Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Now, it's all about USB-C, but I can't find a single USB-C device, other than adapters, at any of my local computer shops.

With respect to the OP, there will always be complainers, but in this case the number of complaints is well founded. I don't think I've ever seen this before, at least not at this level.
You think those complaints are "well founded" - and you're of course entitled to your opinion, but you spend most of your post suggesting that you can't find "USB-C" devices and that having only USB-C ports is an issue because of that... when most people with a little knowledge understand that it's literally just a replacement cable or adapter away from working EXACTLY like it did with USB-A.

A USB-C port is already an "proven" and "accepted" technology. By saying otherwise is spreading FUD.

That USB-A printer you have? $10 replacement cable.
That USB-A external drive you have? $10 replacement cable.
That USB-A scanner you have? $10 replacement cable.
That USB-A Lightning cable you have? $10 replacement cable.
... name a USB device and with very few exceptions, it's a $10 replacement cable away. I'm even being generous with the $10... they're often not even that much.

It's like if you needed to use a DVI cable for an old monitor and expressed bewilderment that you needed a different cable to connect to your HDMI port. People would be, like, just get a new cable dude, and move on.

oh, p.s. - only the 13" ntMBP has only 2 TB3 ports... the 13" tMBP has 4 ports.

I'm an EE getting out of the apple system. 4+ years ago there was a trend towards EE tools becoming cross platform with OS X support. A lot of engineers started getting macbooks and using parallels for the bits that are still windows-only. Real cross platform support never materialized. It seems like the OS X versions are always buggy or some USB driver you need is still windows-only. I no longer believe there will ever be good cross platform support until all the tools we use move to browser based. Get a MacBook if you want to do iOS dev, otherwise it isn't worth it.
So because the specialized niche EE tools that you use aren't available for macOS, your conclusion is no one, other than iOS developers, should buy a Mac?
 
Last edited:
My quick tangent on MagSafe -- (and the conversation, as a whole, illustrates my original point of Mac users not wanting to put up with any crap ;) )

Discontinuing MagSafe means...

Losing:
- Quick connect
- Easy disconnect (best thing ever, IMO)
- LED indicator

Gaining:
- Power input not restricted to just one socket
- Cheaper, easily replaceable cable
- Can use different chargers and portable batteries
- Can [they say] charge one laptop with another
- Can still have MagSafe-style safety disconnect via a third-party gadget

I've been a huge MagSafe fan -- it's saved my bacon often enough -- but I think the change to USB-C charging is, on balance, a good move.

[/tangent]
If it saved your bacon often enough, good luck with the new one. Only a matter of time before you mauled all ports by yanking the cable and need a new logic board.
 
People are upset with the new MacBook Pro because of the lack of I/O ports other than USB-C. USB-C isn't a proven or well accepted technology yet...and it may not be. The last post by "Old Guy Tom" on Dec. 26, 2016 in the following thread:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/usb-c-huh.2022212/

I'm sorry to say this so bluntly, but his comment is just silly. First of all, there is no chance the USB-C "doesn't catch on", because there is no alternative in sight, literally. Unless you believe the industry doesn't like to make new things that people need to buy and is happy with the status quo. It's inevitable as faster CPUs or bigger drives. Not proven my ass.

Second, it is quite wrong to measure quality by quantity. The number of different ports is not an advantage in itself. The reason there were so many ports was the lack of unified standards - and it took decades to finally get to a point where everyone - from Apple and Google to Microsoft and Dell come to a single, universal port. I can attach a monitor to it, or a Wacom tablet or an external drive - and no, for those I don't need dongles or adapters. It's probably the greatest convenience in modern computing since the advent of SSD drives. And that "Old Guy Tom" is claiming having a dedicated power port, firewire and optical drive is somehow....

No. You know what, I'm not going to go into that again - I might as well try to convince a brick wall.

I don't get agitated when someone doesn't like the MBP, Apple, Surface, whatever product or company. I couldn't care less. I do get frustrated when people criticise progress. And why? Because new cables are hard. Because a dongle or two is hard. Because you probably used all types of ports on your first MBP - yes, it's a pro machine so you needed every single port available crammed in there. The only issue is they didn't include PS/2 and LPT1 ports too. And also, we suddenly need to listen to music while we charge our phones. God forbid we don't listen to music for an hour during the day.


OP, this is what Mac community has become. Same as every other, I guess. Basically, everything sucks.

