Is the new MacBook Pro a dud?

[seadragon]

In my mind, yes, it's a dud.

I was all set to buy the new MBP but then started hearing about all the problems with them. The keyboards are failing and they're installing shims? Doesn't inspire confidence. It sounds like the keyboard is still in beta testing (by the public) and Apple is still trying to figure out what the problem is. And it appears that the battery is something apple settled for on this release since they couldn't get the terraced battery ready in time.

Yes, people experiencing problems tend to post on forums. But, I would submit that there are also many more people that experience problems that never post on forums, making that argument moot. It may be their best selling laptop to date, but what about the return/repair rates? Are those published or taken into account?

Oh, and I also agree with maflynn... they should have kept the glowing logo. It was a unique feature to Apple and visibly set the MBP apart from others. I was at an airport lounge recently and there were several older MBPs with the glowing logo. Then there was a guy using one of the new ones. It looked just dull in comparison, like just any other laptop. I was shaking my head thinking it's too bad they got rid of it.

Waiting for the next round.

 

[JMacHack]

and HDMI

Considering they wanted to push TB3 displays, I don't think there was a snowball's chance in hell of this happening.

 

[Fishrrman]

I wouldn't call the new MBPro a "dud", but... it wasn't "what I wanted".

I wanted ports that worked with the stuff I have -now- and a keyboard that was easy for me to type on.

I tried the 2016 MBPro.
And then bought a new 2015 model instead.

 

[maflynn]

Considering they wanted to push TB3 displays, I don't think there was a snowball's chance in hell of this happening.

Yeah, I think we'll not see "new" ports but have to adjust to the fact that we'll need dongles.

 

[JMacHack]

Yeah, I think we'll not see "new" ports but have to adjust to the fact that we'll need dongles.

For the time being, yeah. I have zero doubts that USB-C is the future though.

 

[maflynn]

For the time being, yeah. I have zero doubts that USB-C is the future though.

No, that's not my qualm. I agree USB-C is the future, and I can understand apple removing the TB2 and USB-1 ports. HDMI and the SD card slot are active non-deprecated ports that Apple dropped and while not a huge issue, it is a nagging one that annoyed me

 

[Samuelsan2001]

Yeah, I think we'll not see "new" ports but have to adjust to the fact that we'll need dongles.

Its not like you didn't have to have cables and dongles to connect to multiple different things already mini display port display port, VGA and HDMI that's just for video for pity's sake. As USB C goes mainstream it'll be on TVs instead of HDMI and projectors instead of VGA and just about everything, eventually you'll be glad of all usb-c. Apple are forcing the issue and it needed someone big to do it Microsoft could have done it but they love legacy rubbish, Samsung should have done it but third world sales ruled them out it had to be apple or dell really.
It was developed using the whole industry and is set to be the connection standard for all devices for 20 years so enjoy your cutting edge tech and stop whining about a few dollars on new cables.

 

[jerryk]

I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I use the function keys every day and while the touch bar displays them, I'd rather have physical keys so I can depress the keys as I work without stopping and looking

Plenty of other people use the function keys. Many text editors (vi, vim, emacs, etc.) make heavy use of the escape key. And F1-F10 are used in a lot of products. Reaching for the mouse or looking down at the touch bar just messes with your workflow in many situations. FWIW, the big quant firms have threaten to take away the mouse of their new hires to make them faster on the keyboards creating those massive spreadsheets.

 

[iRabbit]

No, that's not my qualm. I agree USB-C is the future, and I can understand apple removing the TB2 and USB-1 ports. HDMI and the SD card slot are active non-deprecated ports that Apple dropped and while not a huge issue, it is a nagging one that annoyed me

Them removing the SD card slot was actually my biggest complaint, because that cannot be replaced by a USB-C port. Yes, I bought a dongle, but I'll never be able to plug an SD card into a USB-C port, and camera manufacturers are never going to make a storage medium that does plug directly into a USB-C port.
It's the future, but USB-C can't replace everything.

That said, I got an SD card dongle for literally $11, so I'll survive. I just don't think Apple thought that one out.

