tanks, and the Space Shuttle. Just to name a few.

But, you are probably right. Apple did it to keep us out.

Mechanical Engineer here.... Probably best not to assume someone has "limited knowledge" just because they go against your theory.

The only possible reason I could think of why they put the cage there would be for EMV protection (like pointed out in a few posts above) but plenty of Apple's other systems have went along just fine without that metal cage in a much tighter enclosure and much closer to sources of EMI (wifi antennas, bluetooth, etc...)? The ram modules are next to the CPU (which should not be radiating much heat into the surrounding case due to the heatpipe) but that metal cage would likely trap any radiated heat under it since the ram modules overlap the CPU no? Take a closer look at that internal layout and you should be able to see what I am referring to...

It is so hard to believe that Apple put that cage there to deter customers from upgrading the ram themselves in order to charge them their full upgrade pricing when the customer brings it into the service center? Sounds like Apple to me...

 

[StellarVixen]

Believe what you want with your limited knowledge...

I'm a retired Aerospace Engineer who has directly worked on Weapons Systems, Dozens of Military Aircraft, Commercial Aircraft, Military Tanks, and the Space Shuttle. Just to name a few.

But, you are probably right. Apple did it to keep us out.

What does aerospace engineer has to do with tanks?

 

[Dr. Stealth]

Dave puts on his Tin Foil Hat.....

 

[znagle]

Thanks. Have you noticed the fan kicking in yet?

D

Nope. I have the mini sitting on top of a OWC Mercury Heliox FX with a Sapphire Pulse RX 580 and the whole setup is extremely quiet when running Geekbench. Alarmingly quiet. I was actually concerned that maybe I didn't plug the fan back in correctly. But I downloaded Macs Fan Control and was able to manually turn the fans up from 1700rpm (minimum speed) to 4400rpm (max speed) and then you can hear them.

 

[F-Train]

Video for ram upgrade:

Thanks for a very clear video. Excellent.

 

[IG88]

Believe what you want with your limited knowledge...

I'm a retired Aerospace Engineer who has directly worked on Weapons Systems, Dozens of Military Aircraft, Commercial Aircraft, Military Tanks, and the Space Shuttle. Just to name a few.

But, you are probably right. Apple did it to keep us out.

Very impressive résumé, but that cage isn't for heat dissipation. It isn't contacting any heat source to dissipate heat away from. It's more likely to protect the RAM from EMI.

I definitely respect your cajones though as far as tearing into that thing without any sort of guide. Very cool.

 

[PianoPro]

Probably answered somewhere in the 21 previous pages, but for devices like this that Apple recommends you come in for an upgrade, do they charge you extra for the install? If you brought your own RAM?

I went to an Apple store today and asked some of these questions so I could assess the answers in person. FWIW, I talked to an employee that seemed more knowledgeable than most I've met at Apple Stores, and he also took time to research my questions. While he may or may not have had or received accurate info, I felt pretty confident that he wasn't just dreaming up his answers.

His answers:

1. The Apple Store will NOT install RAM that you provide.
2. If you request an upgrade in RAM after your initial purchase you will be charged the Apple price for the new RAM you buy (not the much lower difference in price between the factory RAM options). i.e. the upgrade price for 32 GB RAM will be the Apple Price for 32 GB RAM, not the difference between the Mini price for whatever you bought initially (say 16 GB RAM) and the Mini price for 32 GB. In effect you will end up paying a total of the initial RAM component price for 16 GB + the (repair) component price for 32 GB (which makes sense because they are separate purchases).
3. You will also pay an additional labor charge for installing the replacement RAM.
4. Apple will not service a product with 3rd party RAM in it.

He said they didn't have service prices yet for the RAM or for the RAM replacement labor - probably because that situation wouldn't apply yet.

I also called an independent authorized Apple service center today and they said they would NOT install RAM upgrades for the Mini (using Apple supplied RAM or any other RAM). I suspect that will change later with Apple supplied RAM (obviously they will need to do RAM repairs later).

 

[F-Train]

Very impressive résumé, but that cage isn't for heat dissipation. It isn't contacting any heat source to dissipate heat away from.

I'm not an engineer and I don't want to get caught in the middle of this discussion. However, I do ride a motorcycle (see Dr. Stealth's original post) and know a bit about high performance cars, and I know the difference between a heat shield and a heat wrap. Might be worth looking it up. It is not the case that heat management necessarily involves contact with the heat source, and indeed often it doesn't.

 

[rmdeluca]

The ram modules are next to the CPU (which should not be radiating much heat into the surrounding case due to the heatpipe) but that metal cage would likely trap any radiated heat under it since the ram modules overlap the CPU no? Take a closer look at that internal layout and you should be able to see what I am referring to...

