it's 2007 all over again with the X

[inscrewtable]

I think the X will be the future of the iPhone.

Definitely, I think you'll find next year there are two sizes of X phone and there will be no new iterations of the iPhone 8 that is finished it will gradually fade away as it gets older and older till it falls off the store, meanwhile the 4" SE will continue being updated occasionally with the same form and Touch ID. I'm expecting it to be updated to an A11 in 2019 by which time the two X models will be on their third iteration. that's my speculation anyway.
[doublepost=1508714068][/doublepost]

This is completely wrong. The opposite is true. Many years ago Steve Jobs said in an interview:

"The things which you see around you are made by people who are not smarter than you!"

Recently I sold my iPhone SE and bought a new (!) still factory-sealed (!) iPhone 4s with iOS 5 on ebay. It is a blessing to have the great classic iOS back. And the great iPhone 4s which has the perfect size for me. I will never use iOS 7/8/9/10/11. Apple destroyed everything which Steve Jobs had built up. This isn´t just wrong, it is a crime! When I cannot find more iPhones with iOS 5/6 in the future, I will switch to Android. Or reactivate my Nokia 3210 from 1999, which still works perfectly!

As a phone, the 4s is fine, if you want it to be more useful then it's useless as it cannot run modern apps. I just flipped my 4s and iPodTouch6gen into a single 64gb SE. I had to use the Touch to run the apps I needed then carry a phone to make phone calls. Now I eliminate 2 items I don't need to carry around, the other one being my wallet with my debit card because near field pay wave machines are everywhere in Australia. Joy.

 

[Ghost31]

This is completely wrong. The opposite is true. Many years ago Steve Jobs said in an interview:

"The things which you see around you are made by people who are not smarter than you!"

Recently I sold my iPhone SE and bought a new (!) still factory-sealed (!) iPhone 4s with iOS 5 on ebay. It is a blessing to have the great classic iOS back. And the great iPhone 4s which has the perfect size for me. I will never use iOS 7/8/9/10/11. Apple destroyed everything which Steve Jobs had built up. This isn´t just wrong, it is a crime! When I cannot find more iPhones with iOS 5/6 in the future, I will switch to Android. Or reactivate my Nokia 3210 from 1999, which still works perfectly!

Apple is without a doubt more visionary than most users on this forum. That Steve Jobs quote has no place in this conversation as what he meant was that “you can go out into the world and do amazing things too”. It was meant to be inspiring. Not “hey. Apple isn’t smart”. I have never seen that quote used in the way you used it before. There’s always a first

Apple says they’ve been working on this phone for 5 years. So in that 5 years they’ve done more consumer research, sat with ideas and gotten used to using the phone on a daily basis (more than people here who have never used it) and done a ton a product testing.

So how exactly ISNT Apple more educated on this than us?

 

[44267547]

Apple is without a doubt more visionary than most users on this forum. That Steve Jobs quote has no place in this conversation as what he meant was that “you can go out into the world and do amazing things too”. It was meant to be inspiring. Not “hey. Apple isn’t smart”. I have never seen that quote used in the way you used it before. There’s always a first

Apple says they’ve been working on this phone for 5 years. So in that 5 years they’ve done more consumer research, sat with ideas and gotten used to using the phone on a daily basis (more than people here who have never used it) and done a ton a product testing.

So how exactly ISNT Apple more educated on this than us?

I don't disagree, but the one thing that I find the most profound on an Apple related website, is how many people try to speak for Steve Jobs and act like they understand his mindset. He was one of most unpredictable geniuses in the tech industry and in the world, and then you have so many people take his quotes out of context and then formulate it with their own narrative.

 

[yansun]

Did you even read the link that I posted? It was already stated that touch ID was not A timely issue, it was that they were working on it and the abandoned it when Face ID became a reality. So there is no evidence that they 'failed' with touch ID, given the fact Apple didn't complete the project with touch ID when Face ID was the initial goal.

