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I am in the market for a new MacBook, and I feel so torn. It's hard to believe laptops from 2013 are a viable option, but it certainly seems that way. I guess there is no way to know when Apple may release an updated MacBook Pro, but its hard not to feel like a sucker if I buy the new Touch Bar model, when there is potentially a new improved model just around the corner.

What do people think, is this new MacBook Pro a lemon in a long line of excellent MBP's?

I highly doubt you'll see a new model before the fall.

If you need a new laptop now and have the means, then pick one up. If you don't need it or its outside your price range, then hold off. But you get a 14 day window to try it out and form your own opinion. Don't try and listen to the crowd on this one. There are plenty of people that like it and plenty more that don't. It's completely subjective and the only way you're going to know which side you come down on is to give it a go.
 
I have a co-worker all about apple but because the the specs he bought a Dell. I don't down on Dell but after using Dell at work again because I am required, I dislike it. I would love to work on my personal Macbook Pro than this garbage. Even while working with an external monitor, I'll still choose to work on the Macbook 15" screen.
 
Is it possible to run Mac OS on other laptop?...

You can run a "hackintosh" however, the new dell xps 15" has a completely incompatible wifi card which would have to be replaced. I took a look at all of that when I had one. So, in short: yes on some machines. On a new XPS: no.
 
The internet certainly welcomes critics and as someone else pointed out, happy owners are far less likely to post. Thus you end up with a very slanted view.

Luckily for me, I work in LA in a business that upgrades tech VERY fast, so most of my friends and associates are using the new machines already. Not only are there no complaints, but...get ready....no one even CARES about the new machines. They just bought them, adjusted a little and got to work.

All the internet fuss is mostly just that; fuss. The battery is fine. The processor is quick. The screen, speakers, keyboard, trackpad, form factor and overall versatility...all upgraded.

If you change ONE thing on a long standing product, there are always going to be some negative reactions. In this case, Apple changed a ton of things.

So is it a dud? LOL. Nope. It's a very nice laptop. I currently own the 13 and 15" models and they operate beautifully. Does that make it the perfect solution for everyone? Nope. Not at all. I agree with others that these are the best ever from Apple, but two years from now they'll likely be even better and I look forward to that.


R.
 
This is a polarizing subject partly because it is so subjective, and IMO is sometimes enough to turn MacRumors into a contact sport. I'm neither a pure Apple loyalist nor a pure Apple hater. But I do recognize that we are talking about the Ferrari of laptops...the MacBook Pro has become the golden standard here. The reality is that when a product is the benchmark of its respective class, it's going to be analyzed (both positively and negatively) in a scrutinizing way that other products in the same class might not be. Admittedly, I expect Apple to produce products that are both futuristic and currently functional - but this can create its own internal conflict.
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For example, I've been in situations where not having a USB-A port and not having an adapter on me has been quite frustrating. For example, I needed to take a file off a flash drive that was USB-A that someone gave to me while out. I had to find a computer with USB-A, sign in to DropBox, upload the file to my DropBox account, connect the MBP to my cell phone, and download the file from DropBox. Bad planning on my part or not, it was an inconvenience that my older MBP, MBA, and SP3 would not have suffered from, so I can see why this computer doesn't suit everyone's current needs.

On the other hand, the choice to embrace USB-C is understandable, promising a versatile port with considerable capability, and the choice to also embrace TB3 means those with USB interference problems have another option (no differently than with the 2012-2015 model's TB2). In certain regards, the new MacBook Pro renders all iPhones, iPads, and previous MacBook Pros all legacy devices - it could even render the iPhone 8 a legacy device upon release!!! The superiority of USB-C will certainly begin to shine more over time, although we could still be a few years out (one example could be when either a new SATA revision comes about, PCIe storage drops in pricing, or a new affordable interface superior to SATA6 is released, to allow external storage of higher speeds for more practical pricing without needing a RAID0 SATA setup - another could be when more monitor Makers begin adopting USB-C more rapidly, or the eGPU gains momentum.)

The industrial design is spectacular, the speakers are great (if you use them...I usually don't), and when outside I see a considerable difference in the legibility of the screen. The iGPU in the 2016 13-inch NTB is comparable to the dGPU in the 2014 15-inch, and the ability to find the NTB model for prices well below MSRP have been nice. I don't think the system is a good value at $1,499 at a time when most Makers are releasing less expensive devices - I think it is an outstanding value at $1,150-1,250 - that's my personal opinion. The SSD kicks ass. It might kick even more ass when APFS is released. The form factor is nice...I think the size shrink has especially made the portability of the 15-inch model more practical, and many MB Air owners seem very satisfied with the 13-inch.