It is so hard to believe that Apple put that cage there to deter customers from upgrading the ram themselves in order to charge them their full upgrade pricing when the customer brings it into the service center? Sounds like Apple to me...

A few things to keep in mind here:

1) The holes in the cages are an order of magnitude (or more) smaller than the wavelength of ~2.4GHz and ~5GHz EMR, so they aren't designed to let anything pass through except for air (for heat exchange)

2) The i7-8700B and i5-8500B have a 2.666GHz RAM clock, but the i3-8100 has a 2.4GHz RAM clock

3) Both Bluetooth and the older WiFi standards operate in the 2.4GHz range, so shielding the RAM to reduce self-interference with the radios is good engineering practice

 

[Dr. Stealth]

What does aerospace engineer has to do with tanks?

Yea sounds crazy but thats reality when you work for large Military contractors (McDonnell Douglas, Boeing, North American Rockwell, Ford Aerospace, Northrop, Lockheed, etc) you work on whatever you are assigned to work on. It's actually very cool, it mixes things up a bit. They will say "Well this contract is ending but if you still want to work we have this new contract starting up if you want to move over to the new contract". Never a dull moment...

So this year you may work on a Missile system and next year you may work on a Tank. It's an awesome job.

 

[jameschho]

Just did my upgrade fresh out of the box. Took 15 min. Easy peasy as long as you have the right tools

 

[tipoo]

I went to an Apple store today and asked some of these questions so I could assess the answers in person. FWIW, I talked to an employee that seemed more knowledgeable than most I've met at Apple Stores, and he also took time to research my questions. While he may or may not have had or received accurate info, I felt pretty confident that he wasn't just dreaming up his answers.

His answers:

1. The Apple Store will NOT install RAM that you provide.
2. If you request an upgrade in RAM after your initial purchase you will be charged the Apple price for the new RAM you buy (not the much lower difference in price between the factory RAM options). i.e. the upgrade price for 32 GB RAM will be the Apple Price for 32 GB RAM, not the difference between the Mini price for whatever you bought initially (say 16 GB RAM) and the Mini price for 32 GB. In effect you will end up paying a total of the initial RAM component price for 16 GB + the (repair) component price for 32 GB (which makes sense because they are separate purchases).
3. You will also pay an additional labor charge for installing the replacement RAM.
4. Apple will not service a product with 3rd party RAM in it.

He said they didn't have service prices yet for the RAM or for the RAM replacement labor - probably because that situation wouldn't apply yet.

I also called an independent authorized Apple service center today and they said they would NOT install RAM upgrades for the Mini (using Apple supplied RAM or any other RAM). I suspect that will change later with Apple supplied RAM (obviously they will need to do RAM repairs later).

Thanks!

This all leaves me...Whelmed. When they mentioned SO-DIMMs on stage, I thought that was a wink wink to the upgrade crowd, even if they weren't going to say they officially supported that or support one with third party RAM in it, but they kept it a bit of a PITA to upgrade, and the in-store upgrades offered are even less cost effective than direct purchase upgrades with the redundant buying.

 

[F-Train]

0

Thanks!

This all leaves me...Whelmed. When they mentioned SO-DIMMs on stage, I thought that was a wink wink to the upgrade crowd, even if they weren't going to say they officially supported that or support one with third party RAM in it, but they kept it a bit of a PITA to upgrade, and the in-store upgrades offered are even less cost effective than direct purchase upgrades with the redundant buying.

Well if you read the posts here and watch the videos coming out, you'll discover that replacing the RAM is not exactly brain surgery.

There also seems to be pretty much a consensus that Apple's price for a 16GB machine at time of purchase is in fact attractive, given that the RAM comes installed and the computer is ready to go.* As a practical matter, this whole issue is academic unless you want 32GB, where there is indeed a significant price difference between Apple's price and third party price. At 64GB, the relative merits become murky again, and so far nobody engaged in this discussion has even suggested that they want to install 64GB.

* Some people have talked about saving money by selling the original 8GB. Meanwhile, OWC/MacSales are offering the grand sum of $30 for it, and if you sell it you have the small problem of not having the original RAM if you need to take your mini for a visit to Apple Repair.

 

[redheeler]

Video for ram upgrade:

Good video, definitely clears up any remaining confusion. Thanks for posting.
[doublepost=1541648724][/doublepost]Process is slightly quicker than I expected. The heatsink doesn't need to be removed, only the fan, which is an important detail.

 

[IG88]

Might be worth looking it up.