Also, as secretive as Apple is, why would they even openly talk about touch ID in the first place? Do you really think Craig Federighi would lie About Touch ID, when He could have simply ignored the false claims about Touch ID under the display and discussed Face ID all together.

Touch ID was always Plan B for Apple and Face ID was the primary. The idea that Face ID was some rush job is completely false.

Yes I did read the link you posted, but apparently you do not get what I wanted to say. Maybe you should work a bit more on your reading comprehension.
I never claimed that Face ID is the result of the failure of Apple to implement Touch ID into the screen in time/that Touch ID was a timely issue, only that I don't believe Apple would admit it openly if that would have been the case, and that you should not believe everything a company is telling you. I also never claimed Face ID was "some rush job", the opposite, I said of course Apple was not only working on Face ID since yesterday. So why you are bringing this up in the reply to my post?

 

[44267547]

Yes I did read the link you posted, but apparently you do not get what I wanted to say. Maybe you should work a bit more on your reading comprehension.
I never claimed that Face ID is the result of the failure of Apple to implement Touch ID into the screen in time, only that I don't believe Apple would admit it openly if that would have been the case, and that you should not believe everything a company is telling you.

Please, if you want to have an actual discussion, leave the ad hominem aside.

However, you never answered any of the questions I asked you in my previous post, which would also be helpful for discussion. Again I ask you, do you think Craig Federighi would really lie about something that he does not willingly have to discuss in the first place? And the second question I ask you, why would Apple even discuss touch ID in the first place? Do they owe an explanation to anyone based on what?

I Have no reason to believe that Federighi would lie openly about something that he's not obligated to discuss to anyone at all, especially being how confidential Apple is. So it's not a matter of "Marketing" and you're using that term out of context in this specific situation.

Furthermore, you originally stated:

but in the case they weren't able to implement Touch ID properly into the display in time

Which is completely false. It was never a "timely" issue for Apple, which you assumed it was. The Article I linked clearly indicates that and Because it was never there goal to fully use touch ID as a first priority, which was abandoned regardless in place of Face ID.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Definitely, I think you'll find next year there are two sizes of X phone and there will be no new iterations of the iPhone 8 that is finished it will gradually fade away as it gets older and older till it falls off the store, meanwhile the 4" SE will continue being updated occasionally with the same form and Touch ID. I'm expecting it to be updated to an A11 in 2019 by which time the two X models will be on their third iteration. that's my speculation anyway.

I’m sure Apple will drop the form of the iPhone 6-8 pretty soon but they need to find a way of making an option at the price point of the 8 going forward. It’s all fine saying it’s going to disappear but the biggest obstacle stopping the X being the mainstream iPhone is it’s high price. If Apple try and force this high price as the only new option going forward then they’ll alienate a huge percentage of their user base and that is a rather dangerous strategy.

I know some of those buying the X this year won’t give a toss about this and will say things like;

‘Nobody forces you to buy the iPhone’
‘I can afford it so everybody else can’

But, back in the real world we have a market covering many demographics and the iPhone is widely used because up until now it’s been under £1k and generously subsidised on carriers. I’m sure Apple aren’t ignorant to this even if Tim Cook seemed oblivious to the extra premium the X is being given in Europe and elsewhere. I’m hoping their marketeers are more in touch than him!

 

[IGotOne]

Haha remember, it’s a phone. Deep breaths. Also, the same people that made Touch ID also made Face ID. The biometric security feature you know and love, has been deemed inferior by the exact same people that created it. That should give you all you need to know. Or not. You can also just be a hard no to Face ID and you will never buy an iPhone after the 8. That’s cool too.

Hahaha remember, Face ID is the secondary "feature" Apple is touting for the X. Second only to the OLED screen. It's worth asking "what makes it soooo much better than Touch ID?". Heck: "what makes it even incrementally better?"

Deep breaths.

