iTunes 4.6 Now Available

[g4cubed]

swashbuckler then

My play fine too and It's not piracy I paid for them I just like to be DRM free for playing in ANY AAC capable player and to play under Linux. So i take offence at being called a pirate I am not pirating what i purchased!

I agree with you whole heartedly. If you purchase something, then you should have the right to do what you want with it, ie. backups, using other devises, etc., for personal use.

But when the man with the money says you can't, and you do...

Let's just call it swashbuckling

 

[tiktokfx]

Runeasgar, if you're going to tell people to look up stuff they don't know about, I'd suggest you look up how AirPort Express works, because you still seem to be ignoring the now-often-repeated facts that:

A) the audio jack, while only one jack, supplies either analog or digital signals depending on the type of cable inserted. IE, if you output it to digital, the raw digital signal will come out and there will be absolutely no A/D-D/A conversion involved.

B) There is nothing remotely involved in this process, if using the digital output, that would disqualify it as being "hi-fidelity" as there is absolutely no changes to the raw computer-stored waveforms anywhere in the transmission.

C) I don't think I've ever heard anything as stupid as judging the quality of the D/A converter in the AirPort Express based on "look how small it is, it can't be good."

 

[tiktokfx]

Is this new? Album art with visualisations?

-A.

Nope

 

[voodoofish]

It's more like taking a 16 bit pic and increasing it to 32 bit... (Depth I mean) and will do nothing... Hope to be right..

Exactly, the real number of colours in the picture won't actually increase, just the number of colours saved in the file will. You can process the images or audio to try and improve it, but this is just the same as using an equaliser to try and make audio sound better. If you really want to do this, just do it with Hi-Fi equipment at the AirPort Express base station. This will result in sound quality no different than if you were playing the orginal CD in the Hi-Fi itself. I don't understand where you're coming from.

 

[voodoofish]

I agree with you whole heartedly. If you purchase something, then you should have the right to do what you want with it, ie. backups, using other devises, etc., for personal use.

But when the man with the money says you can't, and you do...

Let's just call it swashbuckling

The record companies will love the AirPort Express; it will provide them with an excuse to decrease the number of burns permitted per track - why do you need to burn a CD to listen to it on your Hi-Fi when you can use an AirPort Express? That car thing Jobs hinted at will strengthen this argument because then you won't need a CD copy of your iTunes files for the car either.

 

[tomf87]

Erm. No. The data sheet says "3.5mm mini-Audio jack for analog or optical digital sound."

It's not hard, guys. It's not a big mystery that y'all have to figure out by piecing together the clues. No secret decoder ring is required.

Just read, you know? Just read.

(The socket, incidentally, does not provide power.)

Edit: If you want to know more, google "miniplug." That's the name for 3.5 mm combo analog/optical audio connectors.

Let me get this straight. I do not see anywhere on Apple's site where they state whether the signal output is digital or analog.

The reason why I ask is because in the connection kit, it includes a cable that goes from 3.5mm to RCA left and right as well as a cable that goes from 3.5mm to optical. Now, from my understanding RCA left and right and powered speakers are analog devices. So something along the line has to do some sort of conversion if that's the case, especially since Apple's site, as you quoted, says it does analog or digital.

Googling for miniplug has a site that says the 3.5mm digital cables are fiber optic. If you were to disassemble a line cord going to a set of powered speakers, it is not fiber optic, so speakers must use an analog signal.

Get that decoder ring out now.

 

[jsw]

Let me get this straight. I do not see anywhere on Apple's site where they state whether the signal output is digital or analog.

....

Get that decoder ring out now.

Gah!!! I'm not sure how anyone can make this more clear. I'll try, but I doubt it will work.

The port supplies BOTH a digital optical signal AND an analog electrical signal. It does NOT supply power. Depending on which cable you plug in, you access either the electrical signal OR the optical one. BOTH are present. If you look at it in the dark, you'll see a light.

 

[michaelrjohnson]

Gah!!! I'm not sure how anyone can make this more clear. I'll try, but I doubt it will work.

The port supplies BOTH a digital optical signal AND an analog electrical signal. It does NOT supply power. Depending on which cable you plug in, you access either the electrical signal OR the optical one. BOTH are present. If you look at it in the dark, you'll see a light.