The somewhat rocky start did not help. The perceptions about battery have remained, and some Users of the 13-inch touchbar model still aren't super satisfied with their system's battery life (although most owners I have spoken to, even those unhappy with the battery, are happy with the computer as a whole.) Those transitioning from the MacBook Air to the 13-inch without touchbar seem somewhat more satisfied with battery. I'm satisfied overall. Apple has, in my opinion, shown incredible commitment to this platform and fixing many of those annoying quirks. Compared to the 2012 retina release, I think this model has had more annoyances and individual QC problems, but fewer fatal flaws (however, the seemingly more frequent QC defects could be related to greater sales volume or more usage of the internet as a whole!) For example, the image retention problem with the 2012 retina was one that no software update corrected and some people exchanged a bad model for another bad one, and the screen flicker stemming from the wifi antenna could also be hugely annoying.

While the data recovery aspect has been complicated through the 13TB/15 NAND soldering, the disposability of the computer hasn't really increased all that much IMO. The disposability factor took a massive leap in 2012 with the soldered RAM and glued battery, and another jump in 2013 with the non-standard PCIe SSD--which, while slightly easier to upgrade than the soldered NAND seen with the 13 and 15 TB models, it isn't that much of a leap going from hard as heck to upgrade to virtually impossible. The reality is that electronic Makers in general are shortening the service life of their consumer devices at baseline tiers, and Apple is one of the many doing this (it's also fully within their right to make this decision, and is, from a business perspective, smart as hell.)

Presumably, the next generation will make some incremental improvements. I could see: enhancements to durability/feedback of the keyboard, further enhancements in palm rejection, battery improvements, greater durability to the electrical plating, and of course the normal spec increases. I could be completely wrong tho, as I'm not psychic.

So, would I call it a dud? No. I wouldn't call it perfect either (which mass-made product ever is?) But I think it's a good overall system (which comes at a time when Windows devices are more competitive than ever - but that doesn't detract from the quality of the MBP as it only increases selection options.) How much you like it compared to what came before it may depend on how you use it. If there are certain aspects of it you really like, you might as well try it - if you hate it, you've got two weeks to return it?
 
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How funny it will be when the next MacBook Pro has USB-D and Thunderbolt 4 ports, and there was never no industry shift, just a continually landsliding landscape. Look at actual thunderbolt, the whole industry has only just caught up, and now the rug is pulled from under our feet and the cable and dongles must be changed.

Its fine though, I appreciate everyone's thoughts. Its good to hear the machine is working out for many. I just want Apple to be accountable. I want them to pull up the slack and go the extra mile to deliver the Best, that's what we know them for.

I think I can wait. I'm about a 2/3 of the way saving for it. So will wait for wwdc for any potential news. I actually only hope for improvement on the keys and trackpad.

And yes in regards to someone else's comment I did clearly sense sluggishness from the trackpad. Missed clicks, slow clicks, accidental input. That's what I mean't. This was never a problem in previous trackpads.
 
How funny it will be when the next MacBook Pro has USB-D and Thunderbolt 4 ports, and there was never no industry shift, just a continually landsliding landscape. Look at actual thunderbolt, the whole industry has only just caught up, and now the rug is pulled from under our feet and the cable and dongles must be changed.


It seems that you misunderstand what is happening right now. USB-C is not some new favour-of-the month "cable and connector" that must be changed. Its the new industry standard USB port. The previous standard port, USB-A — was introduced over 20 years ago and has since supported a large number of ever evolving protocols — from the original USB 1.0 speeds of 1.5 Mb/s to the USB 3.1 Gen2 10 Gb/s. The USB-C was introduced so that you never need dongles again, at least when the standard has been fully implemented by the (very slow) industry. But it has hit its limit. It is too large and not flexible enough. And of course this connector will support the evolving protocols, be it USB 4+ or Thunderbolt4+ or HDMI next or whatnot, its specifically designed to be future-proof. Specifically, USB-C is designed to be hardware-configurable (as in — it supports arbitrary high-speed connection protocols, you can literally use USB-C connection to send anything, providing the signal bandwidth is sufficient). So don't worry, there will be no "USB-D", at least not in foreseeable future (and if it is, its going to be a specialised connector just like USB-B or USB-micro/mini were). There will be new cables, sure, just like USB3.0 requires different cables from USB 2.0. But the thing is that all USB cables are backwards-compatible! You only can't use newer features with older cables.

