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All that really says is both were working on the tech at the same time and Massimo made the key break threw first and you mix that with Apple pouching key employees from Massimo means Apple can not use the defense they came up with it on their own as Apple own progress was being made by Massimo former employers who would of had in their heads progress that Massimo had made so it not as much as Apple came up with it their own.

That trade secrets part hurts Apple defense.

Massimo knowing Apple was working on it or suspected it meant they might of advanced their plans faster to beat Apple to a completed product as they knew if Apple got it first Apple would sue to snot out of them and then know that the rabid Apple fans would back Apple 100%.
As the court decided and people in the industry know hiring people from competitors is standard business. What you are assuming is that Apple got Masimo’s ’trade secrets’ from them. And that is telling - they aren’t claiming patent infringement in their complaints even though that is what the ITC is talking about - they are saying Apple stole ‘trade secrets’ - the special things they DON’T patent because they want them to be, well, secret.

The patent talks about an algorithm from angled sensor data to correct for variations in skin depth and you can’t patent math. All Apple should have to do is show their work creating their own algorithm and that makes the ‘trade secret’ part go away. When you hire someone else’s employees they are specifically instructed NOT to just do what their old employer did though they can use their knowledge to create a new and different version functionally similar. That Apple says they can just make a software change shows they have the raw data from their development and can create an entirely new algorithm. Misamo can’t ‘trade secret’ two different ‘ways to skin a cat’, just one.

Apple will pay for something that is uniquely suited, truly unduplicatable, or saves them a lot of work. We know they have tried to make their own communication chip and freely admit the can’t make an equivalent chip without violating the copyright of Qualcomm, so they license theirs. They saw the Shortcut app that made a programming language for iOS features and they bought it. That they are digging their heels in on this makes me think the genuinely feel that their own unique work does not infringe on the 2019 patent and I tend to think that’s true when Misamo themselves only talks about ‘trade secrets’, not the patent itself.

If its trade secrets then Apple changing their algorithm should make the problem go away. We will see.
 
Some time tomorrow US Customs & Border Protection will rule on Apple's tweak(s) around Masimo's IP. If the changes are accepted, Masimo can forget about the ban being reinstated. Even if USCBP rules the changes aren't enough, Apple has until Monday, January 15th to reply to Masimo's reply. I would imagine the Appeals court would need several days to decide which side has the most compelling argument. And of course, both sides will appeal the Appeals Court decision. This is far from over.

The USITC is a hammer that looks at everything as if it's a nail. Even when initial determinations are ruled not to be nails, the USITC still sees them as nails. I recall cases in the past where patents were ultimately invalidated and they upheld bans for several months causing the ultimate winning side irreparable harm. If Apple's infringement is upheld through all appeals, they will pay dearly. If the patents are invalidated and never reinstated, a ban would cause monetary harm that Apple may not be able to recoup from Masimo. Stay the ban and wait for all appeals on both ends to be exhausted.
 
I personally couldn't care less. Masimo is a publicly-traded company with revenue in the billions. Is the technology from Masimo available in a single easy to use package with multiple other uses, a swiss army knife of wearables? No? Shut up then lmao.
 
All this fighting over a feature that doesn't even work (at least for me—my measurements vary by +/- 10% one minute to the next). Hardly worth it.

Try doing some research on the function. It isn’t, and Apple has noted it, accurate. It is a measurement that relays to trending. It was not designed to be a true medical test result. If it was, the approval process isn’t something Apple really wants to deal with unless they plan on jumping into the med device field.
 
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All that really says is both were working on the tech at the same time and Massimo made the key break threw first and you mix that with Apple pouching key employees from Massimo means Apple can not use the defense they came up with it on their own as Apple own progress was being made by Massimo former employers who would of had in their heads progress that Massimo had made so it not as much as Apple came up with it their own.

That trade secrets part hurts Apple defense.

Massimo knowing Apple was working on it or suspected it meant they might of advanced their plans faster to beat Apple to a completed product as they knew if Apple got it first Apple would sue to snot out of them and then know that the rabid Apple fans would back Apple 100%.

Find it kind of shady/odd that Apple filed their patents under the poached employees names.
 