(i don't mean to offend anyone)

after *READING* the thread before posting, i can appreciate your frustration on this issue. and for a vote of confirmation, that post IS perfectly clear.

(edit for emphasis)

 

[voodoofish]

Let me get this straight. I do not see anywhere on Apple's site where they state whether the signal output is digital or analog.

For those in doubt, please see -


http://www.apple.com/uk/airportexpress/specs.html

Here's the relevant quote in case you missed it -


AirPort Express Base Station Interfaces


10/100BASE-T Ethernet WAN port (RJ-45 connector) for connecting an ADSL or cable modem

3.5mm mini-Audio jack for analogue or optical digital sound

USB port for connecting a USB printer (3)

Apple power adaptor

 

[technocoy]

oh, holy CHRIST!

in the plug receptical there are two little rings that will come into contact with a regular audio miniplug... at the far end of the receptical is a optical end that transfers the digital signal if an optical plug is inserted. Christ people you are making this far to hard. the express, most likely in the same way that the minidisc players do, receives both the digital and analog info (or converts to analog once it's there. but the simple fact here is that you are getting both signal... if you want digital only, send it to the optical input of your sony stereo with nice D/A converters.. many of them have burr-brown. if not just plug it into the composite RCA on any other stereo or the same one. if you are playing converted MP3s and are talking about 1000.00 converters you are wacko anyway. MP3 is a lossy format. if you are talking about streaming uncompressed or very slightly compressed files then use the optical. holy CRAP, i hope this helps, if not i don't know what to do with it. if you need sound coming from a $2000.00 converter, you probably shouldn't be using iTunes for your music playing. and yes you can fit good converters into "something that small" i had a car stereo in the mid-nineties that had four burr-brown converters for the cd player... cost me 1200.00 smackers but that was 9 years ago..

 

[johnpg]

Let me get this straight. I do not see anywhere on Apple's site where they state whether the signal output is digital or analog.

The reason why I ask is because in the connection kit, it includes a cable that goes from 3.5mm to RCA left and right as well as a cable that goes from 3.5mm to optical. Now, from my understanding RCA left and right and powered speakers are analog devices. So something along the line has to do some sort of conversion if that's the case, especially since Apple's site, as you quoted, says it does analog or digital.

Googling for miniplug has a site that says the 3.5mm digital cables are fiber optic. If you were to disassemble a line cord going to a set of powered speakers, it is not fiber optic, so speakers must use an analog signal.

Get that decoder ring out now.

The jack is a hybrid jack. If you plug in an optical cable it will output digital data. If you plug in an analog cable it will do the D/A and output analog. What part of this don't you understand? If you use an optical cable and plug it into your receiver there will be no D/A conversion by ANYTHING except your receiver. The data your receiver receives from the Airport Express is exactly what was sent from iTunes.

John

 

[sockgap]

I'd have to have.. like.. a $1000 - 2000 converter minimum to process an optical digital out.

What are you talking about? Just about any modern surround sound receiver will accept an optical digital signal as an input.

 

[ifjake]

i get the port now. i was thinking that it was an analog output and whatever you plugged into it would convert it back into digital, and that seemed kinda dumb to me. but it all makes sense now. it is very cool.

on another note, since i'm home now my mac doesn't have internet access (i'm slowly chipping away at the wireless router idea for the household), so i've had to download the update disk images and transfer them over to my mac to upgrade. the process works fine, but is this going to do weird things to my Software Update?

 

[spankalee]

Spaz? I'm not spazzing, I've just wanted this technology for a long time and am dissapointed that it is completely antiwi-fi.

1) It's non-digital. I don't even know how they put that on the site. That's a powered-speaker/headphone jack. It probably even has power running over it.
2) Ripping all my cds in apple lossless does not change 1 important thing. When a song is stored digitally, it eventually has to be converted to analog for a speaker to use it. THAT is my concern. The airport express must be doing the converting, and I'm sorry, but that tiny little thing cannot have very good converters. Even if it is recieving an analog signal and directly outputting it to the jack, then you still have your computer doing the converting and at no point do you have the opportunity to create a better analog signal.

The point of the story is, whatever is going on with airport express, your analog signal is derived from a 16-bit 48kHz sample, AT BEST. For anyone who has studio grade loudspeakers or reference monitors, that's noticable. That's VERY noticable. It affects the clarity of your monitors enough to bother you alot if you are used to have a good A/D converter.

