Is RAM upgradeable in the Mac Mini?

[Miat]

Thanks to all who have taken the risk and ventured inside the new Mini, and reported back. Much appreciated.

One question: Did you spot any security seals/tags along the way that had to be broken to get in? IOW, would Apple be able to tell if you had been inside it?

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re: purpose of RAM cage

Nothing about that cage says thermal management to me, and there is no reason for it to be mechanical protection either.

It's an RF shield.

Those who are claiming Apple added the cage just to make life difficult need to step away from the keyboard for a while. I have opened a few Macs over the years, and they do not have extraneous stuff inside them. Whatever Apple's faults, they take their engineering efficiency seriously.

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Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm almost positive they can't refuse that service (i.e., it's illegal) unless the problem needing repair is verifiably a result of the third party component(s).

That will depend on which country you are in.

 

[comptr]

I called a Local Apple Service Provider who is an Apple Premium Partner, they told me if I bought the mac from them they would install the ram if I bought it from them too. Looking at the Invoice they sent me they are not charging for the ram install just the computer and the cost of the ram.

 

[PianoPro]

When they mentioned SO-DIMMs on stage, I thought that was a wink wink to the upgrade crowd, even if they weren't going to say they officially supported that or support one with third party RAM in it, but they kept it a bit of a PITA to upgrade, and the in-store upgrades offered are even less cost effective than direct purchase upgrades with the redundant buying.

I think it absolutely was a "wink-wink" to the "enthusiasts and upgrade crowd". I've been designing (and also spent some time marketing) electronic products for large companies since the 1970's and this smacks as a classic situation to me.

Business Management wants to maximize profit, which is aided by the majority of consumers buying products factory-configured with over-priced RAM, and the vast majority of those consumers will never upgrade it again. At the other end of the spectrum are professionals and businesses that will buy as much RAM as they anticipate they will ever need (given the limited range of options available in this type of product) and they will seldom upgrade (and you can see the really large Apple tax starts at 32 GB where Apple probably figures it won't chase away average consumers, but will rake in extra profit from this segment). When you get to state-of-the-art Pro products another dynamic takes over, where pricing differential becomes so enormous for individual customer needs that it once again becomes both profitable and an essential sales feature to offer upgradability by one means or another.

So Apple doesn't want to make it easy for those segments to upgrade the RAM. It won't likely chase either segment away if it isn't upgradable, and the lack of upgradability may actually encourage some people to buy more RAM initially. And the manufacturing cost, and subsequent loss of profit, to socket the RAM is significant (which is why they won't do it anymore in any of their higher volume consumer products). At these volumes that added cost almost certainly exceeds the potential inventory savings of having fewer motherboard variations to manage.

So why did they socket the RAM? My guess - because the marketing guys won this one. Apple gets a bad reputation with enthusiasts that are compulsive upgraders, realize they are getting gauged by the prices, and can be rather vocal in their criticism. The Mac-mini appeals to a larger segment of those enthusiasts than would a MBP or an iMac, where it's easy to ignore that kind of noise. And it's not uncommon for marketing people to argue with the business managers to take a slight hit in per unit profit to make vocal customers happy because they don't like critical reviews or bad word-of-mouth, and are driven by sales numbers more than margin.

So I'd guess that's what happened with the Mini in this case. It's not the 2012 easy to replace RAM to keep a too small vocal subset of customers happy for marketing, but it's not the 2014 business manager's "no-way in Hell we are taking a bottom line hit" for replaceable RAM on this even more consumer-ish Mini. It's the 2018 ok let them do it, but don't make it trivial or encourage it, so both of us win.

 

[galactic orange]

Sounds like you're doing something like orchestral mockups with heavy-duty sample libraries and a lot of tracks.

The need for lots of RAM for that kind of thing has existed for some time, but doesn't seem to have brought the price down to earth. It would be interesting to know what someone who understands the RAM market thinks about where the price for 64GB, or for that matter 128GB, will be in a year or two.

When I was looking into purchasing a Mac mini, I looked briefly at the price of 64GB and blanched

Orchestral tracks, absolutely right on there. The Mac Pro will likely be too much for my needs. The Mac Mini graphics and options are just right for me. Looking at, for example, the 2017 iMac you get comparable power with the same max 64GB RAM. The iMac has 4 slots for memory though, so 16GB x 4 will get you there much more cheaply. With just two slots in the Mac Mini the options are limited and pricey, making the Mini look relatively less appealing as an audio production box.

 

[ElectronGuru]

Great posts everyone

The install looks intricate but not difficult. Even fun! Certainly worth doing at some point. And it sounds like 64 gig kits should start getting affordable right around the time early adopter warranties are dropping off. Win win!

 

[yuhong]

Sounds like you're doing something like orchestral mockups with heavy-duty sample libraries and a lot of tracks.

The need for lots of RAM for that kind of thing has existed for some time, but doesn't seem to have brought the price down to earth. It would be interesting to know what someone who understands the RAM market thinks about where the price for 64GB, or for that matter 128GB, will be in a year or two.

When I was looking into purchasing a Mac mini, I looked briefly at the price of 64GB and blanched

Yea, the 16Gbit DDR4 chips are still very new.