And btw, Thunderbolt never "caught up" simply because it started as an expensive pro-level interface and the majority of customers don't need it. The use for Thunderbolt was primarily fast external connectivity for creative professionals and others who need super-fast, low-latency external storage. Now other applications are becoming viable, such as external GPUs, but it will take time until the protocol is utilised to its full potential.
 
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Just keep in mind the support of other companies if you buy a PC. Buy one that you can inspect first hand. the XPS series is a nightmare with backlight bleed, LCD panels not centered in the bezel, driver issues, etc. But I keep buying them (and precision 5520s) because there's nothing better yet :(
 
This has got to be most polarizing generation of MacBooks in history. Based on my short time, I just can't stand that keyboard. I think for Rev b, then should go back to the old chassis, keyboard, trackpad and keep the USB-C ports just to save face.

What Apple could have done is take the 2015 model, update the internals, and add a USB Type-C port.
 
It's hard to believe laptops from 2013 are a viable option

I think that a 4 year old laptop is still viable attests to the stagnation in advances in processor power more than anything else. Also SSDs are a game changer. With a large SSD my mid-2012 is still a viable workhorse and the main reason I upgraded was because I wanted a 5K monitor. If I could run a 5K or even a 4K monitor on my mid-2012 Unibody, I probably would have waited things out for at least another year.

What do people think, is this new MacBook Pro a lemon in a long line of excellent MBP's?

I have no deal breaker complaints about the laptop itself really. It's an excellent laptop. It's just expensive if you need more than the stock 512GB of storage. The battery life is good despite what you may have heard.

The Touch Bar is ok. It's not useless, but I'm not sure if I'd voluntarily elect to have it over the physical keys it replaced. I'm annoyed to have lost my ESC key, but I'm dealing with it.
 
To me the Touch Bar MacBook Pro was like an enterprise bargaining agreement between the employer employee, and the employee lost big time.

I read somewhere Schiller saying they wanted to change things up big time, rather than just do an incremental upgrade. But it seems they viciously removed features that were loved and tried and true for years.

Their biggest mistake, I think was offering the stock Retina without a dGPU. Why didn't they update that? Because they wanted to force the Touch Bar. And that's fine. They just didn't give us any breathing space at all. And I think they knew deep down, if they had offered a dGPU 2016 it would have flown out the window in comparison to Touch Bar sales.

Its the refurbished pricepoints that actually have me looking at this machine properly for the first time, which to me are much more reasonable prices for a laptop of this kind.

I honestly don't see Apple going back on anything, and don't think we'll ever see USB-A or SD slots on their machines ever again. It's annoying because the camera market adjusted also - my cameras don't actually have any physical connection from camera to computer - you're supposed to put the card in direct.

Anyway, I don't doubt for a second Apples robustness in terms of physical and software design when compared to PC. But this is the hardest pill to swallow from them in a long time.
 
The new MBPs look great. I decided to hold off buying one and stick with my late 2011 15" MBP (Old reliable). I just don't get why they decided to not even put just one USB 3 and HDMI (even a tiny micro-sd slot). It just happens that alot of people still need to use these peripherals as they travel. Getting rid of them completely on a desktop makes sense. Who cares if you have a few dongles or a HUB laying behind your computer. Just seems kind of annoying to have to carry around and keep track of them. Just a small gripe. Don't get me wrong, if you wanted to trade me a new one for my 2011, I would gladly accept :)
 
How funny it will be when the next MacBook Pro has USB-D and Thunderbolt 4 ports, and there was never no industry shift, just a continually landsliding landscape. Look at actual thunderbolt, the whole industry has only just caught up, and now the rug is pulled from under our feet and the cable and dongles must be changed.

If this is a concern, I wouldn't worry about it. USB-C, especially when coupled with the 3.1 gen 2 standard for large data transfers, is arguably going to become one of the most significant tech advancements in recent time. It has way too many good things going for it, and most of the drawbacks can be addressed without modifying the physical port itself.