BTW, not that you have reason to believe me, but if you're considering a Mac, get one, enjoy it, and stop reading these forums unless you're a masochist like me.
[doublepost=1482875278][/doublepost]
If it saved your bacon often enough, good luck with the new one. Only a matter of time before you mauled all ports by yanking the cable and need a new logic board.

Yes, it is absolutely inevitable. No way to prevent yanking a cable from an expensive device. No way whatsoever.

Come on! I liked the MagSafe. But I actually prefer the convenience of USB-C charging. More benefits than downsides.
[doublepost=1482875985][/doublepost]
You think those complaints are "well founded" - and you're of course entitled to your opinion, but you spend most of your post suggesting that you can't find "USB-C" devices and that having only USB-C ports is an issue because of that... when most people with a little knowledge understand that it's literally just a replacement cable or adapter away from working EXACTLY like it did with USB-A.

A USB-C port is already an "proven" and "accepted" technology. By saying otherwise is spreading FUD.

That USB-A printer you have? $10 replacement cable.
That USB-A external drive you have? $10 replacement cable.
That USB-A scanner you have? $10 replacement cable.
That USB-A Lightning cable you have? $10 replacement cable.
... name a USB device and with very few exceptions, it's a $10 replacement cable away. I'm even being generous with the $10... they're often not even that much.

It's quite obvious the real reason is not the ports, or the overblown battery situation. Think about it - there must've been products you didn't like? Did you ever see a product and think - man, I really don't like this? Sure you did.

Did you get the urge to enter the store or go online and yell how you don't like it? No, that sentiment is reserved for protests, social issues, things like that.

This.... all of this - is a combination of personal issues, coordinated spam or antagonism towards whatever symbolism one can see in Apple. Also, for YouTubers and Bloggers - a good way to get pageviews and likes and whatever. Serious users who happen to dislike/can't use/______ new MacBook Pros just didn't buy them. That's it!

It's kinda silly one has to defend ports. PORTS! You know, if news broke out that Apple refuses to sell MBPs to some minorities - I would understand the outrage. Or if they used toxic materials. But.... ports? And ports that are twice as fast, twice as small, reversable, probably compatible with even your toster.... This is not normal discourse.
 
Last edited:
If it saved your bacon often enough, good luck with the new one. Only a matter of time before you mauled all ports by yanking the cable and need a new logic board.

I don't need to quote where I mentioned you can get a MagSafe-like connector, do I?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Trixs
If it saved your bacon often enough, good luck with the new one. Only a matter of time before you mauled all ports by yanking the cable and need a new logic board.

USB-C ports reside on separate, replaceable boards. Surely it is possible to break these ports, but it fixing that is not a thousand dollar problem.
 
You think those complaints are "well founded" - and you're of course entitled to your opinion, but you spend most of your post suggesting that you can't find "USB-C" devices and that having only USB-C ports is an issue because of that... when most people with a little knowledge understand that it's literally just a replacement cable or adapter away from working EXACTLY like it did with USB-A.

A USB-C port is already an "proven" and "accepted" technology. By saying otherwise is spreading FUD.

That USB-A printer you have? $10 replacement cable.
That USB-A external drive you have? $10 replacement cable.
That USB-A scanner you have? $10 replacement cable.
That USB-A Lightning cable you have? $10 replacement cable.
... name a USB device and with very few exceptions, it's a $10 replacement cable away. I'm even being generous with the $10... they're often not even that much.

It's like if you needed to use a DVI cable for an old monitor and expressed bewilderment that you needed a different cable to connect to your HDMI port. People would be, like, just get a new cable dude, and move on.

oh, p.s. - only the 13" ntMBP has only 2 TB3 ports... the 13" tMBP has 4 ports.


So because the specialized niche EE tools that you use aren't available for macOS, your conclusion is no one, other than iOS developers, should buy a Mac?