 

[leman]

Plenty of other people use the function keys. Many text editors (vi, vim, emacs, etc.) make heavy use of the escape key.

I am working with some of those editors and I don't see a problem. There is a slight adaptation time but I can't say that my experience in finding the esc key has changed at all.

And F1-F10 are used in a lot of products.

What would be a OS X-style product that uses functional keys? Sure, some IDEs (most notably IntelliJ products) use Windows key mappings per default, but its not really following Cocoa UI guidelines.

 

[maflynn]

That said, I got an SD card dongle for literally $11, so I'll survive. I just don't think Apple thought that one out.

I agree, at the end of the day, its not a huge deal, but regardless, it does annoy me

 

[CaptRB]

Them removing the SD card slot was actually my biggest complaint, because that cannot be replaced by a USB-C port. Yes, I bought a dongle, but I'll never be able to plug an SD card into a USB-C port, and camera manufacturers are never going to make a storage medium that does plug directly into a USB-C port.
It's the future, but USB-C can't replace everything.

That said, I got an SD card dongle for literally $11, so I'll survive. I just don't think Apple thought that one out.

I agree. With the old SD slot you had a great option for adding storage. Not a deal-breaker, but a seriously silly move by Apple.


R.

 

[csurfr]

I am working with some of those editors and I don't see a problem. There is a slight adaptation time but I can't say that my experience in finding the esc key has changed at all.



What would be a OS X-style product that uses functional keys? Sure, some IDEs (most notably IntelliJ products) use Windows key mappings per default, but its not really following Cocoa UI guidelines.

Found one! I had to look really hard, and to be perfectly honest I have NEVER in all of my years using Adobe Illustrator used the shortcut keys listed below... and by they way, unless I missed one these are the ONLY three shortcuts in all of Illustrator that use fn keys. I'll keep my touch bar, thank you.

Also, I'm going to wager a guess that the Windows shortcuts are exactly the same. Sooo You're probably still right.

From Adobe.com
[doublepost=1493226770][/doublepost]

I agree, at the end of the day, its not a huge deal, but regardless, it does annoy me

I wonder if they could have kept the SD slot with the new form factor and opted not to because of aesthetics. Looking at my 15" from the side it seems like there might have been enough room... but if you remember the old Titanium G4's and the debacle of the cracking CD slot, maybe they didn't want to chance it.

 

[Queen6]

No longer using the MacBook Pro for my professional needs, so for my usage Apple has clearly got the mix wrong.

Q-6

 

[CaptRB]

No longer using the MacBook Pro for my professional needs, so for my usage Apple has clearly got the mix wrong.

Q-6

Can't make everyone happy with every release. Apple is out to make money and keep moving in a direction that suits a majority. They don't design speciality laptops and never have. They make high-end general purpose machines. I'd compare them to Rolex...not the best watch at all, but well known for overall good quality.


R

 

[MrGuder]

Can't make everyone happy with every release. Apple is out to make money and keep moving in a direction that suits a majority. They don't design speciality laptops and never have. They make high-end general purpose machines. I'd compare them to Rolex...not the best watch at all, but well known for overall good quality.


R

The only issue I have in general with Apple is that it takes them so long to keep their products up to date and using the latest technology that's out there especially with regard to this current Macbook Pro. There are current PC brands using the latest processors and hardwares in their laptops and Apple seems to be a little behind. I'm not sure if it's because Apple likes to perfect things before implementing them to the mass market (very thorough testing) or if it's just that Apple doesn't need to be on the cutting edge of technology, of course Apple is looking to make a profit on every product they produce (what company wouldn't).

What I'm trying to get at is Apple doesn't have any pressure to release the latest processors, they are not hurting for money. I mean wouldn't it be safe to say Apple is in a better position financially then say Dell who is almost begging you to make that sale on their latest laptop. So in that sense Apple can afford to wait and not offer the latest processors and higher ram than other PC makers who need to hit their sales #'s each quarter. I mean take for instance the iPhone and the Macs, it took a while for Apple to bump up the ram in their iPhones to 2 GB and then we have people who have been waiting for new Macs to be issued. It's not just the MBP that seems to have been left behind the past few years but other products as well. As I mentioned I don't know if it's just them sitting on their laurals for so long or that it does take time to perfect and test all this stuff before Apple is willing to release something to market.

