ITC Rules For Apple in Patent Case, Bans Some HTC Imports [Update: HTC Responds]

[cmChimera]

Why is Apple entitled to these patents?

Haha, I think some document called the Constitution? Also statutory law, and international trade agreements. No biggie.

I think it's hilarious that people would recommend that Apple NOT protect their patents, and just let any and all competitors use their inventions.

 

[samcraig]

deleted.. no point.

 

[KnightWRX]

"HAHA" - nowhere in the constitution are patents covered.

I think he was referring to Article 1, section 8.

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries.

The problem is "inventions". Really, patents have become a cesspool in recent years, with business method patents and software patents. The system just wasn't thought up for these things.

Anyway, it's almost impossible not to infringe on a patent of somekind when releasing a product these days. Apple has been found to infringe on many patents themselves, does that make them "copycats, rip-offs, cheap knock-offs ... " ? Of course not, patents such as those discussed here are not about copying designs. Frankly, companies doing these sort of violations are never aware of it until they are sued or approached by the patent holder. There's just way too many patents out there and to sort through all of them before making your product would be insane.

 

[roasted]

Great job Apple. Keep it up. Protect your patents to the end.

This is absolutely disgusting to me. I cannot believe this went through. Apple, you have some decent products and are doing some great things, but really, stop acting like a child. This is even coming from somebody who enjoys using Apple gear...

----------

And court in Germany stated that Apple infringed on Motorola. Would you say that Apple is a cheap knock-off brand?

This post wins thread.

 

[BaldiMac]

The point is nothing like that, since there was no "violation" until the very moment that the ITC decided so.

Apple wanted to throw a roadblock at HTC and dug up a bunch of patents, some pretty old.

In turn, HTC had absolutely no reason to rewrite any of their own code until or unless the ITC told them they had to.

As it turned out, HTC was right to wait, since nine out of ten Apple patents were deemed to not being applicable. Now HTC only had to rewrite code for one.

I'm not sure how that disagrees with what I said. I agree with everything except your classification of Apple's motives. All I said was that the point of the threat of a ban is to get HTC to stop violating the patent that they were found to violate.

 

[Rocketman]

The problem with unstructured data like phone numbers is people do not conform to a particular style. Some include the leading number one, others, no. Dashes, parens, with or without area codes, international numbers. There is a dense set of logic to recognize "most" numbers reliably.

I can see why there is a bit of IP associated with it.

This is just one algorithm of thousands in an OS and its associated apps. The sheer number and variety of apps in iOS is astounding. I would hate to be a programmer. There are too many choices! You have to devote your life to it to do it right and Apple needs legions of them.

Rocketman

 

[goosnarrggh]

Then again, it could be as simple as that HTC by accident duplicated the exact implementation that Apple had patented, and that a mere shift from e.g. hash tables to relational ones do the trick. If so, all is quite fine.

But the ITC said, for example, that HTC specifically violated claim 1 of this patent. Such a determination requires consideration of the text of claim 1 of the patent on its own, without relying on on methods or techniques that are not specifically referred to by the claim. Claim 1 of this patent doesn't say anything about hash tables or relational tables, or any other specific method of lookup, so such implementation details are irrelevant to the determination of whether or not claim 1 is being violated.

Instead, I could see a workaround such as taking the string analyzer out of the phone itself, and placing it in a physically separate proxy machine which communicates the result of its analysis to the phone by a network connection. That way, the "analyzer server" program is no longer physically contained within the same memory as the storage for the "user interface" or "action processor" programs.

HTC has, in fact, issued a revised statement. Initially they had stated that they were prepared with alternate implementations of the features contained in patent '647. Now they've changed their tune, stating that they will essentially be removing the entire feature set related to patent '647.

 

[muncyweb]

Really, patents have become a cesspool in recent years, with business method patents and software patents. The system just wasn't thought up for these things.

Anyway, it's almost impossible not to infringe on a patent of somekind when releasing a product these days.