OP is also an EE which is why I commented. The usb-c problem is real- what do people need it for besides large data transfers? Only video pros need to do that. How does usb-c benefit anybody else today? The latest EE tools are in usb3 with most debuggers still usb2, who knows when if ever they will be available in usb-c. Apple didn't release and doesn't support an external gpu, that would be the killer application for usb-c so where is it? Charging over usb-c isn't a feature its a regression. The magsafe-usb-c adapter sucks, you have to have a nub sticking out of your laptop all the time, it only fits one way, and doesn't have a light. Sure you can plug any older usb into usb-c by buying a different cable but it doesn't speed anything up or improve anything. I would wager most macbook pro users will replace all their cables but will never own any native usb-c equipment. Just like with thunderbolt-2, the "port of the future", all most people will use it for is to plug in adapters for all the omitted ports they need. I had a lot of money set aside for the new macbook but I'm blown away that they do not support external gpus or anything else that could improve my workflow. I ended up building a PC that obliterates any mac that ever existed for around $2000- a THIRD of the budget I expected to spend on apple stuff before the last soul crushing keynote.
 
The latest EE tools are in usb3 with most debuggers still usb2, who knows when if ever they will be available in usb-c.

USB 2.0, 3.0 and 3.1 are primarily signalling standards. On OS-visible USB protocol level these are backwards compatible.

USB Type-C is a connector type which allows any of the above to run through it. Although additional features are provided (such as alternate modes or signalling channel for power delivery), it doesn't really take any non-backward-compatible stance on protocol-level compatibility with USB 2.0, 3.0 or 3.1.

Most USB Type-C cables can carry USB 2.0 signal speeds, some 3.0 or 3.1 depending on their design. This can be compared with USB Type-A connector and Micro-B (SuperSpeed or not) connector; these are also just connector types, and don't unnecessarily affect speeds or USB protocol payloads transferred over them. Wiring and pins on connectors and cables may limit speeds to certain level (most typically, to USB 2.0 or lower), but this is by no means a necessity.

I can't see a scenario where "USB 2" or "USB 3" device couldn't be connected to a new MBP with USB Type-C receptacle by simply using an appropriately highly rated adapter cable (this is essentially equivalent situation to one with Type-A - Micro-B cables used with most cell phones), which is completely passive design for everything apart from SuperSpeed+, which requires active cabling anyway. From the perspective of both the host (MBP) and the device, this is equal to a connection without any extra adapter cable. If it's not, some component involved is not USB standards compliant... well, then all bets are off.
 
Last edited:
If you look back at the old releases, I think Apple had Mini HDMI once? The definitely had Mini Displayport which Steve himself said was an industry standard.

These dedicated ports need to go. How can anyone complain about USB-C? It does EVERYTHING. A single port. Video....Data....charging.
 
USB 2.0, 3.0 and 3.1 are primarily signalling standards. On OS-visible USB protocol level these are backwards compatible.

USB Type-C is a connector type which allows any of the above to run through it. Although additional features are provided (such as alternate modes or signalling channel for power delivery), it doesn't really take any non-backward-compatible stance on protocol-level compatibility with USB 2.0, 3.0 or 3.1.

Most USB Type-C cables can carry USB 2.0 signal speeds, some 3.0 or 3.1 depending on their design. This can be compared with USB Type-A connector and Micro-B (SuperSpeed or not) connector; these are also just connector types, and don't unnecessarily affect speeds or USB protocol payloads transferred over them. Wiring and pins on connectors and cables may limit speeds to certain level (most typically, to USB 2.0 or lower), but this is by no means a necessity.

I can't see a scenario where "USB 2" or "USB 3" device couldn't be connected to a new MBP with USB Type-C receptacle by simply using an appropriately highly rated adapter cable (this is essentially equivalent situation to one with Type-A - Micro-B cables used with most cell phones), which is completely passive design for everything apart from SuperSpeed+, which requires active cabling anyway. From the perspective of both the host (MBP) and the device, this is equal to a connection without any adapter cable. If it's not, some component involved is not USB standards compliant... well, then all bets are off.

Sure usb-c is great for backwards compatibility. I'm just thinking about how absurd it is for all these people to upgrade to this laptop and buy all new cables only to connect usb2 and usb3. We are just now seeing stuff released for usb3 when usb3 has been around for at least 6 years. I got my first usb3 device only last year when saleae released a usb3 logic analyzer. What happened to the computer I built in 2010 where I paid extra for usb3? I sold it in 2014 without ever using usb3 on it. The mobos you can get now with usb-c mostly have only 1 port with many usb-a ports. Most of the people who buy these mobos will never plug anything into that port. It is way too soon to push usb-c without offering any cool devices that use it.
 
