Italy Fining Apple 10M Euros for 'Dishonest Commercial Practices' Related to iPhone Throttling

[dialogos]

This entirely contradicts the fact that iOS was one of the top performing OS with 1GB RAM until recently, and most of the Apple diehards defended saying that iOS was an optimised OS tightly integrated with hardware in a sophisticated manner etc... Now we are hearing that previous editions were bloatwares! Only one of these two could be a fact.

you're talking about something else. I was talking about a very poor analogy.

But to answer your post, sometimes different statements can be true at the same time. It's a fact that Apple forces updates and older machines are unusable. My old iPad 3 was a top performing OS back then but now it's just unusable.
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If you don't upgrade, support drops within the ecosystem so it's not really quite that simple. It's obvious and expected nothing stays supported forever. This is the real truth behind planned obsolescence, you'll have to upgrade one way or another.

On my iPad 3 I can't even browse the web. I don't care about the rest of the ecosystem when basic functions don't work anymore. But I don't disagree to what you're saying. I also believe in this planned obsolescence theory

 

[Larabee119]

Sorry but I don't think your analogy makes sense.

1. People could downgrade Vista at any time!
2. It was well known since day one that Vista slows down your computer

What you're stating that people bought new computer I don't think is valid. On the contrary it was well known that Vista was a terrible operating system , so people would either keep Vista or downgrade them to XP or something else. I don't remember people buying a new computer!

I said ‘upgrade’, that doesn’t mean buying a while new computer. The analogy here is when people have to spend more money to get the same level of performance before software update. Windows Vista brings new and exciting features with the cost of peformance. And you say people can downgrade to XP anytime? I remember my grandma cannot do it on her own. Not everyone is a tech expert.

And it is well known from day 1 that newer iOS slow your phone down (or you’re too exciting about the new features to do a google search before committing then start to complain?), so I don’t update my apple devices until it is proven to get the same or faster performance. And I think there is still a think called jailbreak and downgrade to an unsigned firmware.

you're talking about something else. I was talking about a very poor analogy.

But to answer your post, sometimes different statements can be true at the same time. It's a fact that Apple forces updates and older machines are unusable. My old iPad 3 was a top performing OS back then but now it's just unusable.
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On my iPad 3 I can't even browse the web. I don't care about the rest of the ecosystem when basic functions don't work anymore. But I don't disagree to what you're saying. I also believe in this planned obsolescence theory

I don’t remember seeing an Apple employee holding a gun to my head when I voluntarily hit the update button on my iPad. Dude, just don’t install updates and you’ll be just fine. My iPad 3 is still running stock iOS and it works brilliantly but the browser cannot render some new websites including apple site because of the new codes. Should we blame Apple or the web dev guy? Get over it man. Tech toys have limited life span.

 

[dialogos]

I said ‘upgrade’, that doesn’t mean buying a while new computer. The analogy here is when people have to spend more money to get the same level of performance before software update. Windows Vista brings new and exciting features with the cost of peformance. And you say people can downgrade to XP anytime? I remember my grandma cannot do it on her own. Not everyone is a tech expert.

And it is well known from day 1 that newer iOS slow your phone down (or you’re too exciting about the new features to do a google search before committing then start to complain?), so I don’t update my apple devices until it is proven to get the same or faster performance. And I think there is still a think called jailbreak and downgrade to an unsigned firmware.

Well with no disrespect at all but I assume your grandma - like most people of an age - couldn't upgrade on her own as well from Vista to something else.

Regarding jailbreak I don't know if you're a professional in an industry that allows that but for some of us that's not even an option!.... I will not even comment on that.

Plus I mentioned before a personal story of a 'forced' update. It was almost impossible not to update - or accidentally update.

And finally WHY Apple refused to replace my battery - I'm repeating again I was willing to pay ; I actually knew how much it will cost me.

 

[Larabee119]

you're talking about something else. I was talking about a very poor analogy.

But to answer your post, sometimes different statements can be true at the same time. It's a fact that Apple forces updates and older machines are unusable. My old iPad 3 was a top performing OS back then but now it's just unusable.
[doublepost=1540395236][/doublepost]

On my iPad 3 I can't even browse the web. I don't care about the rest of the ecosystem when basic functions don't work anymore. But I don't disagree to what you're saying. I also believe in this planned obsolescence theory

Well with no disrespect at all I well assume your grandma couldn't upgrade on her own as well from Vista to something else. Some applies to most people's grandmas I guess.

Regarding jailbreak I don't know if you're professional but for some of us that's not even an option!.... I will not even comment on that.

