iTMS Canada Dec. 1 [NOW OPEN]

[jiji]

what was the latest time that it could happen today?


Also, I just read at macminute that apple officly stated "We said that we would launch the iTunes Music Store in Canada by the end of November, but we're going to miss this deadline by a bit,"

 

[autopilot]

Also, I just read at macminute that apple officly stated "We said that we would launch the iTunes Music Store in Canada by the end of November, but we're going to miss this deadline by a bit,"

yeah, this was posted in here when that broke a few hours ago.

i posted a wisecrack like "ok everybody, now define *a bit*" but it disappeared...

 

[Hieronymus]

Funny, I had been assuming that this delay was a licensing issue but this issue might have some bite. Is there anyone out there who has some better knowledge than me about the actual legislative requirements on private companies. My understanding was that the Official Languages Act applied to only "federal institutions" but there may be other similar legislation that I don't know about. I could look it up but it'll take me awhile and I thought some other lawyer or law student might have some instant info. Hard-pressed to find a major Canadian website that isn't in English and French though.

IANAL, but I think you're right: the Official Languages Act is all about federal government services/agencies/institutions.

As far as I know, the only way language law can affect the iTMS is through the Quebec Charter of the French Language. As I understand it, that law is the reason major commercial websites in Canada tend to be bilingual: if a company has a physical/legal presence in Quebec, the province's language law can be applied. Otherwise, it's just a question of customer service. (Note that Apple doesn't have a complete French Canadian localization of its online store, just a plain web page of the fine print.)

And forget things like the CRTC and CanCon. By no stretch of the imagination are we talking about broadcasting.

More at: Office québécois de la langue française FAQs (in English).

 

[rjwill246]

 

[jicon]

I'm in Canada, and I am a Fed Gov't employee.

The Gov't is completely hamstringing the store by it's endless Bureaucracy.

Why? The Gov't is very controlling of all media through it's agency called the CRTC (Canadian Radio and Television Commision). Otherwise known as the Culture Police.

One reason the store is being delayed, is that complication exists with a special revenue-generating tax being collected on writable media, like flash memory and CDs/DVDs. It's the CRTC in action.

The CRTC collects the revenue to supposedly reimburse those Canadian Artists whose income is being hurt by illegal downloads. How they decide who gets what, out of that fund, depends obviously on the Artist's friendliness with the Gov't. Get it?

So, if there exists a legal way to download songs, there is no reason for this tax to exist anymore, and it rightfully should be ended. However, those friends of the Gov't are putting up a big fuss about it, because away goes their annuity.

Fact is, these canadian artists haven't had any success in years, and this tax is their gravy train.

There are other problems Apple is having, like how to ensure that French-Canadian artists get special treatment, (according to the CRTC's rules). English language-only and French language-only websites, things like that.

In addition, the CRTC want to show favoritism to home-grown companies, so they restrict the ability of foreign companies to do business.

It's extremely socialistic here, in case that point escaped you. It's so hard to do business here because of Gov't involvement in EVERYTHING CULTURAL.

Therefore, as I said, the problems Apple are having here are political-based, not technically-based.

What do you do in the federal government? Janitor? Army? Secretary? MP?

The CRTC does apply some pretty tough and stifling content rules (30% Canadian content, Canadian, language and culture restrictions for TV and Radio licenses)

However, I've never heard that they are collecting levys for artists. So far as I was ever concerned, this was a different branch. The thing that does concern me, is that the artists apparently never received a dime of the money collected so far.

There are a few issues with owning a business in Canada, but the issue is not a hiring restriction or selling of a certain product. The main culprit is the high tax that businesses (and employees) pay in this country. With the dollar at a .82cents, it was about at parity with the US. Now I've heard that it is comparitively cheaper to manufacture in the states.

So far as artist salaries are concerned:

If you are big in Canada, and not even a blip in the US/UK, you won't be making "great" money comparitively to an artist with equal success in the US.

A friend of mine is the former drummer of Nickelback just before they became huge in the US. The band has money now, but they suffered, living at home, serving coffee at Starbucks, planning tours across Canada till they hit it big south of the border. He estimated that the Hip were probably pulling in less than $100K a year. I wouldn't even want to imagine what lesser known beginners were surviving on.