I've been riding / owning / modifying / rebuilding motorcycles for over 35 years, and I am an engineer, BSEE. I'm well aware of what heat shields on motorcycle exhausts are, and their purpose. I don't need to look anything up. What you see in that Mini is not a heat shield. This isn't a motorcycle.

The WiFi antenna is close enough to the RAM, and the RAM frequency being 2.4 GHz in at least one of the configurations, that Apple is apparently worried about EMI with the RAM. That's what it is, not a heat shield.

 

[galactic orange]

As a practical matter, this whole issue is academic unless you want 32GB, where there is indeed a significant price difference between Apple's price and third party price. At 64GB, the relative merits become murky again, and so far nobody engaged in this discussion has even suggested that they want to install 64GB.

I wanted to install 64GB for audio work. After watching the video I think this RAM install doesn't look hard at all. In fact, it looks easier than when I installed a second SSD in my 2012 Mini.

However, prices for 64GB (32GBx2) SO-DIMMs are so high:
1) when ordered from and installed by Apple
2) when ordered from a third party because there are not yet many suppliers
3) and when purchased where I live (Japan)

In fact, Crucial has a list of international sellers of their products, with one in Japan but the markup on 32GB makes ordering in the US much more appealing. But the big issue for me now is not the price of memory in the US vs Japan, or even the price of Apple RAM vs third party. The big issue is the fact that 64GB costs three times what 32GB costs no matter where it's purchased.

So I might have to "settle" for 32GB for now (still quite a jump from the 16GB in my 2012 Mini though, and more than I've ever used). Wondering if anyone else is planning to hold off a year or two for 64GB because I can very nearly buy a 2018 MacBook Air along with the new Mini for the difference in price.

 

[oldtime]

4. Apple will not service a product with 3rd party RAM in it.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm almost positive they can't refuse that service (i.e., it's illegal) unless the problem needing repair is verifiably a result of the third party component(s).
[doublepost=1541650507][/doublepost]

I wanted to install 64GB for audio work. After watching the video I think this RAM install doesn't look hard at all. In fact, it looks easier than when I installed a second SSD in my 2012 Mini.

However, prices for 64GB (32GBx2) SO-DIMMs are so high:
1) when ordered from and installed by Apple
2) when ordered from a third party because there are not yet many suppliers
3) and when purchased where I live (Japan)

In fact, Crucial has a list of international sellers of their products, with one in Japan but the markup on 32GB makes ordering in the US much more appealing. But the big issue for me now is not the price of memory in the US vs Japan, or even the price of Apple RAM vs third party. The big issue is the fact that 64GB costs three times what 32GB costs no matter where it's purchased.

So I might have to "settle" for 32GB for now (still quite a jump from the 16GB in my 2012 Mini though, and more than I've ever used). Wondering if anyone else is planning to hold off a year or two for 64GB because I can very nearly buy a 2018 MacBook Air along with the new Mini for the difference in price.

I'm holding off even on buying 32GB simply because the prices are still inflated. 64 is of course even worse. Worth a read: https://www.pcgamer.com/if-this-mar...see-huge-drops-in-ram-and-ssd-prices-in-2019/

If waiting 6-12 months means saving several hundred dollars, it's well worth the small bit of patience.

 

[Cheapassmac]

I know a couple months ago, a famous youtuber had his iMac Pro refused. He even offered to pay for it (ie: not claim warranty).

 

[F-Train]

I wanted to install 64GB for audio work. After watching the video I think this RAM install doesn't look hard at all. In fact, it looks easier than when I installed a second SSD in my 2012 Mini.

However, prices for 64GB (32GBx2) SO-DIMMs are so high:
1) when ordered from and installed by Apple
2) when ordered from a third party because there are not yet many suppliers
3) and when purchased where I live (Japan)

In fact, Crucial has a list of international sellers of their products, with one in Japan but the markup on 32GB makes ordering in the US much more appealing. But the big issue for me now is not the price of memory in the US vs Japan, or even the price of Apple RAM vs third party. The big issue is the fact that 64GB costs three times what 32GB costs no matter where it's purchased.

So I might have to "settle" for 32GB for now (still quite a jump from the 16GB in my 2012 Mini though, and more than I've ever used). Wondering if anyone else is planning to hold off a year or two for 64GB because I can very nearly buy a 2018 MacBook Air along with the new Mini for the difference in price.

Sounds like you're doing something like orchestral mockups with heavy-duty sample libraries and a lot of tracks.

The need for lots of RAM for that kind of thing has existed for some time, but doesn't seem to have brought the price down to earth. It would be interesting to know what someone who understands the RAM market thinks about where the price for 64GB, or for that matter 128GB, will be in a year or two.

When I was looking into purchasing a Mac mini, I looked briefly at the price of 64GB and blanched