With all that said, I do think that Apple's eyes have been opened recently on this 2016 MBP release that maybe they were not listening to what the customers really wanted and they will need to stay focused more on what the professional business customer needs and wants in the MBP. They are also going to have to look at their pricing structure, are the prices they are asking for on the 2016 MBP too high for the internals they are offering on this product? I personally feel the refurbished pricing we see now should have been where they started at retail on their website based on the internal hardware/battery they released.

 

[Gidjit-SmartLauncher]

Considering they wanted to push TB3 displays, I don't think there was a snowball's chance in hell of this happening.

Good point.

 

[BenTrovato]

Best Apple laptop I've ever owned. Not sure why people complain so much about it. It's fantastic.

 

[slingshott]

No, that's not my qualm. I agree USB-C is the future, and I can understand apple removing the TB2 and USB-1 ports. HDMI and the SD card slot are active non-deprecated ports that Apple dropped and while not a huge issue, it is a nagging one that annoyed me

It is an issue and it was totally ill-thought out. Just like Apple warned developers long before 32-bit apps were culled they should have told consumers that dongles eventually would be required, not just do it overnight.

 

[faust]

The butterfly switch is a Pro hostile design choice. The obsession with thinness is as abhorrent as how they neutered the Mac Pro line with its trash can aesthetic. There is no mistake, they will be altering the keyboard in favor of something more reasonable.

Another scenario of course is letting the Touch bar consume the keyboard in future generations.

 

[jackoatmon]

it's the best computer ever made

hands down

 

[leman]

The only issue I have in general with Apple is that it takes them so long to keep their products up to date and using the latest technology that's out there especially with regard to this current Macbook Pro. There are current PC brands using the latest processors and hardwares in their laptops and Apple seems to be a little behind.

Why "especially" with the current MacBook Pro? Kaby Lake CPUs have been available for not even three months now. When Apple released the new MBP in November, they used most recent CPUs and GPUs available (and the GPU is still the newest one that AMD can ship).

I agree that it would be nice to have Kaby Lake, but Appel had a non-trivial marketing situation to solve. They would need to either postpone the 2016 launch to Feb/March 2017 — and miss all the holiday sales, or refresh the 2016 model just few months after its initial release — which would piss off the customers who already bough the Skylake-based machine. Their actions in this context are fairly reasonable. An additional potential puzzle that we don't know about is the availability of the newer CPUs. Apple needs very high volumes — don't forget that they ship more high-performance laptops than any other vendor. I am fairly sure for instance that the reason why it tool Apple so long to upgrade the previous gen with Skylake was simply because they were waiting for mass availability of CPUs with Iris Pro graphics — which never happened. So I think they had to pull plan B as an emergency.

Back in the day, Apple used to do two releases per year, where one release would bring an incremental CPU update and another would often be more substantial. Then the CPU/GPU market slowed down and they moved to a yearly release. Maybe this year they will start with half-yearly releases again. In this case i'd expect a refresh to hit around late Mai/June. Or they skip Kaby Lake and go for the next gen in the autumn.
[doublepost=1493271697][/doublepost]

The butterfly switch is a Pro hostile design choice.

People can reportedly type faster with the new keyboard and the majority of customers evaluate it positively. Why is it a "Pro hostile" choice? Are Pros (whoever that is) only allowed to work with typewriters or what?

The obsession with thinness is as abhorrent

Yeah, this argument keeps popping up here and there but I still don't get it. Lets look at facts: you have same class hardware as well as same effective battery life, with upgraded internals and faster connectivity. I'd say that faster and lighter laptop is a very good thing to have. Apple is already using components with highest TDP available to them on the market — the 2016 MBP uses same-class hardware as any other MBP before it. While managing to be more mobile. If this is not Pro-friendly (give the maximum possible performance to the mobile user), then I don't know what is.