I just want to see this technology in a more proprietary format. I want to be able to do the A/D conversion myself, all I want airport express and airtunes to do is send the signal to my speakers. That's it. Right now it's doing conversions as well, and that's a bottleneck.

Ok, you're not spazzing, you're tripping.

1) It IS digital. The plug has both analog and optical, it depends of the cable you use.

2) All speakers are analog, unless you have some new alien digital speaker technology I don't know why you would complain about this. It's true of every low-fi and hi-fi stereo setup. What's the big deal?

AitportExpress is just decoding Apple lossless audio stream and then giving you either the analog or digital signal. Simple. If you want to use your super-duper hi-hi D/A converter prior to going into your supoer-duper hi-fi amp, then use it. If you have those alien technology digital speakers then go digital into them.

Also, QuickTime can support higher sample rates and bit depths than 16/48 so if you've got the high quality files use them.

Just please stop spewing very false information. If you actually knew anything about audio you wouldn't be so confused, so I must assume that you only subscribe to Stereophile or the pictures

 

[voodoofish]

on another note, since i'm home now my mac doesn't have internet access (i'm slowly chipping away at the wireless router idea for the household), so i've had to download the update disk images and transfer them over to my mac to upgrade. the process works fine, but is this going to do weird things to my Software Update?

no, before I've downloaded iTunes as a disk image and installed it because it wasn't showing up in Software Update and it didn't screw anything up

 

[runeasgar]

I don't think a $1000-2000 AirPort Express would have mass market appeal.

I also doubt that the new Hi-Fidelity (SACD, DVD-Audio) formats will replace CDs - I think that is far more likely to be done by digital music on a PC (ie. iPod, iTMS).

I'm not saying this to be argumentative, I'm just being realistic. I know loads of people with iPods and who use compressed music, but the only person I know with a Hi-Fidelity disc is me, who only bought it to see what it was like and won't bother again because it is such a hassle to get onto an iPod.

As far as I'm aware there is no way to rip these Hi-Fidelity discs in the same manner as an Audio CD - I had to do it by ripping the audio track from the DVD-Video section of the disc (which wasn't even encrypted btw). This means it would actually be impossible for Apple to offer a true Hi-Fidelity AirTunes.

O.. k.. how do people manage to respond to what I say without comprehending a word of what I said.

I'm not looking for true hi-fi.. I'm looking for $1250 2.1 hi-fi. That means I have a good A/D converter for listening (not recording) that does NOT have an optical in.

I'm talking CD quality upsampled by my A/D converter. For those of you arguing about upsampling, once again, look it up. Nabbing a 24-bit sample on a 16-bit encoded music file means that you are recovering a better sample of the original encoding, in a sense, a better representation of the 16-bit encoding than if you grabbed it using a 16-bit A/D converter.

I'm not talking about Airport Express having a $1000 - 2000 converter, I'm talking about it putting out the signal in another port that I can connect to a good $200 - 300 A/D converter. Middle ground. Not extreme low, not extreme high. Middle ground.

All I want is the opportunity to convert the signal myself. All I want AirTunes and Airport Express to do is get the signal to my converter wirelessly OR for it to allow me to convert the signal before it reaches the express. Basically like a hi-fi radio.

Anyway, look up upsampling before you argue about it, please read this before you respond, and no, I don't hate apple, I don't hate iTunes, I don't 'hate' anything, all I want is this technology compatible with hi-fi. I don't like hearing artifacts on my speakers. I don't have perfect speakers but they do not sound good with a bad signal. When I get my better speakers, the sound quality degradation from a 16-bit sample from a puny soundcard will be extremely audible and will essentially defeat the purpose of having a good sound system.

 

[voodoofish]

btw, has anyone else noticed how on the picture of the AirPort Extreme it says the ethernet port supports LAN, but in the specs it says it is only a WAN port? Whenever I've tried to plug my ethernet router into my LAN and then my LAN into my AirPort Extreme's LAN port, my Mac complains I need to connect it to my WAN port to access the internet. However, once I do this other computers on the LAN are no longer accessable through the AirPort Extreme base station. The solution is to plug the ethernet modem into the WAN port and the LAN into the LAN port, however it's annoying having to have my internet go through the AirPort before going to the LAN because it means I have to have my AirPort by my modem.


