it's 2007 all over again with the X

[sumsingwong]

This, a million times this. The S8 actually has a double side bezel. The „official“ pictures (renders) do not show the first, regular black, physical bezel but hide it under the second, additional glare-bezel (that, as a „bonus“, distorts the screen content because of the curvature). This is a really despicable example of form over function, but it wowed the android lemmings and even a number of macrumors folks and mods.

Thank god for Jony Ive and his team; the X design is stunning and honest, just the best possible smartphone design right now, in 2017. Sometime in the future the iPhone will indeed be 100% screen, but we‘re not there yet and I guess it‘ll take quite a bit longer than people hope/expect.

Or maybe those folks and mods you speak of aren't blind iSheep and actually appreciate tech from other manufacturers and not just Apple.

 

[Diorama]

You seem to have pretty sour grapes about the bezels on your Sammy

 

[the future]

Or maybe those folks and mods you speak of aren't blind iSheep and actually appreciate tech from other manufacturers and not just Apple.

I just explained to you why the S8 bezel design is form over function. Maybe you want to try to explain why it isn‘t?

 

[Gathomblipoob]

To clarify the premise of this thread see the video below, and replace 'it doesn't have a keyboard' with 'it's got a ridiculous ugly notch' and you'll get the gist of why I'm saying it's like 2007 all over again.

We have a very capable phone, it will do interwebs, it will do cyber it will do myspace...

Whenever I think of Ballmer, I think of this:

Disclaimer: This is intended as a humorous reply. Thank you.

 

[harvest_close]

i really really hope they manage to control the battery drainage with raise to wake
or any other screen alert that works with FaceID.
i had to shut it off on the 6S+ it just killed the battery.
it needs to somehow be far far better in conserving energy AND handling the FaceID

iphone 8+ raise to wake problem here, I picked up my phone to take to bedside but didnt use it. After 10 minutes or so i had to turn the phone off. iPad display had shut down even though it was running an iBook but not phone. Both devices running same ios build. Raise to wake now disabled.

 

[sumsingwong]

You seem to have pretty sour grapes about the bezels on your Sammy

Not sour grapes. Just my opinion. There are other phones currently out that have higher screen to body ratio.

 

[Gaprofitt]

I think there will always be doubters with Apple, because they are usually the ones to redefine or introduce technology that changes how we use our Phones. Apples is trendsetter and they want to be the ones not necessarily just to release something first, but to do it better.

I couldn't disagree more. Apple's days of being a trendsetter is in the past. They couldn't figure out how to put the fingerprint sensor in the display, hence a new phone with finally what Samsung has had for years, OLED. The tech in the phone is still behind Samsung. I'm not an Android fanboy but there comes a time when you're paying more and getting less. That time has come with IPhone X. Samsung is set to make 4 billion dollars providing the screens for the IPhone X. Both the IPhone 8 and IPhone X are marginal upgrades from the IPhone 7. They make it sound like the world will end at those hokey keynotes if you don't buy the latest and greatest. This year I wised up and bought the better product. The Samsung Galaxy s8 plus.

 

[Gathomblipoob]

They couldn't figure out how to put the fingerprint sensor in the display, hence a new phone with finally what Samsung has had for years, OLED.

That sentence makes no sense. It should read:

They couldn't figure out how to put the fingerprint sensor in the display, hence a new phone with Face ID (makes more sense than the original sentence, anyway).

Apple didn't choose the OLED screen because they couldn't put the Touch ID under the screen. OLED was coming in any case.


Disclaimer: This is intended as a serious reply. Thank you.