Sure usb-c is great for backwards compatibility. I'm just thinking about how absurd it is for all these people to upgrade to this laptop and buy all new cables only to connect usb2 and usb3. We are just now seeing stuff released for usb3 when usb3 has been around for at least 6 years. I got my first usb3 device only last year when saleae released a usb3 logic analyzer. What happened to the computer I built in 2010 where I paid extra for usb3? I sold it in 2014 without ever using usb3 on it. The mobos you can get now with usb-c mostly have only 1 port with many usb-a ports. Most of the people who buy these mobos will never plug anything into that port. It is way too soon to push usb-c without offering any cool devices that use it.

Look, I have a 2013 rMBP. What about Ethernet? DVI? VGA? Three or more USB ports? This dongle issue is just way too overblown! I would rather have a clean laptop and get only adapters that I need vs having a laptop filled with legacy ports (hello new PC we got in at work that STILL had a VGA port on it).
 
  • Like
Reactions: BarracksSi
Sure usb-c is great for backwards compatibility. I'm just thinking about how absurd it is for all these people to upgrade to this laptop and buy all new cables only to connect usb2 and usb3.

If you don't want to buy an USB Type-C cables compatible with your devices, you can get USB 3.0 speed Type-C connector - Type-A receptacle adapters from, say, Amazon for 6 USD apiece. This is not, in my opinion, worth repetitive complaints when a solution to the problem is so cheap.
 
If you don't want to buy an USB Type-C cables compatible with your devices, you can get USB 3.0 speed Type-C connector - Type-A receptacle adapters from, say, Amazon for 6 USD apiece. This is not, in my opinion, worth repetitive complaints when a solution to the problem is so cheap.

Actually, I think it is a bundle of three passive adapters for only $6.
 
Just a question: is there a reason why you need to switch to Mac?

If you don't have - don't. Just my opinion - windows is much simple and not so complicated. if I didn't need macOS, I wouldn't use it. if you pay the same amount as you pay for the new macbook, you get premium windows laptop without issues (vs. budget, low end laptops).

My personal experience from macOS - with every upgrade, things are broken and some are fixed, some don't. You don't have this with windows, because it is much more flexible. just saying... don't take is so literally, but you need to realise that sometimes it is best not to upgrade macOS as you do with windows.
 
Actually, I think it is a bundle of three passive adapters for only $6.

I can't find a bundle of three for that price, but yes, there seem to be at least bundles of two at this price range, dropping cost of a single adapter to pretty manageable levels.
 
Hey Gang,

As I mentioned in another post, I'm a long-time PC user who is planning to switch to Mac and I've just started paying serious attention to Mac products. I notice the reviews on the 2016 MacBook Pro are decidedly mixed and there is a lot of pro and con right here on MacRumors. Is that normal? Has the release of other Apple products been met with such division inside the Mac community or is there something different about this product? Talking to Mac friends and looking in from the outside, I was under the impression that Mac users were always happy and Macs always worked. I have an EE degree so I know that's not possible, but you know what I mean.

I'm not trying to stir things up, but I've been agonizing over the 2015 v. 2016 decision and if this kind of reaction is normal it will shed new light on the 2016. Hope that makes sense.

Cheers,
Dave

The thing when checking review is to check if the con is related to expectations or a product defect. When Apple release a product, there are always an army of people waiting for them with pitchforks because they didn't include something.

I have a fully loaded 15" rMBP 2013 and this thing is a beast. I don't play game but everything I do on it is a pleasure. I had a similar experience with my iMac 2008. I never had that feeling with non-mac computers.

I would take a 2016 model if you can. Apple support them for at least 5 years. I would not worry much about the dongles. I think it's a non-issue for most people.
 
Just a question: is there a reason why you need to switch to Mac?

If you don't have - don't. Just my opinion - windows is much simple and not so complicated. if I didn't need macOS, I wouldn't use it. if you pay the same amount as you pay for the new macbook, you get premium windows laptop without issues (vs. budget, low end laptops).

My personal experience from macOS - with every upgrade, things are broken and some are fixed, some don't. You don't have this with windows, because it is much more flexible. just saying... don't take is so literally, but you need to realise that sometimes it is best not to upgrade macOS as you do with windows.

That is not true. As someone that works in Windows 90% of the time, it is not simple or less complicated than macOS.
 