I think Apple's greed and music label's greed is likely getting in the way with negotiations this time round. I'm sure governmental hurdles have been dealt with. Due to the fighting of whatever negotiating kind though, I'm expecting to see a crippled selection worse off than Napster or Puretracks when they do go live.

 

[reckless_0001]

Hey MudBug... do you know if we are still having a Dec. 1st localization?

 

[dotnina]

Hey MudBug... do you know if we are still having a Dec. 1st localization?

Seeing how it's 3:30 on the left coast and even later elsewhere, my guess is a giant no.

Sorry Canada ... maybe tomorrow?

 

[AdamH]

Bull****. When its suposedly one month out legal has NOTHING to do with it. You announce something, anything dealing with the canadian RIAA =ent should be a god damn done deal at that point. 5 months ago? 7 months ago? a year? Sure. Not one freaking month out.
<SNIP>

Apple is screwing around and I'm not talking intentionally dealying or something. I'm talking about Apple consistantly playing fast and loose with their release sched and basicly teasing the user with a "Oh we'll have it around this time and yanking their chain back. Either set a freaking date and stick to it or don't say a dang word about it.

*claps* Thank you. This is how mature companies act. I work for one, and when we don't deliver the world falls apart (As it should.)

 

[BCwaiting]

Seeing how it's 3:30 on the left coast and even later elsewhere, my guess is a giant no.

Sorry Canada ... maybe tomorrow?

Take a page from the Irish experience... I understand that they are still waiting for their site that was pulled at the last minute when the European iTMS went live... might be longer than tomorrow...

 

[aestival]

Canada's bureaucracy is legendary - one of the worst in the world.

Obviously you've never had the privilege of living in the United States... or just about anywhere else. Trust me, we don't have it so hard in Canada (but please feel free to keep complaining, in case it can get even better!)

 

[AdamH]

Obviously you've never had the privilege of living in the United States... or just about anywhere else. Trust me, we don't have it so hard in Canada (but please feel free to keep complaining, in case it can get even better!)

hehe. I like the way you think Its true that we have it pretty good here, but the comments that have been made re: size of govnt bloat are 100% bang-on. Statistics Canada was, at last count, the most prolific census-gathering organization in the world (Yes, they crunch more numbers than the equivalent in the US). While this is all very interesting, I'd rather that money go to affordable housing or rural ambulances than crunching some neat numbers (and don't start on the different governments/bugets BS... CHANGE THE TRANSFER PAYMENTS! CHANGE THE BUDGETS!)

Just a small (and admittedly unrelated) example... but the point is valid. In that way, we're being completely American - keeping jobs for the sake of keeping jobs. Legislation for the protection of dying industries (like the music industry ans we know it today - read this: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.10/tail.html?pg=1&topic=tail&topic_set=). Silliness! So you can't count corn anymore. Go to school and learn how to cut brocoli instead.

Anyhow, I'll get off the soapbox for today. Here's hoping its here by Dec 6, or else Steve can have his iPod back.

 

[aestival]

How about this for a reason, someone, somewhere in the federal government (or perhaps an overeager lawyer ) decided that the store must be accessible from Quebec and exist in French. The Feds learnt everything from the French about language protection. The French store is the only non english store I could find. I know it's not what most people think the delay would be caused by (think record labels) but nothing would surprise me in this day and age.

Of course the store should be available from Quebec (and any other part of Canada) in French as well as English. Anyone who ever thought otherwise should be dragged kicking and screaming out of the middle of the last century into this one. Besides, like many English Canadians, I'd like the opportunity to buy all Canadian music, not just the stuff which happens to be in my language. Apple is nowhere near ignorant enough to have overlooked language issues.

 

[MattG]

On another note, here in the States, I just bought "The Complete U2." It's going SO SLOW. I'm on a cable connection and it's taking several minutes per song. Usually it downloads a whole album within a few minutes. What's going on Apple?