I agree, the patent system is a cesspool. Good way to describe it. People patent things in the hopes of getting rich in the future. Then they sit on their ideas for years and then sue someone else who actually makes the effort to bring the idea to market.

However, Apple's ideas have clearly been copied many times over. Before Apple arrived with the iPhone, there were no full touch screen cell phones as Apple had implemented them. I had (and still have) a Palm Treo 650, which incorporated a stylus, small touch screen, and a keyboard. But there were many ideas which Apple brought to the table taking the entire industry to the next level. And now there are full size touch screen cell phones everywhere. People in today's society take it for granted now, as people today can't seem to see past yesterday. We forget that before the iPhone, interfaces were clunky, and the internet was insanely slow on cell phones. I too remember watching Steve Jobs on stage talking about all the patents they filed for these devices. I believe they have every right to protect their intellectual property. They didn't just sit on their ideas. They brought their ideas to life.

 

[KnightWRX]

However, Apple's ideas have clearly been cop....

I was with you till you launched into this tirade.

This thread is not about the iPhone, how it was or wasn't copied or even about an iOS related patent. Nor is the patent infringement about copying. This is a genuine submarine patent where HTC implemented something and ran afoul of the patent. This is not "willful" infringement at all.

Really folks, let it go. Any hope you have of calling other company "copycats, knock-offs, rip offs" are just that : hopes. And they are vain too. In the end, Apple isn't winning on these "copying" charges aside from Germany, they are winning over submarine patents on specific implementations of certain technologies, be they multi-touch gestures with specific animation results or this string parser to create an action where none have been specified.

 

[devilstrider]

Apple copies a bunch of features from Android, calls it iOS5 (Updated)

By Ed Burnette | June 6, 2011, 1:14pm PDT

Summary: iOS5 was announced today. In this article we run down the top 10 features of iOS5 and see how original and innovative they are compared to Apple’s main competition: Android.

Today at WWDC 2011, Steve Jobs took the wraps off iOS5, the next major release of the operating system used by iPhones, iPod Touch, and iPads. According to Apple, iOS5 has over 200 new user features and 1500 new developer APIs. But how many of these are really new?

Apple is known for their innovation, and for suing other companies that copy (or as they put it, “steal“) ideas from them. So we were curious to see how iOS5’s features stacked up in the originality department. In particular, we looked at the 10 main user features highlighted during the keynote today and compared them to features in iOS’s main competition, Android.

1. Notifications. In iOS5 notifications will appear at the top of your screen and you can drag the bar down to see all the notifications in one place.

Original? Definitely not. Android has had that since version 1.0. Recently they improved it in Android 3 so developers can make rich notifications that are more than just text and an image. So iOS5 notifications have caught up to Android 1.0 notifications. The only original part is integration of notifications into the lock screen. Some 3rd party apps provide that for Android but it’s not built-in.

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

Can someone please create a "PatentBlock", just like AdBlock, but blocks patent posts on websites. I can't stand seeing them on the main page, let alone the usual flame wars that starts.

I know, I know, I could just ignore them and not read the comments... But it's like blowing ones nose, you have to look inside the kleenex right after...

Won't get approved for the AppStore sorry.

 

[devilstrider]

When is someone going to intervene and stop the greed?!?!?! I don't get it! Apple didn't invent these ideas. My Blackberry used to identify actionable content in emails years ago! Most of what the iPhone has accomplished has been built on the shoulders of less polished devices.
Yet Apple acts like before the iPhone all phones were dumb!

Apple got the timing right with the iPhone. Screen technology and mobile technology
finally matured enough for a device like the iPhone to flourish. The success of the iPhone has more to do with its timing than software/features.

1. Cell Networks - Finally most customers had access to the Internet
2. Wi-Fi - Where cell networks failed Wi-Fi saved us from blank screens
3. Color screens matured - making an affordable quality large screen has opened up the flood gates for consuming large volumes of data on a pocket-sized device.
4. Mobile technology, such as CPU's and GPU's finally could drive the graphics that would take advantage of large screens.
5. Battery Life - smaller, more powerful batteries allowed a smartphone to last through the day

Kudos to Apple for putting the pieces together at the right time. This does not give them the right to sue everybody like they own the market!