So anyways the point was just to wonder whether AirPort Express will act as a wireless access point for a LAN or not, because if it is only a WAN point it may well not do.

 

[cmoney]

I'm not looking for true hi-fi.. I'm looking for $1250 2.1 hi-fi. That means I have a good A/D converter for listening (not recording) that does NOT have an optical in.

...

All I want is the opportunity to convert the signal myself. All I want AirTunes and Airport Express to do is get the signal to my converter wirelessly OR for it to allow me to convert the signal before it reaches the express. Basically like a hi-fi radio.

Ok, so all you're saying is you want a Coax digital output? Or does your "A/D converter for listening (not recording) that does NOT have an optical in" have some other type of digital input?

 

[tiktokfx]

I mean this sincerely, I don't think I've ever witnessed someone be this oblivious to what people said.

 

[technocoy]

damn!

"I'm not looking for true hi-fi.. I'm looking for $1250 2.1 hi-fi. That means I have a good A/D converter for listening (not recording) that does NOT have an optical in."

you should have just said that in the first place! airTunes is not the thing for you then. but i also don't see anyone doing this, as the market is all moving to digital or optical digital input. unless a specialty group decides to make a wireless transmitter just for the analog market...

good luck with your system.

 

[voodoofish]

I'm not looking for true hi-fi.. I'm looking for $1250 2.1 hi-fi. That means I have a good A/D converter for listening (not recording) that does NOT have an optical in.

So what kinda input does your A/D converter have?

If it doesn't have a digital input, then I don't see how you plan to get super duper quality from it.

If it only has digital-coaxial input, then this is not an issue of quality but of cable compatablitiy; just buy a compatable A/D converter. I would guess you could buy a coaxial digital to optical digital converter - since it is just converting cable type and the digital signal will remain the same, i doubt this would result it loss of quality.

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Is this new? Album art with visualisations?

-A.

It was there in 4.5, I don't know if it was added even earlier...

 

[gwangung]

Nabbing a 24-bit sample on a 16-bit encoded music file means that you are recovering a better sample of the original encoding, in a sense, a better representation of the 16-bit encoding than if you grabbed it using a 16-bit A/D converter.

Ummmm...how can you? IT'S ALREADY BEEN ENCODED--THE ORIGINAL HAS BEEN LOST. You don't get a better sample....you just sample what's already been coded...and you can't recover what's been lost.

I don't think the words you are using mean what you think they do....

 

[tny]

1) All I see on airtunes is a 1/8th out jack. That's it. No optical. Also, I would have to have an exceedingly nice A/D to have an optical port on it (which is practically top of the line for digital).
2) The express unit is not a high quality A/D converter and neither is the soundcard in your computer.
3) The airport express doesn't 'play' anything, it just sends out an analog signal that was derived from a 16-bit 48kHz sample.

My signal goes from my USB port to an m-audio audiophile usb powered A/D converter that outputs an analog signal from either TRS or RCA to my speakers. Tell me how I'm going to do that with AirTunes. Tell me how I'm even going to reproduce that quality on AirTunes, much less in the same way that I'm doing it now.

According to reports, it's not just an analog 1/8 in. jack - it's one of those mixed jacks that has the optical connection running through the center of the jack so you can do either optical or analog from the same jack. I've got the same thing on the back of my old MD player.

 

[windowsblowsass]

I can't already! (Pet peeve alert) I'm about 10 miles away from whatever it is the ethernet line is connected to, other than my computer, of course. And, for high speed, the maximum wire distance is 3 miles.

And dial-up users can do a lot of things that high-speed users can do, as well. Some of my more recent downloads - using 28.8K - include over 160MB of video and 55MB of audio (not music tracks)...both of which certainly took a while, but can be downloaded, for Pete's sake. If dial-up goes out, then so do about 25 million people in the U.S.A. alone that won't have any way to connect to the internet altogether. (Satellite is too expensive, right now, and I don't like the "interference" of latency.)

Wow, already we have dial-up discussions going about iTunes. Man, all the dial-up complaining should be saved for OS X updates, which are about 30 to 50MB.



Nothing new. That's a 4.5 feature.

have you considered upgrading to 56k? i know you cant get broadband but a faster modem will help their pretty chep nowadays