 

[44267547]

I couldn't disagree more. Apple's days of being a trendsetter is in the past. They couldn't figure out how to put the fingerprint sensor in the display,

You're disagreeing with something that you don't have any knowledge of and your post is completely inaccurate. , Craig Federighi (VP of Software Engineering) stated that touch ID was experimented with at First under an OLED display, but he stated they never failed to integrate it, they simply abandoned it when a new Face ID was going to become a reality when they had it operating as intended. Federighi stated touch ID under the display was always Plan B, as Face ID was their true intentions.

https://daringfireball.net/2017/09/iphone_x_event_thoughts_and_observations

 

[Dave245]

You're disagreeing with something that you don't have any knowledge your post is completely inaccurate. , Craig Federighi (VP of Software Engineering) stated that touch ID was experimented with at First under an OLED display, but he stated they never failed to integrate it, they simply abandoned it when a new Face ID was going to become a reality when they had it operating as intended. Federighi stated touch ID under the display was always Plan B, as Face ID was their true intentions.

https://daringfireball.net/2017/09/iphone_x_event_thoughts_and_observations

Exactly! i don't understand why people fail to see this, the Face ID technology that Apple developed was something they were working on for multiple years, Face ID was developed to replace Touch ID, but just in case they couldn't get Face ID working how they wanted it to Touch ID under the display was plan B.

I know that people will say "Android devices had facial recognition first" but not like this they don't, Face ID will probably be just like Touch ID was, it will be a revolutionary feature that people are complaining about now (just like they did with Touch ID) but when people actually get a chance to use it they will soon change their minds. Lets not forget Apple never put the first fingerprint scanner in a phone, BUT they did make the best one! after the iPhone X is out and people are using Face ID (myself included i'm looking forward to it 🙂) other companies will be rushing to copy that feature.

 

[iSayBoourns]

Exactly! i don't understand why people fail to see this, the Face ID technology that Apple developed was something they were working on for multiple years, Face ID was developed to replace Touch ID, but just in case they couldn't get Face ID working how they wanted it to Touch ID under the display was plan B.

I know that people will say "Android devices had facial recognition first" but not like this they don't, Face ID will probably be just like Touch ID was, it will be a revolutionary feature that people are complaining about now (just like they did with Touch ID) but when people actually get a chance to use it they will soon change their minds. Lets not forget Apple never put the first fingerprint scanner in a phone, BUT they did make the best one! after the iPhone X is out and people are using Face ID (myself included i'm looking forward to it 🙂) other companies will be rushing to copy that feature.

It’s already rumoured the s9/s9+ will incorporate some form of 3D Face ID.

 

[inscrewtable]

...but just in case they couldn't get Face ID working how they wanted it to Touch ID under the display was plan B.

By saying that you are just repeating someone else's speculation. Just because someone makes something up and says it doesn't make it a fact. There's no way that they were not going to get Face ID working, the only question was would they be able to getting working in time. Plan B, is what is known as iPhone 8
[doublepost=1508661717][/doublepost]

It’s already rumoured the s9/s9+ will incorporate some form of 3D Face ID.

My guess is that Apple will continue to produce the SE because a 4" phone is nice and a lot of people like that, but without face ID, they'll just upgrade the processor to A11 prolly in 2019. But I'm guessing that next cycle the iPhone 6 to 8 style is going to be gone for good and there'll be two sizes of X or whatever they call it.

 

[Dave245]

By saying that you are just repeating someone else's speculation. Just because someone makes something up and says it doesn't make it a fact. There's no way that they were not going to get Face ID working, the only question was would they be able to getting working in time. Plan B, is what is known as iPhone 8

Actually no i'm not, Craig Federighi said this in an interview with John Gruber, Face ID was always the main plan, there still had to be a back up plan and that was under the screen finger print. This happens every time Apple remove something, people complain about it and then when they actually use it they change their minds and come to love it, it happened with Touch ID and it will happen with Face ID, i don't see the issue.
[doublepost=1508663597][/doublepost]

It’s already rumoured the s9/s9+ will incorporate some form of 3D Face ID.

That doesn't surprise me, the question will be is it as good.

 

[576316]

I think there will always be doubters with Apple, because they are usually the ones to redefine or introduce technology that changes how we use our Phones. Apples is trendsetter and they want to be the ones not necessarily just to release something first, but to do it better.