 

[BCwaiting]

*claps* Thank you. This is how mature companies act. I work for one, and when we don't deliver the world falls apart (As it should.)

At minimum - in the real business world, an explanation is offered when a promised delivery is not made... not "expect to hear from us soon". What is soon? And hear what soon? That they can't make it happen until summer of next year? That it won't happen at all? This is a cryptic statement that could be interpreted a million ways.

Of course if negociations are still ongoing with the industry then we have to respect confidentiality during this process. But at minimum, give the consumer something like "... as a result of this delay, we do not envision a launch before [insert date here]. - not "soon"...

 

[atraininc]

quite ironic don't you think

I was surfing around the US iTMS and found under staff holiday favorites

The Great White North
Bob & Doug McKenzie Album

<sarcastic> That has to be the funniest thing I've seen all day. I tried to buy it but they said something about not available in your country

A sick joke on Apple's part if you ask me!

 

[aestival]

Here's hoping its here by Dec 6, or else Steve can have his iPod back.

My strategy is (and unfortunately continues to be) that I'll replace my three year old iPod immediately when they have colour screens (check!), more than 40GB (check!) and iTMS is available in Canada... well, two out of three means a few more months with my old 10GB iPod, but I think I'll survive... the battery still lasts 12-15 hours of play time routinely though it does tend to crash after recharging and it's as non-resistant to cold as ever

 

[BCwaiting]

My strategy is (and unfortunately continues to be) that I'll replace my three year old iPod immediately when they have colour screens (check!), more than 40GB (check!) and iTMS is available in Canada... well, two out of three means a few more months with my old 10GB iPod, but I think I'll survive... the battery still lasts 12-15 hours of play time routinely though it does tend to crash after recharging and it's as non-resistant to cold as ever

That's how you do it. Remember the consumer's best way of sending a message to any company, even large ones, is with their wallets.

 

[celebi23]

you guys know of an upcoming conference dec. 8th-9th, i think it's called music 2.0. Hmm, apple's speaking there and the conference is about music. So, my guess is either dec. 8th or 9th

 

[appleguy]

So what happens if itunes comes to Australia/New Zealand before Canada?
Does that mean all the people that are waiting for iTMS canada to move to the saftey of Canada come down under? Even Canadians you may want to move

Whats the time over there??

 

[Amooo]

MacRumors 0/3 on release dates.

 

[the_mole1314]

So what happens if itunes comes to Australia/New Zealand before Canada?
Does that mean all the people that are waiting for iTMS canada to move to the saftey of Canada come down under? Even Canadians you may want to move

Whats the time over there??

We would love too, but your toilets swirl in the opposite direction....

 

[The Insider]

i just checked and the Canadian Version of the store will come up today (Dec 1, PST). So I guess tomorrow for some of those back East.

 

[Amooo]

i just checked and the Canadian Version of the store will come up today (Dec 1, PST). So I guess tomorrow for some of those back East.

dec 1, pst?

meaning? 11:59 pst on dec 1 or..?

 

[MattG]

i just checked and the Canadian Version of the store will come up today (Dec 1, PST). So I guess tomorrow for some of those back East.

You just checked where??

 

[mike301]

iTMS in French

IANAL, but I think you're right: the Official Languages Act is all about federal government services/agencies/institutions.

As far as I know, the only way language law can affect the iTMS is through the Quebec Charter of the French Language. As I understand it, that law is the reason major commercial websites in Canada tend to be bilingual: if a company has a physical/legal presence in Quebec, the province's language law can be applied. Otherwise, it's just a question of customer service. (Note that Apple doesn't have a complete French Canadian localization of its online store, just a plain web page of the fine print.)

I can second this... there is even case law supporting an interpretation of the Charter of the French Language as being applicable to foreign websites offering products for sale in Québec, such as the iTMS, for example.

But in all honestly, I'm certain the site was translated months ago. Even if it wasn't and Apple somehow just realized they had to do so, they could probably have taken a calculated risk and opened the site in English only with approriate disclaimers, in French, indicating that a French version was on the way. I don't think an English-only site would be reason for a last-minute no-go like what happened here.