Plus I mentioned before a personal story of a 'forced' update. It was almost impossible not to update - or accidentally update.

And finally WHY Apple refused to replace my battery - I'm repeating again I was willing to pay ; I actually knew how much it will cost me.

I’m not a pro or anything close to it. Even my poor dad who knows little things about tech and follow instruction and jailbreak his iPhone. Same thing as downgrading android, not everyone can do it easily. There is no button call ‘downgrade to previous firmware’ on android or at least in my note 8.
And on my android, the update notice pops up like mushroom after rain. It’s just the nature of this industry to pusn out update.

Back to the analogy, my grandma was forced to use vista out of the box and if she wants faster performance, she needs to pay. Does the analogy make sense to you now.

Why Apple refuse to replace your battery is a mystery. I’ve never had any problem with my battery replacement even before the throttling issue. And there are thousands of private stores outhere that do battery replacement for you.
Get it straight brother, you don’t need to pay Apple to replace your out of warranty devices. Get someone else to do it at a cheaper price.

 

[jlc1978]

1. I believe lot of people will disagree with your solution.

No doubt, but a lot of people wanted their older device to be upgradable to the latest software and not have any performance impacts or limitations something that is not always possible in the real world. At least Apple offers updates for older devices, and no doubt would have people screaming if they stopped updating them when a new device comes out.

Apple poorly communicated the impact of the update; of course had they simply let the battery drain then people would be screaming about unexpected shutdowns and Apple accused of trying to force them to buy new iPhone.

In some ways it is a no win situation.

I remember this annoying popup to update my iPhone. I didn't want to update so I kept cancelling it. There was no option not to update at all. I had also deleted the downloaded file as I was instructed by a friend! Well the update came back to my iPhone and one day I accidentally clicked OK. There was no way back. My iPhone got slow and I had no way to roll back to an older iOS version.

I would like an "Ignore all updates" choice as well; if only to remove the annoying notification on the Settings icon. and popups.

How is this not forced update?

Well, you did, even accidentally, install it. I get it, and agree, Apple's update methodology is poor and needs a way to stop updates and notifications. None the less, not updating is still an option.

I have an old iPad and an old iPhone which are unusable. Why shouldn't I be allowed to restore them to factory settings as I bought them?

I agree, as someone who also has older devices. At least I can do the with MacBooks. Apple could easily offer a signed version of the last OS relate of the OS version originally shipped to allow a factory restore. Off course, they would then be criticized for allowing users to reopen security threats later OS versions closed.

 

[dialogos]

I’m not a pro or anything close to it. Even my poor dad who knows little things about tech and follow instruction and jailbreak his iPhone. Same thing as downgrading android, not everyone can do it easily. There is no button call ‘downgrade to previous firmware’ on android or at least in my note 8.
And on my android, the update notice pops up like mushroom after rain. It’s just the nature of this industry to pusn out update.

Back to the analogy, my grandma was forced to use vista out of the box and if she wants faster performance, she needs to pay. Does the analogy make sense to you now.

Why Apple refuse to replace your battery is a mystery. I’ve never had any problem with my battery replacement even before the throttling issue. And there are thousands of private stores outhere that do battery replacement for you.
Get it straight brother, you don’t need to pay Apple to replace your out of warranty devices. Get someone else to do it at a cheaper price.

If I knew my iPhone was slow because of the battery I would have probably replaced it somewhere else.

Regarding jailbreak you can keep insisting but I have a different opinion.

 

[I7guy]

It’s because Vista slows your pc down and runs significantly slower on older hardware. Therefore, a lot of people need to upgrade their PC in order for Vista to work. The analogy makes a lot of sense.

Software development require time, real talent and loads of money.

In iOS 7-8-9-10, Apple engineers have rushed to get new features out and the result is bloating codes. The engineers are not given enough time to make the iOS works as it should. The combination of incompetency and the pushing top management that drives iOS to become unoptimized. Now I’m glad we can see a change in iOS 12 and I hope this will continue.

For me I did not have performance issues with iOS 7 and above on my iPhones. Sure people were picking on minutiae as evidence, but It was no where near it was being made out to be in some posts.

In addition, no sure of where incompetence enters the picture... maybe while they were getting their act together in 2012. But in 2028 they do have their **** together.

 

[notabadname]

Apple should have been clear about what they were doing. But I believe Apple was actually trying to extend the life of the device. The best brands don’t worry about so-called planned obsolescence. They desire brand loyalty that is the result of the consumer finding your product reliable and of high quality. Apple has always differentiated itself in that way. More people would’ve upgraded their old phones if they where regularly dying mid-day. Apple’s claimed intent with the software makes more sense than the alternative IMO.