But...they're not doing it better than everyone else, in this case. It's not hard to see that.

 

[44267547]

But...they're not doing it better than everyone else, in this case. It's not hard to see that.

That's an opinion that's completely subjective based on one's own view. You will never have a definitive answer to what somebody believes somebody's doing better over the other. Especially when it comes to Apple and the transitions they make over the years that not everybody agrees with. In your case, my views differ from yours.

 

[inscrewtable]

Actually no i'm not, Craig Federighi said this in an interview with John Gruber, Face ID was always the main plan...

Link please.
[doublepost=1508667041][/doublepost]

That's an opinion that's completely subjective based on one's own view. You will never have a definitive answer to what somebody believes somebody's doing better over the other.

Well it depends on what you're talking about. The original phone obviously changed the entire Industry, it sent Nokia and Blackberry two of the most respected makers straight to the bottom with lead weight. Of course software was a major part of that.

With the current phone they have done the small bezel/big screen thing in such a way that it's effect will be apparent in a year or two. But the tentpole feature of the iPhone X is definitely Face ID, other people have tried biometric face verification with Iris scanning and 2d face scanning but they don't work very well, Apple has done Face ID so well that apart from a passcode which you always have to have, Face ID is all they have, there's no other backup, unlike Samsung for example who cannot trust their borked 2D face recognition, in fact they themselves say it's just for convenience but not to rely on it, they can't trust their weird Iris scanning, they CAN trust the fingerprint scanner but they have to put it in an annoying place to get it off the front.

I think it's safe to say apple have gone to the next level with the biometric Face ID verification. They have to because if it doesn't work it will be a 20 billion dollar screw up. So that's definitely an example of Apple doing it better.

Look the phone hasn't even been released, when it is and the reviews come in, it will make a finger print scanner on the back of a phone look like a steam operated radio.

 

[MEJHarrison]

Link please.

This is John Gruber. I can't find Craig saying it. But I'm not the one who claimed he did, so I'm fine with that.

http://bgr.com/2017/09/15/iphone-x-face-id-vs-touch-id-original-design/

 

[Dave245]

Link please.

Craig made an appearance on the John Gruber interview, it's a 30 minute audio.
https://daringfireball.net/thetalkshow/2017/09/15/ep-200

Also there are snippets that came out before and after the announcement, some of these are not official so it's your choice whether you believe them or not.

http://bgr.com/2017/07/13/iphone-8-features-3d-facial-recognition/

http://www.techradar.com/news/apples-jony-ive-reveals-iphone-x-was-in-development-for-5-years

Johny Ive has said that Face ID was in development for 5 years, Apple have a roadmap and i think it's clear that Apple have intended to replace Touch ID with Face ID. Touch ID is not needed with Face ID being implemented.

Touch ID under the display was a back up in case Face ID wasn't ready or wouldn't work how they wanted it to (ie being reliable and so on).

 

[sumsingwong]

I just explained to you why the S8 bezel design is form over function. Maybe you want to try to explain why it isn‘t?

Have you even used any of the Galaxy phones with a curves display? It has its purposes. One of them is edge lighting. You can have the phone face down for privacy and depending on the notification, the curved edges will light up with a chosen color so it allows the owner who the notification is from. The curved edge can also be used for a sports score ticker instead of using the whole screan. Those are just a couple of uses.

 

[inscrewtable]

Have you even used any of the Galaxy phones with a curves display? It has its purposes. One of them is edge lighting. You can have the phone face down for privacy and depending on the notification, the curved edges will light up with a chosen color so it allows the owner who the notification is from. The curved edge can also be used for a sports score ticker instead of using the whole screan. Those are just a couple of uses.

Yeah we all understand that, but in the reviews I've read even people that like the phone think it's not very useful, it has a short term impressive look to some but on reflection (no pun intended) it's not very good, and to get that screen they had to put the finger print scanner in the back of the phone. I get you like it, and it's pretty sweet compared to what they were making a few years ago, but there's a reason why LG, Google, Huwai, Xiaomi, Essential an any other Androids with flagship devices I've missed have not copied that idea, not one of them. Because it's not a very good idea. But all that matters is that you like your phone.