People have been quick to point out (including me) that it will likely work fine. But people have also been quick to point out situations where it may actually be worse, and no one has explained a scenario where it is better.

I've never once indicated I thought Face ID was a "hard no", I just find the hype surrounding it to be outright hilarious. Apple has such devoted fanboys (myself included, so calm down...) that they have managed to turn an objective failure into the second biggest "feature" of their anniversary, flagship, had to skip a model number because it's so great, iPhone.

And when you ask the fanboys that are so excited over Face ID WHY they are so excited over Face ID, it always seems to amount to: Touch ID was hopelessly broken (they can't explain why, of course) or Face ID is "more secure" (again, no rationale why that would be, it just stems from a random number that Apple threw out during the keynote...).

So yeah, it'll work, and it'll sell anyway. But eventually (not soon, but eventually) even the most fervent fanboys will see what Apple is doing with this type of "innovation". No one was asking for an alternative to Touch ID. Literally, check out the history here on MR (filled to the brim with the hardest core Apple fanboys, and always the first ones to complain about anything no matter how small (see: "scuffgate")). Face ID is the consolation prize of Apple's failure to integrate Touch ID under the screen. It'll be fine, it'll work fine (probably), and it'll sell fine... but it is NOT a "feature". And that's why it's so amazing that people actually believe it is.

Just don't ask them to explain why... lol

 

[Diorama]

TouchID under the screen? You would have to look at the screen to use it.
If you are looking at the screen...

 

[MEJHarrison]

No one was asking for an alternative to Touch ID.

And a few years back, no one was asking for Touch ID.

If products were designed solely on what customers ask for, we'd have one very ugly beast that probably wouldn't be anywhere near as useful as what we have today.

 

[Oliveira46]

I have a Note 8 and use it all the time. It's pretty fast for me. Yes, you have to line up your eyes because its called an "iris" scanner that's scanning a pretty small surface on your eyeballs. It's a chore while sitting? Sure if you don't want to use your hands. How is Face ID any different if you are in a sitting position. You would still have to position your face in front of the phone and wouldn't you have to stay still for Face ID to scan your face for the truedepth camera to measure every inch your face? I mean it would be pretty hard while on the move to get the exact 3D measurement of a face if it's constantly moving. I could also unlock my phone with a verbal password. I love my Touch ID on my 6S+ but if face ID can be fooled by twins, no thanks.

I don't experience slow unlocks in the dark either.

Face ID you don't have to line up anything and it's MUCH quicker, From the demos it looks seamless like it wasn't even locked. With iris scanner you are deliberately lining up.

As displayed in the ad, and as Craig said, you don't have to line up with the phone, it works at an angle with Face ID, no need to line up you face like you have with iris scanner.

Mate... get off that idea that iris-scanner ( like it is at the moment) is as convenient as face-iD... It isn't... just stop

Touch-ID can be fooled too, so whats your point? do you have a twin? have you tested it?

 

[mib1800]

Face ID you don't have to line up anything and it's MUCH quicker, From the demos it looks seamless like it wasn't even locked. With iris scanner you are deliberately lining up.

As displayed in the ad, and as Craig said, you don't have to line up with the phone, it works at an angle with Face ID, no need to line up you face like you have with iris scanner.

Mate... get off that idea that iris-scanner ( like it is at the moment) is as convenient as face-iD... It isn't... just stop

Touch-ID can be fooled too, so whats your point? do you have a twin? have you tested it?

When we say "line up" means enough of your face to be visible to camera. I doubt it would work if only side of your face/ear/jaw is visible. There are many situations when your face is not "line up".

Also, since faceID is using infra red and not laser, certain lighting conditions can cause false negatives.

 

[Diorama]

Also, since faceID is using infra red and not laser, certain lighting conditions can cause false negatives.

Yeah and since it’s stainless steel not aluminium it might get stuck on a giant magnet in a cartoon.