 

[dialogos]

No doubt, but a lot of people wanted their older device to be upgradable to the latest software and not have any performance impacts or limitations something that is not always possible in the real world. At least Apple offers updates for older devices, and no doubt would have people screaming if they stopped updating them when a new device comes out.
....
I would like an "Ignore all updates" choice as well; if only to remove the annoying notification on the Settings icon. and popups.

Well, you did, even accidentally, install it. I get it, and agree, Apple's update methodology is poor and needs a way to stop updates and notifications. None the less, not updating is still an option.

....

Well if you keep having this annoying popup everyday eventually you will click the wrong button. One of the reasons I believe Apple was willingly forcing users to update is that other than this insinsting popup the update file would re-download after deleting it many many times! Why is that?

 

[Larabee119]

For me I did not have performance issues with iOS 7 and above on my iPhones. Sure people were picking on minutiae as evidence, but It was no where near it was being made out to be in some posts.

In addition, no sure of where incompetence enters the picture... maybe while they were getting their act together in 2012. But in 2028 they do have their **** together.

They were infact gettjng their act together with iOS and try to clear out the pile of junk bloated codes in the previous iOS.

About the performance drop, it’s noticeable but your milage may vary. I get used to a butterly smooth animation before the update, so I notice immediately. At the time, the iPad 3 was the best of the best so the expectation is even higher.
Back to the topic at hand, I believe Apple simlpy doesn’t care about minority of people complaining. When it’s getting big enough, they will change. That’s how it works in big corporations these days

 

[forrestsun3]

Yep, it’s better that these phones shut down unexpectedly due to overwhelming the batteries. Especially when the user is in a safety or medical emergency.

I agree that Apple and others should have disclosed that they did this, but I don’t see it as taking advantage of customers. If Apple really wanted to push users into new phones, they would be well within their rights to only do 2 or 3 years of software updates, like hundreds of Android phone models get away with.

Then Apple should just do that, stop updating the software on older devices after 2 years (or however long). I don't understand the obsession of needing the latest OS. Yes, it has more features but I'd rather have my device's hardware run the software it was designed to handle.

Maybe other manufacturers stop giving out software update for this exact reason? At least that might be part of the consideration?

All I know is my iPad 3rd gen runs much musch slower on the new iOS than the one it came with and I think Apple is responsible for that.

So yeah, I support the fine.

 

[Cosmosent]

RE: "Most recently, Apple's VP of marketing Greg Joswiak called the idea of planned obsolescence "the craziest thinking in the world."

Touting the company line NO doubt !

 

[MacLoveMacHate]

As I've stated here before, when I visited the Genius Bar to inquire as to why my phone kept shutting itself down for battery reasons, the guy helping literally thanked me for not yelling at him as that's what most people had been doing in response to the issue.

 

[nerdAFK]

Amazing still so many apologists defending Apple’s throttling debacle.

Guilty as charged!

More governments should fine Apple.

 

[dangerly]

omg - italy - the land where everything is organised and just works.

Have you ever lived in Italy to say such nonsense?

 

[nerdAFK]

I wonder if there is a similar issue brewing with older iPads?
My 3rd gen iPad plays video quite well, with no stuttering but, trying to get Safari to scroll smoothly is an impossibility.

Nope.
iPads are not throttled.

 

[joueboy]

Yeah, Italy made the wrong decision. Operating Systems become more resource heavy as technology advances and faster hardware and more RAM go into new phones to take that into account.

Its just the way technology works. Thats why eventually they stop supporting new IOS versions on older phones. Not for "planned obsolescence", but because the older hardware just plain CANT HANDLE IT!

And as for the batteries, what do you prefer? a phone that slows down slightly to prevent unexpected shutdowns? Or a phone that shuts itself off randomly making you think its broken and have to replace it?

The situation is actually worse for Apple if they DONT slow the phones down.

Really!? Apple already admitted the fault by fixing iOS 12 which made the iPhone 6 faster, I don't know what exactly you're talking about like technology advancement, resource heavy blah blah blah. Somehow you find a way to defend Apple for this kind of practice? Wow!

 

[Morgenland]

Have you ever lived in Italy to say such nonsense?

Don't worry, it was ironic.

 

[itsmilo]

And now they gave us the most useless battery stats that tell us nothing

 

[Morgenland]

And now they gave us the most useless battery stats that tell us nothing

"us" is not me

 

[windywalks]

Thats odd, my iPhone 6 has never performed faster than when it was new.