I refuse to buy any more Apple products because of their strong-arm tactics and greed! My one and only Apple product was an iPod Classic plagued by iTunes or Windows. I felt like I sacrificed a lot of flexibility for some industrial design when all I wanted was a way to consume my pre-owned music.

I am sorry Apple, but it looks like you are just going to have to continue innovating. You can't just sit there and milk the competition and the public forever.

Software patents need to stop!!! They are not protecting inventors! They are being used to smother the competition!

Apple must see a real threat in HTC and Android... And for good reason! Both are climbing the smartphone charts at an astonishing rate. Not because they
are ripping iPhones off, but because they offer a very compelling smartphone experience without gouging the customer.

Why would any court stand in the way of that?!?!?

I agree with you. We have iPod touches, I have a iPhone 4 that i only use as a iPod now and a MacBook Pro. I just got my daughter a iPod touch for Christmas to replace the one that was stolen but that is my last Apple purchase. I have a SGSII and I'm fine with it. I actually stopped using my iPhone 4 about 2 months after I got the it because I had also got the EVO 4G when it came out. But this is getting very disgusting.

 

[mijail]

Absolutely. Besides, even Microsoft has more patents than Apple, and Microsoft is certainly more "centered" as a company than a technology giant like Samsung.

Do you say that in an appreciative way, or in a despective way?

http://blogs.computerworld.com/1766...e_in_patents_so_why_does_it_lag_in_innovation

Funny article name (not visible because the link gets shortened: "microsoft_dominantes_apple_in_patents_so_why_does_it_lag_in_innovation")

But as I've said before, most of the patents that those company own are not worth the paper they're written on because they basically cover abstract, simple ideas and shouldn't have obtained a patent in the first place. They are only ammunition for lawsuits, and they usually only help destroying small companies that don't have the legal budget of a mega-corporation and who accordingly cannot defend themselves against a lawsuit that they under fair circumstances would win.

I agree. That's why I don't even try to compare companies based on patent numbers.
Not like those people looking up to the number of patents by IBM, which include infamous monstrosities like the procedure for drawing a thick line from a thin line.

(my 0.01$: patents are F'd up and weaponized, but now it is not an option not to use them. Let's just hope they are changed, and lawyers start getting "downsized".)

 

[Icaras]

This is absolutely disgusting to me. I cannot believe this went through. Apple, you have some decent products and are doing some great things, but really, stop acting like a child. This is even coming from somebody who enjoys using Apple gear...

No, their acting like a business.

 

[cmChimera]

No, their acting like a business.

A prudent one as well. It would be stupid of Apple to not protect their intellectual property,

 

[gizmo1]

this is ridiculous

I understand it isn't right for companies to copy things, but come on, this fight has gone too far. Apple is coming to the point where its just trying to be the only choice in the world. You can't do that, the world has to have choice! Thats how the world's economy keeps going. I love android, but i also love iphone. They are both great softwares, do i think android copied iphone? Yes...do i think ios 5 copied android with the status bar and notifications? Yes. Bottom line, its the consumers decision to what device they are going to buy, not apple's.

 

[KnightWRX]

I understand it isn't right for companies to copy things

Nothing was copied here. This is about a method patent infringement...

 

[Zombie Acorn]

Software "innovations" should not be patentable. Especially when common sense would dictate these functions. Its like someone invented a pencil and then I patent writing on different surfaces.

Apple is becoming quite the patent troll, as innovations stop and they focus more on patents than making new products they will fail.

 

[goosnarrggh]

Software "innovations" should not be patentable. Especially when common sense would dictate these functions. Its like someone invented a pencil and then I patent writing on different surfaces.

I'm not opposed to the idea of patenting a specific method of identifying certain types of data inside a piece of plain text. For example, some patentable implementations may be able to do it more quickly, and other patentable implementations may be able to do a better job of catching corner cases to avoid false-positive or false-negative results.