 

[Ifti]

So if I were to upgrade the RAM myself, and keep the existing 8GB I removed, assuming I ever needed to the the system back to Apple for another repair, I could pop the 8GB original RAM back in and still maintain warranty?
There didn't seem to be any seals etc that are broken throughout the process?

 

[marc_b]

So if I were to upgrade the RAM myself, and keep the existing 8GB I removed, assuming I ever needed to the the system back to Apple for another repair, I could pop the 8GB original RAM back in and still maintain warranty?
There didn't seem to be any seals etc that are broken throughout the process?

Yup, easy enough.

 

[Ifti]

Seems like a decent upgrade:
https://www.amazon.com/CORSAIR-Veng...pID=41ijXgLccfL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

 

[opeter]

Teardown videos are comming...

EDIT: ah, it was already posted.
[doublepost=1541679905][/doublepost]

2) The i7-8700B and i5-8500B have a 2.666GHz RAM clock, but the i3-8100 has a 2.4GHz RAM clock

You are right. The i3-8100 has a RAM speed limit.
https://ark.intel.com/products/126688/Intel-Core-i3-8100-Processor-6M-Cache-3-60-GHz-

 

[LancesUK]

Orchestral tracks, absolutely right on there. The Mac Pro will likely be too much for my needs. The Mac Mini graphics and options are just right for me. Looking at, for example, the 2017 iMac you get comparable power with the same max 64GB RAM. The iMac has 4 slots for memory though, so 16GB x 4 will get you there much more cheaply. With just two slots in the Mac Mini the options are limited and pricey, making the Mini look relatively less appealing as an audio production box.

Honestly, I think you will be fine with 32GB. I also use a mini for music production, and never really hit the ceiling with 16GB... I tend to bounce my midi tracks so they won’t tax both the CPU and memory unnecessarily, and maybe you can do the same if you ever hit that ceiling. As you’ve been getting by fine with the good old 2012 mini, I believe the new model will give you lots of headroom regardless of having 32GB or 64GB of RAM...

Just always remember not to leave Chrome tabs opened, other programs running in the backgroung etc. These eat up a lot of RAM...

 

[brentsg]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm almost positive they can't refuse that service (i.e., it's illegal) unless the problem needing repair is verifiably a result of the third party component(s).
[doublepost=1541650507][/doublepost]

So if I were to upgrade the RAM myself, and keep the existing 8GB I removed, assuming I ever needed to the the system back to Apple for another repair, I could pop the 8GB original RAM back in and still maintain warranty?
There didn't seem to be any seals etc that are broken throughout the process?

They can’t require this in the USA.

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/blogs/business-blog/2018/04/ftc-staff-sends-warranty-warnings

They may try to turn someone away due to third party RAM, but it is illegal. Filing an FTC complaint would straighten it out very quickly. (USA of course)

Those security seals mentioned above are also illegal when it pertains to warranties. Companies like EVGA still use them to indicate that the product requires a more thorough testing procedure, and that is fine.

 

[F-Train]

I'm well aware of what heat shields on motorcycle exhausts are, and their purpose. I don't need to look anything up.

If you know what you're talking about, sound like it. Don't say that something isn't a heat shield because it isn't in contact with the heat source. Because that is just wrong.
[doublepost=1541687995][/doublepost]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm almost positive they can't refuse that service (i.e., it's illegal) unless the problem needing repair is verifiably a result of the third party component(s).

When you take your Mac mini to Apple or an Apple Service Provider because it isn't working, you have two options:

1. put the original RAM back in the mini;
2. get into a debate over what's legal and what isn't.

Take your pick.

 

[syvalley]

Seems like a decent upgrade:
https://www.amazon.com/CORSAIR-Veng...pID=41ijXgLccfL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

Why not this: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B071H38422/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Fishrrman]

I'm sure there are at least a few folks here who may actually -need- 32gb or 64gb of RAM, rather than just have it in there "for bragging rights".

I'm not one of them. I believe 16gb will be "all I need" for the life of a 2018 Mini, and I could probably get by with just 8.

However, the cost of the RAM + the 3 tools to do the job will be only a few $$$ less than spending $180 at purchase time to buy the RAM factory-installed (veteran's discount here). And no hassle putting it in.

Having said that...
Looks to me like the primary reason they put "a cage around the RAM" is to ensure that the logic board must first be removed to gain proper access to swap it out.
Because of the DIMM slot location on the motherboard, they don't want anyone trying to pull it out with only the back plate removed, which could damage the slots.

 

[IG88]

If you know what you're talking about, sound like it. Don't say that something isn't a heat shield because it isn't in contact with the heat source. Because that is just wrong.

Go back and read what I actually said. You apparently don't understand the difference between heat dissipation and heat shielding. In the case of the Mini, that cage is neither.

 

[galactic orange]

Honestly, I think you will be fine with 32GB. I also use a mini for music production, and never really hit the ceiling with 16GB... I tend to bounce my midi tracks so they won’t tax both the CPU and memory unnecessarily, and maybe you can do the same if you ever hit that ceiling. As you’ve been getting by fine with the good old 2012 mini, I believe the new model will give you lots of headroom regardless of having 32GB or 64GB of RAM...

