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Italian Consumer Association Launches Lawsuit Against Apple for Planned Obsolescence

I7guy said:
That's an equivalent analogy? Apple executives will go to jail because of performance management software and battery replacement program?
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If a court determined that:
  • hiding the premature wear of a consumable component, or
  • disguising a failure to meet basic definitions of product fitness,
by reducing the performance of said product with a post-purchase update that fails to declare its true nature and therefore reduces Apple's warranty burden amounted to a defrauding of the consumer, then yes I can't see why jail time for the executives who made that decision shouldn't be an option.

Companies don't get to interpret their obligations under consumer law based upon the nature of their products, or their preferred design aesthetic - consumer law is a design constraint, like any engineering standard.
 
mattspace said:
If a court determined that:
  • hiding the premature wear of a consumable component, or
  • disguising a failure to meet basic definitions of product fitness,
by reducing the performance of said product with a post-purchase update that fails to declare its true nature and therefore reduces Apple's warranty burden amounted to a defrauding of the consumer, then yes I can't see why jail time for the executives who made that decision shouldn't be an option.

Companies don't get to interpret their obligations under consumer law based upon the nature of their products, or their preferred design aesthetic - consumer law is a design constraint, like any engineering standard.
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There are a lot of ifs in the above statement. And what court would determine that? The Italian courts would have no bearing on the US matter, except a fine. And what would be the "true nature"? Fraud? Or device longevity?
 
I7guy said:
There are a lot of ifs in the above statement. And what court would determine that? The Italian courts would have no bearing on the US matter, except a fine. And what would be the "true nature"? Fraud? Or device longevity?
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Yes there are "ifs" - but determining the ifs is what the case would / will be about.

The Italian court would determine it based upon Italian / EU law, and then were it theoretically a case in which a custodial sentence was due, an extradition order could be issued to the American courts, which the USA would be required to follow under the terms of their 1983 bilateral treaty with Italy.

Being American does not provide immunity from the laws of countries in which a company does business.

The "true nature" of the software update is that it was designed to reduce the performance of the device to below that at which it was sold. The effect of which, was deterring consumers from demanding the devices be fixed under warranty. A secondary effect was the iPhone brand potentially avoiding being tarnished with a reputation of wearing out its batteries at an accelerated rate.
 
mattspace said:
Yes there are "ifs" - but determining the ifs is what the case would / will be about.

The Italian court would determine it based upon Italian / EU law, and then were it theoretically a case in which a custodial sentence was due, an extradition order could be issued to the American courts, which the USA would be required to follow under the terms of their 1983 bilateral treaty with Italy.

Being American does not provide immunity from the laws of countries in which a company does business.

The "true nature" of the software update is that it was designed to reduce the performance of the device to below that at which it was sold. The effect of which, was deterring consumers from demanding the devices be fixed under warranty. A secondary effect was the iPhone brand potentially avoiding being tarnished with a reputation of wearing out its batteries at an accelerated rate.
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Guarantee 100% nobody is going to jail that is an executive based in the US. As for the true nature of the software update neither you nor I can prove it, only have an opinion. Fine maybe, probably.
 
I7guy said:
Guarantee 100% nobody is going to jail that is an executive based in the US. As for the true nature of the software update neither you nor I can prove it, only have an opinion. Fine maybe, probably.
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America is currently causing a Chinese national (and heir to the Huawei dynasty) to be held in captivity in Canada on an extradition warrant, for "breaking" an American law while in Hong-Kong, so there's no real reason to expect American executives to be magically immune from other country's laws.

That said, I imagine Apple would issue blank cheques for defending their own executives, at least for as long as shareholders were prepared to fund it, in theory.

Seeing Apple executives sneaking themselves to non-treatied countries in music cases, Ghosn-style would be a laugh.
 
mattspace said:
America is currently causing a Chinese national (and heir to the Huawei dynasty) to be held in captivity in Canada on an extradition warrant, for "breaking" an American law while in Hong-Kong, so there's no real reason to expect American executives to be magically immune from other country's laws.

That said, I imagine Apple would issue blank cheques for defending their own executives, at least for as long as shareholders were prepared to fund it, in theory.

Seeing Apple executives sneaking themselves to non-treatied countries in music cases, Ghosn-style would be a laugh.
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All of these hypotheticals are fun. Tim Cook is not going to jail for power management and the apple bank account is not going to be emptied. Apple would pull out of Italy first. (imo)
 
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macfacts said:
The customer has no work to do in a class action law suit, no time wasted.
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Wrong. You have to fill out paperwork online to get a settlement award, if you end up getting anything at all. 10 minutes of your time might be worth .7 cents. My time is far more valuable.
 
I’m very critical of Apple. I love their phones, HP, AirPods and AM. But don’t always agree with the way they do business.

BUT THIS IS STUPID
 
brdeveloper said:
I wonder what would be your opinion if we were talking about cars. Imagine if you wouldn't be able to fix or improve your car by contract.
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It is not illegal to fix or improve your car (obviously). But in doing so, if you break a part, the car dealer is under no obligation to said part under warranty.
 
I7guy said:
It is not illegal to fix or improve your car (obviously). But in doing so, if you break a part, the car dealer is under no obligation to said part under warranty.
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Exactly, the same would apply if you used 3rd party instead of OEM, its not under warranty.
 
I7guy said:
It is not illegal to fix or improve your car (obviously). But in doing so, if you break a part, the car dealer is under no obligation to said part under warranty.
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I'm not talking about warranty. Imagine your car has soldered components just for preventing DIY fixing.
 
I7guy said:
Imagine your car has soldered components to improve the reliability and lifespan.
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The car would flop badly. There are many people who work on their own cars. Imagine if you had to go to a dealer only for an oil change.
 
Td1970 said:
The car would flop badly. There are many people who work on their own cars. Imagine if you had to go to a dealer only for an oil change.
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This issue has had it's fair share of discussion on MacRumors (and probably elsewhere). Don't think it needs to be rehashed as that is not the rational of the premise of the thread.
 
I7guy said:
This issue has had it's fair share of discussion on MacRumors (and probably elsewhere). Don't think it needs to be rehashed as that is not the rational of the premise of the thread.
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There's no reason to lock bootloader access. It's not locked on Macs. Batteries can be replaced by third party ones, there's no reason for Apple not even sell replacements.
 
calzon65 said:
I think Apple already does a decent job supporting older platforms for many years. At some point, Apple or any other company, is going to "move on" to newer technologies.
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The create new generation products and obsolete the “old” still in condition to use, just need some repair ) . It has been a Glogal problem. They don’t care about environment either about the consumers (we). I found some people that are so devote to Apple that can’t see what is going on. I was Apple fan too, but im not blind..all my devices are from Apple, but I started to figure out since the exclude the necessary acssessories from all I 0phones, even the 7, 8,9,10… it is not about the environment, is about money. The world needs cares, consciousl consumers, and responsible companies. Now im crazy to chage everything. Im so desapointed for the iPhone 11 , I bought without acessories… my MacBook pro 2011 has a fabric defect that Apple never told.. now its obsolete: trash. Im writing an article about my case study : Obsolescence a new way to consuming. Lets talk about it with everyone.. people should know behind the advertising.
 
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