USB-C is going to become the dominant market standard for the foreseeable future. It's not a question of if...it's when. I believe the change will be slower than others anticipate, but I have no doubt it will happen. As a means of reducing waste, some countries have even considered enacting laws to implement mandates to force Makers of certain portable devices to pick a universal standard and to stick with it. USB-C is the only logical choice here: it addresses many of the shortcomings of USB-A and its mini & micro derivatives that were apparent from the very beginning (and went unaddressed for over a decade.) The way Apple adopted USB-C may be inconvenient for some (and the crappy USB-C products from some unscrupulous Makers are pretty scary), but USB-C is going to eventually make life easier and isn't going to be replaced any time soon. Mobile devices (including phones and tablets) that do not incorporate USB-C will be inferior from the start & a slap in the face to consumers because something many times better* exists. If Apple continues to use Lightning (which I highly doubt they will since Apple realizes USB-C is superior in every way to Lightning), it will be the most comical implementation of new legacy technology in history.

Thunderbolt 3 may or may not have major success. A high cost of TB devices, and a possible AMD resurgence, coupled with the fact that USB-C 3.1 gen 2 can deliver the performance that most people need at a fraction of the price, means the new Thunderbolt may continue to be something largely limited to a small group of power Users. The average consumer probably doesn't need an external GPU, a RAID 0 setup comprised of 4+ SSDs, or multiple PCIe cards.
 
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Well, for me, I have at least 5 years to see what Apple does with this new generation. I do hope they take some of the advice they applying to the Mac Pro and back track a bit. The butterfly keyboard is the first that should go and reintroduce a realistic set of ports. Dongles is just a knuckle head implementation. 2 USB C, 2 USB A, SD Card, larger battery, smaller track pad, Touch bar optional or in addition to physical function keys, take off $1000.
 
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The new MBPs look great.
I will say that the design is gorgeous, though I wished they retained the glowing apple and the start up sound, but I guess I'm old school in that sense :)

Touch bar optional or in addition to physical function keys
I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I use the function keys every day and while the touch bar displays them, I'd rather have physical keys so I can depress the keys as I work without stopping and looking
 
I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I use the function keys every day and while the touch bar displays them, I'd rather have physical keys so I can depress the keys as I work without stopping and looking

What software do you use? AFAIK, function keys have been an outsider in Cocoa guidelines for very long time. I am not aware of any OS X style app that would use them.
 
Touchbar is the first body update since 2012 for 15 and 2013 for 13. Unlikely a new update is 'just around the corner'.
 
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Their biggest mistake, I think was offering the stock Retina without a dGPU. Why didn't they update that? Because they wanted to force the Touch Bar. And that's fine. They just didn't give us any breathing space at all. And I think they knew deep down, if they had offered a dGPU 2016 it would have flown out the window in comparison to Touch Bar sales.

Its Apple's common practice to keep an old machine for a discounted price for people who don't want or can't afford their latest hardware. They did it when they introduced the first retina model, they do it with iPhones and they also do it now. I don't really see why its supposed to be a mistake — its what it is — a discounted entry into Apple ecosystem using previous tech revision. There is nothing illogical about it.
 
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Touchbar is the first body update since 2012 for 15 and 2013 for 13. Unlikely a new update is 'just around the corner'.

I guess its possible to hope for keyboard and trackpad improvements within that same chasis design, just as they introduced the Force Trackpad without any major design overhaul.

Its Apple's common practice to keep an old machine for a discounted price for people who don't want or can't afford their latest hardware. They did it when they introduced the first retina model, they do it with iPhones and they also do it now. I don't really see why its supposed to be a mistake — its what it is — a discounted entry into Apple ecosystem using previous tech revision. There is nothing illogical about it.

While that is a fair call, the waters are somewhat murkier with the 15 inch, all thanks to its dGPU. At least in my opinion. They offer 1 model of 13" without TouchBar, and 2 further models at the 13" size - all of these are new models.

But the Retina 15" is untouched, old tech. Then, we get 3 models of dGPU's across TouchBar models of 15" MBP's. Why not slot a 450 into the Retina, as an option? If they did I would have bought it.
 
I guess its possible to hope for keyboard
I'm not sure there's enough time to between the fall of 2016 and 2017 to roll out a third generation of the butterfly keyboard, but I what I do hope for, is perhaps a tweaking of the existing keyboard to make it more durable.
 
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I guess its possible to hope for keyboard and trackpad improvements within that same chasis design, just as they introduced the Force Trackpad without any major design overhaul.

There will of course be incremental updates but the keyboard will ultimately stay flat and low-travel. Trackpad is already very good, don't know how it can be improved even further. Maybe Apple pen support would be useful.
 
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