Just always remember not to leave Chrome tabs opened, other programs running in the backgroung etc. These eat up a lot of RAM...

I went ahead and ordered 32GB third-party RAM and so I’ll see how it goes after installing. You’re probably right about it being enough. The jump from 16GB to 32GB opens up a lot of “breathing room” for DAW music production. I probably won’t use all of it all of the time, but will likely go over 16GB often. 32GB also makes the amount of memory used by the OS relatively smaller; just a small fraction of 32GB.

I have yet to place an order for a new Mini because I’m still considering the benefits of the 512GB vs. 1TB SSD in the long term. Thoughts?

 

[thoang77]

I have yet to place an order for a new Mini because I’m still considering the benefits of the 512GB vs. 1TB SSD in the long term. Thoughts?

It's a $400 difference, which would get you a 2TB Samsung T5, almost a 1TB Samsung X5, or a 1TB OWC TB3 SSD. Despite all that, I elected for a 1TB since I love that insane 2600mb speed all in one place and it's one less item cluttering up my workspace (and free's up a port for my bevy of other external drives)

 

[Zdigital2015]

Does the RAM need to be exactly 2666Mt/s? Can I use a 2400Mt/s module?

I would recommend sticking with DDR4-2666 as the EFI is probably going to reject those when the mini POSTs. You can probably get away with a faster module, but almost always NEVER a slower module.
[doublepost=1541694804][/doublepost]

I went ahead and ordered 32GB third-party RAM and so I’ll see how it goes after installing. You’re probably right about it being enough. The jump from 16GB to 32GB opens up a lot of “breathing room” for DAW music production. I probably won’t use all of it all of the time, but will likely go over 16GB often. 32GB also makes the amount of memory used by the OS relatively smaller; just a small fraction of 32GB.

I have yet to place an order for a new Mini because I’m still considering the benefits of the 512GB vs. 1TB SSD in the long term. Thoughts?

MY use case has almost always ended up that I never filled the 512GB on my personal 2012 15” MacBook Pro, but my work 2015 15” MacBook Pro with 1TB has about 600GB in that drive and it is surely has junk that could be deleted. Unless you absolutely have to have that much internal storage, the 512GB is probably more than sufficient. Remember to keep at least 7-10% free just for piece of mind as SSDs do not like to get completely filled up, even Apple’s will respond negatively. Saw it on a coworkers 1TB filled to the brim and weird things started happening. Deleted about a 120GB and all was well again.

Again, for ME, the two BTO options that provide the best long term worth are the Core i7 and the 512GB SSD upgrades to the $1099 USD model. You can always add 10GbE via TB3 down the road if you really need it. Not as cheap, but save $100 now. You can add your own DRAM at a cheaper cost than Apple sells it and so why pay them extra? Especially if you need 32GB as it is the worst value, period.

 

[askunk]

https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Mac+mini+Late+2018+Memory+Replacement/115309

 

[ElectronGuru]

https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Mac+mini+Late+2018+Memory+Replacement/115309

“Thanks to those who uploaded content to this thread on the macrumours forum. Some of which I have re-used here in this guide.”

We’re famous!

 

[Victor Mortimer]

Summary of what we know :

What you are "allowed to do"

Apple do not consider the RAM user upgradeable and doing so will void your warranty (if they find out).
Multiple people have contacted support staff who confirm the warranty void part
You can however take your machine to an Apple store or authorised re seller and they can upgrade the RAM for you in the future without voiding warranty.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205041#one


What is technically possible

It is technically possible to upgrade the ram yourself. This requires :
Removing the bottom case hatch with T6 driver
Remove the fan assembly
Remove the motherboard
Remove the RAM Cage

What we definitely know about the law

Voiding your warranty because you upgraded the RAM yourself is illegal in the United States. The FTC has previously cautioned Apple about making misleading statements like this. The Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act makes this behavior illegal.
You DO NOT have to use Apple branded or supplied RAM to retain your warranty. The only way Apple can require you to use Apple branded or supplied RAM to retain your warranty would be if Apple provided the RAM upgrade and installation labor for free.
Apple does not have to provide a warranty on RAM that they do not supply, and they can void your warranty if you damage your Mac mini while installing third party RAM, or if defective third party RAM damages your computer.
If Apple claims to have voided your warranty because you installed or had someone else install third party RAM, and that RAM did not damage some other part of your computer, you have the right to sue Apple, and you have the right to collect reasonable damages AND reasonable costs of the suit including attorney fees from Apple.


Seriously, Apple can't void your warranty in the US because you or a non-authorized service provider upgraded the RAM, unless you or that service provider damages the computer by doing so. You do not have to buy or use RAM purchased from Apple for those legal protections to apply.

 

[Nicholas1490]

So didn't get an answer to this... Do you guys know if lower frequency ram will work? Ordered 2400mhz by accident

I would also like to know if this is possible. Please assist.

 

[yuhong]

I would also like to know if this is possible. Please assist.

It generally should work.

 

[archer75]

I would also like to know if this is possible. Please assist.

It will work. But don't. Just get the correct speed.