 

[Matt Leaf]

I think if they had done 4 Thunderbolt 4 ports, 1 USB-A on one side, and an SD slot on the other side, as well as all the other improvements, there would have been nothing but applause. People could live without HDMI I suppose, although it is very handy and is the current cabled video standard, but the tradeoff for everything else would have seemed worth it. As it stands what they gave for what they took away does not, in most consumers minds - given the price - equal a fair deal. To me that's where the problem lies. Anyway, I'm holding out for a week or three after WWDC and will make a call then I suppose. As it stands if there's no refresh I probably won't touch it and will pick up a maxed out 2015 dGPU Retina.

 

[faust]

Back in the day, Apple used to do two releases per year, where one release would bring an incremental CPU update and another would often be more substantial. Then the CPU/GPU market slowed down and they moved to a yearly release. Maybe this year they will start with half-yearly releases again. In this case i'd expect a refresh to hit around late Mai/June. Or they skip Kaby Lake and go for the next gen in the autumn.
[doublepost=1493271697][/doublepost]

People can reportedly type faster with the new keyboard and the majority of customers evaluate it positively. Why is it a "Pro hostile" choice? Are Pros (whoever that is) only allowed to work with typewriters or what?

I'm okay with low travel keyboards. Apple obviously likes them. There is a magnitude of difference between a typewriter, and the butterfly switch style. I'm advocating for something that retains the travel distance of the old 2015 Macbook Pro, with increased stability. Instead of fixing stability, they hobbled the keyboard entirely, making it an absolute pain to use for long typing sessions. I'm sure you can see how claiming I'm advocating for a typewriter is completely silly now. God bless you, child.

Yeah, this argument keeps popping up here and there but I still don't get it. Lets look at facts: you have same class hardware as well as same effective battery life, with upgraded internals and faster connectivity. I'd say that faster and lighter laptop is a very good thing to have. Apple is already using components with highest TDP available to them on the market — the 2016 MBP uses same-class hardware as any other MBP before it. While managing to be more mobile. If this is not Pro-friendly (give the maximum possible performance to the mobile user), then I don't know what is.

"Pro" designated products used to imply they were meant for professionals. Now, it's used to denote a Premium product. Take for example their limit for RAM on the top of the line 2016 MBP. It only goes up to 16 GB, which for some professionals is the bare minimum that's acceptable. These users were previously serviced by the Pro branded computers, prior to Apple losing their collective minds and alienating them. Another example, is the Mac Pro. Apple has come out and admitted they done screwed up with the trash can. So, don't be surprised to see Apple coming out and rectifying the butterfly switch keyboard's low travel distance, which for me, a Professional, is not usable for the duration I'd be required to tap on that hellish keyboard.

TBH, I would lose all faith in Apple right now, if I weren't such a die hard fan.

 

[leman]

Instead of fixing stability, they hobbled the keyboard entirely, making it an absolute pain to use for long typing sessions.

Just stop smashing those keys and you'll be fine. Better for your finger joints too. I am spending an entire day with that keyboard and its definitely better for my fingers than the old one. I used to have joint pain, now its almost disappeared.

"Pro" designated products used to imply they were meant for professionals.

And yet the new Macbook uses exactly the same class hardware as the old ones. If you need more RAM or multiple hard drives in the laptop or a high-end GPU, a MacBook Pro was never a right computer for the job. The MacBook Pro — since its old Powebook days, was always conceived as a thin and light business laptop that combined high CPU performance with high adaptability. Niche applications were never its strong point. So yes, if that is your line of criticism, then you should criticise the MBP as a concept, not the 2016 MBP (because frankly, in regards to this, it is not any different from any other MBP ever constructed).

And BTW, if we speak about "Pro" — show me another laptop that gives you as much external connectivity. You get not only fastest WiFi in class, but also the ability to connect multiply 4K monitors AND a bunch of external RAID storage units, without sacrificing performance or convenience.