 

[flat five]

Yeah and since it’s stainless steel not aluminium it might get stuck on a giant magnet in a cartoon.

a little bit of early day trivia 🙂

stainless steel is not magnetic.

(well, it is on certain scientific levels.. but to a much much less degree than steel.. so much less that it's generally considered a non-magnetic material)

 

[Oliveira46]

I know that people will say "Android devices had facial recognition first" but not like this they don't, Face ID will probably be just like Touch ID was, it will be a revolutionary feature that people are complaining about now (just like they did with Touch ID) but when people actually get a chance to use it they will soon change their minds. Lets not forget Apple never put the first fingerprint scanner in a phone, BUT they did make the best one! after the iPhone X is out and people are using Face ID (myself included i'm looking forward to it 🙂) other companies will be rushing to copy that feature.

People that say that Android did Face Recognition first are the one that would say that the the first icecream van that arrived with all melted icecream was the first ice-cream van. It's flawed, doesn't count. Android "face-id" you can print a picture or just point a tablet at it and it unlocks. It's so unsecure that it can't replace the fingerprint scanner, can't make payments with it...

It's just a [yet another] fancy feature to say "i did it first"... Screw if it's convenient at all, it's all about the bragging rights... like the "more cores", "more megapixels", "more ram"... Fooling the consumer...
[doublepost=1508852372][/doublepost]

Have you even used any of the Galaxy phones with a curves display? It has its purposes. One of them is edge lighting. You can have the phone face down for privacy and depending on the notification, the curved edges will light up with a chosen color so it allows the owner who the notification is from. The curved edge can also be used for a sports score ticker instead of using the whole screan. Those are just a couple of uses.

Nobody uses that edge light... Who wants to put his phone face down when you can put face up and don't scratch your screen? There's an LED Dot on top of the screen for that, and that one you can view at EVERY angle, that gimick edge lighting you can only see if you look at the phone from the side...

That's Samsung trying to throw sand at consumer's eyes, trying to justify a design choice with functional feature.

The score bar can be done in a flat screen and is just as usefull

I like curved screens, I like the looks, I like good looking phones, I have one in my Blackberry Priv. But don't claim any functionality advantage because it doesn't have any

 

[sumsingwong]

People that say that Android did Face Recognition first are the one that would say that the the first icecream van that arrived with all melted icecream was the first ice-cream van. It's flawed, doesn't count. Android "face-id" you can print a picture or just point a tablet at it and it unlocks. It's so unsecure that it can't replace the fingerprint scanner, can't make payments with it...

It's just a [yet another] fancy feature to say "i did it first"... Screw if it's convenient at all, it's all about the bragging rights... like the "more cores", "more megapixels", "more ram"... Fooling the consumer...
[doublepost=1508852372][/doublepost]

Nobody uses that edge light... Who wants to put his phone face down when you can put face up and don't scratch your screen? There's an LED Dot on top of the screen for that, and that one you can view at EVERY angle, that gimick edge lighting you can only see if you look at the phone from the side...

That's Samsung trying to throw sand at consumer's eyes, trying to justify a design choice with functional feature.

The score bar can be done in a flat screen and is just as usefull

I like curved screens, I like the looks, I like good looking phones, I have one in my Blackberry Priv. But don't claim any functionality advantage because it doesn't have any

That's your opinion. What's seems gimmicky to you may be functional for another. What's gimmicky is ani-moji.

 

[Gathomblipoob]

What's seems gimmicky to you may be functional for another. What's gimmicky is ani-moji.

Which may be functional for others. Your words.


Disclaimer: This is intended as a serious reply. Thank you.

 

[Oliveira46]

That's your opinion. What's seems gimmicky to you may be functional for another. What's gimmicky is ani-moji.

I'll bet you there will be A LOT more people using animoji than Iris scanner. Literally nobody is using samsung iris scanner, its so much more convenient using the fingerprint