Your iPhone 6 Plus never performed, period.
(Source - I had one )
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I wonder if there is a similar issue brewing with older iPads?
My 3rd gen iPad plays video quite well, with no stuttering but, trying to get Safari to scroll smoothly is an impossibility.

Yeah, I've had that since... I bought it in 2012.
Terrible idea, I have no idea why I bought the junk in the first place.

 

[840quadra]

Yeah, because actually notifying people that they had the additional option of replacing the battery to restore it to as-new condition would have affected their planned obsolescence strategy. Minor detail.

I already said that I agree that Users should have been notified. So not sure what you are after.

Obsolescence strategy? Do you have some internal memos from Apple to support that claim? The continued software updates essentially refute your conspiracy theory.

“not taking advantage of customers”
Really? then why throttle the device even when is connected to power cord? a little bird told me that maybe the reason is to hide something!

and then....

what about this:

What are they hiding, that batteries are a tricky technology to manage? Throttling while connected to power makes total sense for thermal reasons.

Why? Because heat impacts battery health and stability. Charging a battery creates heat, and heavy processing also creates heat. If you don’t properly balance that, you can have a thermal runaway similar to the type that caused fires / explosions of Samsung batteries in the past. I will happily wait a second or 2 for my app, over the alternative of an exploding phone.

Not going to dive into the off topic video, my point on chiming in on this thread isn’t to defend Apple in the first place as I know they aren’t perfect.

 

[I7guy]

If you don't upgrade, support drops within the ecosystem so it's not really quite that simple. It's obvious and expected nothing stays supported forever. This is the real truth behind planned obsolescence, you'll have to upgrade one way or another and that upgrade is generally going to be a hardware one. iOS 12 is flashy with it's promises but hasn't really proved much difference to me. Coming from 11 yes, but coming from previous iOS versions it's not really any different and is just fluff to make people feel warm and fuzzy that Apple cares. Here's a video even showing performance boost between 10.3.3 and iOS 12 to be a moot improvement to performance.

iOS 12 didn’t make a big difference over iOS 11 in getting the task finished. What feels different is the overall smoothness and responsiveness. Not to mention patching some really bad vulnerabilities.

You’re right about planned obsolescence, nothing lasts forever and companies aren’t obliged to support their products through infinity. That’s different than the “planned obsolescence “ meme whereby Apple purposely cripples its devices to increase sales.

 

[netdudeuk]

Funny that the Apple apologists are out again on this topic.

They wouldn't replace my battery because their tests said it was still over 80%, even though my phone was having the shutdowns before the iOS change, and ridiculously terrible performance after, so I bought a new phone.

After the news broke and they changed the battery policy to voluntary replacement even above their alleged 80%, I got a new battery in the old phone and gave it to my nephew, and now it works perfectly. Their practices directly led me to buying a new phone. I'm sure in the nature of scale around anything Apple, if it happened to me, I'm sure a hell of a lot of people did the same.

I'll still buy more Apple products, and I'm a stockholder, but here is a case where they were very unethical and should be penalized for it.

I have a 6 Plus, which is a refurb from the Apple store.

It isn't that old and the battery capacity is at 91%.

I was in a phone queue this morning on hands free. I noticed the battery percentage drop and then again. I continued to watch it and found that it dropped a percent every ten seconds or so. The speaker was on full volume and the display was at the brightest. However, draining at that rate seems unreasonable.

 

[H2SO4]

Yeah, Italy made the wrong decision. Operating Systems become more resource heavy as technology advances and faster hardware and more RAM go into new phones to take that into account.

Its just the way technology works. Thats why eventually they stop supporting new IOS versions on older phones. Not for "planned obsolescence", but because the older hardware just plain CANT HANDLE IT!

And as for the batteries, what do you prefer? a phone that slows down slightly to prevent unexpected shutdowns? Or a phone that shuts itself off randomly making you think its broken and have to replace it?

The situation is actually worse for Apple if they DONT slow the phones down.

I believe you have completely missed the point. It wasn't that they used software to slow the phones that's fine and understandable.
a. It's that they were underhand about it.
b. They were covering up for a defective/undersized battery and therefore preventing you from making a justified warranty claim.
Consider this;
Company A has sold 1 million phones and make a thick phone with a battery that lasts >12 months without issue. They decided the required capacity of the battery by using information they had gleaned over the years as to peoples usage patterns.
Company B has sold 20 million phones and make a thin phone with a battery that might last 12 months without issue. They have a massive user base from which to glean enough data to enable them to make an informed choice about the required capacity of the battery. They still chose to undersize it and to prevent warranty claims, throttled it.