I'm opposed to the breadth of the claim in this patent, which has the appearance of going beyond protecting a particular method of accomplishing the stated goal, and instead appears to grant Apple exclusive rights to the goal itself, without getting into insignificant details such as a particular method of achieving the goal.

 

[kdarling]

I'm not sure how that disagrees with what I said. I agree with everything except your classification of Apple's motives. All I said was that the point of the threat of a ban is to get HTC to stop violating the patent that they were found to violate.

Ah, okay. I think it's the words that are a bit perjorative, even though we all constantly use them.

"Ban" and "violate" have the negative connotation of punishment for using someone else's patent on purpose, when it's clearly a more innocent case of coming up with something similar... which wouldn't be hard to do here.

So it ended up being a really gentle judgement.

The ITC basically told HTC that it was too bad, but it looked like Apple got a patent on the idea first. And since HTC didn't infringe on purpose, the ITC is giving them five months to come up with an alternative way. In the meantime, they can continue selling phones that use their old method, without any penalty.

 

[Navdakilla]

Apple few

 

[samcraig]

Ah, okay. I think it's the words that are a bit perjorative, even though we all constantly use them.

"Ban" and "violate" have the negative connotation of punishment for using someone else's patent on purpose, when it's clearly a more innocent case of coming up with something similar... which wouldn't be hard to do here.

So it ended up being a really gentle judgement.

The ITC basically told HTC that it was too bad, but it looked like Apple got a patent on the idea first. And since HTC didn't infringe on purpose, the ITC is giving them five months to come up with an alternative way. In the meantime, they can continue selling phones that use their old method, without any penalty.

This exactly.

 

[Fraaaa]

Apple copies a bunch of features from Android, calls it iOS5 (Updated)

By Ed Burnette | June 6, 2011, 1:14pm PDT

Summary: iOS5 was announced today. In this article we run down the top 10 features of iOS5 and see how original and innovative they are compared to Apple’s main competition: Android.

Today at WWDC 2011, Steve Jobs took the wraps off iOS5, the next major release of the operating system used by iPhones, iPod Touch, and iPads. According to Apple, iOS5 has over 200 new user features and 1500 new developer APIs. But how many of these are really new?

Apple is known for their innovation, and for suing other companies that copy (or as they put it, “steal“) ideas from them. So we were curious to see how iOS5’s features stacked up in the originality department. In particular, we looked at the 10 main user features highlighted during the keynote today and compared them to features in iOS’s main competition, Android.

1. Notifications. In iOS5 notifications will appear at the top of your screen and you can drag the bar down to see all the notifications in one place.

Original? Definitely not. Android has had that since version 1.0. Recently they improved it in Android 3 so developers can make rich notifications that are more than just text and an image. So iOS5 notifications have caught up to Android 1.0 notifications. The only original part is integration of notifications into the lock screen. Some 3rd party apps provide that for Android but it’s not built-in.

Are you implying that Apple reproduced some feature that is not being patented from an open source operating system that is distributed and used for free?? Unbelievable!!


I can make an article like that too, read:

Google CEO and Apple Board Member Eric Schmidt, after collaborating with Apple on some app for a new unreleased product called the iPhone, decide to redevelop their Google phone OS that looks like a BlackBerry to match the iPhoneOS, and add multitouch capabilities which where already patented by Apple.

 

[Oletros]

Are you implying that Apple reproduced some feature that is not being patented from an open source operating system that is distributed and used for free?? Unbelievable!!


I can make an article like that too, read:

Google CEO and Apple Board Member Eric Schmidt, after collaborating with Apple on some app for a new unreleased product called the iPhone, decide to redevelop their Google phone OS that looks like a BlackBerry to match the iPhoneOS, and add multitouch capabilities which where already patented by Apple.

And both of the articles would be false

 

[Fraaaa]

And both of the articles would be false

What would be false of my "article"? Have I missed something?