In the past,Apple usually had machines on the market within days of announcing them. Internet whining was quickly overwhelmed by positive reviews and personal experience. This time, Apple didn't make the machines available until nearly a month after the announcement. That was a mistake, in my opinion, because the whiny Internet cacophony grew unopposed by reality in the online echo chamber.
 
Id say this is not normal. While mac releases have resulted with positive and negative feedback, its normally mostly positive. This time around, due to the length between updates and global price increases the new macbook pro has received negative feedback. I think the other contributing factor, apples obsession with Thinness , many long term fans actually want more battery life our of all their products, not thinner and thinner each year.

For me the new 2016 macbook pro was an extra £1000 over a 2015 refurb, so that decision was an easy one, I just don't see the value in it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Queen6
OP wrote:
"As I mentioned in another post, I'm a long-time PC user who is planning to switch to Mac and I've just started paying serious attention to Mac products. I notice the reviews on the 2016 MacBook Pro are decidedly mixed and there is a lot of pro and con right here on MacRumors."

Be aware that the "2015 model" MacBook Pro models (both 13" and 15" versions) remain in the active product lineup, and are still available as "user-customizable".

They remain as worthy alternatives to the 2016 model, and may even be more desirable depending upon your needs.

You won't see them on Apple's store pages UNLESS you click the "buy" button.
Scroll down towards the bottom and they appear.

When the 2016's were released, I did a side-by-side comparison, and... picked the 2015 as the "better Mac for me".

My opinion only.
Others will disagree.
Some will disagree vehemently.
 
The negativity has come since someone at Apple decided that the iPhone was successful due to having less ports (and obviously being thinner).
This is very effective at appealing to iPhone and iPad users, that would otherwise use an iPad for their primary computer. So it works for the 12" MacBook. But the trouble is that there are still consumers that would buy the MacBook Air or (2015) MacBook Pros, and really don't care anymore about the portability.

There is also the battery life issues because Apple didn't manage to implement the newer battery design.

The best way to get into Mac right now is through the 2015 MacBook Pros.
 
Id say this is not normal. While mac releases have resulted with positive and negative feedback, its normally mostly positive. This time around, due to the length between updates and global price increases the new macbook pro has received negative feedback. I think the other contributing factor, apples obsession with Thinness , many long term fans actually want more battery life our of all their products, not thinner and thinner each year.

For me the new 2016 macbook pro was an extra £1000 over a 2015 refurb, so that decision was an easy one, I just don't see the value in it.
Please stop with the thinness argument. Did you read that the laptop, as thin as it is, was designed for a BIGGER battery than what was sent out? It being thin does not matter.
 
Please stop with the thinness argument. Did you read that the laptop, as thin as it is, was designed for a BIGGER battery than what was sent out? It being thin does not matter.

That's a rumour and not fact.
 
Look, I have a 2013 rMBP. What about Ethernet? DVI? VGA? Three or more USB ports? This dongle issue is just way too overblown! I would rather have a clean laptop and get only adapters that I need vs having a laptop filled with legacy ports (hello new PC we got in at work that STILL had a VGA port on it).

Pushing usb-c now could have been smart. I'm dumbfounded that apple released this usb-c beast with no external graphics support and no apple products that utilize usb-c. It is not impressive that I can connect to a monitor that powers it, I use a henge dock anyway and already connect to power and video in a single connection. BTW why won't apple buy henge or make their own dock so they can release the dock at the same time instead of 9 months later? What is a cool new device that I can connect to usb-c? Where is my touchbar magic keyboard? I want apple to have my money, why are they stopping me from giving it to them?!
 
Hey Gang,

As I mentioned in another post, I'm a long-time PC user who is planning to switch to Mac and I've just started paying serious attention to Mac products. I notice the reviews on the 2016 MacBook Pro are decidedly mixed and there is a lot of pro and con right here on MacRumors. Is that normal? Has the release of other Apple products been met with such division inside the Mac community or is there something different about this product? Talking to Mac friends and looking in from the outside, I was under the impression that Mac users were always happy and Macs always worked. I have an EE degree so I know that's not possible, but you know what I mean.

I'm not trying to stir things up, but I've been agonizing over the 2015 v. 2016 decision and if this kind of reaction is normal it will shed new light on the 2016. Hope that makes sense.

Cheers,
Dave

Go for the 2015, save money, and avoid the potential issues and headaches.

The number of problems, issues, and complaints to the 2016 models, especially the 15", are much higher than ordinarily seen with new releases.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.