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Ah yeah so we have the following timeline.
  • Apple makes watch.
  • Masimo tries to launch competing watch which no one even hears about.
  • Apple sues Masimo for patent violation for the watch archetype.
  • Masimo stock and value tanks.
  • Masimo executives switch their business model to patent litigation with an eye on unrealistically large demands on royalties.
  • Masimo sues Apple for a minor and vague technical infringement and gets a sales ban.
  • Lawyers throw monkey dung at each other for months.
  • Consumers are hurt because Apple takes things off the market and/or cripples them.
  • Masimo customers are hurt because all the company's money goes to lawyers rather than their core customers.
Do you know who I feel sorry for here? Casio and Garmin lurking in a shadow in the dark corner wondering when someone will give them some attention.
And Masimo's Apple watch knockoff is called the "W1"....
 
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Don’t get all anxious about Apple not being able to sell its watches. That’s simply NOT going to happen. One way or the other this will be resolved. Apple will either get around the patents involved or they will settle with Masimo. Either way Apple watches are not going anywhere.

I have read a few pundit’s opinions on why Apple is dragging this out. The consensus is that Apple wants to make it as expensive and time consuming to the plaintiffs to send a message to others thinking about bringing suit, that message being “we can make this very painful for you.” I believe a report right here on MacRumors stated that Masimo has spent over $100,000,000.00 so far in this fight. Its profit last year was only $120,000,000.00. Think about that for a minute.

And if Apple winds up licensing the tech from Masimo you can get bet the price of their watches will rise commensurate with that license agreement.

I can find no information on how well or not Masimo’s watches are selling but I suspect they are not all that great. Masimo would love to get a cut of everything Apple watch sale since their main business is pulse oximeters.

Apple watches will remain on sale and you can take that to the bank.
If indeed apple looses this case, which I think they will, then Apple should be made liable for Masimo's 100 million court bill.
 
Your oxygen saturation does not change significantly during exercise unless something is seriously wrong. In that case you might need a true medical device.
Exactly this.

Which is why we take proper kit up mountains to look for early signs of hypoxia / AMS / HACE. Interestingly perhaps you don't always know there's something up until you measure it.
 
Try doing some research on the function. It isn’t, and Apple has noted it, accurate. It is a measurement that relays to trending. It was not designed to be a true medical test result. If it was, the approval process isn’t something Apple really wants to deal with unless they plan on jumping into the med device field.
Maybe it works for some and not for others as well. I am not saying it is medical grade; but one time when I visited the Doc's office, I tested it and it came back with the same number as the office equipment. 🤷‍♂️
 
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Exactly this.

Which is why we take proper kit up mountains to look for early signs of hypoxia / AMS / HACE. Interestingly perhaps you don't always know there's something up until you measure it.
Yeah I don't think I would trust it for high intensity mountain climbing...lol.
 
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Maybe it works for some and not for others as well. I am not saying it is medical grade; but one time when I visited the Doc's office, I tested it and it came back with the same number as the office equipment. 🤷‍♂️

My doctor (NHS UK) uses a no brand one off Amazon. It worries me.
 
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who cares? I’ll just go overseas and buy it. Apple could just pay up, they got a lot of money.
 
And they should keep doing that, instead of acting as a patent troll. They are not even competing in the same market. Apple Watch isn’t stealing any sales from them.
except they aren't acting as a patent troll. Patent troll's only use their portfolio for purposes of litigation, hence why they are formally known as non-practicing entities. The problem is that if Masimo does not assert its patent rights, they lose them. It doesn't matter whether masimo is losing sales, that is not the claimed harm. The claim is for IP theft, the harm is the unauthorized use of the IP.
 
If indeed apple looses this case, which I think they will, then Apple should be made liable for Masimo's 100 million court bill.
American rule means they won't. the only reason some people are able to get attorney's fees is because they are suing under a statute that has fee shifting provisions.
 
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Maybe it works for some and not for others as well. I am not saying it is medical grade; but one time when I visited the Doc's office, I tested it and it came back with the same number as the office equipment. 🤷‍♂️

True. I have played with it and it does seem to work however I have seen more than a few “WTF?” readings. You hit it on the nose that it isn’t medical grade.
 
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