Look at the crappy colour of it playing games, the reviewer reckons it's much better than the 8 plus, but it looks to have an overall strong magenta cast. In the description I link to the original video, it's not only got a magenta cast but if you look closely it's missing some nice detail that requires stronger processing, it's better than the pixel that can't even render water properly see here look no puddle of water with reflections... https://s1.postimg.org/5rpc5dw5n3/8plus-vs-_XL2.jpg

[doublepost=1508678021][/doublepost]

Craig made an appearance on the John Gruber interview, it's a 30 minute audio.
https://daringfireball.net/thetalkshow/2017/09/15/ep-200

Also there are snippets that came out before and after the announcement, some of these are not official so it's your choice whether you believe them or not.

http://bgr.com/2017/07/13/iphone-8-features-3d-facial-recognition/

http://www.techradar.com/news/apples-jony-ive-reveals-iphone-x-was-in-development-for-5-years

Johny Ive has said that Face ID was in development for 5 years, Apple have a roadmap and i think it's clear that Apple have intended to replace Touch ID with Face ID. Touch ID is not needed with Face ID being implemented.

Touch ID under the display was a back up in case Face ID wasn't ready or wouldn't work how they wanted it to (ie being reliable and so on).

You said "Craig Federighi said ... there still had to be a back up plan and that was under the screen finger print."

He did not say that.

OK I absolutely do not believe for a minute that there was ever an attempt to put touch ID under the screen, I am aware that sometimes when Ming and bunches of other people repeat the same stuff a lot of times people tend to believe it, but it just sounded like nonsense. In fact it's impossible that it could have been a possibility just 6 months before launch that was just internet click bait. Maybe 4 or 5 years ago they may have considered it, but pretty clearly that idea was dumped at least 3 years ago. The only 'backup' was the iPhone 8, if the X could not be ready this year then they'd just release the 8 and hope that the glass back with wireless charging and super powerful A11 was enough to hold the fort for one more year.

When the X is released it's going to have all the other phone makers scrabbling around in a panic just like what happened to Qualcomm when Apple sprung 64bit on them.

I listened to the entire Gruber episode, thanks for that it was great to hear and Federighi confirmed exactly what I thought about Face ID, I didn't hear any reference at all to having under screen biometrics as a 'back up.

In fact after listening to the interview and then taking what Ive said, it's pretty clear that Apple decided more than three years ago that Touch ID needed to make way for something as secure but far more clever. While Samsung and others were scrabbling around the edges.

People don't seem to comprehend how big this is. When you hear people say 'Samsung had it first', it's like mega facepalm it's so silly that what can you say to that?

 

[yansun]

You're disagreeing with something that you don't have any knowledge of and your post is completely inaccurate. , Craig Federighi (VP of Software Engineering) stated that touch ID was experimented with at First under an OLED display, but he stated they never failed to integrate it, they simply abandoned it when a new Face ID was going to become a reality when they had it operating as intended. Federighi stated touch ID under the display was always Plan B, as Face ID was their true intentions.

https://daringfireball.net/2017/09/iphone_x_event_thoughts_and_observations

For sure they are not only working on Face ID since yesterday, but in the case they weren't able to implement Touch ID properly into the display in time, would they really admit their failure openly? Or wouldn't they maybe instead stating that the implementation of Touch ID wasn't their priority in the first place? I would not believe everything a company tells me for marketing purposes, also if it comes from Apple.

 

[inscrewtable]

...snip...

I don't think you really get how massive face ID is, but you only have to wait a couple of weeks and you'll see.
[doublepost=1508678802][/doublepost]

This is John Gruber. I can't find Craig saying it. But I'm not the one who claimed he did, so I'm fine with that.

http://bgr.com/2017/09/15/iphone-x-face-id-vs-touch-id-original-design/

John Gruber or Ming Kuo, it doesn't matter that's all speculation. Federighi didn't say it because it didn't happen. Wait two more weeks and you'll see why. the Gruber interview with Federighi shows you how confident Apple are and I'm certain that Face ID was always going to be the successor to Touch ID, touch ID under the screen was maybe an early thought but it was never where Apple were headed.

Samsung and others have been caught so flat footed that they didn't even consider any other possibility than to put Touch ID on the back of the phone. It's quite funny when you think about it.

 

[Dave245]

[doublepost=1508678021][/doublepost]You said "Craig Federighi said ... there still had to be a back up plan and that was under the screen finger print."

He did not say that.

OK I absolutely do not believe for a minute that there was ever an attempt to put touch ID under the screen, I am aware that sometimes when Ming and bunches of other people repeat the same stuff a lot of times people tend to believe it, but it just sounded like nonsense. In fact it's impossible that it could have been a possibility just 6 months before launch that was just internet click bait. Maybe 4 or 5 years ago they may have considered it, but pretty clearly that idea was dumped at least 3 years ago. The only 'backup' was the iPhone 8, if the X could not be ready this year then they'd just release the 8 and hope that the glass back with wireless charging and super powerful A11 was enough to hold the fort for one more year.

When the X is released it's going to have all the other phone makers scrabbling around in a panic just like what happened to Qualcomm when Apple sprung 64bit on them.

I listened to the entire Gruber episode, thanks for that it was great to hear and Federighi confirmed exactly what I thought about Face ID, I didn't hear any reference at all to having under screen biometrics as a 'back up.

In fact after listening to the interview and then taking what Ive said, it's pretty clear that Apple decided more than three years ago that Touch ID needed to make way for something as secure but far more clever. While Samsung and others were.

People don't seem to comprehend how big this is. When you hear people say 'Samsung had it first', it's like mega facepalm it's so silly that what can you say to that?

Yea I’ve listened to it back myself, I think I misunderstood it initially that’s my mistake. It sounds like we agree on this anyway, the iPhone X is going to be a great iPhone, I’m excited to pre-order one this Friday (27th) 🙂 I think the X will be the future of the iPhone.

 

[44267547]

For sure they are not only working on Face ID since yesterday, but in the case they weren't able to implement Touch ID properly into the display in time, would they really admit their failure openly? Or wouldn't they maybe instead stating that the implementation of Touch ID wasn't their priority in the first place? I would not believe everything a company tells me for marketing purposes, also if it comes from Apple.

Did you even read the link that I posted? It was already stated that touch ID was not A timely issue, it was that they were working on it and the abandoned it when Face ID became a reality. So there is no evidence that they 'failed' with touch ID, given the fact Apple didn't complete the project with touch ID when Face ID was the initial goal.

Also, as secretive as Apple is, why would they even openly talk about touch ID in the first place? Do you really think Craig Federighi would lie About Touch ID, when He could have simply ignored the false claims about Touch ID under the display and discussed Face ID all together.

Touch ID was always Plan B for Apple and Face ID was the primary. The idea that Face ID was some rush job is completely false.

 

[Havixbeck]

Truth is the people at apple are smarter than us in a lot of ways.

This is completely wrong. The opposite is true. Many years ago Steve Jobs said in an interview:

"The things which you see around you are made by people who are not smarter than you!"

Recently I sold my iPhone SE and bought a new (!) still factory-sealed (!) iPhone 4s with iOS 5 on ebay. It is a blessing to have the great classic iOS back. And the great iPhone 4s which has the perfect size for me. I will never use iOS 7/8/9/10/11. Apple destroyed everything which Steve Jobs had built up. This isn´t just wrong, it is a crime! When I cannot find more iPhones with iOS 5/6 in the future, I will switch to Android. Or reactivate my Nokia 3210 from 1999, which still works perfectly!